38 Special Wad Cutter only Barrel ?

[Johnch]

OK I was not sure where to put this thread
I was sorting through some boxes of reloading and casting stuff my Uncle gave me just before he passed away
A lot of odds & ends and some junk
But also some nice stuff

Last nigh I was looking through a box of 1911 parts and I found a barrel in a nice box that looks to have been made for holding a barrel
The label on the box is 99% shredded so no help there

But in the box was a 1911 barrel ( I tried it in one of my slides to make sure)
On the barrel it reads 38 Special Wad Cutter
No makes name , or anything else

I know my Uncle shot in pistol matches in the late 60's
So he may have gotten it then

No mag's expect 45 ACP in the box
So My question ...were 38 Special barrels something that just didn't work well and the idea faded away ?

Also ....I would really like to try the barrel out
But I have never seen a 38 Special mag .....so to see I tried the 38 Specials wad cutters in a 38 Super mag and they fit

Would a 38 Super mag work ?
And any clue what spring weight I would need if I try the barrel out ?

Thanks
John

[Outpost75]

The .38 wadcutter conversions used a .38 Super magazine.

If your barrel has the standard locking lug configuration of your .45 ACP barrel and functions as a locked-breech gun, try it with flush seated wadcutters, 3 grains of Bullseye and the standard 16 pound GI .45 or .38 Super recoil spring. If the barrel was modified, removing one or more locking lugs, it may not fit your slide. Some conversions were straight blowback, and suited only for light loads. The one I had years ago was simply a rechambered .38 Super barrel and used .38 Super mags and recoil spring. These are pleasant to shoot and accurate pistols.

[hendere]

Fun stuff, I wasn't aware of these.

[tazman]

Now that really interests me. I think I might like to find one of those. I always liked the 1911 design and I really love the 38 special. Sounds like it might be a good combination.

[Preacher Jim]

Colt made a 38spc national match dedicated slide and special magazines they are basically a blow back have special second spring to cushion recoil they shoot well strictly wadcutter gun.

[country gent]

I have a 1911 38 wadcutter gun built with a 6" barrel. It shoots extremely well. There were 2 styles of these a blow back version that didnt use the locking lugs and the version built by the AMU that locked up. The blow back version used a 16 lb spring or there abouts, My lock up gun uses a 6-7 lb spring. The mags I have have a 2 piece follower in them also. Mags were diffrent between blow back and lock up guns also. In the 1911 it is a wad cutter only due to any bullet past the case is to long for the magazines. My best load is 2.6 grns bullseye with a 148 grn hornady hollow based wadcutter. This gives quarter sized 10 shot groups from bench at 25 yds. Bar sto made some very accurate 38 wadcutter barrels for the 1911. They may still. Its a great conversion or build up very light recoil very accurate.

[wv109323]

As stated there were two schools of thought on the .38 Special in the 1911 platform. Some fixed barrels and some linked barrels. One manufacturer used a ribbed chamber to hold the round in the chamber so more pressure could be built up to work the slide .I think that was Colt. Colt called theirs the Mid-Range National Match.
The pistolsmiths of the day converted a .38 Super to .38 Special. The breechface of the slide needed to be widened for the .38 Spec. rim. Magazines were also modified. Today magazines are quite expensive. I recently saw one on E-bay for $150.00.
The Army Marksmanship Unit developed a .38 pistol that was a .38 Special that was a rimless case with am extractor groove. That round was called the .38 AMU.
The .38 Special had feeding problems because the rim on the case caused uneven stacking of the cases in a magazine. A .45 magazine will not work
Though used for several years the .38 Special in three gun died out. The .38 WC is hard to keep accurate at fifty yards and hard to shoot because of the long barrel time due to slow velocity.
The barrel is probably valuable.

[Johnch]

Thanks for the information
I had never seen a 38 Special barrel
This one uses the locking lugs

I have some 38 Super mags and for grins , I think I will load a hundred or so rounds and give it a try

And in no way could I say I am a good off hand shooter
So my groups will.....well I will use a large sheet of backer to keep them all on it LOL

Thanks
John

[Frank46]

Smith & Wesson made a model 59? not sure of the model number which was strictly a 38 wadcutter pistol as well. Frank

[M-Tecs]

smith & wesson made a model 59? Not sure of the model number which was strictly a 38 wadcutter pistol as well. Frank

S&W 52. Much more than a model 59.

[Green Frog]

BE CAREFUL MIXING AND MATCHING 38 WADCUTTER PARTS IN A GOVERNMENT MODEL!!!

I put a "complete" Colt 38 Nat'l Match upper on a random frame and was having a grand time until a round came apart on firing and shot brass in all directions including through the magazine!! :oops: Fortunately this was the last round in the mag so no detonation, could have been worse. The brass splinter in the right lens of my shooting glasses got my attention! I was never able to satisfy myself with what actually went wrong and abandoned that whole project. Juse my experience, but there it is.:???:

Froggie

[country gent]

The model 52 were S&Ws answer t the amus and custom builders 1911 38 wad cutter guns. They were a blow back operation had an adjustable barrel bushing and were very accurate. But were also a little on the fussy side to ammo. When set up correctly proper link hood fitting locking lugs fitted, barrel lug fitted, and correctly fitted barrel bushing along with slide to frame fit. Another plus is a lighter better trigger can be done due to the light recoil not "jarring" sears and parts around. Not alot but a little. There may be some small issues with the ejection port on 45s due to the 38 case being close to full loaded round overall length still when ejected, if not opened up and lowered a little. My bar sto barrel is on the tight side chamber shoots good but sizing loading is more critical due to this.

[Char-Gar]

Although there is a little dispute on who was the first, gunsmiths began converting Colt 38 Supers to 38 Special before WWII. There was a Pistolsmith in El Paso named Peters whom I believe was the first to do so and he continued to do such work until shortly before his death in the 80s.

They were produced in the hayday of Bulleye pistol shooting which required three legs to the match;

1. Service Pistol - Which was of course the Colt Goverment Model or a match version thereof.

2. 22 - which was most often a automatic, but Colt did produce their Service Ace auto, which mimicked the GM. However the Service Ace would not compete in the accuracy department with dedicated 22 made by Colt and High Standard.

3. Center Fire - which was any centerfire pistol. Some chose to shoot the 45 GM in this leg of the match, as they didn't want to change feel of the pistol. Others used 38 Special revolvers by Colt and Smith and Wesson because of their light recoil and sterling accuracy of the round.

This last Center Fire leg was what gave rise to 1911 pistols converted or made for 38 Special round. This provided the same feel as the GM, yet provided the low recoil and accuracy of the 38 Special round. Gunsmiths like Peters first converted 38 Specials and later Colt produced their Gold Cup Auto in 38 Special as well as Smith and their Model 52s.

I have had several of these over the years, including one made by Peters. They all worked within their design limitations. They were made for the 38 Special Wadcutter target round. I would be very very cautious about trying to soup them up. At any rate, none of them every managed to stay around very long as I didn't find them interesting enough to keep and Smith and Wesson K-38 and Colt Officers Model would shoot just as well without flinging cases hither, thither and yon.

BTW: A few years before he died, I had Peters make up a 45 Colt full match pistol for me with a matching slide, barrel, and ejector for 38 Special. He had not made one in quite some time, but still had all the jigs and tools needed. I was living in El Paso at the time. I never shot the thing and a few years after his death, sold the whole thing to a collector for a nice profit.

[ReloaderFred]

The .38 Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU) round wasn't a truly rimless case. It used the same semi-rimmed design and extractor groove as the .38 Super. Some of the Federal brass was simply headstamped ".38", but the Winchester brass was headstamped differently, but I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what it was. The Federal boxes I had were regular .38 Special Wadcutter boxes, with a factory applied glued label over the .38 Special labels.

Hope this helps.

Fred