Handi....are they ALL crap or ?

[Fish_N_Russ]

I am brand new here (great site btw), and I am thinking of getting a 45-70. Where I live we have tons of bear around, plus I really like the idea of making some big boolits to shoot at the local range (5 min away).

Anyway, im pretty limited on budget and it appears unlesss I want to spend around $500 on a Marlin, the Handi 45-70 is the next step down. Im leaning towards the Buffalo model but they are hard to find in my area and the local store has some synthetic stocked Handis already.

But from what I see posted, it seems a lot of them are not very good. Are the older models better or ???

thanks for any info or advise
Russ

[JSnover]

It's a crapshoot. You'll get a good one that shoots great out-of-the-box or you'll have to send it back for a new barrel. If you're gonna do it, do it now. Remington is planning to shut down H&R.

[garandsrus]

Russ,

I have pretty much heard nothing but very good things about the 45-70 Buffalo Classic. I have one in 38-55 that I like.

You might want to poke around a more "Handi specific" site such as www.greybeard.com. They have a Handi Rifle forum.

John

[Freightman]

I have a BC and never had a problem in two years. The front sight is to tall but you can order a shorter one from Brownell for $30, it should have a .405 but has something like .535 making it shoot low or run out of adjustment at 150 yds. With the lower sight you can get out to 700 yds or so. Go to Greaybeards site and go through the handi FAQ and basics stickies. There is a post in there on how to install a tang or you can order the sight that goes on the 1871 a Wesson & Harington from Brownell. Lots of things you can do with a cheap rifle and still not spend your retirement.

[JSnover]

Both the Handi and the BC are great guns as affordable shooters or as platforms for customization. I've heard lots of praise for them but I've also heard some significant complaints. I own a BC and could not get it on the paper at 50 yards without using all of the rear sight windage.
Groups nice, but if the wind blows in from the left I'm screwed. Replaced the sights, kept the barrel clean, checked to make sure everything locked up nice and tight. Still no good. To find the black at 200, the rear mount is all the way left and the front dovetail is as far to the right as possible. I'm taking my own advice and having the barrel replaced before H&R disappears.
For what it's worth, I found all the same issues as some of the other owners: The throat is tighter than the bore, groove/bore dimensions are .457/.455. Fat boolits (.459-.460) group well enough - one hole @50 yards on a good day - but it just isn't right.

[725]

I love 'em. Short barreled .45-70 with a scope and I'm getting 1/2 MOA, with 405 gr jacketed Remingtons and a semi-mild load of 3031. This summer I'm planing on working out some cast loads. I've heard the horror stories, just haven't had any myself.

[jlchucker]

My gunsmith had a 45-70 buffalo classic at our shooting range one day last year. He had replaced the stock target sight with a standard, bead type. I was there with my 95 Marlin. We both ended up shooting his BC with his cast Boolit handloads and mine. His rifle shot excellent--so well, in fact, that I ordered the 38-55 version, which ended up souring me on H&R and the 38-55 caliber! I've since sold that rifle (which shot jacketed factory ammo very well, by the way) to someone who has yet to become as frustrated as me. An earlier poster may have been right--H&R handi-rifles may be a crapshoot. A lot of posters to this website and others have encountered big trouble with the 38-55. Some come away satisfied, but mostly after sinking a lot of bucks into special moulds, remachining the barrel, etc. Buyer beware.

[jim4065]

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. My 38-55 Target shoots better than I can hold, using cast boolits and BP. It may be that I don't shoot it enough to get soured - but so far it's been a lot of fun. Have 3 other Handi's, they're a lot of bang for the buck. Don't forget that Remington has a big investment in Baikal, with the potential for much larger profit margins. That may explain dropping the Handi.

[NickSS]

I have the short barrel 45-70 that they make and I am totally happy with it. I got it for a short range woods hunting rifle and it works great for that. I put a red dot sight on it and out to 100 yards the rifle shoots as good as I can shoot. It is also short and light and eazy to carry all day without wearing me out.

[kjg]

hey I thoght those H&R wore juck based on the prices but ya know what I bought one in 45-70 the short barreled one and with my casted 405 grainers and either 2400, or unique it as a real hog stomper here in georgia, and you can get other barrels for it and at the fraction of the price a encore is. kjg

[Fish_N_Russ]

thanks for all the comments folks

[Nrut]

Russ...You might look into getting a Knight KP-1...They cost just under $500.00 for a stainless synthic model and their extra barrels are just over $200.00....With one receiver you can get spare barrels in rimfire, centerfire, muzzle loader & shotgun.....That you can change the barrel yourself, ie you don't have to send them to the factory for fitting...
I think they are going to give T/C's Encore a run for the money...Yes they are more expensive than the H&R/NEF but if they have decent quality control it will be money well spent...
Good luck on what ever you chose to bust those bears with!..:)


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_301/products_id/50095

http://www.sunrisearchery.com/KNIGHT_KP1.htm (Two pages)

http://www.knightrifles.com/PressRoom/Releases/History_Meets_Technology_In_The_KP1_Wurfflein.htm

Remington closing down H&R/NEF as several posters above have stated?....Not from what I have been reading...See Wrongtargets post here http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=46693

[littlejack]

Well fella's:
I may as well put in my .02. I purchased a Buffalo Classic 45-70 new in February of 2006. I have shot over 2000 rounds through it since then. I haven't been able to get it to shoot consistant groups with any of my reloads. I have not shot any factory ammo through it. I have been reloading and shooting for over fourty years. I take great care and pride in the making of my reloads.
I have shot loads with the Speer jacketed 400 grain FP, The Lyman Postell 535 grain plain base "naked and pp'd", Lyman 330 grain hp "naked and pp'd, Lee 405 grain hb "naked and pp'd, Lyman 500 grain 457125 "naked and pp'd. and two other bullet types and shapes of Lyman and two custom bullet moulds.
I have used the following powders 2400, re7, imr 4198 , imr 3031, varget, imr 4895 and Hodgdons 777.
I started out with the factory sights and then went to a Leupold scope. Still the same problem.
I have been on the Handloaders.com forum for about three years and conversed with several BC and Handi rifle owners to get all of the input to get mine to shoot to no avail. I have looked on the Greybeards forum also with no help.
The action would sometimes break open upon firing and I was told that the latch was not engaging enough. I stoned the shelf and this did not fix the problem.
On Monday of this week, I called H&R 1871 and told them my problem. The repair technicion couldn't believe I had shot that many rounds and not been able to get the rifle to shoot well. He stated that the Buffalo Classics were one of their best shooters. Naturall he told me that my reloads were not recognized as proper fodder for getting their rifle to shoot. He told me to send it to them and they would repair it. I sent it to them an Tuesday and told them
" no matter what your findings", replace the barrell, I will pay for it. I will let you know how this all works out . It will probably be a month befor I get it back and some longer befor I get loads for it and shot. I still have mixed feeling about the rifle. If the service department can get it right then that would sway my opinion to the positive side. Maybe, I just got a lemon.
Good reloading to you all.
Jack

[Scrounger]

You're obviously an experience shooter so the only thing I can suggest is to make sure the butt stock is absolutely tight to the receiver. That is a common source of accuracy problems in rifles with two-piece stocks.

[littlejack]

Scrounger:
Been there and done that. I even put a lead filled pipe in the butt to add weight. Recoil was lighter, But most of my loads were with the Lyman 535 Postell at around 1200 t0 1250. Recoil was very tolerable any way. I added the weight for the heavier loads.
Jack

[axman]

I thought I would weigh in on the Buffalo Classic Handi's. I bought one of the first when they came out, this was when it came with no sights and you had to buy your own. The gun shot well for me with 500 grn hornady jacketed . I got 3 shots into 3/4'' at 100 using a load of 3031 with Williams peep rear and Lyman 17a front. The only complaint was the trigger and I had the factory lighten it.

[WBH]

I have an older Handi Rifle with a .243 Win barrel. It is an MOA gun at 100 yards. I also had a 22 Hornet barrel for it that I sold bc it couldn't shoot worth a $&*@.
But, I also sent a TC Custon Shop barrel back in 22K Hornet bc they turned the barrel .012" under diameter at the breech so that it rattled side to side in the frame. Workmanship seems to have gone to hell in most places. I have taken to having the old guns restored by the best 'smiths I can afford. Never can compalin that way.

[tom barthel]

The handi in .45-70 is a very good rifle. I was very unhappy with the trigger. I got used to it. Don't know the weight of the buffalo classic. My little handi rifle was painful to shoot. What I did to make it more pleasant was add about 3+ pounds of lead shot to the stock. I did it by removing the too thin pad and cutting a aluminum tube to match the depth on the stock screw hole and filling the tube with shot. I sealed the ends of the tube and inserted it into the hole in the stock. I did need to shorten it a bit more so I could reinstall the pad. I also added a slip on recoil pad. I still have a lot of wild loads and must shoot them up so I can reload some MILD loads. 40 years ago I would have laughed at the recoil. Now, I bruise easy. Life goes on. I just adjust. If you want to get the handi rifle, get it quick. I think you will like it. They usually shoot as well as the rifles you mortgage your house to buy. It's my understanding the plant may be shut down. Don't know how service will be after that. If it is affordable, you may consider getting a 7-08 or .280 Rem. or .270 or .308 or .30-06 and send the rifle back to the plant and have a .45-70 barrel installed. Also tell them the trigger is terrible and you want lightened as much as possible. If you request a trigger job when you send it in for another barrel, the trigger job is usually free. It isn't a TC but you can get the basic rifle and at least one extra barrel for the cost of a basic TC.
Enjoy
Tom

[John Boy]

I have an HTxxxxx vintage 2003 BC that I put a vernier rear sight on. At all distances, shooting BP reloads, the rifle is very accurate. Best 5 shot group at 600yds was 7 x 2/34" with 3 holes a silver dollar would cover. At 1000yds, it will 'Whong' a 82 x 48" steel buffalo with consistent hits - again, using the original gunpowder. Even managed to put a splash on a 16" bullseye that I painted on the buffalo

With the 38-55 barrel and BPCR reloads, I can tip the rams consistently at 500m and even managed to hit the 1000yd buffalo after many sighters on a day with 20+ mph variable wind

This 'El Cheapo' shoots as good as my other high dollar BPCR's

[chaos]

I got one of the Buffalo Classics when they first came out. Gun had NO sights with it. I put a little 1x4 power scope on it. I took 4 deer with it that year and the gun grouped like a champ. I have since put it in the safe for lack of intrest in the damn thing. I'd like to get a decent set of irons to put on it and maybe I'd start casting for it. Anyone know where to get a set of irons for this thing?

[GLL]

chaos:

Is you gun drilled for the sights?

I am modifying a gun and will have a set available when it is finished. You can have them if you are willing to wait a month or two !

Best Regards,

Jerry

[jack19512]

My B/C 45/70 shoots jacketed and my cast quite well and I have never had any problems with it. It is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. I must have got a good one because the trigger on mine is very light and crisp. :smile:

[badgeredd]

But from what I see posted, it seems a lot of them are not very good. Are the older models better or ???

thanks for any info or advise
Russ

My $.02 here. I haven't had or shot a newer Handi, but a friend has an older (From before H&R changed hands) 45-70 and it shoots very well. I have three in various small calibers and they do really well. One thing I've heard and read is that the chambers on a lot of current production guns are loose. Beyond that, I'd say listen to the more experience fellow here, they won't stear you wrong intentionally for sure, and they seem to have a lot of experience amongst them.

[littlejack]

Well fella's I told you all that I sent my BC back to H&R. They did as I requested and replaced the barrell. Kudo's for them. I told them that I would even pay for it. There was no charge. They test shot it with Winchester 300 grain factory loads. They sent a picture of the target and the group. Five shots in what looks like 1". Great says I when I receive it. Now I can start all over with jacketed bullets. If you remember, I had shot over two thousand rounds through the rifle and could not get the damn thing to shoot consistantly. These loads were 99% cast bullets. So I goes down and loads up on all the jacketed bullets I get my hands on for the 45-70. The Winchester are not available so I bought the Speer 350 grain fp, the Hornaday 300 grain fphp, the Hornaday 350 grain fp and I had some of the 400 Speer fp's.
I'm guessing the Winchester loads were going around 1800 fps. I load rounds with all the different bullets to shoot for group. I used Re7 with WLR primers. I started with 40 grains of powder for each and went to 45 grains with the 350 grainers and up to 45 then 50 grains with the 300 grainers. I'm just back from the range.
All of the groups I mean patterns absolutely STINKETH. What the hell is going on here? Any body want to buy a BC?
I'm going to clean the damn thing and put it in the back of the gun safe and let it age for about 40 years.:confused:
Good shooting to you all.

[waksupi]

Littlejack, you probably won't want to hear this, but if the factory got good results, I suspect your bench technique needs worked on. Benchrest shooting ain't easy. Ask Felix.

[leftiye]

Get a Caldwell lead sled 2. It has a place to rest the buttstock, and you can put whatever weight in the tray you want to reduce how much you take in the shoulder. It also has first rate benchrest adjustments (the same ones they put on their "rock" front benchrest thing). There is room for criticism, you may have to modify it some to get the front rest farther back for the Handi rifle. It goes without saying, - USE A SCOPE.

I've got to say though that accuracy with jacketed isn't usually hard to find, and in my world when I couldn't find it, it was the gun. (Maybe I was lucky, but if my gun worked like it should, and I did my part, accuracy was there when I built my loads well)

[Junior1942]

Littlejack, you probably won't want to hear this, but if the factory got good results, I suspect your bench technique needs worked on. Benchrest shooting ain't easy. Ask Felix.+ 1 to work on bench technique and maybe loading, too. Both the 22" and the 32" BC 45-70 barrels on my Handi shoot great, i.e., 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 MOA with peep sights. My brother bought a new 22" 45-70 Handi last week, and it shoots just fine.

[jack19512]

Another thing you probably don't want to hear but, is there anyone else you know that could try their hand and see what results they can come up with? It's worth a try before giving up on the rifle. I am a little confused that the factory seems to have shot a good group with it and they did replace the barrel right? I don't shoot from a bench but from the hood of my truck using a old pillow folded up tightly to rest the rifle on and my B/C shoots very well with jacketed and my cast.

[Junior1942]

The dwell time is long in that 32" barrel. That means more time to flinch, move, jerk, etc., before the bullet leaves the barrel.

[lathesmith]

I know this isn't news but....hard-recoiling rifles BOUNCE, espcially when trying to bench-shoot them. And like Junior says, that 32" barrel enhances this. As jack suggests, have someone who has a proven ability to bench-shoot a hard recoiling rifle accurately give it a try before giving up. Pride is a tough thing to swallow sometimes, but if we can learn to swallow it when we need to, the wallet stays fatter and we usually end up wiser to boot.
lathesmith

[littlejack]

Fella's:
thanks for all the replies.
As far as the hard recoiling guns go,I try to stay within my tolerence. If I find that a load is to hard on, me I back off.
As far as the bounce of the rifle goes, I agree. I have shot the BC off of the bags and then with my hand under the forarm between the bag to give the rifle a softer rest and not something hard to bounce on. I do this with all of my rifles to simulate shooting in the field. Like if I were shooting over a log or stump, my hand will be supporting the forarm.
I do follow through with the shot to let the barrell clear the barrell as with all my rifles.
I had a scope mounted on the rifle and still got the inconsistant groups.
As far as my technique goes, all of my rifles will shoot under 1" or under at 100 yards with me shooting them. My model 788 22-250 last group two weeks ago was .346. My M44 Mosin-Nagant with the 20" barrell will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. My 8mm-06 AI shot a 5/8" group two years ago, the last time I shot it. I shoot every weekend off the bench so I cannot see how my technique can be that bad.
I will buy a box of what the factory shot an try them. I will also let another proven shooter shoot it as well. I'm prety sure that the buffalo hunters never had this problem with their single shots so why should the BC be so picky?
I know that I am NOT the best shot around but I do my share of shooting and have loaded ammunition for 40+ years. I cannot believe that I can shoot a shootable and accurate rifle well and not be able to shoot this BC.
Jack

[jh45gun]

Look for a Used Encore. They are quality!

[jack19512]

The reason I suggested letting someone else try their hand at the rifle was because this actually happened to me and my oldest son once. We got together one day for some target shooting with our 17 Mach 2 rifles.

Myself and my son are both fair shots but for some reason he was not able to shoot a decent group that day, he started thinking that there might be something wrong with either the rifle or the scope.

I finally told him to let me try and see what I might do. From the get go I was shooting around 3/8 inch groups. He couldn't believe it. Funny thing is after I showed him that there was nothing wrong with the rifle or scope he started shooting fine. We never have figured this one out. :roll: Are you absolutely positive they replaced the barrel? Still doesn't explain why they were able to shoot a decent group though. :confused:

[lonewolf5347]

I have the new 2007 model 38-55 and I tried a few different cast boolets in it all are just 1 large hole from the bench at the 50 to 70 yard target.
I found the gun will shoot most any cast from .379 to .381 with 26to28 grains of IMR 3031 all in one hole

[waksupi]

Jack, have you tried holding the forearm, hard on the bag? Many rifles want dampened to shoot well from a bag.

[Fish_N_Russ]

What is a good price on a newer mfg, used BC? I saw one recently for $250...good/bad?
thanks

[littlejack]

Jack:
As I said, I will try the factory ammunition that H&R used, and let another shooter try it. I have a machinist friend at the shop where I work that also is a gunsmith mostly with the older rifles with black powder cartridges. I ask him what the standard depth of rifling in a black powder rifle was. He immediateley and imfaticly said .005 deep. The rifling in my BC barrell is only .002 to .0025. He said that would not hold a cast or lead bullet properly especially at any of the higher speeds at all. He is a prety fair shot also, I can get him to be my "other" shooter.
Yes they did replace the barrell.
If the factory ammunition doesn't work, I don't know any other options.
Lonewolf, the original barrell would group at 50 yards but that does no good at further ranges. I have not tried the new replacement barrell.

[lonewolf5347]

I did slug the bore on the 38-55 and if I remember the numbers they were .374 groove @.3785 land to land
I myself have never shot past 70 yards with the 38-55 yet but will as soon as I get a chance
I had the 45-70 also BC model and with cast and smokeless and BP they did group excellent I only sold it because I am not a fan of recoil
I say so far I am a happy camper with the 38-55

[SharpsShooter]

My suggestion is to go to Black Powder only and soft cast boolits(30:1) that are .002" over bore diameter. I would also go to a short set of good cross sticks and shoot prone with no more than 3" of the barrel protruding beyond the sticks. I have a close friend with a BC that he bought from Lonewolf and it is easily a minute of angle gun to 300yds.

SS

[JIMinPHX]

chaos:

Is you gun drilled for the sights?

I am modifying a gun and will have a set available when it is finished. You can have them if you are willing to wait a month or two !

Best Regards,

Jerry

The front sights that they use vary. Some use #4 screws. Some use #6. It seems to vary with the caliber. The height of the front sight & the blade that they install in the rear sight vary too. Even if the barrel is already tapped, it might not be just a matter of screwing on a set of sights from another handi. But hey, you might get lucky, especially if it is the same caliber or a similar caliber barrel.

[jack19512]

Make sure you let us know what if anything you find out. I wish you were local to me, I sure would like a go at it. :drinks:

[nicholst55]

Anyone know where to get a set of irons for this thing?

Try Track of the Wolf for iron sights. They have excellent (full size) pix of their products, and good descriptions. Some of their sights are rather spendy, but the quality is outstanding.

www.trackofthewolf.com

[nicholst55]

If anybody feels the need for a $300+ custom barrel for their Handi, David Miller is the man to talk to. He uses a very slick process to make a 'stub' out of your factory barrel, and attaches an aftermarket barrel to it. I see a heavier barrel for my Buffalo Classic in my future.

http://dandtcustomgunworks.com/

[leftiye]

Nichols, I'm in the process of making one of them out of a 12 gauge barrel for an H&R topper, probly in 32-20 caliber. Your suggestion on this made me think that if the 45-70 barrel I have won't shoot (you know, .002" deep rifling like H&R did/NEF does), maybe I'll use the "stub" ( I call it a reciever) and make a longer, heavier 45-70 barrel with it. Best of both worlds, or something like that.

[nicholst55]

leftiye, I recently realized that, and I'm reluctant to admit this, I just plain have too many guns. I have several that I've never fired, and several more that I've only fired once, or at most, twice.

Although I hate to do it, it's time to thin the herd once I return to the States. I intend to get the total down to a more manageable number (under 20, at any rate). To do this, I plan to replace most of my rifles with either one or two Savage bolt guns and several additional barrels (since changing barrels on a Savage is a DIY proposition), or with a couple of Handi Rifles and some additional barrels. Or, perhaps a combination of the two.

The more I study on Handi Rifles, the better I like that concept. I already own a .22 Mag, the Buffalo Classic, and a Tracker slug gun. I'd need at least one additional receiver for high-pressure, high velocity cartridges, but I think it's doable. Knowing that there is a source for custom barrels makes the idea even more appealing. I'm hooked on cartridges like .257 Weatherby, .35 Whelen, and others that are either not offered or no longer offered by the factory. Besides, with H&R/NEF having been sucked up by Cerberus, who knows what will happen?

I like the idea of your .32-20 project; I could do with one of them, myself. I have a Colt Army Special that would be an ideal companion to it.

[leftiye]

Ya want my address?

[rkwrichard]

I have both the Handi Rifle and Marlin and in bear country save up and get the Marlin. NOTHING wrong with the Handi Rifle but that second shot is a killer when bear hunting. If you want it to just be able to shoot 45-70 and shoot them accurately the Handi rifle is just fine...

[littlejack]

Should I give up, UPDATE:
I bought a box of what the factory used in testing my BC with the new replacement barrell. Winchester 300 hp's. Now I remember why I reload and cast my own. 34.99 per box.
I did not get to use the other shooter that I wanted but will do so later this month, for a third opinion. The second fella is a gun club member and is familiar with apertue sights and the ex-president of the club. All of this does not mean he can shoot , although he does compete in many matches.
Anyway, my measured group was 3.00" wide and 4.25" vertical. The other fellas was 6.25" wide and 6.00 vertical.
I truly believe that this rifle is a lemon. A relitively good shooter should be able to take the damn thing out and hunt, without stressing where or how to hold the forarm or whether to be able to use shooting sticks or not, or if one closed the action the exact way each time.
Jack

[Scrounger]

Jack, I can't give you any advice at all on your rifle but I can give you a little free philosophy for what it's worth. If I have any negative feelings at all about a gun, I get rid of it because I know I will never trust it or be happy with it. This isn't limited to functional disabilities; If I decide I paid too much for it, it's gone; If there was anything at all about getting it that left a bad taste in my mouth, it's gone. I might turn around and buy another one of the same model, just hoping it arrives in a more positive atmosphere. I'm a strange duck. I believe I'd be the same way about a wife.

[littlejack]

Scrounger:
I definately have plenty of negatives about this rifle. It will always be in my mind, "all of the trouble that I have had with it. I would just as soon give it back to the factory if they would pay me my price that I payed out for it. In the very near future, i am going to give them a call and ask them just that.
Jack

[405]

littlejack,
I really hate to post about the Aitch & Aura single shots because there are enough out there that shoot very well and they are an inexpensive way to get into a gun but my limited experience with them is that there are lemons out there. Could happen with any gun I guess. soooo- NO you ain't goin' crazy.

The one I had any experience with was a new gun in 22 Hornet- perfect I thought for knock around varmint truck gun. I was allowed to shoot it before buying. Would NOT hit the proverbial barn from the inside! Period.

[littlejack]

405:
That makes me feel a little better. I know that there has to be more than mine out there that hasn't shot to the owners expectations.
Jack

[C A Plater]

If it will make you feel better, this is what my .38-55 H&R does with factory ammo at 33 yards. It sure explains the "deal" I got on it too. Maybe fixable with cast but perhaps shutting down the Gardner MA plant was a good thing judging by this sample of their work.

http://tcbunch.com/kiosk/H&R_38-55_target2-sm.jpg

[jlchucker]

C A Plater, that looks almost exactly like one of my targets, shot with the H & R 38-55. After a huge amount of experimentation with various cast bullets, seating depths, loads, etc. somebody (lucky for me) offered me nearly what I paid for the gun. Now HE'S dealing with the occasional keyhole as well. I agree completely with 405, Littlejack, and Scrounger--enough bad experiences with a gun will give you a phobia about it, even if you end up somehow curing the problem. Sometimes the "cure" involves remachining that should have been done during oringinal production at the factory in the first place. Mention was made about a "lemon". Well, there have been far too many "lemons" reported on this website and others concerning H & R rifles. Yeah, a lot of people post good results as well--but no other company's products seems to have so many "lemons".

[tom barthel]

I seem to recall the specs were + or - up to .003. I got lucky. My .30-30 was .3079. I would NOT buy another with that much tolerance.
if I had it to do over, I would spend the extra money for extra quality. That said, the handi rifle is VERY handy. I like mine. Just wouldn't get another.

[leftiye]

There ought ta be a law - LOL! At least it seems that way when a company ignores industry standards and makes up their own. But maybe there is a law after all, they adopt sloppy criteria for quality control, and their guns don't shoot, and then people stop buying their guns. H&R, Marlin, NEF, whatever you call them had had forever a marketing concept that was a gold mine in that single shot design, and totally boinked the pooch and ran it into the ground. May other companies hopefully pay attention!

[The Dust Collector]

I bought one in 99 chambered for 30-30. I would have to go a long way to find a better shooter. My only objection was the trigger pull which I have cured. This shooter has a permanent place in my pickemup truck. Nuff said.
DUST

[lonewolf5347]

I did some research on the 38-55 and this is what I been told barrel made before 2007 are a luck of the draw some are over sized to .381
The 2007 model were now made by marlin or made to marlin spec and seem they are the best barrel of the lot.
I had a 45-70 that shot excellent and I sold the gun to a board member here (sharpshooter) and from what he states the gun will print outstanding groups shot the gun with soft lead using both BP and smokeless loads and never had any problems .
The main reason for selling was a recoil issue.
I was lucky to pick up a 38-55 last dec: a 2007 model that so far will print outstanding groups using smokeless for now hopeful at a later time trying some BP loads.
I also have another Handi in 30-06 and here another gun that shoots outstanding I only had to remove the ejector system I seem to get sticky case now and then I thought my loads were hot but I do not load on the top end find the 30-06 165 grain boolet around 2400 fps always get the job done the picture will speak for itself
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/30-06target001.jpg

[lonewolf5347]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/lonewolf5347/38-55002.jpg
38-55 h@R sarco #738 255 grain boolet at the bench 60 yards IMR 3031 26.5 grains C.O.A.L. 2.660

[leftiye]

Didn't mean to offend anybody. I've got several myself and I do like them. But reality will catch up to anyone who markets crap. And H&R or whatever they're called today has marketed some. I think it is a small percentage, but when they start making up their own industry standards for bore and groove specs, and chambering single shots with Marlin lever type chambers, and putting out barrels with .002 in deep grooves, one has to see the problem. So you send it back, and they put another one just like it on there - where's the solution to that?

I have a ruger with a Titus barrel on it. Got it back in the 70s, and it didn't put two bullets together until after you fired eight bullets in a row to heat up the barrel. Worked over the bedding. Put a fiberglass stock on it (a good expensive one, can't remember the brand) with pillar bedding and the whole nine yards. Still did it. Ruger said they'd put a new barrel on it. I told them I already had a ruger barrel, and thanks but no thanks.

[stillhunter]

Stick with the 45-70. I wasted time and money on a 38-55 that was a pig. I have a Ruger No 1 now and it is as good as the other is bad. H&R diserves what they get.

[leftiye]

Rechamber that 38-55 barrel to .375-06 if it has a goofy chamber. The Handis are ideal for customized chambers and paper patched boolits (if they don't have goofy rifling too that is). I've about decided to long throat my 45-70 with a real slow leade angle and dedicate it to paper patching.

[C A Plater]

My .38-55 finally responded with round holes in the target using .380 diameter slugs. I did have a slight chamber issue with some factory new Winchester brass. I suspect the chamber length is minimum causing a few of the unfired test rounds to not eject. A little tap from a cleaning rod dislodged the round and there were no marks on the bullet. The cases measured 2.080 and trimming them to 2.075 may do the trick. I'll do a chamber cast one day to get the real story.

[leftiye]

Are there signs of the case mouths being "crimped" a little? If so, this can be dangerous (as I'm sure you already know). Also a possibility is that your oversize boolits are tight in the case and the case tight in the chamber neck. So long as the case is not too tight in the chamber, this can be a good thing for keeping the boolit aligned. As was probly said earlier here, these H&R 38-55s are famous for tight chamber necks. Too bad their 45-70s don't have those too!

Do that chamber cast and find out. Your groove diameter may actually want bigger dia. boolits,

[Bluehawk]

I have posted here on this topic before I will go again
MY H&R 38-55 gave me fits for quite a long time . It turns out that they did the chambers and barrels to the original specs that the old manufacturers used which produced small chambers and big barrels . The old ammo manufactured in the older guns used black powder and cup based bullets at 30/1 or 40/1 and they bumped up nice to fill the barrels . H&R screwed up there and apparently re did the process for the last batch they produced then got tired of the gripes and complaints and dropped the rifle from production
I could not get the proper bullet size to chamber in mine with normal Winchester brass.Swithced to Starline brass ( on advice from guys here and other forums ) and PROBLEM SOLVED the rifle now chambers bullets with 380 bullets quite nicely and shoots very nice consistant groups of under two inches ALWAYS. Shot a deer with it last year too :-D
I have one other rifle from H&R with one barrel ( 22 Hornet ) and one with multiple barrels in 223; 30-30 ; 30-06; and 45-70 + 3.5 inch 12 ga.
It took me much time to get the older ( Model 158 22 Hornet ) to shoot well but now either Lil gun or W296 make it shoot within an inch with J bullets of 40 grains .
THe other rifle had some interesting work and I am still working on some of the barrels
the 45 -70 will shoot the 350 Grain bullets exceptionally well at or under 1.25 inches all day with 3031 ,Varget , and H4895. It will shoot 400 Grain speer bulets well too but not quite as nicely as the 350s. I then went to the 385 grain Lyman cast RN and it shot "ok" about 2.75 in groups the best I could do off the bench at 100 yrds. It will not shoot any of the 400 /405 grain bullets well at all and will not shot the 450 or heavier bullets AT ALL .
The 223 shoots 50 grainers under an inch all day long with Varget and has never been a problem .
the 30-30 gave me fits until I happend to shoot some factory 170 grainers to get a new scope sighted in . NOW im happy to report it shoots the 165 gain bullets and 170 grainers well . IT WILL NOT SHOOT ANY CAST BULLETS AT ALL tried three diffrerent weights and styles and several loads. will not shot them worth a darn / I just got the 30-06 barrel shooting and it likes the heavy J bullets too I have not tried cast yet out of that .
I did also own one that I truly did give up on ( so littlejack give up on that one if you want ) I had a 308 Ultra that would not shoot ANYTHING! I tried every bullet weight from 130s to 220s , I tired every factory round I could lay my hands on , I tried three different scopes and mounts, I treid every different powder I could think of and different primers> I had the forend bedded and free floated and I tried every trick I have heard of or read on the fore stock and hinge etc and NOTHing worked never got less the 4 inch groups with any thing I GOT RID OF THAT boat anchor
Moral of the story is I have not given up on H&R all in all I LOve the guns for the money they are the best buy around IMHO ! BUT they do need "tweaking " either judicious loading , or work on the gun or both RIght now all the ones I have , in all the calibers I could take out hunting for the purpose they were designed for and be quite comfortable in feeling they could do the job nicely .

[lonewolf5347]

I went as far as .381 cast with starline brass in my 38-55 but like you said there barrels were a pot luck shot until marlin did there spec: over in the 2007 model

[crazy mark]

I took my new 357 mag Handi out today and I didn't find a boolit or bullet I had brought it didn't like. I was shooting 125 gr thru 240 gr in it. I was getting 1.5-2.5" groups at 75 yds. A 357 Max won't chamber and the chamber/throat doesn't seem to be excessively long. This one won't be chambered for 357 max unless it starts doing something weird. Mark

[jlchucker]

Exactly what Stillhunter said.

[OBXPilgrim]

You know, I still find it slightly humorous to see people talking about what a *** their $350 H&R 38-55 is.

I've seen on lots of threads where other folks have high dollar, vintage Winchesters, & modern Uberti's that were made the same way (oversize bores), but the H&R is still junk. Guess the other folks may have already known what was coming & how to deal with it.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33151 (look at post #4)

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31643&highlight=.381

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11183&highlight=.381

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=9285&highlight=.381

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2863&highlight=.381

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=841&highlight=.381

I guess H&R have all been making there barrels wrong and finally quit, but Winchester and Marlin have been doing it wrong since the turn of the century - and Uberti more recently. Guess they are all junk, huh?

[leftiye]

OBX, Good point. We all everyday shoot guns that shoot fine, or great and assume that all is well. And unless you have a hand made custom gun from a top smith, your gun has probly got many variances from the ideal, or from "perfect" tolerances. Many of the "sloppies" we never find out about, and couldn't measure without special tools and taking the gun completely apart. Bad news is that we can measure things like bore, and groove diameter, and make chamber casts. And bad practice like shallow rifling does get noticed.