Bullseye powder and standard ball loads 45acp

[Animal]

I came across Bullseye powder recently. I always wanted to work up a standard ball load for 45acp. I've been using Red Dot because it was largely available and seemed to do okay. The only thing I don't like about the Red Dot is the fact that it doesn't meter very well. I'm hoping the Bullseye will do a little better.

I've noticed that specifications tend to be all over the place in regards to the velocity of traditional "ball ammo" as specified for military usage. I'm under the impression that 800-830fps is likely close enough, and possibly on the low side of the spectrum. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll be using Lymans 452374 cast of COWW + 2%tin. They size pretty well at a dead .452. My cases will be Starline with Winchester Large Primers. I have had pretty good luck with seating this bullet to 1.264. I've got multiple sources for data and will start the load conservatively at 10% below the lowest MIN charge that I have listed and stay safely below max. I see a fair amount of conflicting data regarding Min/Max vs. Velocity. This seems to be a fairly common phenomenon considering different materials/tools/methods are used by different companies. I was hoping that a powder that is as time-tested as Bullseye would have a more consistent consensus among the load data companies. I reckon I was mistaken.

I'd like to hear how your experiences have been when trying to duplicate standard ball loads with the same bullet combination.

Thanks

[Pardini]

I've always used 3.5 grains of Bullseye under a 185 or 200 lead boolit for Bullseye shooting. It was the load all the old timers were using at matches back in the day when I was shooting 1800 matches. Worked great and I'm sure I chrono'd it but I can't recall the number. Wasn't 800.

[Outpost75]

.45 ACP, Small Vs. Large Primer

______________________M1911A1_NM-5"
230-gr._WinFMJ__________Avg.__Sd__ES
TW55 M1911 Ball REF_____858___28__72
AlliantBE_5.0_CCI_LgPmr__842___11__29
________5.0_CCI_SmPmr_811___18__49

H&G#68_200grain SWC
AlliantBE_4.5 grs._CCI_LgPmr__863__21__51
________4.5 grs._CCI_SmPmr_864__46__115
________5.0 grs._CCI_LgPmr__945__6__15
________5.0 grs._CCI_SmPmr__922__19__42

[Iowa Fox]

I've sure shot a lot of 452460 & 452389 with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. The pistol ran 100% on 3.5 grns

[wv109323]

Hillbilly Hardball is 5.0 gns. of Bullseye with a 230 gn. RN bullet.
The military spec. for 230 gn. RN varied from 800-850 FPS. It depended on manufacturer and date.
The hottest rounds were Federal Match which were around 870 FPS.
A good load for 200 gn. LSWC is 4.2 gns. of Bullseye. That is for slide mounted optics with a 10 or 11 pound spring.
The old standard before optics was 3.5 gns. of Bulleye with a 200 gn. LSWC. The spring was usually dropped from the standard 16 lbs. to 14 lbs.

[scattershot]

5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain bullet has been the standard for so long that I can't remember where I first heard of it. I have read recently that Bullseye was the original powder in the military load

[lotech]

Again, 5 grs. Bullseye with the the Lyman #452374 sized at .452". I've had my mould for a good while and bullets cast of straight wheelweight average around 216 grs., a bit lighter than what they should be, but they shoot well in most guns.

[kerreckt]

Don't like to be repetitive but 5.0grBE with 230gr.RN is the old reliable load. I have shot this combo for as long as I can remember. It functions in every 45 auto I have used.

[Animal]

Thanks folks. I see that even though the specifications for this powder and bullet weight lack consistency between data companies, consensus is available among the loading community who have developed these loads. That is exactly what I was hoping to find. Thanks for your input folks.

[Char-Gar]

Indeed the 45 ACP round was developed with Bulleye powder and countless millions of rounds were loaded by Military and Commercial plants with 5/BE over the 230 ball bullet.

If you want to duplicate that load with 220 - 230 grains cast bullets, then 4.5/BE will give that to you. 5/BE under the same cast bullet will put you over the original hardball specs. I think that was the OP's question.

[35remington]

Well, my considerable number of chronographed rounds indicate that 5 grains is much, much closer to original ball specs with any 230 grain than any lighter charge. I would suggest that less than 5 grains will get you less than standard ball ballistics. See post #3 above for corroboration.

FWIW.

[Animal]

Lyman tops out the charge for this particular bullet at 5.0, producing 815fps from a 5in test barrel. This sounds like a reasonable reproduction of ball loads on the softer side of "standard". That is if Lyman's published velocities are corresponding to real-world testing. I've heard complaints that Lyman's velocities are considerably lower than what is often produced. I can't help but wonder if that is a factor that will come into play.
Judging by the detailed information in post #3 (although a jacketed 230gr was used), I'm inclined to believe Lyman's 815fps is a low estimation of realistic velocity.

[35remington]

It is not.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I'll just echo that with a cast hardball duplication bullet, 4.5 grains of BE is the ticket. I also like that same charge with the 200 grain H&G SWC. It's sorta hard to screw up a .45 ACP load if you use full weight bullets and 4.5 of Bullseye.

[Animal]

Thanks for the input folks. I tested 3.8-4.8gr today. I didn't want to test any higher without a chrono. All rounds did well, but 4.5-4.8 deserve a second look. Recoil was softer than I had expected and accuracy was probably just as good as Red Dot. The powder seems to meter quiet nicely. Hopefully I'll be able to chrono soon. So far it isn't hard to see why this powder has been so popular for so long with 45acp.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for the input folks. I tested 3.8-4.8gr today. I didn't want to test any higher without a chrono. All rounds did well, but 4.5-4.8 deserve a second look. Recoil was softer than I had expected and accuracy was probably just as good as Red Dot. The powder seems to meter quiet nicely. Hopefully I'll be able to chrono soon. So far it isn't hard to see why this powder has been so popular for so long with 45acp.

Bullseye has been around for a very long time and has always given excellent results in a wide variety of handgun rounds. It is just as serviceable today as it was generations ago. It is common thinking to believe that newer is always better, but in the case of Bullseye that does not hold up.

Bullseye powder is what I use in the 32 S&W Long, 32-20, 9mm, 38 S&W, 38 Special, 44 Special, 44 Magnum light loads, 45 ACP and 45 Colt. I recently bought two 8 lbs kegs of the stuff.

I still use 2400 for full snort 357 and 44 Magnum loads. I have some Unique and AA5 around the shop, but when they are gone, I won't replace them.

[Animal]

I almost bought an 8lb jug of it when I saw it. Over the last 2 years I've been trying to find it locally and in places I frequent in Texas. I thought it was as good as extinct. I restrained myself to 2lb since I haven't had a chance to try it. I didn't want to find out that it wasn't as good as all the hype after shelling out big bucks. I have a feeling I'll be going back for that 8lb jug.

[Char-Gar]

I almost bought an 8lb jug of it when I saw it. Over the last 2 years I've been trying to find it locally and in places I frequent in Texas. I thought it was as good as extinct. I restrained myself to 2lb since I haven't had a chance to try it. I didn't want to find out that it wasn't as good as all the hype after shelling out big bucks. I have a feeling I'll be going back for that 8lb jug.

Bulleye was brought out in 1913 and countless billions of rounds have been loaded with the stuff at arsenals, commercial ammo plants and handloaders around the world. Has to be something more that "hype" after all that time.

It has been and continues to be a very scarce item, but it is coming out and being sold if a fellow looks and waits long enough. It took me two years of searching to find my 8 lb jugs.

[M-Tecs]

Bullseye was introduced by Laflin & Rand in 1898 http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/GeneralReference/L&R-Smokeless.pdf page 38. It was the original load for the 45 ACP.

L&R Bullseye was introduced in 1898 to replace Revolver Smokeless. This is one of those powders that had several types. There were two versions of Bullseye, the first of which was known as Bullseye #1 or “dust” Bullseye. Two different sources refer to this being the “sweepings” or screenings left over from the manufacture of Infallible, with very fine irregular triangular or diamond shaped grains.1 Close examination of two samples indicate that it was half moon kernels created similarly to Infallible but cut so thin as to create incomplete rounds. L&R Bullseye #2 was supposed to have been brought out in 1904 as small round black discs .038” dia. X .003”, ostensibly because there were insufficient quantities of #1 to meet demand. See further discussion under “Suspicions”. It contained 40% NG. Four grains of Bullseye was the normal load for the .45 (long) Colt revolver. This Bullseye #2 is what we identify today as Bullseye, and this author believes that it has not changed formula since its introduction in 1898. It went to DuPont in 1907 and to Hercules in 1912. Bullseye, Unique, and Infallible were all made from the same formula, the only difference being granulation.2 It is still manufactured by Alliant in 2007.

[Char-Gar]

I am familiar with the information that traces Bulleye back to 1898 and believe it to be more or less accurate, but I took the 1913 date from Alliants web site. My assumption is that is when it was first offered by Hercules Powder, to which Alliant is the successor, to wit:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/bullseye.aspx