Lee C309-150F Mold - What can I expect?

[bedbugbilly]

I recently purchased a Winchester 94 "Ranger" in 30/30 - been wanted to add 30/30 reloading for a while as I had been collecting brass, dies, etc. - you know . . . buy all the stuff and THEN buy the gun!

So . . . I have always been a "low tech caster" for the last 50 + years. I have all brands of molds, use an old Ideal 10# pot, bottom pour Lyman ladle over a LP hot plate. I actually have two pots - one for pure lead for muzzle loaders and the other for my "range lead". I usually buy range lead from members on here and it works well in all my handguns and my 8mm Mauser and 357 Handi Rifle.

I am going to order an Accurate 31-115K DC mold which casts a 115 gr. flat nose - this is the style for the old 30 WCF "short range" cartridge - a plain base boolit. I won't be pushing these fast and will usually be shooting at 50 yards or so.

I want to try a heavier boolit as well though but after spending the $$ on the Accurate mold, just want to possibly try a $20 Lee mold in something heavier. I'm looking at the Lee C309-150F which is the gas check flat nose. I have the gas checks, a 309 and a 311 Lee push through sizer.

My question is for those of you that have this mold or could possibly give me an idea of what I could expect the Lee 309 molds to drop at in terms of boolit diameter?

I have a number of Lee molds and depending on the mold and the range lead, some drop right at the mold size - example would be for the 358 molds I have, some drop right at 358 - others more than 358 - usually about 359 - 360 at times.

With the Lee 309 and range lead, am I expecting too much to get them to drop around 311?

If this is too much to expect, then can anyone suggest an Accurate or NOE mold that would be a good FN design to use in a 30/30 lever gun that will feed well and shoot well? I've read that some size their boolits to 309 to use in a 30/30 with a 308 bore and yet others use a 311 all the time in their 30/30s. I'd like to be able to use a 311 - I've loaded up some dummy rounds with a 311 size boolit and they chamber just fine in my rifle. I'm not going to be hunting or pushing a 150 - 160 or so gr. boolit hard but would like to be able to get a DC mold if possible with one gas check and one plain base cavity if possible just to play with the two boolits. Or, if the boolits from the Lee dropped at 309 or 310 or so, I could size them to the closest size (309 or lap out the sizing die to 310) and shoot them that way either PB or with a GC depending on what the powder charge is? For now, if the Lee 309 mold would work, it would be a cheap mold to play with and then if it worked good out of my rifle, invest in a higher quality mold from either NOE or Accurate.

Thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated. I'm just trying to get the molds while I'm in AZ so I'll be ready to cast and get going when I get back to MI. Thanks.

Jim

[Ed_Shot]

I don't think anyone can predict what your mold is going to produce with your alloy. I really like the Lee C309-150-F. My '06 likes it sized .309 while my winchester and marlin 30-30's do best with .310. My mold drops at .311+ but that's no guarantee for your future purchase.

[Tatume]

The only better choice would be the Lee C309-170-F. Everyone I know who uses this mold (including me) reports excellent accuracy.

[dead dog]

I would get the 170, it was the first rifle mold I used, Got it in 1982, single cavity and still use it

[Shiloh]

With the Lee 309 and range lead, am I expecting too much to get them to drop around 311?


My guess, from experience is that .311 from this mold is a gamble. My .309 180 dropped at .309. Same with the .309 200R
Lyman 311299 dropped at .310 max. To small for my need. All the molds listed above had noses that dropped .298-.299.
Again, to small. My Lyman 31141 drops at .311. Perfect for my sons .30-30.

At 18$ take a chance.

Shiloh

[.455 Webley]

Another point to consider is that the current Lyman cast handbook lists a lot of data for the Lee 150-309. Mine cast at .310 from pure Linotype, but your results will vary.

[Hickok]

.309"- .3095" with COWW.

The 170 Lee FN is a great boolit for the 30/30.

[P Flados]

I have both the 150 and 170 Lee molds.

I just bought 30-30 dies to load for a friend. I found that the 170 seated for crimping in the crimp groove was too long for his win 94. Choices seem to be seat deeper (does not sound good for the tube magazine), use only the 150, or trim brass to make it work. Any thoughts?
:

[leadman]

The Lee 170gr is a more accurate boolit in my guns but that can change with a different gun. The Lee 113gr RFN GC and the 120gr RN GC are very accurate boolits and cast very well. I use both in my M-1 carbines where the 120gr feeds a little better. One gun likes both, the other just likes the 120gr RN. These drop around .310" to .311". I also shoot them in my Contender 300 Whisper carbine.
The Ranger if I remember right is a model available in the 1970 or so. Should be new enough that the barrel is .308" to .309".
The Lyman 311041 is the classic 30-30 flat nose gas check hunting. I even shot this in my 1903a3 in a 200 yard vintage military rifle match. I use it in my Contender carbine 30-30 Win for hunting elk.

[aspangler]

You're in luck. I just cast some of those in 50/50 coww/pure. As cast .311. weight after size and lube w/gc= 156gr. I load these with 14 gr 2400. Works great for me. The Lee 170 works great too. 30.5 gr IMR4064 behind the 170. Hope this helps.

[Hickok]

I have both the 150 and 170 Lee molds.

I just bought 30-30 dies to load for a friend. I found that the 170 seated for crimping in the crimp groove was too long for his win 94. Choices seem to be seat deeper (does not sound good for the tube magazine), use only the 150, or trim brass to make it work. Any thoughts?
:Something is amiss. I have a Win. model 94 30/30 that was made in 1948, and the lee 170 FN feeds smooth as glass through the rifle.

[Hickok]

P Flatos, I checked my 30/30 rounds with 170 Lee FN, cases are trimmed min. @ 2.029" and my over all length seated to crimp groove is 2.560" Don't know if this is a help or not.


161177

[FredBuddy]

My Lee 150 drops wheelweight lead at .311. I've learned here to get the mold, cast with it and see what you get. Too small then powder coat - too big then use your sizers. I've since graduated to powdercoating the Lee and a Lyman 311008 and size them to .311 (make sure your expander plug is suitable for the larger diameter of lead boolits). Both are working just fine in 6 30-30's and 2 30-06's--------and I'm having fun doing it.

The quest never ends.

[gwpercle]

I have an older two cavity 170 grain mould ( I prefer the 170) cast 50-50 COWW and range scrap it drops .309.5. I size to 309 and my winchester model 94 likes it.
You may not need a .311 size in your 30-30, mine doesn't. Try some at .309 and see how it goes.
Gary

[45-70 Chevroner]

I'm shooting a RCBS 30-180 FN in my 1925 25" octogon barrel 94 Win. It drops from the mold at .310 and a 190 grains, I size and lube to .310 and seated to the crimp grove. That boolit loves Reloader 7. 3" groups at a hundred. It cycles with no problems through that old girl. That boolit will not group at all through my TC super 14.

[Outpost75]

Have you actually cast your chamber yet? What is the neck diameter of the chamber? How large a bullet can you actually chamber when seated into a sized case and extract without debulleting? Does your 94 have a throat or ball seat ahead of the chamber, and if so, what is the diameter of the unrifled portion before the rifling starts? Bore and groove dimensions of the barrel mean nothing. PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you some samples of Accurate 31-155D to try, which will engrave on the forepart like chambering Eley Tenex in a Winchester 52 match rifle and shoot bughole groups at 50 yards in my ca. 1942 vintage Model 94 using 11 grs. of Alliant #2400.

[sghart3578]

My Lee 309-150 is probably the most accurate bullet in my Marlin. It drops right at .310" with my alloy. This has proven to be too small for my rifle so I Beagled the mold and sized and gaschecked my bullets at .311".

Now this rifle hits a 6" gong at 100 yards all day long without breaking a sweat.

(I don't shoot groups at a paper target at more that 25 yards. In my opinion it is a waste of lead and powder for a hunting rifle.)

[rbuck351]

I have had nothing but bad luck with Lee nose rider molds. One casts noses at .295 another at .297 and one at .298. I guess I'm going to try PC to see if I can get the noses big enough to work. I have a Lyman Loverin style .311 150gr that will shoot consistent 1 1/2" at 100yds from my H&R. NOE makes a copy of this and his molds cast what they say.(311-152 RN 2Cav $79). This is a copy of Lymans 311466. Certainly not as cheap as Lee but you don't have to guess at what size it will cast. I have nothing but good luck with the 5 or 6 NOE molds I have.

[GooseGestapo]

I've got two Lee 309-150gr FNGC and a 170gr. One of the 150's is a single cavity I got 40yrs ago, the other a two cavity I got ~20 ago after giving the single cavity to my older brother.
They all cast to .311-.312". I found that they are more accurate through ALL of my .30cal rifles at .311 sizing.
I reaquired my single cavity mold as well as my brothers Winchester M94 after he died. I also have a later model M94 XTR. Neither feed the 170gr well. Feed the 150's perfectly. The nose section of the 170's is just a tad too long to feed from the magazine. My Marlin/Glenfield M30 feeds the 170gr ok, but I prefer the 150.
The only 150 we've ever recovered was from a doe a coworker of my brother shot while hunting in up-state NY back in the late '80's. He shot it with a 70yd "Texas heart shot". Bullet was recovered from under hide of front shoulder. Load? 7.5gr of Unique for ~ 1,200fps!
Cast the 150 (mine run 158gr for newer 2-cav, 160gr for older single) from 50-50 ww-pd with a tad of 95-5 tin/antimony solder added and they'll out perform ANY jacketed bullet you'll find!

Added: I prefer to tumble lube the still warm unsized bullets. Then size and lube in Lyman#450, lube with SPG.
The aforementioned deer was shot wit TL bullet, unsized! My older brother had been using them fo jack rabbits in New Mexico (Holliman AFB). Coworker was using them for snowshoe hares. Deer was target of opportunity. They do require resighting rifle (elevation).

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks all for taking the time to post - it's greatly appreciated!

After reading all the information you kind brothers have left, I think I will order both the 150 gr and 170 gr molds to try. I realize that the size they drop is going to be whatever it is but it will also maybe give me the opportunity to play with what I'm casting with and maybe get a little more technical. Plus, it might be an excellent excuse to try powder coating as well. An old, old dog can learn new tricks . . I think? :-) If for some reason they don't work out well with my rifle, I can pass them on to someone who can use them. At the price they are, it is worth the gamble.

I have had a number of Winchester 94 30/30s pass through my hands during the years and I kick myself for not hanging on to one of them. The one I wanted the most was my father-in-laws - he bought it in the late 1920s or very early '30s. He used to let me use it for deer hunting in the UP when I went with him after my wife and I first got married. When they finally broke up their home and they went to Florida for retirement, he gave it to his son (my only b-in-l who is a complete waste) who has always spent more money than he made - married 4 times, etc. He immediately sold it for the $$$. Had I known how it was going to work out, I would have paid my f-in-l top money for it as it was a nice old vintage Winnie plus it was his. I finally picked up a Winchester 94 "Ranger" a month or so ago - not what I consider a fine vintage Winnie but it will be fun to load for and shoot. Meanwhile, my search goes on for a truly nice vintage 94 if I ever find one that is reasonably priced.

Thank you all again - your input has been very helpful! Greatly appreciated!

Jim

[P Flados]

From the responses, sounds like some win 94s will not cycle unless real close to the 2.550" SAAMI max.

If others cycle the Lee 170 with no special effort, there is probably more than a little variance.

Not surprising given that over 7,500,000 were cranked out over such a long time with several revamps.

I checked the Lee 170s and found right at 0.550" from top of groove to tip.

This leaves only 2.000" for the case to stay at 2.550".

The once-fired cases I have are at 2.044". I did not trim them, but even a trim to the std min value of 2.020" would probably not be enough.

With the really long neck, trimming an extra 0.020" really does not seem that bad. I just did not know if this was a general practice. Right now the inventory of cases is not good (22 on hand), so I am reluctant to start trimming. With more cases, a batch of shorties sounds like it would be worth a try.

[Hickok]

Trimming a neck shorter that minimum really doesn't hurt anything. Of course, you will have to reset you seating die for the crimp and boolit depth, but it is no big thing.

[ShooterAZ]

My Lee C309-150F casts at just over .311 with 1/3/96 alloy (similar to WW). I size to .311 and it feeds just fine in my Win M94 saddle ring carbine. This boolit is one of my favorites, very accurate with most powders I have tried. I have the Lee 170F also, but unfortunately my mold casts <.310, closer to .309. It's one of the "old style" molds. I may have to get a newer one and see what it does. With most of the boolits I have tried in this rifle, accuracy was better with boolits sized to .310 or .311.

[trixter]

I shoot this boolit in my 30-06 (a3-03) and my 300 Savage (Remington Bolt). I have been having good luck in the 30-06 but I am wanting to go a little faster, but I am at the bottom of the recommended powder charge so I have a ways to go with my testing. The weather has been so nasty here for so long, I have gotten so many irons in the fire that I need to slim down projects , and prioritize others, number 1 is get well from this dang flu. YUCK!

[TXGunNut]

I have both the 150 and 170 Lee molds.

I just bought 30-30 dies to load for a friend. I found that the 170 seated for crimping in the crimp groove was too long for his win 94. Choices seem to be seat deeper (does not sound good for the tube magazine), use only the 150, or trim brass to make it work. Any thoughts?
:

Depends on the rifle (chamber) of course but it seems to me the 30-30 likes to grow a bit. Trimming is important with my rifles for two reasons. #1, this cartridge seems to like to "stretch". #2, I prefer a very light crimp with this cartridge so uniform case length is essential.

Please keep us posted on that Accurate boolit. Was just reading about short range loads in the WACA journal and it sounds interesting.

[TXGunNut]

As you know, Jim, Lee 2-cav moulds are an excellent value....but I pay more for a haircut. If a 6-cav was available I'd seriously consider it. 2-cavs are getting better, but.....