I need to try some .30 cal bullets for 300 AAC....pretty please

[adanymous]

Hey guys. I have been fighting an NOE 311247 bullet in my 300. I can not make it shoot well no matter what I do, I have even swapped stocks on the gun, and swapped off a new leupold mk II for a leupold mk IV, as well as every other normal reloading trick. But unfortunately for me its not working and its the only 30 cal mold I have. I dont wanna switch to jacketed...they cost a bunch and I like to shoot a lot. SO if anyone is feeling nice Id like to try some different weight bullets. I think Id like to try weights from 165 up and preferably with no meplat (this gun will not feed the 311247 reliably) Im terrible at working up loads...so I would need probably close to 100 bullets to figure out how it is gonna work out. I know thata a lot, but honestly, Im really terrible at working up loads. OH! Most important part, its gotta be from a mould I can buy somewhere. Preferably not some unobtanium mold made by a long defunct manufacturer that shoots 1/4 minute groups from my gun at 500yd and makes me offer you my firstborn for it, cause I would...and my wife would be livid. Im shooting subsonic only so PB is perfect for me as far as I know. Unless Im wrong, which is more likely than the alternative in my case.

I would be willing to pay whatever is reasonable for the bullets. Id rather do that than keep buying moulds that arent working for me.

I appreciate it fellas.

[adanymous]

I also have a double ton of 357 brass from my dads collection. He recently passed. I cant possibly use all of it and would be willing to swap if thats your thing. Or the firstborn is an option...shes been mad at me before

[adanymous]

Maybe I shouldve put on some deodorant. Apparently I stink......

[lup]

Is your first born a girl or a boy? :)

Are you looking for heavy or light bullets ?

[alfloyd]

adanymous

I have some Lee 230 grain 30 cal powder coated slugs I can send you.

Pm me and we can work out the details.

Lafaun Floyd

[6622729]

Hey guys. I have been fighting an NOE 311247 bullet in my 300. I can not make it shoot well no matter what I do, I have even swapped stocks on the gun, and swapped off a new leupold mk II for a leupold mk IV, as well as every other normal reloading trick. But unfortunately for me its not working and its the only 30 cal mold I have. I dont wanna switch to jacketed...they cost a bunch and I like to shoot a lot. SO if anyone is feeling nice Id like to try some different weight bullets. I think Id like to try weights from 165 up and preferably with no meplat (this gun will not feed the 311247 reliably) Im terrible at working up loads...so I would need probably close to 100 bullets to figure out how it is gonna work out. I know thata a lot, but honestly, Im really terrible at working up loads. OH! Most important part, its gotta be from a mould I can buy somewhere. Preferably not some unobtanium mold made by a long defunct manufacturer that shoots 1/4 minute groups from my gun at 500yd and makes me offer you my firstborn for it, cause I would...and my wife would be livid. Im shooting subsonic only so PB is perfect for me as far as I know. Unless Im wrong, which is more likely than the alternative in my case.

I would be willing to pay whatever is reasonable for the bullets. Id rather do that than keep buying moulds that arent working for me.

I appreciate it fellas.

You can hit eBay and buy any of several 30 caliber Lee 2 cavity molds for $28 a piece delivered. I know you said that's not what you want to do but since you are having trouble, when you find one that works for you, you will already have the exact mold you need with cavities you already have experience with. I'd try to the Lee 309-230 for subsonic. If that's too long try the Lee 309-200 but I wouldn't go any lighter than that. You said you were looking for bullets from 165gr and over. If you're trying to go subsonic at 165, you're probably going to be frustrated.

[dudel]

How does the gun shoot with factory ammo or jacketed? Seems like you need a baseline first.

I use Hornady 150gr FMJBT. Under $20/100. They shoot great in my Handi 300BO and AR. I personally don't use lead in the AR; but the newish Lee BT mold in 309 (230 gr) does well in the Handi when I do use lead. Not as sexy as an NOE mold but it works for me. I think it was specifically designed for the 300BO.

There is an article in Handloader magazine a few issues back that describes the process of working up a load with less than 10 rounds (which is useful since the trial packs are around 10 rounds).

[Boolit_Head]

I had real good luck with the Lee 312-155-2R this last weekend. Out of my mold they drop about 157 grain and by the time they are powder coated and gas checked they come out at about 160 grain. I was running them anywhere from 1700 to 1900 and they were grouping nicely. Still working on the best load for them but they show promise considering I was using a 7 1/2 inch barreled AR.

[jcren]

Also, post in the bullet swap section here. I only have the lee 230 right now, but it works beautiful in 06.

[Artful]

Have you tried factory ammo in your gun?
What powder are you trying to use in your reloads?
Where is your gas port location on your AR15?
What twist barrel are you using?

Try this link for a 300 blackout specific forum
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141

You can get some coated 203 grain lead here to try
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0772/3953/products/300blk_large.jpg?v=1444422987
http://palmettoprojectiles.com/collections/projectiles/products/300-blackout-projectiles

I mainly use the Ed Harris 155 grn design for my plinking but not subsonic loading using AA5744 or W680.
Ed Harris Designed it for the 7.62x39 SKS & like to feeds slick.

LEE version Lee C312-155-2R
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/464750/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-c312-155-2r-762x39mm-312-diameter-155-grain-2-ogive-radius-gas-check
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/alt1/464/464750.jpg
Ah, they put the 6 cavity on sale for $37.79


NOE makes some nice ones
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_314_155Gr._FN_160_gr_Sketch.J pg
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_311_150Gr._SP_148_gr_Sketch.J pg

I'm going to suggest a few things for you.
Look up powder coating boolits on this forum...
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240500-a-trick-for-tumble-powder-coating and size to .311 after powder coating.

If you want a mold similar to the palmetto
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=2355
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_311-230-FN_(PB)_232_gr_Sketch.Jpg

This is very similar to the Lee mold
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/938614/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl309-230-5r-30-caliber-309-diameter-230-grain-300-aac-blackout-tumble-lube-5-ogive-radius
http://leeprecision.com/images/P/90307.jpg

but without some of the faults that have been reported in the Lee Design.

[adanymous]

Ive never shot factory ammo. That stuff aint cheap! I did try some jackets through it but never got it grouping to my standards but attribute that to trying to do it with a thermal on the gun. And the thermal is 1/2 min adjustments, so not really built for precision. Havent tried it with a normal scope. Im not sure how you would work up a load with 10 rounds. Even if your shooting 2 rd groups you would only get 5 variables tested, and 2 rd groups are kind of useless imo. Even if they are awesome groups, its not enough data to draw conclusions from. Maybe I just dont understand that process.

As mentioned, I think Id have trouble with a lighter weight bullet because Im only shooting subs, and I would have a ton of unused case capacity with the smaller bullet. Ive also only shot this rifle with the suppressor. I wonder if that could be causing me issues.

I know I can buy a cheap lee mold and stuff, but its a time issue. Im pretty pressed for it. So Id really prefer to just get some bullets, load em and group em. Find some that will work and buy a 6 cavity and be done with it. I like reloading like the rest of you, but Im frustrated with this rifle and want to get past it to other projects. Ive been trying to get this gun shooting for probably 5 months.

[adanymous]

Sorry guys, I assumed for some reason that everyone had read my previous post whining about my problems. The rifle is a rem 700 sps 300AAC 1/7 twist. 10.3 gr 4198 under a 311247. CCI small rifle benchrest primers. Converted 223 brass neck turned to .010 3 inch groups at 150 and 200. Would like to get this rifle shooting reasonably well out to 400 for no real reason but that I have about 600yd of range to shoot on and I like to shoot a long way cause its fun.

[adanymous]

That NOE 230 looks awesome. But I wonder if a 17 grain weight drop would have any effect. I just dont know enough about this stuff to make that call. Id like to try something in the 200gr range as that is a pretty substantial difference from the 247.

[adanymous]

I ordered 100 of the palmettos after talking to their guy. Turns out they are right down the road about a 1/2 hr from me. I hope their bullet shoots cause I could trade em out of enough to keep me shooting for a LOOOOONG time

[Tackleberry41]

I have not messed with the 300AAC, friend has one. But since its a bolt gun vs a semi, doubt it would be a whole lot different than what I am doing with a 30-30. I put a 1-8 twist barrel in a single shot, chambered it in 30-30, as I already have everything to load it vs going and buying anything. Since its a bolt gun your not restricted to the load data thats required to cycle a semi auto.

I have been using the NOE 247gr blackout mold. It has given decent enough results. I have never used 4198 in this application. Where your shooting suppressed, you want to use as little powder as you can. I am using S1000, my 30-30 needs 7.1gr of it to get those 247gr to about 970fps. Not used anything lighter in it so far.

But 400yds is probably really asking alot. If you want alot of range, you may have to switch to jacketed for the consistency. Yes its possible to get that sort of consistency and accuracy out of a cast bullet, since you readily admit your bad at working up loads, probably just be a lesson in frustration. Maybe find you a good jacketed load when you want the accuracy and range. And a cast one for plinking/practice/shorter range. I ordered some 225gr match to try in my 30-30. The cast work, its just getting them to do it with every shot.

[berksglh]

I have the Lee 230 grain everyone dislikes. Shoots 1.5" groups at 100yds out of a ruger american. Powdercoated and sized through a .312" lee push thhrough. Going about 1050fps. Only the rear of the bullet touches the sizing die after powdercoating.

Also shoot a lee 170?g mold with DIY aluminum gas checks powder coated. 2" and better at 100 yds, not chronoed. Happy to donate or trade either/both.

As said previously, try factory as a baseline. Not hand loaded factory jacket loose bullets, just go grab a 20 rnd pack of live ammo and see what the gun can do with it.

If it wont shoot factory loads, theres a slim chance any cast load will be any better.

Try some factory, if it groups good, pursue your goal, if not, something isn't right with the gun or your shooting technique.

Dave.

[adanymous]

I have the Lee 230 grain everyone dislikes. Shoots 1.5" groups at 100yds out of a ruger american. Powdercoated and sized through a .312" lee push thhrough. Going about 1050fps. Only the rear of the bullet touches the sizing die after powdercoating.

Also shoot a lee 170?g mold with DIY aluminum gas checks powder coated. 2" and better at 100 yds, not chronoed. Happy to donate or trade either/both.

As said previously, try factory as a baseline. Not hand loaded factory jacket loose bullets, just go grab a 20 rnd pack of live ammo and see what the gun can do with it.

If it wont shoot factory loads, theres a slim chance any cast load will be any better.

Try some factory, if it groups good, pursue your goal, if not, something isn't right with the gun or your shooting technique.

Dave.

Well, I guess I asked for advice so I had best take it. Ill try to come up with some factory ammo and see how that goes. Id love to try either or both of those bullets, especially since were running similar platforms. Lemme know what you want for them If its reasonable I am definitely game. Im starting to wish I had gotten the ruger rifle. But I walked into a sweet deal on this remington, and I talk so much trash on most ruger stuff (never revolvers or 22s but everything else) id have made a hypocrite out of myself.

And my shooting technique is the picture of perfection! LOL

[berksglh]

Id prefer the rem, but the Ruger was cheaper and lighter. Pm me and well get ya some headed to ya

[adanymous]

But 400yds is probably really asking alot. If you want alot of range, you may have to switch to jacketed for the consistency. Yes its possible to get that sort of consistency and accuracy out of a cast bullet, since you readily admit your bad at working up loads, probably just be a lesson in frustration. Maybe find you a good jacketed load when you want the accuracy and range. And a cast one for plinking/practice/shorter range.

I do most of my plinking at 100 plus. The only things I shoot much shorter than that is 22s and handguns. I know Im trying to get a ton of performance out of the bullet and asking a lot out of a low velocity cartridge, but isnt that the whole point of reloading? To tailor the ammo to your exact purpose? And I know jacketed would be better in this case, but at $30-$40 a hundred, and I shoot 50-100 rds each time I go out, couple times a week, that kind of makes a cocaine habit look cheap!

[dudel]

I do most of my plinking at 100 plus. The only things I shoot much shorter than that is 22s and handguns. I know Im trying to get a ton of performance out of the bullet and asking a lot out of a low velocity cartridge, but isnt that the whole point of reloading? To tailor the ammo to your exact purpose? And I know jacketed would be better in this case, but at $30-$40 a hundred, and I shoot 50-100 rds each time I go out, couple times a week, that kind of makes a cocaine habit look cheap!


LOL, no one said this was a cheap hobby. At least if you reload jacketed you still saving tons over the people who buy them 20 at a time! Hornady 150gr FMJBT on sale now at Midway. $21/100 IIRC. Less per item if you buy larger quantity.

[6622729]

I had real good luck with the Lee 312-155-2R this last weekend. Out of my ,old they drop about 157 grain and by the time they are powder coated and gas checked they come out at about 160 grain. I was running them anywhere from 1700 to 1900 and they were grouping nicely. Still working on the best load for them but they show promise considering I was using a 7 1/2 inch barreled AR.

He's looking for a SUBSONIC bullet. I agree though, I have great accuracy, no leading, supersonic with the Lee C312-155-2R copper gas checked and sized to .309 in 16" 300AAC. I'm not even researching other bullets and loads this has been so good right out of the box.

[Jeff Maney]

I had real good luck with the Lee 312-155-2R this last weekend. Out of my ,old they drop about 157 grain and by the time they are powder coated and gas checked they come out at about 160 grain. I was running them anywhere from 1700 to 1900 and they were grouping nicely. Still working on the best load for them but they show promise considering I was using a 7 1/2 inch barreled AR.
I also have had excellent results with the Lee 312-155 mold cast from BHN 13-14 alloy, GC and Blue Angle lube. 1,902 FPS & perfect function using a H2 buffer. I am shooting a DPMS 16" carbine.
Jeff

[Artful]

Ive never shot factory ammo. That stuff aint cheap! I did try some jackets through it but never got it grouping to my standards but attribute that to trying to do it with a thermal on the gun. And the thermal is 1/2 min adjustments, so not really built for precision. Havent tried it with a normal scope. ...

Ive been trying to get this gun shooting for probably 5 months.

Sorry guys, I assumed for some reason that everyone had read my previous post whining about my problems. The rifle is a rem 700 sps 300AAC 1/7 twist. 10.3 gr 4198 under a 311247. CCI small rifle benchrest primers. Converted 223 brass neck turned to .010 3 inch groups at 150 and 200. Would like to get this rifle shooting reasonably well out to 400 for no real reason but that I have about 600yd of range to shoot on and I like to shoot a long way cause its fun.

Wow, first sounds like a nice set up in some regards. But if you have never gotten good groups with it something needs to be fixed (sights, bedding, crown, ???). Go to the link I posted previously and you will find specific loads that people are using in your chambering with which jacketed bullets loaded specific overall lengths.
What accuracy standards are you trying to achieve with this rifle to be able to shoot 400 yards subsonic. (rainbow trajectory and NOT much energy left to do much besides paper punch)
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd136/jblomenberg16/300BLKtrajectory_2moa.png (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/jblomenberg16/media/300BLKtrajectory_2moa.png.html)

I'd wonder about the "good" deal in this case is the previous owner available to ask about his trials with the rifle?

[adanymous]

Artful,

I got the rifle as a trade in, it appeared unfired and was still boxed with tags. Im not saying it couldnt be a rifle problem though. Most manufacturers are turning out **** these days. Before this came along I was gonna rebarrel a savage 110 for the task...but then I fell into this gun. Honestly, I know its a crazy lob out that far. But its a hoot to shoot that far. I shoot my bolt action mossberg 22 over 300 sometimes on the prairie dog towns, with subsonics. And I hit a bunch of dogs doing it (not all of em). Its just fun to try. If I could hit beer cans at 400 Id be super happy. Honestly I know it is a very impractical gun, and darn near useless for anything with subs unless you head shoot something. But if Im casting I shoot for .03 cents a round. Recoil is pleasant, no ear pro required and I can shoot on the power lines behind my house without anybody knowing Im there. Who wouldnt want to shoot it. And why would anybody want to take 50yd chipshots all day. Its much more fun trying to blow up a can of orange crush at 4 or 5 or 800 yd. At least in my opinion. If you like to shoot close, im not dogging you, have fun doing it!. I just dont get too much entertainment from it unless its with a pistol or at something tasty.

Bedding shouldnt be an issue, it was in a junk hogue stock but I swapped it out for the new magpul hunter. Which seems like a solid piece. And its FF. I dont have a torque wrench that measures inch pounds though. Hope thats not an issue.

Honestly I think its a bullet problem. If the bullets I got coming wont group.....Ill cry, but then Ill call remington and see what they will do. If they wont do anything Ill rebarrel it with a shillen or something. Its not that spendy to do.

[adanymous]

Also, your chart seems a bit off to my data. I didnt put a ruler up or anything, but from 100-200 I have about 18 inches of drop, about 8 min on my elevation turret (without looking at my dope book)

[Artful]

I agree that magpul stock seems to be the bomb - I'm saving up for on for my 700V
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Payson%20June%2011/0611111403c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Payson%20June%2011/0611111403c.jpg.html)
but I was able to stiffen up my factory stock so that it actually worked for 1000 yd
shooting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Maricopa%20Shoots/P1040281.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Maricopa%20Shoots/P1040281.jpg.html)
look to the end of the road :holysheep
looks closer thru the scope.

If I were you, I'd take the can off - put on a good proven optic and start with a couple boxes of factory in 125 and 200 grain weights. If you get good groups then put the can on and try again.

If you still have good groups then ammo that your making needs work and I'd start off
with jacketed and then see what it does with cast (don't forget to clean between)

[Digital Dan]

Honestly I think its a bullet problem. If the bullets I got coming wont group.....Ill cry, but then Ill call remington and see what they will do. If they wont do anything Ill rebarrel it with a shillen or something. Its not that spendy to do.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here

It's more "spendy" than trying a different mould. If you're getting 1.5 MOA at 200 yards you don't have much of a bullet problem. If you want to try a different bullet you have a number of valid suggestions. Here's another: Send Steve Brooks $180.00 and ask him for a .30 Sneezer mould.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg.html)

Be sure to tell him what alloy you want to use.

[adanymous]

You have an amazing range Artful. Must be in super south AZ. Ive never seen a saguaro in person, always wanted to. I love that far target, I cant quite get that far. If I wanna push my luck I can gt 850 here, but Id have to have my feet on a busy 2 lane if Im proned out.

While out west shooting prairie dogs we got to messing around one time. I was able to shoot a 5 gal homer bucket 6 or 7 times at 2075 with a 308 (savage 110 BA bone stock with a mk IV 4.5-14). That sounds amazing til I say I probably spent 50 rounds to do it. It was probably 100 or so feet below me and I had most of the elevation cranked out of my scope. Half the windage and was shooting a few dots into the wind to get it done. But once I was on it, I was on it. Unless the wind changed of course. I have a little leupold range finder that is supposed to be good to 1000 ("good") I had to range that yardage in 4 increments and add them up.

[adanymous]

Art, That thing you have on your bench that goes to the toe of your stock, those things are great. If you get a magpul stock they make one of those that is better than great. It folds, has a quick adjust button so you can go a long way fast. And they turn as yours does for fine adjustment. I think they cost about $100. Like I said...better than great.

[adanymous]

It's more "spendy" than trying a different mould. If you're getting 1.5 MOA at 200 yards you don't have much of a bullet problem. . Those are nice bullets dan, you should absolutely send those to me! Love your sig line too. Ive been on the forums since 2014. I guess that still qualifies me as new...ish.
My re barreling statement was meant to be a last ditch effort to make this gun work. I have several lots of bullets en route Im gonna try. It should give me enough variation to see if my bullet is the issue.
And if I were shooting 1.5 MOA regularly at 400, I wouldnt be super happy about it but I could probably deal with it or find a way to shine it up some. But Im mostly shooting 1.5-2 MOA at 200 which is pretty awful. Especially for modern rifles. Any modern rifle should be sub MOA at 200 without any problem. ESPECIALLY a rem 700, supposedly the gold standard of accuracy. This is my first one and Im starting to doubt all the hype. Honestly, I think the issue may be bullet concentricity due to something stupid that I am doing. Im trying to cast a really long bullet with no real experience casting anything but muzzleloader balls, sinkers, and pistol bullets. The guy at NOE has such good reviews and his product looks AMAZING, so I doubt it has anything to do with him. I think the whole thing is my inability to make a good 311247. That or my rifle hates the length.

[BK7saum]

I agree that sub MOA at 200 should be easy for a modern rifle (with jacketed loads). I think you may be asking too much out of those cast boolits. The guys I've read that get that kind of accuracy are weighing there boolits into lots and having very strict boolit QC, low runout, etc. I'd be tickled to get 2 moa or less at 200. I am shooting a 300 whisper on a 700 action. Super sonic jacketed shoot about 1/3 to 1/4 moa at 100yds. Cast are about 1-1.25 MOA. I don't shoot groups at extended ranges typically so can't compare those numbers.

Hope you get the accuracy you are looking for.

Brad

[Digital Dan]

I think the whole thing is my inability to make a good 311247.

Then why not find out if that's the problem. First thing you need to do when you're in a hole is quit diggin'.

WHAT ALLOY ARE YOU USING?

WHAT IS THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION OF THE BULLETS YOU'RE SHOOTING?

WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CAN'T MAKE GOOD BULLETS?

WHY DO YOU THINK YOUR WORKUP ON LOADS SUCKS?

[adanymous]

I agree that sub MOA at 200 should be easy for a modern rifle (with jacketed loads). I think you may be asking too much out of those cast boolits. The guys I've read that get that kind of accuracy are weighing there boolits into lots and having very strict boolit QC, low runout, etc. I'd be tickled to get 2 moa or less at 200. I am shooting a 300 whisper on a 700 action. Super sonic jacketed shoot about 1/3 to 1/4 moa at 100yds. Cast are about 1-1.25 MOA. I don't shoot groups at extended ranges typically so can't compare those numbers.

Hope you get the accuracy you are looking for.

Brad

you know, you may be right. My wife says Im a pita just to be a pita. Which may be why im trying to get cast to shoot this good.

[adanymous]

Dan,
Im not sure what alloy Im shooting. But its hard enough to not deform from a dirt bank when recovered. Its range scrap with some tin added. I used to have some nice coww ingots but they were misplaced when the AF moved us last summer along with some dead soft, some tin, a couple thousand sierra matchkings and 10k primers and some damned fine cleaning equipment. Guess the movers were reloaders.

Weight distribution is worse than the accuracy. Its from 145 to 151. I cull everything thats not 146.5-147.5

I get a couple dozen very obviously bent bullets per casting run. Probably about 10%. Which makes me think the others may not be as obvious. Some break right in half in the bucket. I bounce em off a towel into water. And I add a towel over my cast bullets after every 100 or so for more padding. And I am casting at 750ish. So I wouldnt think temp is the problem. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong. Also, even if I smoke the mold it doesnt release the bullets. I have to tap the snot out of the hinge bolt to get the bullets out. Sprues cut by hand but I almost have to pry the bullets out. 1 cavity especially. Ive tapped that bolt so many times Ive bent the handles. My other molds are fine, this one just gives me fits. Well this one and my NOE 357 mold. But thats likely the HP pins.

My workup sucks because Im SUPER picky. Im not happy with 1 MOA and will keep changing things til I get a 10 shot group that touches everywhere. I know its not necessary but I can do it with most of my guns, so I expect them all to meet that standard. Except pistols unsupported. Thats different. Most shooters I know put a shoot n see target up, and if they can keep it in the color they are happy. I shoot a hole in a piece of cardboard and then shoot at that hole. If I dont group on it, and by that I mean a 10 rnd group that looks like a 4 or 5 round group, I keep working up my load. My dad could get those kind of results (with jacketed) in 40-50 rounds, takes me 100 or sometimes more. Sometimes WAY more. In this instance Im around 500 with no real consistency. But this 700 Action sure is getting slick...guess thats an upside.

[Digital Dan]

You need to know definitively what your alloy is. Sounds to me like what you're using is quite a bit harder than necessary. Why are you water quenching?

Don't know how hard you need to run it for the twist you have, but hard ain't your friend. Round I shoot has virtually the same capacity as the BO, barrel is a 12" twist for the 183.5 grain Brooks bullet. It is cast with 30:1 alloy, fired with 6.4 gr of Lil Gun and averages 1025 fps at the muzzle.

I shoot 150 gr bullet from a 9" twist 7x57 at 1900 fps, the alloy being 75/23/2 PB/COWW/sn without quenching. This and the bullet above shoot consistently in the 1.25 MOA range.

You our might find that if you use softer alloy the bullets will drop easier from the mould since it will shrink a bit more. You might also try slowing down your casting rate a little.

Separate your bullets into weight lots that vary by no more than .2 grains.

What is the neck ID of you cases after sizing? What is your sized bullet diameter? Just my opinion but the spread should be no more than .001" for your application.

What are you lubing your bullets with?

Are you crimping your bullets?

[adanymous]

Dan,

If I dont water drop they tend to deform from dropping them in a bucket.

The alloy info sounds reasonable. Thanks! Im happy to admit Im not expert.
I have never measured Id of case necks post sizing, Im not sure what that would do for me, but it is another variable to look at. 1 of a billion I guess. Bullet is sized .311 and Im lubing with felix red. Im using a lee FC die. Gonna try the cartridge without the fc step next.

[Digital Dan]

Lay a folded towel in a large pan, drop your bullets on the towel, not in a bucket. They won't burn the towel, but will have a soft landing.

If you're sizing to .311 and maybe seating in a neck ID of .306-.307 or so, you got yourself a squeeze going on that may not be in your best interest.

[BK7saum]

Not water quenching will cause boolits to be softer and you'll need to let them age garden for at least several days. Also you will have to use an expander not a flaring tool. I size my boolits to .3095 and use an expander the same diameter or 0.001" smaller than boolits to eliminate sizing of the boolit by the case neck. My expander is a custom M die expander measuring 0.309" minor diameter and 0.312 or 0.313" major diameter. I have a crimp die but don't use it at all or only to remove the flare. I don't actually crimp my cases. Some loads benefit from a crimp, some dont. Slower powders benefit and burn better crimped.

You might have deformation issues with smaller charges of fast powders and 247 NOE boolits. I experience really soft alloys would bump up the nose diameter and show heavy engraving of the lands, but my alloy was 1/1 PB/COWW with a bit of tin added. Slower powders are easier on the boolits. Just a bit of info that I've found out with the bolt action whisper.

Brad

[adanymous]

Brad,

Im not sure how to tell fast from slow powders to be honest. That is one area of this hobby I havent delved into yet. I have TONS of 4198 and 4895, which is why I was using 4198. I literally have something like 40lb of it. I was trying unique cause I have like 25 lb of it, but man it was way inconsistent and very dirty. I tried AA1680 but it didnt do any better than the 4198 for me so I switched back to something I dont have to buy.

Others,
Im using the NOE expander for the lee die, expanding to the same dia as the bullet after sizing, .311 or .310 I dont recall

[adanymous]

Got some brass ready and some bullets sorted and sized last night. gonna load up 50ish without a crimp and see if that helps. Cant shoot anyway, 3 days of rain....

[jcren]

4895 is a slow powder but works nicely in very reduced loads (Hodgdens recommends as little as 60% of max, I have used as little as 28 grains behind the lee 230 in 06 cases). Unique is a "fast" powder that I have also had good results from in that load, 1.25 or less at 100 yds, with 10 grains.

[BK7saum]

Fast powders are trail boss, red dot, American select, green dot, bulleseye, and so on. The pistol powders that are fast use small charge weights in relation to other powders in the loading data. There is a list in the front of every loading manual that lists powders in order of relative burn speed. Anything from the unique to 4198 or 1680 in the load data chart should be alright for subsonic. 4198 might be a bit slow but if it is burning clean then maybe it's okay.
Neck tension and/or crimp can be very important for consistency. Extreme spreads that are wide on velocity can lead to huge vertical dispersion with subsonic at distance. Are your groups tall or wide? And are you shooting over a chronograph to verify velocities and obtaining valuable velocity data?

[BK7saum]

4895 is a slow powder but works nicely in very reduced loads (Hodgdens recommends as little as 60% of max, I have used as little as 28 grains behind the lee 230 in 06 cases). Unique is a "fast" powder that I have also had good results from in that load, 1.25 or less at 100 yds, with 10 grains.

I believe that will be 10 grains of unique in the 06, not in a blackout. In a blackout, it will be more on the order of 4-5 grains and work up to your velocity.

[Artful]

Gentlemen - please keep in mind your giving a neophyte advise and double check your posts for accuracy and relevance to his 300 blackout situation.

As for powder burn rate - here's a link or two
http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/14/productId/162
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates%20-%202015-2016.pdf

Keep in mind that powder burn rates can vary depending upon the cartridge capacity and pressure your loading at.

[Digital Dan]

I agree with Artful on that. The distinction is found in 'Burn rate' vs. "Quickness". In the world of interior ballistics burn rate is of fairly small import when selecting a powder. Quickness taken in context of charge weight on the other hand, is the factor that determines if you still have a face after jerking the trigger. Because quickness is a variable influenced by a great many things you won't find a quickness chart out there. Think of it in terms of "progressive burn rate", ie, the more you increase charge the more pressure you get, and it is not a linear progression, but rather a geometric one.

A secondary issue in context of shooting cast bullets is what effect this has on the form of the pressure curve. "Slower" powders theoretically reach peak pressure a little further down the barrel and have a broader peak. Theoretically. It does not always work that way. Be thoughtful before telling someone to hold your beer..........

[adanymous]

Neck tension and/or crimp can be very important for consistency. Extreme spreads that are wide on velocity can lead to huge vertical dispersion with subsonic at distance. Are your groups tall or wide? And are you shooting over a chronograph to verify velocities and obtaining valuable velocity data?

The groups are wide. Like in a wide horizontal line. They are generally level though. Unfortunately we were flooded here back in Oct and my chronograph was killed in the flood...so no

[adanymous]

Artful, On your third link that chart seems to equivolate powders across brands. Am I correct in thinking that? And I had to look up neophyte, that doesnt happen often, well done.

[Digital Dan]

The groups are wide.

Wind...........or bedding, but I doubt that. Rx is wind flags for target work. Skill and cunning for soda cans.

[berksglh]

Im concerned with your alloy or casting temp. One or both are inaccurate as you assume. A good alloy, even COWW should be able to cast at 750+•F and not bend or break when dropped. I often cast with my digital non-PID lee pot at 750-790•F and just drop to 4 layers of paper towel and have never bent or broke a long rifle cast bullet.

If some are obvious, the rest may be warped and causing your grief.

Shoot a 20 rnd box of any store bought from a good sand bag rest to make sure the guns capable. And get a second temp reference, i have a cheep dial gauge and a digital that i use aide by side to be certain my readings are true.

[Artful]

Artful, On your third link that chart seems to equivolate powders across brands. Am I correct in thinking that? YES

And I had to look up neophyte, that doesnt happen often, well done.

Sorry I didn't mean to Flummox you!

[adanymous]

Wind...........or bedding, but I doubt that. Rx is wind flags for target work. Skill and cunning for soda cans.

Windless day. Wish I couldve shot today. We had prob a 20-25 mph wind that wouldve been full value across my range. Wind just makes shooting MORE fun. Only shot it once with the new stock and it was late. Switched out my scope, but I doubt the brand new leupold MK 2 would have any issues. Put a spare MKIV on it, its definitely not broken. Hoping to get some time to shoot and see if that helps much. Ill recast some bullets and try to check my temp better. Maybe I wasnt paying attention that day. And everything is still all set up so it wouldnt be any work. I do use a quality thermometer.

Art, I cant be vexed by your ostentatious manuscription! Witty wording works wonders on my well being.

[Digital Dan]

There is no such thing as a windless day. Truly. You don't perceive wind until it's up over 3 MPH. Higher if you've been drinking.

[adanymous]

Hey guys, I went to go try someone's advice and not crimp but close my neck bell with the seat die. But the die won't do it. I measured my brass and I'm .003 under min. Could that be a factor in my accuracy issue?

[adanymous]

There is no such thing as a windless day. Truly. You don't perceive wind until it's up over 3 MPH. Higher if you've been drinking.

True...but the wind would not have been significant...to a 17hmr

[adanymous]

Can I just touch it with the fc die?

[Artful]

Hey guys, I went to go try someone's advice and not crimp but close my neck bell with the seat die. But the die won't do it. I measured my brass and I'm .003 under min. Could that be a factor in my accuracy issue?

When you size your brass how much smaller is the case neck than your bullet?
You may need a M sizer or NOE die to open the neck up after sizing if your
brass is that much under sized after seating a bullet.

Measure your expander ball
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/Sizer_Die_011_zpst2zm6m7y.gif

[adanymous]

Art, I am using the NOE die. I love your diagram though. Thats a nice visual.

[Artful]

Amazing stuff you find with google image search...

What size NOE expander? it should be 0.002 or less under
the size of the cast your using.

IE. you bullet 0.311 your case before seating should be
0.309 in the neck, otherwise you might be putting too much
squeeze on the bullet after seating and deforming the boolit.
Do you have an impact bullet puller?

[adanymous]

I dont remember the size but I bought it specifically for this bullet. So its probably right. And yes I do. Should I pull one and mic it?

[Digital Dan]

True...but the wind would not have been significant...to a 17hmr

We aren't discussing the HMR are we?

Your NOE bullet has a better BC by far than any HMR bullet on the market. Soon as you adjust your perspective about wind your groups will shrink. It is ALWAYS a factor. Whether or not it is significant reflects upon your skill, nothing more or less.

[Artful]

Should I pull one and mic it?

I think I would if I could do it in a non-destructive way.

[Artful]

You still there ?

[adanymous]

Yeah, Ive had other projects going.
I loaded some without a SUPER light crimp from my FC die, but havent gotten to shoot em yet.

[Moonie]

The kind of accuracy from cast requires a lot of attention to detail. You will have to accept absolutely no blemishes in the finished boolits, weigh them and only accept the center of the bell curve. Weigh each powder charge and ensure they are all seated to exactly the same depth. Find the depth your rifle likes best. Do a ladder load to see exactly which powder charge your rifle prefers and fine tune. Only change one thing at a time. 1.5 MOA from cast boolits is very good, especially considering you are fairly new to casting. Some have many decades more experience and strive for this kind of accuracy.

[adanymous]

Moonie I appreciate what you're saying. I just want my cake and to eat it too

[Echo]

Sorry I didn't mean to Flummox you!

Art, Please eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation!

[popper]

Shoulder reaction to recoil. Watch your breathing, cheek, followthrough.

[adanymous]

Just an update. I got some palmetto projectiles in. Also 2 boxes of remington subsonics. Berksglh from here sent me some really nice bullets and even 15 loaded rounds each of 2 different bullets. That was pretty cool of him. So Im gonna go zero my rifle (switched scopes) on my stuff then shoot groups of the other stuff and see which works the best. I bet it isnt my stuff.

[adanymous]

I owe Berksglh some .357 brass. I might flip him a few of my loads to see if the are as bad through his rifle.

[dverna]

I owe Berksglh some .357 brass. I might flip him a few of my loads to see if the are as bad through his rifle.

do not be offended if he does not want to shoot your reloads. Many people will not shoot reloads from people they do not know. Some will not shoot reloads from people they know.

[berksglh]

do not be offended if he does not want to shoot your reloads. Many people will not shoot reloads from people they do not know. Some will not shoot reloads from people they know.

Hence the sort of scary disclaimer in my PM about trying my reloads.

If said ammo had all load data, Id just pull 1-2 and check them and compare to my sources for safe loadings.

If you trust all are the same, from there its still at your own risk. I more then trust my loads in "MY" guns, but Some people are still religious about the dangers of trying others loads in others guns. A lot of variables like throat dimensions, twist rate and type of gun can all creep up and create a dangerous combination.

And if anything ever went wrong?

If nothing else, shoot me a PM with your load data, and some castings. I can recreate and try that?

[popper]

Anyone have luck with NOE 309153 PB SP coated super? Saw the sale today, might try one as I need to order some stuff anyway.