"Is That Thing Loaded?"

[Hickory]

I've been debating whether to tell this story or not. But, I've decided to for three reasons, first the guy's not a member here, second, I'll not mention his name, and lastly it might keep someone from making the same mistake.

I got a call yesterday from a friend, he was straightening up his garage a bit and said he had some stuff he was going to throw out and asked if I wanted any of it. I said I'd come over and look at it.
After an hour of moving thing around, putting thing away and putting in a box a few things, for myself, thing he was going to pitch, we came upon his muzzleloader that he had left in the garage after the muzzleloading season.
As he picked it up, I asked, "Is that thing loaded?" he opened the frizzen and with a couple of careless swipes with with his finger to remove the powder from the pan he slapped the frizzen closed and pulled the trigger.
There was a very nice shower of sparks that went right into the pan, what happened next was like slow motion, there was a sputter of fire on the outside of the pan that traveled counterclockwise until it almost reached the barrel and died, or at least it looked like it died. At this point, everything went back to normal speed. There was a flash in the pan and a BOOM.
The garage was full of smoke and I was out the door, with my friend behind me. I said, "A simple yes or no would have been enough."
He found the caulking gun and a shingle and I went up on the roof to plug the hole. I didn't want him to do it because he's pushing 80 years old and I didn't trust him to do it and not get hurt.
Oh well, no one was hurt, the roof won't leak, he assured me that will never happen again and I had to clean his gun, because somehow he twisted his wrist exiting the garage.

[Hogdaddy]

I always check with a ram rod ,, Glad no one was hurt ; )
H/D

[725]

Ram rod tells a lot! Well, even for a dangerous maneuver like pulling the trigger to see if it's loaded, at least it was pointed in a safe direction. Glad nobody got hurt or killed, which was a very real possibility.

[Pipefitter]

I was at a gun show about 6 weeks ago, the guy standing in line right behind me brought in 2 muzzleloading pistols. The guy checking firearms at the door had no clue on how to tell if they were loaded or not.......

[True.grit]

Every gun is loaded until you know FOR SURE its not. Thank you for sharing this. It is a sobering reality that we all can make a mistake. Myself included!!

[mooman76]

It's good you brought it up. Allot of guys buy used MLs and they usually aren't loaded but it isn't uncommon for one to be loaded. Now the worse thing here is you can't just shoot it on the range because you don't know what they loaded in it. I was lucky. I have bought allot of Used MLs in the past and it never dawned on me to check to see if they was still loaded. I'm sure I knew some weren't but I don't remember checking.

[rancher1913]

years ago I went to a gun shop in the large metropolis of Crozet, Va (back then the local drunks passed out in the middle of the main road and everybody knew to just swerve around them, the drunks all lived in the abandoned apple storage high rise) anyhow this gun shop was owned by an ex army ranger and was supposed to be a knowledgeable fellow. took him a 32 automatic that my grandfather had brought back from ww2 that liked to fire without provocation and I told the man that it was dangerous and asked if it could be made safe to use. he promptly loaded the clip, shoved it home and pulled the slide back to cock the gun, why I will never know, and as the slide went home the gun discharged in the store and the bullet ricocheted around, scared the **** out of me but he never flinched. long story short never trusted him with any other guns and he went out of business fairly quickly.

[oldfart1956]

You fellers wouldn't believe how many loaded muzzleloaders there are in the racks at gun shops and especially gun shows. I'd wager about 2 out of 20 are still loaded. And as mentioned, priming powder is not required to set these flinters off. I've shown that to a number of folks in our group. And if that percussion gun has a bit of residue on the nipple from a pulled cap I wouldn't trust that either. Many of the dealers aren't all that familiar with the muzzleloaders so don't even know how to check. Checking with the ramrod is a good idea but it's not foolproof. Those patent breeches hold more than enough powder in that chamber to do serious damage and the ramrod isn't going to go down in there. A broken off jag might fit in there! Be careful. Audie...the Oldfart.

[Mk42gunner]

Shortly after I retired, my best friend's dad asked me to look at his grandson's inline muzzle loader because, "Something's wrong with it."

Ramrod said it was probably loaded, I had no idea how long the breech plug was supposed to be. At least he gave me the wrench to take it out with.

Evidently someone, (no one would own up to it) tried to clean it with strips of paper towels. I found about two inches of solidly packed paper towel in the .50 cal barrel. No powder and I don't remember driving a ball out, but it would have definitely kept it from firing.

Robert

[M-Tecs]

In the past two years I have built 8 smokeless muzzleloaders based on the Remington 700 ML's. Out of the eight three were loaded when purchased. One at a gun show, one off GunBroker and one from a police auction.

[therealhitman]

I'd wager about 2 out of 20 are still loaded.

Dang! That's nearly 1 in 10!

[Petrol & Powder]

Is that thing loaded?

It was......

[Rustyleee]

A simple yes or no... I'm sorry but that's funny!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Why would someone leave a muzzle loader loaded? One reason would be if he had belatedly realized that loading it with smokeless powder or three or four bullets wasn't the bright idea it seemed. Better late than never, but unless the person who loaded it is present and in a sense) trustworthy, you should always draw the charge rather than fire it.

It sounds like the charge in the OP's case had got damp into the bargain. Not that that is much help if the perpetrator lowers it to the horizontal to look at the curious sparkling.

In Napoleonic times for night-time naval landings by stealth, petty officers would sometimes go around blowing out the men's primings. But it is far from certain to work. French skirmishers used to load undersized balls, and strike the butt on the ground to avoid having to ram and to get a few powder grains through the touch-hole. It wasn't a thing a man on his own would want to rely on. But in some circumstances a volley with 60% of the muskets going off was better than letting the enemy have the first shot.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

well I can admit to putting my ML in the corner after hunting thinking was going out again , then putting it away just to find it was still loaded , I remember running a dry patch with my range rod that didn't have the markings for that gun and thought well that was clean and free of oil

so I pointed it down range capped it to clear the flash channel and expecting a pop got a boom then I realized I never did get back out hunting and it had been loaded since November

they are all loaded guns all the time always a safe direction

[Old Scribe]

Thanks for the post. We all need to be reminded every so often to treat every gun as though it was loaded.

[Battis]

A friend of mine recently found a double barrel 12 ga muzzle loading caplock shotgun in the attic eaves. The British proof marks and inspector's marks on it were used between 1813 - 1855. I'd say this shotgun was from the 1850s. His house was built in 1860. There was only one hammer on one barrel. I dropped a dowel down each barrel and sure enough the one with the hammer was loaded. I'm in the process of unloading it now. You never know...

[mooman76]

Why would someone leave a muzzle loader loaded?

.

People take them hunting and may intend to go out again. They don't want to fire it because then they have to clean it. They don't want to pull the bullet either. I myself would probably not leave it loaded unless I was for sure going back out and I would likely mark it in some way that it is still loaded. I'm forgetful and my memory isn't getting better as I get older and I find myself getting sidetracked easier these days. No where was I? Oh, it's very common to find the real old MLs loaded since they used to have them loaded and ready in case they were needed in a hurry like for protection.

[rfd]

a good post and a good reminder to all never to take any of this firearm stuff casually.

i ALWAYS leave a MARKED rod down the tube with an oiled patch. the marked ring on the rod is even with the muzzle and that tells me the chamber is empty,

[carolina sorillo]

I'm sure, if we're all honest, a majority of us have had at least one AD. Of course I never have![smilie=1: It ain't hard to do.


Now Hickory,

Tell the truth, the REAL reason you patched the hole in the roof is because "the shooter" was too busy cleaning his drawers out!! An unexpected KABOOM will ruin a good pair of drawers faster than anything I know of!!:bigsmyl2:

C.S.

ps. Glad nobody was hurt!

[Bruntson]

Your lucky that surprised Boom didn't give your elderly friend a heart attack.

[Hickory]

Your lucky that surprised Boom didn't give your elderly friend a heart attack.
His health is good, no heart problems.
It's his mind that's not as sharp as it used to be, he has more stamina then I've got and he's tough as nails. I'd say he's in better shape than most 79 year old men.
I don't think he'd ever die of a heart attack, God might send down a chariot of fire to get him when it's time.

[Skypilot39b]

kinda sounds like checking for a gas leak with a match....glad everyone was safe.

[Whitesmoke]

Until a few years ago my friend ran a gunsmith shop for many years. The subject of "forgot it was loaded" rifles came up one day.

He commented upon the high number of times customers presented a rifle ,said it was unloaded, and when he checked the firearm, it WAS indeed loaded.

Given our Australia firearms laws it is illegal to store a loaded firearm, but the law never stopped a bullet.

I taught my boy if ever handed a firearm to check the chamber for a load. My firearms safety was taught to me in the army and latter the SSAA -like your NRA.

Before you are permitted to leave a range firing point- you must proove " unloaded" to the RO by displaying an open action to him /her.

[country gent]

I have had several family "hierlooms" brought to me to be "cleaned" up that were loaded and had probably been passed down thru a couple generations that way. Back then they were kept loaded ( predators raiding the livestock, 2 legged predators raiding the home steads ect) and no one thought to question it, and that fact was lost along the way of traveling thru the family. A patched ball thats been in place for 100+ years can be a chore to remove. Its better to be safe than sorry and its quick and easy to check muzzle loaders with the ram rod, or vissually check modern arms vissually looking in the chambers.

[victorfox]

That's scary. These days I read on the paper a grandfather (stupid enough to point it to anything not intended to be shot) pointed an air rifle to his little grandson and somehow playing with the kid shot the child in chest. Result: Dead kid, jailed elder.I was raised in a house where all guns were loaded all the time and all the time treated as if they were load even when they were not. My old father taught us well and we never had any incident.

[smokeywolf]

Dad was a part time, and for a year or two, a full time gunsmith. All the time I was growing up there were pistols on night stands and rifles standing in many corners. The rule was they might or might not be loaded, but all were treated as loaded. The other rule was, if I wanted to handle one I had to call Mom or Dad to supervise. On occasion I would, and one or the other would drop whatever they were doing and come watch me. I was always given an attaboy for following the rule and reminded that as long as I followed that rule I could never get in trouble and that it made them feel very good knowing that they could trust me.
I also knew that if I ever did go behind their back and got caught, I would never touch another firearm again until I moved out of their house.

I always followed the rules and no-one in our family ever had a negligent discharge.

[DIRT Farmer]

Brings to mind Mark Twains writing on the deadlyest gun, the empty old musket.

[John Taylor]

Many years ago I was stuck being range officer at a black powder shoot. I watched an old man load his rifle while I was talking to a few other gents and noticed he never ran his ramrod down the bore, only the short starter. he picked up the rifle and started to point it at his target and I yelled at him to stop. He ask what was wrong and I told him he did not ram the ball all the way down. He started to argue and said he did so finally I said for my sake please run the rod down again. He had a funny look when it stopped about 3" in.

[doc1876]

my ex was an avid shopper, and we hit every antique mall and store in 30 states. (wore me out)
so anyway, at every opportunity to check out a muzzleloader, I threw a ramrod down the barrels, and most of them were indeed loaded. Loved telling the proprietor, as they usually went ghost white.