Older "nose moulds"??

[wadcutter]

I started casting before the internet existed and much of what I learn was from old 1920's-1950's American Rifleman magazines (which I threw out like an idiot). I vague recall that what I think of as nose moulds were once popular. In my mind I remember a two cavity mould with a nose-only section on one cavity and the full bullet in the other. The idea being that you'd cast soft lead in the nose, then transfer it to the other cavity and pour a harder alloy to complete the base.

Anyone else recall seeing these? Ideally I'd like to collect a few of these older moulds so I'd love to learn the mold numbers. I'm not really interested in modern molds.

By the way, I have no practical purpose for this or 99% of the silly hobbies I pursue so it's not use telling me it's not worth it.

Thanks in advance.

[Guesser]

I remember those molds. The later version was epoxied together, supposedly they had a devastating effect by creating a large wound channel. Always seemed like a lot of time and trouble for something that wouldn't be needed in average shooting hunting endeavors. Like you, I started young and with pass down guidance and what little was available in periodicals.

[longbow]

Take a look through the old catalogues and manuals here:

http://castpics.net/LoadData/OM/default.html

For some reason the new Castpics isn't working but this gets you some of it.

I know the moulds you meant and yes, there have been at least a couple of styles (Ideal IIRC) where you pour nose then insert into the body cavity to cast the body around the nose and post on the nose and as Guesser mentions, Lyman made a more recent version where nose and body were cast separately then epoxied together.

I likely have the reference info for these buried as I have copies of some old manuals and mould listings. I will guess that the Ideal moulds would be quite rare.

Longbow

There we go:

http://castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/1900_Ideal_Catalog.pdf

Page 121 shows what you are looking for.

And pages 80 & 86 here:

http://castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/1929_Ideal_Catalog.pdf

[wadcutter]

Yes. I found a copy of the 1929 Ideal catalog. They called them "tip" rather than nose molds. They seem to be very rare.

They only list them for rifles, but I seem to remember someone made them for SWC's as well. I think I have my next project.

[Red River Rick]

"Composite Bullets" is the term.

Lots of info here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/search.php?searchid=3146959

RRR

[wadcutter]

Ah. I'm probably combining articles from the 1920's and 1980's in my mind. Thanks for the modern terminology. The later composite designs are pretty different, and to my eye a lot less elegant, than the ones from the early 20th century. They idea of gluing together cast bullets just doesn't seem right.

I imagine the old tip molds were a bit tricky, as you really need to warm up the tip to get good even fill around it with the harder alloy, but I'd really like to try.

[catskinner]

I have never seen one of those molds but they are shown in early Ideal catologs. The later composite bullets the two pieces were epoxied together.

[longbow]

In large calibers (.457" 500 grain) I have very successfully cast a soft lead nose using a small ladle then immediately pouring the body with a larger ladle. If the mould i shot the two fuse perfectly. However, I tried using my Lyman 314299 200 gr. .30 cal mould with no success at all! I even heated the mould up to almost the melting point of the lead and still got obvious seams.

It does work well with larger caliber moulds though. So no real need for nose moulds except for the novelty... and I would expect the same sort of issues putting a cool nose into a mould then pouring around it and not getting seams or voids. I suspect the noes would have to be pre-heated, alloy HOT and mould near lead melting temp to get good consistent results.

It would be interesting to try with one of those old moulds though. For that matter just having one would be interesting.

Longbow

[runfiverun]

if you look for the sticky [the Bruce B method] he explains how to make soft nose boolits with a regular mold.
it is really the best way to make a 2 part boolit I have ever seen.

[wadcutter]

if you look for the sticky [the Bruce B method] he explains how to make soft nose boolits with a regular mold.
it is really the best way to make a 2 part boolit I have ever seen.

Yes, I've done it. It's very simple and effective, but not what I'm looking for.

[longbow]

I've done the BruceB method too and while it works, it is slow for any sort of production rate. It works fine to make a few softnose boolits for hunting.

With the larger caliber moulds of .44 or .45 it is pretty easy to cast using the two ladle method and even have a decent production rate. I certainly didn't succeed with my .30 cal. boolits though.

In reality of course who needs a bunch of softnose boolits for plinking or blowing up water jugs? Wheelweight hp's work fine for that.

I would certainly pick the original 2 piece method or BruceB method over using the Lyman epoxy version though.

And in wadcutter's case he is interested in the history and original moulds so a different criteria to just producing a softnose boolit any old way.

Longbow

[Bent Ramrod]

Something like this, perhaps?

161457

They used to turn up infrequently at Gun Shows. Haven't seen another in years. Supposedly, the tip, cast from lead, would have a higher melting point than the #2 or Linotype the rest of the boolit would be cast from, and the tapered sprew on the tip would lock it into the new boolit without being melted.

Haven't had a chance to try it as my 308241 mould has a much rounder nose than this tip mould has. It is marked with that mould number, though.

Lyman revived the concept in the 70's or early '80's if I recall, with a large hollow point base with the driving bands and a more or less egg-shaped insert which was to be cast from pure lead and epoxied into the base. Never saw one of those, and I looked pretty hard.

[wadcutter]

Yes Bent, that's the ticket. Is your 308241 from a more recent vintage? Feel free to me me if you want to unload that ill fitting tip mold:)

[Alan in Vermont]

LBT had, in the dim past, a special pot that could be adjusted to drop a "blip" of lead into a regular mold then balance of the mold was filled with harder alloy. I would love to find one of those pots just so I could be the only kid on the block with one.

I have poured some two part 311440 by filling the nose with a small dipper of pure and immediately filling the rest of the mold. Slow process with a huge reject rate but I got a few usable boolits out of it.

I'm surrounded, for want of a better term, by a bunch of "kids" who have grown up with the flood of information and components that we enjoy now. But, they have never been inclined to explore stuff just for doing it.

I enjoy it greatly when I do something totally off the wall, from their point of view. 45 ACP shotshells? "Check" 30-30 gallery loads? "Check" 6.5mm RM cases from 7mm Mag? "Check"

Their response is usually some variant of "Why would you want to do that?"

"Because I can!" :)

The knowledgeable shooters in my age group(60+) see the same thing and want to know how I did it.