A Range Day with the .45-70

[W.R.Buchanan]

Spent some time burning up some ammo at the range yesterday.

It was Short Range Silhouette day and I got there really late but only had 35 rounds loaded so it was relegated to figuring out what load ran the best.

I am using RCBS .45-300 RNFNGC as the boolit and it drops from my mould at 325 gr and .461-2. I size to .460.

I had powder charges from 29 to 35 gr of 5744 in 2 gr increments. 10 each, except for the 35 gr loads which I had already shot 3 of. They were getting up into the peppy range so I had backed off them.

I started out at 25 gr and the trajectory was so tall it was essentially unusable for the Silhouette game. There was nearly 9 MOA difference between 50 and 100 yards! Per the book they were way down at 1150-1200 fps.

I had previously attempted to sight the gun in but the Front Sight was too tall and thus the rear sight ran out of elevation adjustment.

I installed a shorter Front Sight,.150 lower, and was able to get the Lyman Rear Sight back down near the top of the receiver.

So I started shooting at the 50 meter Chickens with the 29 gr loads, and the first 5 were right in there. However the next 5 were in the dirt at 100 meters on the pigs.

So I next shot the 31 gr loads and they were dead on the pigs using a 12 o'clock hold and center hold on the chickens.

Then I tried the 33 gr loads, which are running right at 1500fps. with recoil no significant amount worse than any of the other loads. This load also shot close to the sights out to 200 yards. We have swinging targets at a bunch of different ranges and I managed to hit the 12" 200 yard swinger 4/5 offhand.

So now I have established that the gun will shoot, and I know approximately where the powder charge needs to be. (right at the top of Trapdoor loads.) so now the next thing will be installing a C&H Mercury Recoil Reducer, which I ordered from Brownell's a few days ago. It will add some weight and tone down the recoil enough to be able to shoot 40 rounds in a match with boolits at 1500-1600 fps. and 400 gr boolits at nearly the same velocity which will take down anything.

The biggest problem with this gun is that it only weighs 7 lbs 1oz! and so recoil becomes an issue quickly. I want to be able to shoot 400 gr boolits at 1500-1600fps for hunting but 300 gr boolits are at the top of what I can take and shoot 40 of. obviously the 400gr. boolits will have 25% more recoil at the same velocity.

So after the Recoil Reducer is installed I will be back at the range with a paper target set up at the 4 distances, and dialing the elevation offsets in on the rear sight. I will probably be using the 33 gr load as my standard load for the gun and will chrono it to see exactly what is going on. I can then go back to the Ballistic Calculator and plot the Trajectory out to 600 yards.

Then I can shoot the gun in Long Range Silhouette shoots as well.

Any way that's what I'm working on right now.

I also have a new little device which I am excited about that my friends here at Castboolits will be seeing very soon.

Stay tuned.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

Wow, great day at the range. Looks like you have a shooter and are pretty close to figuring out a load for it, a good day's work.

[725]

Good load development and good shooting. You've peeked my curiosity with that "new little device" thing.

[Blackwater]

That's some good offhand shooting WR! I'm impressed! Did you work on the trigger any?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Blackwater: I reworked the entire gun before I ever shot it. The gun was so rough it had to be done.

I have commented many times how Marlin Rifles are great candidates for TLC. This particular gun needed an extensive deburring session on the inside and the lever in particular was so sharp it would cut you. It got all the edges rounded and faired in and then reblued. The lifter cam on the lever also got a .030 radius put on it so it doesn't wear out the lifter.

The interior got completely deburred along with all the internal parts,,,and small changes to the cocking cam on the bolt and to the corresponding area on the hammer itself. The chamber mouth also got chamfered.

On the trigger I installed a Brownells Spring Kit and tweaked the hairpin spring. I also stoned the Sear and Hammer a small amount for a smoother let off. It was not that bad to begin with, so I simply eliminated the break in time. It still flops but the let off is crisp at 3lbs 4oz. In all honesty the spring kit was the biggest contributor to the trigger.

The action is smooth as glass now and runs like butter. It shucks the rounds thru like you'd expect it to and follow up shots will be fast.

All the instructions do this are on www.leverguns.com and it isn't that hard.

The LOP on the stock is a little long at 14" with the big Recoil Pad installed and I think I will shorten that a half inch or so when I install the Recoil Reducer. That will make the lever even easier to operate.

The gun feels nice in my hands and that's a big portion of what I go for.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

So this last weekend I reloaded ammo.

I made 100 .45-70 with the .45-300 FNGC 330gr boolit and 33.0 gr of 5744.

I still have to install my Recoil Reducer in the gun and then back to the range to run the Chrony and Sight the gun in at all 4 distances.

I plan on doing this right, and with this boolit as this is the boolit I'm going to use most in the gun. Then I will load some 400gr boolits and shoot them to adjust the elevation offsets as needed.

Depending on how effective the Recoil Reducer actually is will determine exactly how stiff the 400 gr loads will be.

Randy

[Blackwater]

Great job, Randy. People who've never felt a really well slicked up Marlin usually don't believe it when they finally get to handle one. It's amazing what the conversion can do to them! I'm not as bright as you and use some rather stiffish loads in my Guide Gun. Not the top rated ones, but all my old creaky shoulders want to deal with very much these days. I find having to be gentler with myself aggrevating, but satisfying at the same time. Old age is full of ironies, isn't it?

If millions of buffalo yielded to it with black powder, I don't think I'll need to worry about you due to the level of your loads! As a buddy of mine once pointed out re the .45/70, "You can load it with cast or jacketed, ash trays or feather pillows, and it'll STILL kill!" And that's pretty much how it's always been with that caliber, too. I haven't figured out how to get an ash tray to seat, and the feather pillows have to be cut into smaller, fitable pieces, but I have little doubt they'd do the job. One great old caliber and one great gun you've got there. I'm betting you'll be eating anything from armadillo to Brown Bears, or anything else you want to hunt with it.

[TXGunNut]

Sounds exciting. Is the 400 a GC boolit too?

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK; yesterday 4/2/16 I finally got back to the range after we shot Silhouette and dialed the Marlin in. I think I got a winner!

I had installed the Recoil Reducer and along with it's effects picked up another pound in weight so now the gun weighs 8 lbs 2 oz. It does kick but with the Big Recoil Pad and Extra Weight it is very tolerable.

It now balances on the receiver instead of on the fore end. I can easily shoot 40 rounds with the 33gr 5744/ RCBS 45-300FNGC load.

It knocks the Livin' Ship out of the Steel Silhouette Targets. Very satisfying!

I shot 3, 3 shot groups on targets at 100 yards off the bench. #'s 2 and 3 were pretty good for Iron Sights and a Levergun. #2 is 1 3/4" and 3 is 2 3/4".

I am currently Happy as a Clam with this gun! and the results I am getting are close to what Brian Pearce has gotten from similar Marlins. I am sure in the right hands my gun is capable of tightening these groups even a little more.

However the big win yesterday was hitting a 9" Diamond at 200M /220 yds. offhand on the third shot,, with 3 guys watching! Got a lot of mileage off that shot!

Here's the targets.

Randy

Nice big easy to see holes in the targets as well.

[TXGunNut]

Looking good, Randy. There's something about a 45-70 levergun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Saturdays Short Range Silhouette Match 4/16/16 resulted in the death of 7 Chickens, 7 Pigs and 3 Turkeys. We have no rams placed at 200 meters so I shot at a 12" gong and missed it 5 times. Only had 35 rounds with me instead of the normal 50 so I had to quit early.

The gun shoots and whereas the recoil is noticeable it is not punishing in any way. I shot all 35 rounds in just over an hour with no ill effects whatsoever and no induced flinching.

Pretty happy with how this gun has turned out. Just goes to show that whereas Marlins do tend to be somewhat rough out of the box, they can be made in to excellent shooters with some TLC, and a little load work. I might add that this gun has never had even one Factory Loaded Round fired in it. Only Cast Boolits made by me!

Pretty good day at the range and I was High Score for High Power guns and I think I beat all the Rimfire guys as well.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

Love it when a project comes together! Congrats!

[FergusonTO35]

Sounds great! This reminds me, my 1978 1895 could use some exercise...

[Ed in North Texas]

Great report.

Blackwater, RE: those millions of buffalo killed, many of them were killed not with the .45-70, but with the .50-70. When the Army switched from .50-70 to .45-70 there was a lot of ammo left with no issue firearms. The Army disposed of the .50-70 ammo by giving it to Bison (and other) hunters.

Even so, maybe 2 plus million Bison were killed between the white and tribal hunters. The rest of almost all the best estimate 60 million Bison were killed by people bringing cattle on the Great Plains, bringing disease with them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Blackwater: the load I'm using is 33 gr of 5744 with the RCBS .45-300FNGC for about 1550 fps per the book. This load is peppy but far from punishing. Keep in mind that I am shooting in Shorts and a Tee Shirt. Not a Heavy Coat like you'd be wearing on an Elk Hunt. Just that extra clothing alone would offset the extra Recoil of the 400 gr boolits at the same speed.

I would submit that you could get a lot more shooting done in one session with a load using lighter boolits and thus get more practice in. Then when you need the extra power you will have the built up skills to handle them better for the few shots necessary to take the game and probably be wearing heavy clothing as well. In short you'll do better in the field, which is the whole Idea. :bigsmyl2:

Once you get that load dialed in you could shoot 50 rounds in one sitting easily and really work on your form, sight picture and trigger control which would definitely benefit you with the heavy loads. Guide Guns are rather light as well so coming up with something lighter makes sense, and I assure you that 300 gr boolits at 1400 fps will knock the "stuffin" out of just about anything they connect with. They certainly move 20 lb. steel chickens and 30 lb. Pigs around smartly.

That's what the Short Range Silhouette Game is all about, Hunting Rifles at Hunting Ranges appropriate for the guns you shoot. :mrgreen:

The whole idea here is to shoot a lot more. Nobody can take 400 gr boolits at 1800fps :veryconfu for more than a few shots, and those few shots are more than enough to develop some nice bad habits if you don't shoot enough to get past them. Wouldn't be a bad idea to put on one of the Limbsaver Slip On Recoil Pads which work really well. They are at Walmart for $25 and well worth the money.

Anyway that's what I'm doing and having a great time doing it and then reloading the empty cases with my new Hand Press which is very well suited for the job if I do say! [smilie=p:

Randy

[Norske]

The Lyman factory equivalent load for a 400gr bullet is 38.5gr IMR 3031. It is very pleasant to shoot and groups inside a Remington factory 400 CL group at 25 and 50 yards.
When testing, it was for an outfitted black bear hunt so I didn't need any distances over 35 yards.