First time casting for 38 special / 9mm

[mmesa005]

Hello All,

This will be my first time at casting boolits and I would appreciate feedback regarding the alloys I plan to order. I have considered ordering from TheCaptain, however, I expect I would have to add lead, tin, antimony to adjust to the hardness I need (unless others tell me different?) My thinking is to order alloy from Rotometals so I can focus on casting and not having to remix the alloy to the appropriate BHP. Once I get casting experience I will then be more comfortable mixing the alloy to get the appropriate BHP.


With that I plan to order the following:

I believe for 38 special I need a BHP of 10 (11 after water quench) which would be 1 to 20? For 9mm I could use Hardball or Lyman #2 which is 16 (17 after water quench)? For flux I will stop by Home Depot and pick up some sawdust as I understand that is the best flux to use?

Feedback appreciated.

[Lead Freak]

I would pick up a Lee hardness tester, a bucket of wheel weighs and start there. Sort out the steel and zink weights, smelt some small ingots and cast your boolits.
Use your hardness tester on the boolits and adjust your loads accordingly to stay below the boolit strength. Once you dial in a load, move onto harder alloys.

[wadcutter]

Looking at his ad, the captain says the range lead he sells is 12-14. That seems just fine to use in pistols without adjustment. I'd start with 38 special.

Edit: I wouldn't use saw dust.

[4719dave]

home depot saws cut more than just wood ...pet store and get pine chips ..

[Gofaaast]

Range scrap hardness will be perfect for 38. The saw dust you use needs to be from virgin wood (plywood or treated will contain nasty chemicals). Some people like buying pet bedding that is saw dust or shavings, this works well, you know the source and have a pine aroma. I would just use old candle wax starting out and stir it in well before skimming off the dross. I am not into casting 9mm so I will not comment on it.

[MUSTANG]

.38 and 9mm can be quite forgiving loading, as long as you start your loads at light to medium and working up. Also, keep in mind that for the .38 you'll want to look at .358 for sizing and for the 9mm, look at .356; probably .357 for sizing. Enjoy.

[mmesa005]

Thanks for all the replies! I have been watching Fortunecookie45 on YouTube who uses sawdust. Didn't realize the other chemicals that can been in there? I will get some pet bedding from my local pet store.

I have read several posting about which BHP to use for .38 / 9mm and there is definitely a range of BHP's called out. I have been reading the Fryxell pdf book and they show the following:

Application Useful Hardness Range
Light target loads (<800 fps and 10,000 psi) BHN 6-12
Standard revolver loads (800-1000 fps, 16,000 psi) BHN 8-14
+P revolver loads (1000-1200 fps, 20,000 psi) BHN 10-16
Magnum revolver loads (1200-1500 fps, 35,000 psi) BHN 12-20
454 Casull (1400-1800 fps, 50,000 psi) BHN 16 and up



I should have included this information in the first post - I did purchase Lee resizers in .357 / .358 - I purchased Lee TL358-158-2R and TL356-124-TC molds.

Head spinning, probably overthinking this a bit but in the end want to have a good casting session ;)

Thanks again to all!!

[MUSTANG]

Back in the late 1970's I used a single cavity Lee Mold similar to your TL356-124-TC , mine was a standard lube groove design- not the tumble Lube grooves. Probably still have it somewhere, but never use it anymore as I migrated to heavier boolits over the years, and the time to cast with a single cavity mold is much greater. I put probably 12,000 to 13,000 rounds of those through a S&W Model 39 over 3 years. The slide rail area of the frame (aluminum alloy) was beginning to show wear so I traded it off to a friend who wanted it desperately because of the light weight, and he did not care about the wear area in the rail area, so it went off to be put to pasture elsewhere.

I had good results with the Lee mold shooting in the 7 yards to 25 yards ranges, it should do well for you.

[mmesa005]

Mustang - Thanks!

Is this solder good for adding tin to lead?

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X3ZJRA?keywords=Tin%20Solder&psc=1&qid=1455502870&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1-spons

[jcren]

I have ordered range scrap from the captain and it cast great, very clean to begin with, eliminating the need for heavy flux. Just used a little bees wax to keep everything blended and skim off minor dust. Pc'd and shot in 38, 380, 45 and 30-06 up to 1400 or so with no problems. Try not to get bogged down in the details, just jump in. The 9 Will be a challenge due to bullet swedging inside brass, probably why so many think they need harder lead.

[takasaki]

I use straight coww or mix soft 50/50 with coww in both 38 and 9mm, have for years no problems or leading.

[Char-Gar]

Yes, I have some advice for you. Do not...I repeat...do not water drop those bullets.

[farmerjim]

Get your Tin from sellers on here, or from Rotometals. Much cheaper than solder. Get superhard from Rotometals for antimony , or Linotype from sellers on here from time to time. The Captain ( in vendors section) has good lead for a good price. Pistol lead does not have to be all that hard.

[edp2k]

Why not water drop?

[KYCaster]

Mustang - Thanks!

Is this solder good for adding tin to lead?

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X3ZJRA?keywords=Tin%20Solder&psc=1&qid=1455502870&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1-spons



THAT'S $42.00 A POUND FOR TIN!

Roto Metals has it for less than half that price.

Jerry

[RogerDat]

....
I have read several posting about which BHP to use for .38 / 9mm and there is definitely a range of BHP's called out. I have been reading the Fryxell pdf book and they show the following:
...........................

Head spinning, probably overthinking this a bit but in the end want to have a good casting session ;)

Thanks again to all!!

Tin is not more than $10 a lb. in the S & S forum here. It takes very little pewter or tin to put enough into your melt.

Water dropping increases the hardness much more than you posted. Can kick the hardness up into the 20's for COWW based lead. I think you mean BHN rather than BHP (phone spell check?) BHN is Brinell Hardness Number. Water dropped would be really hard for pistol.

That range of BHN for different velocities is wide enough at each to accommodate the wide variety of calibers and firearms that could be fired at that velocity. E.G a 45 colt revolver might have same velocity as a 45 ACP but the revolver can probably better use and tolerate lower BHN.

38 special is very forgiving revolver bullet to cast. Worse case you start out too soft and have to add something to give you a harder alloy. Not uncommon for folks to use 50/50 COWW's and plain lead. BHN around 10 which is also typical for range lead.

Don't over think, "Do over" is a real thing with lead bullets. No matter how badly you screw up you can just melt them down and do em over. If you make a couple hundred then size 50, then try a starting load of some powder, and a few rounds with a load up a bit from that. See how accurate and does it lead. If anything is "not right" you will then have specifics to post questions or continue doing your research for solutions (kudos for that effort BTW).

90% of what we worry about is not a problem that actually comes up, the problems turn out to be something totally different. For me it was pushing a little up as I slid the sprue plate across to cut the bases. Gave me funky bases. Back to the pot they went after folks pointed out what might cause the problem I was having (boolits wobbled if stood up on base). Don't be afraid to try a different temperature or alloy or way of pouring. Different approaches, even those that don't work will provide value in the learning.

[mmesa005]

Thanks again for the feedback and direction! I have order COWW from TheCaptain and will start by casting that as is. I should have my casting equipment before the weekend and hopefully the alloy by then as well ;)

Until then I will keep reading and rereading in preparation for my first go at casting!

[Petrol & Powder]

If you're reading Fryxell, you're on the right track.

I would also avoid water dropping, there's no need.

I shoot a lot of 38 Special and aim for an alloy around 11 Bhn. I size to .358" and that works fine in all of my Ruger and S&W revolvers.

9mm is a different story for me. The barrel diameters are all over the map and I must pick one gun and size for that barrel.

38 Special is a bit more forgiving and I'd suggest you start there.

The lead alloy spread sheet calculators are a big help.

Good luck!

[frkelly74]

I didn't see what mold you are using mentioned but I would just add that fatter is better to a point. With revolver you want the boolit to exit the cylinder with some friction, not just fall through and not with a lot of force needed. The loaded cartridge needs to chamber easily also, without having to really push on it to get it in. My rule of thumb is to use the largest diameter boolit that will still chamber easily. It is possible that you could get some range lead, a Lee 150 gr round nose mold and just shoot them tumble lubed as cast, It can be that simple. If you do get a sizing die be aware that they are adjustable as long as you need to go larger. It takes very little effort to open up a push through die with a wooden dowel and some abrasive paper. Casting in my opinion is an art as well as a science . Start simple and see what happens, You do have a Lyman book don't you? If not you should get one, it has many things in it that can be helpful as well as load data.

[mmesa005]

The molds I will use are Lee 6 Cav TL358-158-2R and TL356-124-TC. I have the Lee Lubricating & Sizing kits in .357 and .358.

Thanks again for all the great advice!

[RogerDat]

This is a link to a good price on some tin http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?290608-F-S-Pewter-TIN-Ingots-for-bullet-castin There are other members with tin for sale I just have seen this one running for awhile so there has been buyers feedback. An ingot of this stuff or ingots from scrap pewter will go a long way. Using the alloy calculator it comes out to 2.5 lbs of pewter will easily provide tin for 100 lbs. of COWW's. Actually a pretty sweet 2.75/3.09/94 alloy of Sn/Sb/Pb You could treat 120 lbs. of WW's and still have more than 2% tin. Estimated BHN is better than 12 for either of those mixes.

[Char-Gar]

Why not water drop?

Cast bullets in revolvers that are too hard will cause far more problems than those which are too soft. There is no 38 Special load than can benefit from bullets harder than about 10 to 11 Bhn. They don't even have to be that hard to perform well.

[farmerjim]

Here is a source for tin.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?290608-F-S-Pewter-TIN-Ingots-for-bullet-castin

[RogerDat]

I would tend to agree with Char Gar that those two recipes would be harder than would be needed. But a lot of folks use 2% tin, 3% antimony mix as a basic ingredient, that would be COWW's with 2% tin. You could cut that by a lot with plain lead and still be in a good place.

Harder lead requires better fit.

[gwpercle]

For 38 and 9mm you don't need hard boolits, in fact hard is way over rated. Proper fit is much more important.
I discovered that boolits cast 50-50 soft lead and COWW worked better than boolits cast of straight COWW's.
I had a free supply of COWW and for years cast with them + a little tin. My free supplier retired and I started mixing with lead to stretch what I had......results were the softer boolits shoot better than the harder. You don't need to water drop / quench harden for these boolits either, air cooled works just as well. Rifle boolits are another story and may benefit from hardening, it all depends on the application.
Read what RogerDat has to say....he knows.
Gary

[mmesa005]

Finished my first casting late yesterday afternoon! Looking forward to more casting and gaining more experience.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc454/mmesa005/Reloading/Cast%20Boolits/20160220_193825.jpg (http://s1212.photobucket.com/user/mmesa005/media/Reloading/Cast%20Boolits/20160220_193825.jpg.html)