Universal for a Unique substitute in military rifles.

[kungfustyle]

Universal for a Unique substitute in military rifles: I have seen a adi powder chart that puts Universal within 5% burn rate of Unique. Lyman cast bullet handbook lists Unique for almost every military rifle. Would it be safe to substitute Universal for the starting load of Unique? Ed Harris lists 8 to 9 grains of shotgun/med pistol powder as a good load except for 7.62x39 (that's no more than 5g) in his cast in military wright up. I have a Mosin and an 8mm M48 that I'm toying with this idea. I'm running out of 4759 and I just bought a 4lbs of Universal. Under 10 grains or so for target stuff at 100 yards or so seemed appealing. Any experience with this powder in rifles?

[MtGun44]

No experience with Universal.

Not just burn rate, but also does Universal burn effectively and consistently at lower pressures? Unique DOES burn
well and consistently over a huge range of pressures, so is great for this.

I would start with a very low charge, maybe 5 gr or so and pull the bolt after each shot at first to verify that you
haven't stuck one in the bore. Once you get to 7 or 8 gr, start chronoing, and you should be able to get some
sort of a gauge on the pressures. Look for 1200-1400 fps or less and then, check for accuracy, which will tell
you something about the consistency of burning at lower pressures.

Good luck, be careful.

Bill

[kungfustyle]

Thanks for the input MTGUN44.

[Trapshooter]

I read somewhere (Handloader? Ed Harris? ) that Hercules (and I assume Alliant) tested their shotgun powders (red, green, and blue dot, herco and unique) beyond the range of pressures found in shotgun applications, to assure they were predictable / reliable for handgun and mid-range rifle use. If I recall correctly, the author claimed that Hodgdon's suppliers probably did not. For shotgun and pistol pressure applications, I would be fairly confident either could be used with suitable charge weights for the specific powder , outside that range, without a green light from Hodgdon, I would be very careful.

Best Regards

Trapshooter

[bdicki]

I use either one for my 28 ga skeet loads, but I prefer Universal.

[Ramjet-SS]

Universal will get to pressure faster so work up slow and watch for,pressure signs I would actually go slightly lower than Unique starting loads. I have used it for reduced loads in the 480 Ruger and the 45-70 with great success.

[kungfustyle]

Thanks that is what I was looking for. 7 or 8 grains for a 100 yard target load for 30cal to 8mm. 170g or so leads.

[JWFilips]

I have tried it: It is pretty close to my Unique loadings!

[guicksylver]

Actually I prefer it over Unique.
I have used it with great success in my 03' and 03a3's under a large range of CB'S

Very economical.

Doen't seem to be anywhere near as position sensitive as Unique.

My 2c's

I'll be glad to post pictures of groups if you like.

[PAT303]

It's a common powder for reduced loads over here,I use 5 grns under any 90-100grn boolit in my 303's for plinking,12grns under anything up to 220grn for 100m plinking,in my swede 10grns under a 150grn cast is very accurate at 100. Pat

[SSGOldfart]

I've never tried it that way,but Unique is a closer choice I think or you might want to look up H4895 it is about as close as your going to find,a truly all caliber Rifle powder for reduced loads too.try Hodgdon website.

[Geezer in NH]

The name of the powder is Universal clays. please lets all use the correct name on powders before someone who cannot figure it out hurt themselves.

[jmort]

"The name of the powder is Universal clays. please lets all use the correct name on powders before someone who cannot figure it out hurt themselves."

No, not true. It is "Universal" - that is the name Universal. Rather than trust either one of us, just go to manufacturer web site:

UNIVERSAL®http://www.hodgdon.com/images/uni1b.jpg
UNIVERSAL gunpowder handles the broadest spectrum of cartridges for both pistol and shotgun. This is the Clays gunpowder technology designed for 28 gauge shooters. From the 25 ACP to the 44 magnum and 28 gauge to 12 gauge, UNIVERSAL gunpowder provides outstanding performance. As with all the "CLAYS" gunpowder series powders, clean burning and uniformity are part of its attributes. Available in 1 lb., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

[jmort]

There is "Clays" and "International, but they are "Clays" and "International"
members need to pay attention so no one get hurt by putting out false information.

CLAYS®http://www.hodgdon.com/images/clays1b.jpgIntroduced in January, 1992, CLAYS gunpowder has "taken the clay target world by storm". It is the cleanest burning , most consistent 12 ga. 7/8., 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. powder available today, the preferred choice of competitive target shooters.. The superb burning characteristics of this powder produce soft, smooth recoil and excellent patterns. These features transfer directly to handgun applications where target shooting is the main goal. 45 ACP and 38 Special are only two of the cartridges where CLAYS gunpowder provides "tack driving" target accuracy with flawless functioning. Available in 14 oz., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.


INTERNATIONAL®http://www.hodgdon.com/images/int1b.jpg

INTERNATIONAL gunpowder is the second in the "CLAYS" gunpowder series of powders, bringing this technology to the 20 gauge reloader. It also works in 12 ga., 2 3/4" light, medium and heavy 1 1/8 oz. loads, and high velocity 1 oz. As with CLAYS gunpowder, clean burning and flawless functioning is the rule. Available in 14 oz., 4 lb. & 8 lb. containers.

[MtGun44]

NO! "Universal Clays" is a dead and buried name! Hodgdon is very sorry that they ever opened
that can of worms. They have had continuing problems with folks mistaking one powder for the
other, and dumped the word "Clays" off of all but the one pistol powder that is called "Clays". The
others are "International" and "Universal"....... and somewhere they say something like "with Clays
technology", or at least, they used to.

I am sure that there are old bottles out there and will be for decades, but the current names are
one word.

Bill

[35remington]

I have found Universal extremely position sensitive, more so than Unique, the result of deliberately orienting the powder in a number of cartridges. Don't let it wander greatly in the case.

[Ed in North Texas]

The best reason for substituting Universal for Unique is having Universal and not having Unique. Looking at Powder Valley (and they still have a listing for "Universal Clays", haven't had any in stock since the name change apparently), Unique was slightly less expensive. If the ballistics are essentially the same (we were talking about using Unique data with Universal) and the price is a bit lower, having one and not the other is a rational reason to use one over the other. I don't know if the shotgun applications of Universal are a positive over Unique, or also a wash ballistically.