22 Hornet Mold?

[davidheart]

This is going to be a long shot I know but I'll give a little side story why I ask...

About 4 years ago my grandfather passed away at 83. He was an passionate outdoorsman, hunter, and trout fisherman and the closest thing I had to a father figure within my family bloodline. His life inspired me in many ways. He farmed, hunted or fished much of his food, and grandma canned veggies and meat. He also had several fruit trees on the property, dug himself out a pond to stock up with trout, and was a very hard worker right up until his last days. I still remember him at age 81 shoveling 3 feet of snow in a cold Pennsylvania storm. He was very poor, but lived a modest and content life.

After he passed the "caretakers" of my grandma started stealing items from the house. Among those items were several of my grandfather's firearms, reloading equipment, tools, and other belongings. One rifle was not stolen though and although him and grandma had 4 children, and 9 grandchildren according to grandma I was their favorite and like a son to them.

My grandfather's Savage 342 22 Hornet was passed on to me. He bought it new and put plenty of deer on the table with it. I started reloading because of his 22 Hornet and it shoots 45gr sierras in a dime. I'm now in the process of restoring the worn rifle and topping it with his old Weaver scope.

I'd like to be able to cast for the rifle so I have an "endless" supply of bullets to always shoot with his rifle but the molds I've found for anything less than 50 grain are $75+. I have a wife and three children now. Dropping that much money on a mold is difficult at the moment. The molds I have purchased for myself had been $20 Lee molds but since my 4 month old was born the funds have become more tight.

If any of y'all has a light 225 mold collecting dust I'd be able to use for my grandfather's rifle I would greatly appreciate it. I'm not sure what weight would be best. It's a 1:16 twist. I was suggested to buy a Lyman 225438 2 years ago by a member here, but I was never able to because of budgeting reasons.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[kenyerian]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/22-Bator-point225-Diameter-2-Cavity-Mold-C225-55-RF Lee Double Cavity Mold produces a gas checked .225 diameter 55 grain round with flat bullet suitable for .22 cal cartridges. Handles included for 18.94. This is a great deal on a new mold.

[shoot-n-lead]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/22-Bator-point225-Diameter-2-Cavity-Mold-C225-55-RF Lee Double Cavity Mold produces a gas checked .225 diameter 55 grain round with flat bullet suitable for .22 cal cartridges. Handles included for 18.94. This is a great deal on a new mold.

There ya' go...one that will fit your budget.

[davidheart]

Will 55 shoot out of the Hornet?

[BrassMagnet]

Will 55 shoot out of the Hornet?

Yes, it will.

[davidheart]

I guess what I'm asking is, with a 1:16 twist will the 55 grain tumble?

[BrassMagnet]

I guess what I'm asking is, with a 1:16 twist will the 55 grain tumble?

I don't know the answer to that.
Experimentation is the best way to find answers.
I should be casting some Hornet weight boolits later in the week. Want to try some?

[kenyerian]

I'm not sure what twist my contender is but it works with H4227

[davidheart]

I don't know the answer to that.
Experimentation is the best way to find answers.
I should be casting some Hornet weight boolits later in the week. Want to try some?

Yes please, that would be wonderful! If you have a 55gr I could test out I'll know if the Lee mold will work for me. I always thought a 36-45gr mold is what I lit. needed.


I'm not sure what twist my contender is but it works with H4227

I googled the twist rate on the Contender. It looks like a 1:12 twist rate which would properly stabilize a 55gr boolit.

[richhodg66]

If you can get one, the Lee Bator bullet shoots very well through my Syevens 322, the same rifle as yours basically.

I really like the NOE 45 grain WFN for small game, but sadly, it doesn't want to feed in my bolt action.

The 1 in 16 seems to work fine for me with the Bator bullets.

[kenyerian]

It does a great job on coyotes.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

David,
I have some 225415 cast in the OLD Lyman mold that drop at 45gr. straight Lino .227 as cast.

[davidheart]

If you can get one, the Lee Bator bullet shoots very well through my Syevens 322, the same rifle as yours basically.

I really like the NOE 45 grain WFN for small game, but sadly, it doesn't want to feed in my bolt action.

The 1 in 16 seems to work fine for me with the Bator bullets.

If the 55gr Bator will work, it'll be the cost effective solution I could do in the next couple weeks. Buying a $75 mold I'm not sure will work in my rifle won't do for me unless work starts to pick up. I just sold a mold and we were able to successfully buy groceries the other day. I try to keep "gun money" as "gun money" but the timing was such.

[BrassMagnet]

David,
I have some 225415 cast in the OLD Lyman mold that drop at 45gr. straight Lino .227 as cast.

I say, "Try those out!"

[richhodg66]

I wondered about the bullet weight of the Bators, but despite being heavier, they were actually shorter than the 225438 and length is the real problem with twist, not weight.

The Bator is a good design. Big lube grooves, flat nose, but rounded enough to feed well. I like it a lot.

FWIW, my Savage 219 with the very light loads I shoot in it, shot well with gas check designs sans gas check.

You're gonna like that rifle, that series were better rifles than they are given credit for gnerally. The split receiver bridge presents some problems with scope mounting, but it can be overcome easily enough.

[richhodg66]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/22-Bator-point225-Diameter-2-Cavity-Mold-C225-55-RF Lee Double Cavity Mold produces a gas checked .225 diameter 55 grain round with flat bullet suitable for .22 cal cartridges. Handles included for 18.94. This is a great deal on a new mold.

By the way, that bullet pictured is not the Bator. Lee also has a .22 bullet mold out there which is a close copy of the RCBS bullet I'm told. It might work just as well, I have no experience with it.

Seems there was a thread that mentioned this was the actual Bator and Midsouth had the wrong design pictured. I can't remember where I saw it now.

[dancingbear41]

161509

Here's mine. The Lyman 22596 a little 49 grain bullet. It is a single cavity mould so it is a slow process.

[davidheart]

Wow, those are fantastic looking bullets dancing bear. I don't have a lubrisizer yet so I need to tumble lube all of my boolits. They never come out as clean looking as some of y'alls boolits.

So your saying the bullet pictured is not the Bator bullet Rich? According to the serial numbers on Midsouth Shooters Supply the bullet pictured matches the 22 caliber boolit on Lee's website.

[davidheart]

David,
I have some 225415 cast in the OLD Lyman mold that drop at 45gr. straight Lino .227 as cast.

May I try those out? PM inbound!

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

PM back at ya

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

My OLD Lyman is also single cav. I feel your pain,but a pot-o-lead last's a looooonnnngggg time!!!!
161509

Here's mine. The Lyman 22596 a little 49 grain bullet. It is a single cavity mould so it is a slow process.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip...

So your saying the bullet pictured is not the Bator bullet Rich? According to the serial numbers on Midsouth Shooters Supply the bullet pictured matches the 22 caliber boolit on Lee's website.
David,
The Bator is a short fat boolit, it's about 50 gr (the molds vary from batch to batch, I have five of them), it works well in my Ruger #3, which is a 1:16 twist. I suspect a short fat 50gr boolit will work in a slower twist better than a 50gr. boolit with a long skinny nose, like the Lyman 225415, if you are familiar with that one.

Midsouth WAS the only place to get a Bator mold, Now their website is confusing, because they list Lee's standard C225-55-RF (RCBS clone, with it's correct part number from Lee) as a Bator(which is a custom and never had a Lee part number). In another thread, when I pointed out the difference between these two boolits, a member reported buying this mold from midsouth recently, and they claimed it was the Bator design, instead of the RCBS design. Did he get an old stock mold? and when that stock runs out, the Bators will be gone forever ? I suspect so, as there is no reason for midsouth to pay the custom fees for the Bator, when they can just order the standard RCBS clone...while similar enough for a 'vendor', it's a totally different boolit to us castboolit shooters.

ANYWAY,
David, send my your address, and I'll ship you a 2 cavity Bator mold. The one I'd send you is the older style, without the alignment pins. IIRC, it casts about 52gr with COWW alloy(will probably be 50gr with Lino), The nose is a bit fatter than the Specification, which might be the cats meow, if your old rifle has a worn throat from decades of shooting.
Jon

[davidheart]

David,
.....
ANYWAY,
David, send my your address, and I'll ship you a 2 cavity Bator mold. The one I'd send you is the older style, without the alignment pins. IIRC, it casts about 52gr with COWW alloy(will probably be 50gr with Lino), The nose is a bit fatter than the Specification, which might be the cats meow, if your old rifle has a worn throat from decades of shooting.
Jon

WOOHOO!!! PM Inbound! Thank you so much Jon.

[richhodg66]

For all I know, that RCBS clone may be as good as the Bator. I got a six cavity one when I could and am glad I did. I haven't tried a whole lot of different types, but it looks to me like it should be a good general purpose bullet in any .22 Centerfire.

I recommend one of the Lee type push through sizers, I have found working with those itty bitty bullets to be a pain with a regular sizer luber. I also haven't yet found a top punch that doesn't mark the bullet noses somewhat, though it doesn't seem to adversely affect accuracy the times I've tried it.

[davidheart]

For all I know, that RCBS clone may be as good as the Bator. I got a six cavity one when I could and am glad I did. I haven't tried a whole lot of different types, but it looks to me like it should be a good general purpose bullet in any .22 Centerfire.

I recommend one of the Lee type push through sizers, I have found working with those itty bitty bullets to be a pain with a regular sizer luber. I also haven't yet found a top punch that doesn't mark the bullet noses somewhat, though it doesn't seem to adversely affect accuracy the times I've tried it.

Jon told me in a message the mold is a .229, not .225. I'm going to guess it was made for Savage Hi-Power? He said he was going to send it over and I'll be able to give it a shot but I'm not sure if they'll fit inside the cases. At some point I'll be able to pick up a .225 sizer die. Maybe the boolit won't deform bad when I push it through the sizer? But if it doesn't shoot well I'll be sure to pass on the .229 mold to somebody else in need.

[BrassMagnet]

Jon told me in a message the mold is a .229, not .225. I'm going to guess it was made for Savage Hi-Power? He said he was going to send it over and I'll be able to give it a shot but I'm not sure if they'll fit inside the cases. At some point I'll be able to pick up a .225 sizer die. Maybe the boolit won't deform bad when I push it through the sizer? But if it doesn't shoot well I'll be sure to pass on the .229 mold to somebody else in need.

I just might be in need for a .228 mould...I just might have sizing goodies, too!
See your mould for trade thread.

[davidheart]

I just might be in need for a .228 mould...I just might have sizing goodies, too!
See your mould for trade thread.

Rich already contacted me for the .229 mold. When Jon_B sends it over I'll cast a few boolits and see how they throw. If they do in fact throw a .229 boolit I'll let you guys know so we could trade out. Rich will have first dibs though! :)

[BrassMagnet]

Rich already contacted me for the .229 mold. When Jon_B sends it over I'll cast a few boolits and see how they throw. If they do in fact throw a .229 boolit I'll let you guys know so we could trade out. Rich will have first dibs though! :)

Rich,

Are you playing with 22 Savage High Power or do you just want to play with an oversize mould?

[richhodg66]

A .22 High Power. Molds are scarce that cast that big, if nothing else, anyone who has a mold that does, I could work a bullet swap or something.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was "out and about" all day yesterday.

The custom Lee Bator (from midsouth), before Lee upgraded their 2 cavity molds to have alignment pins (and other improvements), were generally oversized...although it seemed each batch was a bit different, from my own personal experience and what was reported here at CB.

This .229 (fat nosed .222) boolit, sized down .227 or .226 should be the cat's meow for davidheart's old, and with possibly a worn throat, Savage 22 Hornet.

Depending on the brass thickness (brand differences), a .227 boolit should have no problem chambering in that savage...at least they do (with R+P and W-W Super brass) in my Ruger #3 which has been shot very little, and should have a fairly tight chamber.

[richhodg66]

I never thought to slug the barrels on my .22 Hornets, both are old, but bullets sized to .225 seem to shoot well in both.

[davidheart]

I have good news and I have bad (sad) news.

The good news is Buckeye's bullets arrived and I loaded up about 10 light rounds with 1.5-2gr of Bullseye before work today. They shot great!

The bad news is my grandfathers old 3-9 Weaver scope won't adjust anymore from left to right. So all of my shots are 7 inches left at 25 yards. I had just bought this one inch scope mount for it too ($50!) The original scope is a 3/4" 4x Weaver that's very very dark and clouded brown. Target acquisition is only possible in perfect light.

The silver lining is that I was still able to group <1" at ~30 yards with iron sights and Buckeye's lyman bullets and without my grandfather's scope and mount topping the rifle it now weighs about a pound and a half lighter and points very quickly.

I just had this vision in my mind of "My grandfather's rifle with my grandfather's scope" and without the scope I can't take full advantage of this rifle's capabilities because as I said before, it EASILY groups within a dime for what one might call "jacketed deer/coyote loads."

[davidheart]

Rich and Ron, y'alls boolits came in and I was able to load up some subsonic rounds yesterday. I had some issues chambering Jon's boolits and they are definitely oversized as evidenced by the case stretch!

After having two stuck rounds in my barrel when chambering to standard length I decided to slug my barrel with one of Jon's oversized boolits. Before slugging, Jon's boolit measured .2285

162126

After slugging my bore the boolit measured .222 at the grooves and .217 at the lands. I took several measurements just to be sure.

I'll test for groups later. The initial loads I made with 1.5gr bullseye shooting at soup cans at 50 yards open sights 5 rounds each the only ones which hit were the plain base NOE 45gr Rich sent and Buckeye's Lyman 22596 gas check if that means anything. I need to figure something out with my scope or strap the gun down in a buddies lead sled before I could test for groups.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well, I guess I called that wrong :oops: (with your rifle having worn chamber)

[BrassMagnet]

It sure sounds like Rich is going to have a .228 mould to go with his 22 Savage High Power Lyman 310 tool!

[davidheart]

Sorry Jon. I don't think my chamber is worn at all! It was a really really good try though and the mold is in great shape.

If it were me the chamber would have definitely been worn. I'm thinking my grandfather wasn't as ardent of a shooter as I am! :D

[richhodg66]

I never have slugged mine, just sized to .225 and away I ent, worked fine.

The .22 Hornet standard bore before WWII was .223, like a .22 LR. Not sure exactly when Savage started making the 340, but I'm surprised your bore slugged that small.

Did those 45 grain WFN feed in yours? Mine won't feed it, but to be fair, I haven't worked at trying to get it to feed much yet.

I personally think you'll find that Bator to be you best all around bullet when you get one that is sized right for your rifle.

[richhodg66]

That NOE bullet accounted for another one this evening. I'm still impressed by how the terminal performance/energy transfer of that bullet works. Two grains of Bullseye isn't a strong load, but it hammers little critters, even with body shots, they go nowhere and meat destruction is minimal to nonexistant. Can't say enough good things about it.

162156

[davidheart]

I was just about to ask you how many grains of bullseye you'd recommend! I was trying 1.5 and getting an inch at 30 yards. I'll give 2 a try! I think that NOE bullet works so well because of the large front meplat. It seems to be an effective combination for cast boolits no matter what size.

[richhodg66]

I doubt the squirrels could tell the difference between 1.5 grain and two, and there is a pretty significant noise difference if that's important. I really like the RCBS Lil Danday powder measure and got the smallest rotor they had which throws 1.7 grains of Bullseye. When I try it, if the groups are the same, I think I'm going to standardize on that out of simplicity.

[Littlewolf]

noe has cloned the 225450 47gr spire that shoots great in my 22hornet handi-rifle I have the old ideal made mold in 1 cav but I could send ye some of those lubed and gas checked if you want

[davidheart]

I appreciate it Littlewolf. I received a whole bunch of help from a few guys here and I'd hate to impose anymore. Thank you so much for your offer!

[SSGOldfart]

My OLD Lyman is also single cav. I feel your pain,but a pot-o-lead last's a looooonnnngggg time!!!!
Yes it does,I have both the old single cavity and a couple of the newer NOE Sir you need to check your bore some of those older Hornet have a .223 bore with 1/16" twist, most newer ones are.224 bore with 1/12"twist.

[BrassMagnet]

The twist is easy to check with a cleaning rod and a marking pen.

[davidheart]

The twist is easy to check with a cleaning rod and a marking pen.

Yep, that's how I checked it. 1/16 twist. .223 bore.

[SSGOldfart]

I have a few boxes of .223 j words if your interested
They are 40gr hornet Sierra#1100and 45 gr Sierra
Shoot me a pm if you want them,my newest hornet is a .224

[farmbif]

I hate thieves, I'm in about the same situation with a hornet, I found a new in the box old stock charles daly superior grade last summer for the original sticker price. I finally got a bag of new brass and a Lyman M die. From what I've read it also has 1-16 twist which means that It would most likely shoot the 225438 reliably. I have been wondering if unique might work in the hornet. I hav'nt seen 2400 on a store shelf or online in years

[davidheart]

I found this thread for you: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?71225-Squirrel-Loads-for-a-22-Hornet

I'd figure 3-5gr of unique with a 45gr boolir will work great. I've been using 2gr bullseye for a 50 yard load with NOE WFN 45gr boolits Rich was generous to send me.

[No_1]

I dearly love the 22 Hornet and have subscribed to this thread.

[4719dave]

I would really like to thank all you guys for posting all this 22 hornet stuff ..Because ive got the bug ... And now own a contender ..

[richhodg66]

I found this thread for you: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?71225-Squirrel-Loads-for-a-22-Hornet

I'd figure 3-5gr of unique with a 45gr boolir will work great. I've been using 3gr bullseye for a 50 yard load with NOE WFN 45gr boolits Rich was generous to send me.

How's 3 grains working with that bullet? I haven't gone above 2 with it being plain based and that seemed good enough. I don't use it in my bolt gun like yours, but in my 219, which is inherently a less accurate rifle, it's almost like I can't miss with it when hunting.

Did you get that WFN to feed through the magazine in your 340?

[davidheart]

Oh yea Rich, the NOE WFN feeds perfectly fine. I could get the OAL for you after church.

2gr! I didn't go up to 3gr for Bullseye. That was a typo I'm going to fix ASAP in the above post! I'll test it up to 3gr, but I haven't gone there yet!

[davidheart]

Well this will tell you how hectic my week has been! Here are those OAL numbers I was supposed to get to y'all "after church" last Sunday. :D

Lee Bator 45gr - 1.650
NOE WFN 45gr - 1.640
Lyman 225438 41gr - 1.745
Lyman 225415 50gr - 1.756

Using PPC 22 Hornet Bass trimmed with a Lee case trimmer to minimum length, chamfered, deburred and flash hole deburred.

Boolits were seated to meet two requirements:
1) Fit the Savage 342 magazine to feed properly (1.770 MAX)
2) Seat the cast boolit touching the lands in my grandfather's rifle.

I have 35 boolits loaded up, ready for testing. The scope bonking out really hindered my testing though. I haven't had the time to fiddle with it. When I have more data. I'll be sure to post here though. Maybe the information will help somebody?

[davidheart]

Lee Bator 45gr - 1.650
NOE WFN 45gr - 1.640
Lyman 225438 41gr - 1.745
Lyman 225415 50gr - 1.756


Finally shot the NOE WFN at 1.5gr and 2gr at the above OAL's.

1.5gr Bullseye gave me 4 shots within 1 inch @ 25yards w/ 1 flier

2gr Bullseye gave me 5 shots within 1/2 inch @25 yards w/ no flier

No fouling. Report was less than a 22lr so much so one of my goats walked over in the field and laid down 5 feet from where I was shooting... and just watched me while she was chewing her cud. Report and recoil was so low I actually checked after several of the shots if they squibed.