Purchasing a collection of guns

[plus1hdcp]

I apologize should this not be in the correct forum but I couldn't figure out where to post. So here I go.

I have the opportunity to purchase a couple of collections. These are not collectable weapons just good solid shotguns, pistols and hunting rifles. There are a couple of these which I would prefer to flip to offset the ones I really am interested in owning for my own collection. The only requirements placed upon me by the buyer(s) is that I take the entire collection (which is not a problem) and I offer a fair price. They already know that I will not be offering a retail price. I also want to treat them right as well as myself as these purchases will open up other opportunities for future purchases in the area.

What resource(s) would you suggest me use to calculate a fair offer? I have seen the Blue Book of Gun Values and one from Gun Digest before but a current version.

Thank you for taking the time to read and hopefully respond to my question.

[Beagle333]

I like to got to gunbroker.com and after you login, you can use the "advanced" tab and view the "completed items" and see what things actually sold for (instead of what everybody is asking) and that gives me a better idea of what folks are paying for a particular gun. As you probably know, you can just type something like "Blued 6" GP100 for sale" into your browser and it will show you many for sale at different places, but you'll never know what the buyer accepted.

[buckwheatpaul]

Gunbroker is a good source and I double check with the Blue Book of Gun Values.....the new book is due out in April I think so the current will give you a good second source....plus you can show the individual some examples....IMHO

[GhostHawk]

I think you also have to remember that for the average person there are not many options. Around here every sporting goods store that will buy guns has the reputation of offering 1/4 of its worth, and putting it for sale at 4x what they paid. Brick and mortar stores have bills to pay. And they might sit on that investment for years before selling it.

The owners do not want the hassle of trying to sell them over the course of a year. If it was me take what you think the collection is worth and divide by half at least. If there are very many you don't want or which are not in good condition make that a third.

[contender1]

I have bought collections in the past, and will do so in the future. I too use both the Blue Book & GunBroker. I use the completed auction feature as well.
The one thing that is hard to tell on GB is the condition of sold guns. With the Blue Book, you have a grading system to follow.

Next,,, I carefully inspect each & every firearm & write down details on it as I inspect it.

Then I add a grading % to each description. Good proper grading is a key factor in values.

I go back & use the Blue Book for values. I write that number down. Then I total the amount for all guns. I deduct 40% from the total,,, and offer this number to the seller. I explain how & why I came to that number. One of the reasons I use 40% is that quite often,,, many average guns, or off name brands just do not sell quickly unless you are willing to accept less. So while I may give 40% less for X gun, I may sell it at a loss to make up for getting 10% under my quote for another gun.

Be honest & fair,,, & you'll develop a reputation & get more collections.

[M-Tecs]

Blue book minus 25% for highly desirable items and minus up to 50% for less desirable items.

[Hardcast416taylor]

It still boils down to, `How BAD does the new buyer REALLY want that firearm`?Robert

[mozeppa]

DO NOT SELL GUNS TO GANDER MOUNTAIN!

even unfired nib ....they grade them all one or two grades lower than they really are then offer you 75% of that grade ....maybe.

[kywoodwrkr]

Blue book minus 25% for highly desirable items and minus up to 50% for less desirable items.

I was going to suggest Blue Book -30% across the board since you are buying as a lot.
But the 50% would work in many situations.
Blue Book to me is someones pipe dream.
They're in the business of selling a book, not firearms.

[RogerDat]

I don't know but I don't envy you. Always seems like there is someone that "knows" the "real" value of something that they are either not selling or don't have the money to purchase. Being able to show and explain why and how you arrived at the price in a fair manner is the best defense and approach in general.

That and knowing when to fold stakes and walk to avoid overpaying. Think that would be my problem, I want some of the items so it would be too easy to convince myself that I have those keepers that should really be valued at what I would pay retail and all the other stock is somehow "bonus".

I would add having looked at some arms being sold off from an estate type acquisition that I looked them over better than he did. I saw the repaired crack at the stock neck that diminished the value well below the asking price. And some heavy wear that was enough to push condition to below asking price. Not by a huge amount but enough that my wallet stayed put. See that a lot in commodity items. Price people need for a "basic" item can be too close to what a new one can be purchased for. Think basic ML or C&B revolver, Or Mossberg 500 Shotgun. Not very expensive new so hard to get value from used, why not just spend 10% more and buy new?

[opos]

On little "aside"...My wife is a serious collector and dealer in a particular form of antique glassware...she buys many estate collections...breaks them down in many cases and in others sells them as a complete collection...when she began buying estate collections some years back it was common for folks (friends as well) to have her come in and "price" all the items....often 2 things happen...she'd price things and the seller would then cherry pick the collection and want the appraised value for a partial sale...the pricing my Wife did was based on the whole collection...the other thing that often happened was my Wife would evaluate a collection, make an offer and then have the seller "peddle her bid" around to other potential buyers as "I've got a standing offer of XXXX". and often my wife would not get the collection after doing the work.

She now goes into the situation with a written agreement..if the offer is all or none that's the terms...she never details what each item is worth...it's one price for the detailed list....if there are only a few items she will do individual written offers on those but is very cautious not to get trapped into too many. She also puts a specific short time basis on any offers...like one day. Either they are for sale or are not and she does not leave room for others to outbid her if the seller decides to "shop the bid"...she also will not make an offer where another dealer is already involved..figures what is good for her is good for other buyers.

Sellers and estate folks get confused and since they do not know how things work they think its just fine to get an offer and then peddle that offer around to try and better it....the dealers all know who they are and there is sort of an unwritten agreement to not get into the middle of someone elses negotiation.

I think guns would be very similar and perhaps more involved as there are many folks that just buy and sell as a hobby..

[dragon813gt]

Blue book minus 25% for highly desirable items and minus up to 50% for less desirable items.

I second this. If you are buying an entire collection I would deduct 50% across the board because there will be many that just won't sell if you go down that route. If you were only buying one than 25% off is acceptable. But since you're buying in bulk there is the whole bulk discount thing.

I don't let emotions get in the way. I offer a price and they can accept or deny it. At the end of the day it's a business transaction and I treat it as such. I'm only willing to pay a certain amount regardless of what the Blue Book says. If they want the price in the book they can attempt to sell it to the book. I can guarantee how that turns out :laugh:

[plus1hdcp]

Good information guys and the majority reinforces my thoughts.

[725]

See what similar exemplars are on sale for on the market.

[RustyReel]

Made a note to the wife that when I go not to sell my collection to you guys! Anybody here take 50% less than BlueBook for their collection. Just saying.........

[bob208]

if you are buying for resale then don't use gun broker. you will lose your butt. as others have said discount 50% if you are going to sell. don't allow anything for leather and very little on scopes or after market grips on hand guns.


don't worry about this being fair the people want to sell in one lump.

[dragon813gt]

Made a note to the wife that when I go not to sell my collection to you guys! Anybody here take 50% less than BlueBook for their collection. Just saying.........

If it's sold as one lot that's what I would expect. If they are sold individually then you will maximize your profits. There is a financial penalty for taking the easy route.

[contender1]

opos makes a good point. I forgot to mention that I do not share my evaluation sheet with the seller. I just make an offer,,, based upon my inspection. I also tell them that my offer is for the immediate sale & not good next week, or if any guns are removed from the collection. I do not let them know what I may be interested in personally, or whatever. If they are "shopping around" for the best deal,,, then call me back,,,, I go back, look things over, see if any are missing, or any changes,,, and tell them My offer is a now X amount. Usually about 5% less. Why? I had to make another trip & spend more time looking them over.

Too often, many people see a gun in a price guide & immediately feel their gun is exactly the same one as the highest priced one listed. They do NOT look at the details,,, nor consider condition. And then sellers want retail values from a person who has to buy where they can make a sale. Trying to sell takes time,,, and time is money. My expert opinion is worth something,,, as is my time doing the research.

Would I sell my collection at 50% of Blue Book? No,,, but my collection will not be sold as a lump lot. I have already done the homework on my collection, and I have a detailed description, and a proper grading percentage. When it comes time to move any of my collection,,, it'll be done where my family will have to work to receive the full amount. But I made their job a lot easier by having a proper record of all of my guns.

[dilly]

The only thing I would add is, if you are doing this often and considering continuing to do so, it is probably worthwhile to figure out when it's time to get an FFL. I won't speculate on where "the line" is, but it may behoove you to learn about that too, because it could very easily begin to look like you are in the business of buying and selling guns.

Edit: I just noticed you're in the gunsmithing forum, which likely means you're a gunsmith and you may already have the FFL. Sorry!

[nagantguy]

Looks like everyone gave good advice so far, I've bought entire collections and lost my butt, and some times it turned out alright. I have a hard time not falling in love with 1 or 3 or 5 and selling them in a timely manner........I did help a friend sell off for his father in laws collection , 90 + pieces I say helped, I cleaned, oiled put mags and accoutrements together, made lists, graded, priced for my help I was to get a killer deal on a Dan Wesson .357, went to this guy's house with two buyers, cash 8n hand, people I knew, and it was all gone, every piece for peanuts on the dollar and the Dan Wesson as well, he never even looked at the lists I'd made and for himself he kept only a beat up sks. No thanks, no compensation then later complained to other mutual friends that he got hosed on price.......so my help is no longer free, except to the close circle of family.

[bob208]

best place to sell is a gun auction by a auctioneer that sell guns. I am lucky to have one close to me
readings auction service. in Gettysburg Pa. no buyer premium they do online and phone bids and have their own ffl.

[plus1hdcp]

best place to sell is a gun auction by a auctioneer that sell guns. I am lucky to have one close to me
readings auction service. in Gettysburg Pa. no buyer premium they do online and phone bids and have their own ffl.

Not aware of a gun auction locally although I have seen some listed in auctions. This is a good avenue to keep in mind should the need arise.

[Coogs]

As stated before, search completed auctions on a REPUTABLE site to see what people are paying. What you offer then is up to you. JMHO, Coogs.

[DCP]

Ok guys I sure hope you boys are FFL because you just cross the line for profit.

Now with that being said I told the wife to show them the door with some of the offers you guys came up with.
I told her to take her time sell them 1 at a time
As for accessories I have hard to find manuals I paid 100.00 for.
Tripods 50.00-500.00.
A 1918 trench knife there asking 1700-1800 just for the sacberd.
Holsters I paid 250.00 up

Scopes 150.00 to 1000.00 easy. One guy wasn't even going to count those.

99% I have bought was under market value.

Who here would sell there collection for some of the prices here?

[mozeppa]

Ok guys I sure hope you boys are FFL because you just cross the line for profit.

Now with that being said I told the wife to show them the door with some of the offers you guys came up with.
I told her to take her time sell them 1 at a time
As for accessories I have hard to find manuals I paid 100.00 for.
Tripods 50.00-500.00.
A 1918 trench knife there asking 1700-1800 just for the sacberd.
Holsters I paid 250.00 up

Scopes 150.00 to 1000.00 easy. One guy wasn't even going to count those.

99% I have bought was under market value.

Who here would sell there collection for some of the prices here?


agree!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

When I was still working fellow employees would sometimes come to me with a list of guns that were for sale by friends or relatives and ask me what I thought such & such gun is worth. I had a stock answer. Forget about buying any of them, you will never even see them and they never did. Here is what happens. A son or daughter will swoop in, take charge and usually take the entire collection to the nearest gun or pawn shop and sell the lot for a fraction of what they are worth. The last time this happened a man who used to shoot at our range passed away. His widow called and asked if I could come down and help her sell the collection. When my wife and I arrived at her house she told me that she wanted to sell the guns with the least amount of trouble and that she had even thought about wrapping the pistols in rags and putting them in the bottom of the trash barrel one at a time. The man loved the .357 and 44 SPL and he had some nice guns in both calibers, either S&W or Ruger. I began to price the pistols with the idea of getting her the best price combined with a quick sale. I priced the guns with that in mind. My idea was to bring buyers there one or two at a time. I was only able to bring one friend and he looked over the collection and bought a S&W in .357. I had two other friends lined up to go to her house when her daughter called and all but accused me of stealing a model 29 S&W. I told the daughter that her mother had set in a chair and watched me all the time I was there and that I could scarcely hide a large pistol on my person since it was in the summertime and I only wore a thin shirt. She was basing her suspicion on a list her dad had made of his guns even though her mother told her that her father had sold some of them. The daughter gathered up all the guns and along with her mother and went to a gun shop and let them sell the lot. Her mother later called and apologized to me for her daughter's behavior. The next time a daughter called and asked if I was interested in buying her father's collection I looked them over and told her I will pay this amount. Well, she wanted to shop around and the guns passed from one expert to another. She would call me from time to time and say this gun smith said the guns are worth this and I told her, by all means sell them to him. Well he doesn't have the money. This went on for several months and one day she called and told she would take my offer. I told her that one of the rifles needed a repair and I had no idea who in California could do the job but that made little impression on her, in fact when I tried to explain to her something about the rifles her eyes would glaze over and she would say I have no idea what you are talking about. When I did get the rifles home it took some time to find a gunsmith who would even do the job and he only took it on if I was willing to wait a year. I said OK and shipped the breach block to him. It was Richard McKinney in Co. The Breach block needed a firing pin bushing. He called me seven months later and said the job was finished and that it was one of the hardest jobs he had ever done and he was not interested in doing another. The work, plus shipping cost me $220. He did a great job by the way.

[alamogunr]

Anybody that gets involved in family matters is "cruzin for a bruzin". Especially if it follows a death in that family.

[plus1hdcp]

Well guys it looks like my story will end up like many of yours.

"I thought they were worth more than that"
"Let me see what XYZ gun store will offer"
"I will have to think about it some more"

Oh well, I am sure another opportunity will arise in the future and my money is still in my pocket. I learned a long time ago to not go chasing any purchase but make a solid determination of any products value (to me) and not to be afraid to walk away.

Anyway, thank you for the discussion

[fatelk]

Yep, seen that happen. It seems like folks either think they've got gold and want top retail dollar for an old beater, or else they dump them cheap to the first wheeler-dealer who comes along with a low-ball offer. I've never bought a collection but I've seen a few of these sorts of things.

I once bought a bunch of reloading gear the day after the widow practically gave away all the guns. Another time a widow acquaintance of a friend told him she'd give me some lead. I showed up just as a couple guys got done loading a pickup bed full of ammo cans. Pretty much any time I've ever bought a gun from a friend who needed money I've been too nice and paid too much, but then again it wasn't for resale so I didn't need to make a profit. A neighbor of mine once had a pistol he wanted to sell and was complaining about a local gun dealer that he said was trying to rip him off. He told me the amount; I thought it was a pretty good offer from a guy with a business to run. You can't pay retail for used merchandise and stay in business.


Anybody that gets involved in family matters is "cruzin for a bruzin". Especially if it follows a death in that family.

Isn't that the truth! People do some pretty odd and unpredictable things in times like that.

[alamogunr]

This has nothing to do with guns except as the subject of many of them. I just finished cataloging all my books into a computer program in the hope that it would help my sons when they tried to dispose of them. One of the things the program included was value. I'm sure that I over valued many of the books and possibly under valued those that I don't feel a particular connection to. Also, the difficulty of obtaining some of them entered into my valuation.

I'm sure if I went thru the same process with my guns, that some would get a value above what my heirs could realistically expect and others less than what some would be willing to pay. I'm not going to do that because I hope that my sons or my grandsons will want them. If not, I won't be around to complain.

[fatelk]

A real quick story- I apologize if it's too off topic but it's about the disposal of a gun collection/estate. A friend of mine told me that his late father-in-law had a decent collection of average gun (this was better part of a half century ago). They got along really well, and FIL always told him that he was to have his guns someday.

Father-in-law remarried. New step-mother-in-law had grown sons of her own. Father-in-law passes away unexpectedly. After the funeral one of these step-brother-in-laws pulls him aside and tells him "Oh man, I'm so sorry, looks like Dad cut you out of the will." He shows him the will with the part naming him as inheritor of the guns scratched out in pencil.

He and his wife knew it was wrong and that they were being robbed, but they were young and didn't know what to do about it so they just let it go. Possession is 9/10 of the law, you know.

Fast forward 40 years. He gets a call out of the blue from one of the step-BILs, who he hadn't seen since the funeral. "Hey Chuck, I'm going to be in your part of the state next week and I'd like to see you."

He meets up with the guy who buys him lunch. After pleasantries, BIL tells him how guilty he's felt for decades about what they did to him, and apologizes. He says he can't speak for his brothers but for his part he has something to give him, then gets several old rifles out of his car, his part of what was taken. He showed me several of them. The most memorable was a Colt pump rifle in 25-20 I think, or maybe 32-20, I forget.

[kenyerian]

I think after reading these posts that I am going to get a table at the next Gun Show and start selling down. No sense in putting any additional burdens on my family. I have already told the kids that anything that I have left when I go should be simply sold at an estate auction and the proceeds divided and if they want something they can buy it.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well guys it looks like my story will end up like many of yours.

"I thought they were worth more than that"
"Let me see what XYZ gun store will offer"
"I will have to think about it some more"

Oh well, I am sure another opportunity will arise in the future and my money is still in my pocket. I learned a long time ago to not go chasing any purchase but make a solid determination of any products value (to me) and not to be afraid to walk away.

Anyway, thank you for the discussion

Pardon the pun but you may have just dodged a bullet.

Buying a collection of anything with the intentions of re-selling a portion of that collection is generally not a good way to make money. If you intend to break the collection down and sell individual pieces you must buy the collection way below market value to turn a profit. You also must be prepared to float that investment for a long time.
When dealing with firearms you are getting dangerously close to engaging in the business of selling firearms and therefore FFL territory.

I think you came out ahead in that situation when the deal didn't happen.

[plus1hdcp]

Pardon the pun but you may have just dodged a bullet.

Buying a collection of anything with the intentions of re-selling a portion of that collection is generally not a good way to make money. If you intend to break the collection down and sell individual pieces you must buy the collection way below market value to turn a profit. You also must be prepared to float that investment for a long time.
When dealing with firearms you are getting dangerously close to engaging in the business of selling firearms and therefore FFL territory.

I think you came out ahead in that situation when the deal didn't happen.

In a strange way, I agree. I am not one to sell guns but add to my collection and this is usually done one or two guns at a time. About the only time one leaves my collection is when I have upgraded the condition of one currently owned. However, sometimes I keep them both.

[Duckiller]

Guns are for buying not selling! I don't think I have ever sold a gun. Have raised two sons and a daughter to shoot. Hopefully they will split up my guns after I die without too much friction and they will enjoy them and think of me occasionally.

[TXGunNut]

A friend was tasked to sell a mutual friend's collection after he died and did a great job of it. It was several years ago when prices were pretty crazy so the widow made out quite well. Another friend, a professional financial advisor and former protégé of our friend, tried to help her with financial matters but was trumped by a greedy, self-serving relative. Those of us that had no expectations, only a desire to help, have all been forced out of the picture. We owed it to our friend to try but matters like this one have limits.
I don't have any kids and my nieces and their husbands show only a polite interest in firearms. I plan to get as much use as I can out of my guns and loading equipment because when I'm done with them somebody will probably get a bargain. Considering willing at least a few guns to museums and the NRA, will see.