hunting groups

[tdoyka]

while i sit here in bed because i hurt my back(esp when you have a disability:razz:), i thought of what do you consider yardage to be off hand and off of a rest/tree while hunting a deer/bear/hog/elk/what ever .

i used to be able to kill a deer at 125 yards with a tree and a ruger super redhawk in 44 mag. now, because i am one handed, i'm trying to find the best yards for myself. right now, off hand, i can do 15 yards(5 shots in 3-4") with my 44 mag. i'm going to try for 25 yards off hand.
off of a tripod/bipod i can go 50 yards 2-3 1/2". i'm using a 230gr wc(around #2 lyman or 15bhn) and trail boss. i have 250gr mihec hp(40 to 1, 8bhn) and unique that will be my hunting load.

i did try off a bench and the 230gr wc goes 1 1/4- 1 1/2" at 50 yards.


what is your hunting groups?

[ole 5 hole group]

I'm guessing you're using a scope at 50 yards off the bench and that's still a mighty fine group at that. As long as you can do 6 to 8 inch groups at 50 yards - you're good to go as far as I'm concerned. If you're using just one hand standing off your hind legs - make that minute of 10 inch pie plate. I can knock hell out of paper targets and occasionally my bullet will go exactly where I wanted it to go on big game - other times it goes close enough to count.

[Thumbcocker]

I use what .44 Man taught me.( don't know if he knew he was teaching me or not) Get a load that groups well and test it at 50 by shooting at stuff. Once my gun is zeroed at 50 yards (.44 magnum revolver) I spend as much time as I can shooting at soda can or smaller targets at 50 yards standing 2 handed hold. I almost never take an unsupported shot at a critter but this form of practice really helps with confidence. I also plink from a supported backrest position out to 100 yards at soda cns. Don't always hit them but can sure move them around some.

[tdoyka]

I'm guessing you're using a scope at 50 yards off the bench and that's still a mighty fine group at that. As long as you can do 6 to 8 inch groups at 50 yards - you're good to go as far as I'm concerned. If you're using just one hand standing off your hind legs - make that minute of 10 inch pie plate. I can knock hell out of paper targets and occasionally my bullet will go exactly where I wanted it to go on big game - other times it goes close enough to count.

i used a 2x(swift i think:confused:) scope about 20 years ago. i had a stroke 4 years ago and just plain forgot about the 44. i used it for about 2 or so months and then deer season started and i didn't feel comfortable. my right side(arm/leg) don't work so good:oops: (about 20% so the dr says). my right hand doesn't work at all:bigsmyl2:. but that ok, i shoot left handed (cross eyed dominant) anyway.

my ruger srh has a set of ruger one hole sight aperture(rear) and a marbles front sight on it. it works a h#@l of alot better than the factory sights!!! the one holer go about 1 1/2" while the factory sights got around 3 - 4" at 50 yards off the bench.

i did try it off hand at 50 yards, but i only got 1 out of 5 in a 6" circle (:holysheepnot gonna talk about it, but i will say paper can't run off due to a gut shot:sad:).

[junkpile]

tdoyka, I'm not going to say I feel your pain, but I've been going through some of the same struggles. Been disabled for 2 months now, since my surgeon hacked my knee apart and rebuilt it. I spend a lot of time laying in bed or on the couch, trying to do what I'm told, and my mind wanders all over the place. It's going to be nice to start being active soon.

I'd call those pretty good groups, as long as they're consistent. I can't tell you how many guys I've met that claim 2" groups. Once I get a chance to shoot with them, I find out that they got their tiny group one lucky time. I find my pistols and revolvers to be very challenging to shoot accurately and consistently. I'm just not as good as I wish I was. Probably why I like shooting them so much.

I usually tried for paper plates at 100 yards off of a rest. It's been my benchmark for a long time, but I'm still not super comfortable with longer shots on game. I'm just not that great with revolvers. And I'm too stubborn to try making it work with a monster auto. I'd rather grab my 12 gauge or a 30-30.

[tdoyka]

it took me about 250-300 rounds to get good enough since i started shooting the 44 mag a few months ago. 20+ years ago, it took a long time to get real good. my best 100 yard group(20 years ago)is 3/4" at 5 shots(200gr xtp/win296). it averages 1 1/4 - 1 3/4" at 100 yards. that is off a bench with a 2x scope. using a tree/shovel handle it goes to 3 -4".

but that was before i had a stroke. now, i'm content to shoot the ruger srh at 50 yards with a tripod. i can try to fiddle with the load, but at 50 yards with a tripod, 3 1/2" group(230gr wc) is about all i need. i haven't had the weather to go and shoot the 250gr mihec hp with unique yet, but i'll be more than happy if i can do a 3 1/2" group at 50 yards.

i did own a semi pistol(berrata m96 40 s&w) but i'm just revolver guy. out to 150 yards i have my 444 marlin and 30-40 krag to shoot deer with. over the 150 yards i can use my 270 or 6.5 creedmoor with ballistic tips.

i'm sorry about your knee. i never had it opertated on, but i screwed up my knee by streching every tendon that could be streched. that one hurt!!!

[Boolit_Head]

I tried a really long distance at one point with a scoped 10mm contender I had for a while. Managed to keep 5 shots inside a bucket lid at ~200 yards off a fence post.

[41mag]

Well I am nowhere near as good as I would like to be, but I seem to hold my own with the folks I shoot with.

My average groups at 25 are around 2" offhand with my revolvers. I usually shoot out to 50, 75, and 100yds from a rest to verify any new loads and then once I know they shoot, I start on me being able to shoot them.

All that said though for hunting deer I simply use the same criteria as I would if I were hunting with my bow and keep shots up close to around 25-30yds. I do this simply for the adrenalin factor that somehow seems to short circuit my brain and causes me to do things I might not ordinarily do. I have completely missed deer standing broadside at these type ranges due to not doing something I thought I was doing, so I keep things close just in case. You know those simple things you take or granted like looking at the sights but not through the peep on the string, or seeing the deers horns but not the sights on the revolver...Oh yeah it sadly happens even to someone who has hunted for 40+yrs.

[Lloyd Smale]

2 inch off hand at 25 yards is not average its fantastic. most 6 guns struggle to that off a bench. Shooting that well you should take up ppc shooting. 2 inch target and only 10 of the 30 shots you take are at 20 yards. the rest closer. move all 30 shots back to 25 yards and id be lucky to stay in the 280s. If I shot consistent 2 inch 25 yard groups id shoot a perfect score every match. As it is I'm a low 290s shooter, on a real good day a 295 and take first place in over half the matches I shoot and rarely take less then second. Paired up with a high 280s shooter and we will win about any team match I go to. It is a VERY rare handgun shooter that can shoot 2 inch groups off hand at 25 yards on there best day CONSISTANTLY.
Well I am nowhere near as good as I would like to be, but I seem to hold my own with the folks I shoot with.

My average groups at 25 are around 2" offhand with my revolvers. I usually shoot out to 50, 75, and 100yds from a rest to verify any new loads and then once I know they shoot, I start on me being able to shoot them.

All that said though for hunting deer I simply use the same criteria as I would if I were hunting with my bow and keep shots up close to around 25-30yds. I do this simply for the adrenalin factor that somehow seems to short circuit my brain and causes me to do things I might not ordinarily do. I have completely missed deer standing broadside at these type ranges due to not doing something I thought I was doing, so I keep things close just in case. You know those simple things you take or granted like looking at the sights but not through the peep on the string, or seeing the deers horns but not the sights on the revolver...Oh yeah it sadly happens even to someone who has hunted for 40+yrs.

[44MAG#1]

41mag,
Averaging 7.64 MOA with a handgun of any type is no small feat. Most High Master Class NRA bullseye shooter would like to be able to do that. But, then again they shoot one handed.
You are including all of your pulled shots in that 7.64 MOA right, not just the bulk of the shots?
Many people just measure the good part of the group and forget the rest.
May fedora is off to you sir.
You are someone to be admired.

[44man]

I don't like to shoot deer far but have, out to 120 yards off hand. Vision makes me use a red dot and has for a long time, I hate a scope for hunting.
I started deer hunting with recurve bows and have taken well over 150 with archery. A revolver just extends my range a little.
I can tell you a deer looks mighty small past 50 yards. My days of off hand are gone with shoulder injuries so I look for at least a forearm rest now. I also prefer 20-25 yard shots.
It has been only a few years from when I could hold 6" or better at 100, sometimes centering 6 out of 6 water bottles.
If you can hold about 3" at 25 you are good for deer.
However I still believe the most accuracy you can get from a rest is important because you need to add to that with shakes, etc.
The hardest thing to see is your ability to hold still go away. It will, there is no stopping it. My injuries have kept me from keeping strength up and strength is needed for shooting. My large calibers are getting hard to control. I can't pull my bows anymore either. They are dust collectors.
Do the best you can but don't quit. Use sticks, a tree or knees to keep from waving the gun all over the field and go hunting. Your next deer will be like the first.

[NSB]

It doesn't matter at what distance you can keep your shots inside a "minute of deer" group. Just hunt within that distance. If I was handicapped (let's call it restricted instead) I'd hunt as long as I could. Being out there and seeing deer and being with your buddies at camp, etc. is what it's all about. Killing deer is secondary. If you can still shoot deer and put the bullet in the kill area up to even 25yds with a rest, etc., keep hunting. I've shot a lot of deer in my life (I'm old and spend a lot of time at it) and by far the majority of them were probably within that distance anyway. You'll still be hunting and shooting deer working within those self imposed limits. If you like it and it's something you can do , do it. I remember my dad saying to me that he would quit hunting when they threw the first shovel full of dirt on his face. He came close, he got his last deer with a bow on his eighty-forth birthday. Hang in there and enjoy it.

[44man]

That was a great way to say it. I have always been a hunter of deer, never a shooter.
Not like my varmint hunting days when I wanted as far as could be done. Sniper stuff to beyond 600 yards on wood chucks. Just the pleasure of accuracy pure!
But there was not the thrill of an animal that can make you look silly. The closer a deer is the more skill you need.
Don't matter what you need to do to get meat, it is up to you. I want deer as close as can be done.
Even then, I want accuracy as best I can get. I am the fail point and hate any gun that fails.
I wish i knew what I do now about cast and revolvers when I was 18.

[41mag]

I am not sure what or how to comment on what I shoot. I could post a couple of targets but I usually do not take pictures, just shoot, pick up my stuff and go home.

I grew up shooting and still do it almost every weekend and I practice holding things as tight as I can. I don't think I am anything special and if put into competition would probably choke.

I have a couple of groups from the past with my 454 posted here that i shot from 25yds, just standing there with a two hand hold, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?122541-Did-a-little-shootin&p=1339994&viewfull=1#post1339994

Granted this was more or less load testing but the load still shoots just as well and I can still reproduce them.

Like I said I do not consider it anything special as I strive for all of my revolvers and pistols to shoot this well. Here are a couple standing two hand 10 shot groups from my 1911 at 10yds about three or so weeks ago. They were doing maintenance on the longer ranges, but this load will do as, or just about as good at 25 as well, I am usually the weak link.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160852&d=1455466969&thumb=1&stc=1http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160853&d=1455466983&thumb=1&stc=1

The group on the bottom was first and is more typical, the one on the top I got excited on #7 and blew it. Like I mentioned I dind't think this was overly spectacular or even real impressive to be honest, just out shooting on a nice Saturday. Now it makes me wonder more about some of the looks I was getting from some of the other folks...

[44man]

Now that is nice. dang, even exceptional. Wonderful shooting.

[tdoyka]

that is real nice!!!

[44MAG#1]

41mag,

Those targets after I pondered them, while good for many, really are about average if those squares are one inch squares.
The reason I say that is. If one can hold groups inside three inches at twenty five yards then at ten yards that will be a one inch group or there about. A two inch group at twenty five yards would be one third as big. Actually .67" at ten yards.
What did those groups measure from outside to outside of the widest shots?
just trying to wrap my head around what I am seeing based on the squares.

[tdoyka]

this is my ruger super redhawk in 44 mag. it is more than a little heavy(note my right arm:razz: which doesn't work) to shoot it much past 25 yards off hand. also note the warren's one hole sight and the marbles' front sight.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160214_140821_zpsuowqy3dd.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160214_140821_zpsuowqy3dd.jpg.html)

this is the target that i use. i try to get the shots all in the black, but every once in awhile they go into the white. thats why i'm still at 15 yards, i don't want to wound a deer. the / are part of a 6" "circle' which is a deer's lungs. i'm trying to do a 4" "circle" and then i can go to 25 yards. this is all one handed and nothing for a rest.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160214_140345_zpsl8usuvf5.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160214_140345_zpsl8usuvf5.jpg.html)

i did try a tripod at 25 yards, and i got 1 1/4 - 1 3/4" for 5 shots.

[44MAG#1]

tdoyka,

Keep on practicing. You will get them in the black at twenty five. I have confidence in you. With a heavy gun if you don't settle in your normal movement area in a couple seconds don't hold much longer.
Can you hold the sights in that 4 inch black at twenty five one handed if the gun is not loaded?
Sounds stupid but I have a reason for asking.
Can you hold on a 1.5 inch dot at thirty feet say inside the house or basement?
While at home hold the gun on a spot on the wall while you are piddling around. After awhile you will hold steadier as you build your arm strength and muscle memory.

[NSB]

tdoyka, I don't know how you hunt so I'll just pass along what I did for my dad. When he got to where he couldn't go up in treestands, I got him a ground blind. He ended up shooting three deer out of the blind the first year he used it. Some were pretty close. You might consider trying one if you already don't, and getting a shooting stick to rest the gun on. I think they make them with three legs as well as one and two legs. Find a good spot, put a comfortable chair or stool in there, and set up with your handgun and the shooting stick/tripod and wait for the deer to come to you. Just something to think about.....

[41mag]

tdoyka,

Your on the right track. It takes time to get proficient at any distance with both hands much less with just one as your doing. I highly commend you on your efforts and progress so far.

Like NSB mentioned though you can practice holding for small amounts of time even if it is with a small ankle weight on your wrist or by using a small dumb bell. Once you can hold things for a longer period you will be more stable as well.


44mag#1,


You are correct those are 1" squares on the orange targets. Did you however follow the link a little above them and also see the groups with the 1" square bulls on the other targets I shot in the same manner using my 454 with 300gr cast running in the mid 1500fps range?

[44MAG#1]

41mag,

Yes I saw them. What were the other holes around the main groups on a couple targets? We're that part of the group or something else? Just trying to get a grasp on things.

[Geezer in NH]

I use a paper plate, when I can hit it for every shot in the cylinder iron sights that is my max distance.

Longest shot I have made was with a rifle in 1973 and that was 75 yards in a field. My normal distance for deer or moose is about 30 yards. That works where I hunt revolver or flintlock rifle.

[Lloyd Smale]

my favorite field position is sitting on my but with my back up against a tree and using my two knees as a bipod. I can shoot as accurately like that as I can off a bench. Ive shot deer at a 100 yards and a bit farther like that. Off hand I wouldn't even attempt a shot past 50 and even 50 would have to be a perfect broadside shot. Probably 90 percent of the deer Ive shot with a 6 gun have been 15-30 yards. I set up to hunt deer with a handgun just like I do with a bow.
this is my ruger super redhawk in 44 mag. it is more than a little heavy(note my right arm:razz: which doesn't work) to shoot it much past 25 yards off hand. also note the warren's one hole sight and the marbles' front sight.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160214_140821_zpsuowqy3dd.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160214_140821_zpsuowqy3dd.jpg.html)

this is the target that i use. i try to get the shots all in the black, but every once in awhile they go into the white. thats why i'm still at 15 yards, i don't want to wound a deer. the / are part of a 6" "circle' which is a deer's lungs. i'm trying to do a 4" "circle" and then i can go to 25 yards. this is all one handed and nothing for a rest.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160214_140345_zpsl8usuvf5.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160214_140345_zpsl8usuvf5.jpg.html)

i did try a tripod at 25 yards, and i got 1 1/4 - 1 3/4" for 5 shots.

[tdoyka]

tdoyka, I don't know how you hunt so I'll just pass along what I did for my dad. When he got to where he couldn't go up in treestands, I got him a ground blind. He ended up shooting three deer out of the blind the first year he used it. Some were pretty close. You might consider trying one if you already don't, and getting a shooting stick to rest the gun on. I think they make them with three legs as well as one and two legs. Find a good spot, put a comfortable chair or stool in there, and set up with your handgun and the shooting stick/tripod and wait for the deer to come to you. Just something to think about.....

i do all that and then some!!! i used to have a quad and i would go into one (there's five) of my stands. but since i can no longer climb up, i go into a ground blind. to get me there i now use a polaris ranger utv. i have a comfortable chair that stays in the ranger. along with my other...well, c@#p that i use.:razz: i have tree stands along an old field, so i can drive up and hobble 20 or so feet and start hunting. there is one spot that i use i don't have to even have to get out and use the chair. i have had small 8 pts and does go right past me( 10-15 yards) and they keep on walking. i almost had a nice but just not good enough 8 pt walked by me and stopped broadside(12 yards). i was using my crossbow and i had it up, safety was off, crosshairs right behind the shoulder and i says to myself "oh its mine, but do i really want to shoot it." i passed on him, i was looking for the huge 10 pt that i seen the day before. i never got him but i did see him 3 or 4 times, just never got a shot/arrow on the 10 pt. i keep a tripod and a bipod inside of my ranger.

is it deer season yet?:-P[smilie=l:

[CLAYPOOL]

One of my old duck hunting buddies is using ground blinds. he is after me to use them also. I have my own farm and oil field tubing towers to hunt out of. Still shotgun hunting ( Illinois) and only carrying handguns. You just need a tower/rest/blind to hunt out of. Its a shame you ain't closer to take a look see....

[tdoyka]

my favorite field position is sitting on my but with my back up against a tree and using my two knees as a bipod. I can shoot as accurately like that as I can off a bench. Ive shot deer at a 100 yards and a bit farther like that. Off hand I wouldn't even attempt a shot past 50 and even 50 would have to be a perfect broadside shot. Probably 90 percent of the deer Ive shot with a 6 gun have been 15-30 yards. I set up to hunt deer with a handgun just like I do with a bow.

i used to take it deer hunting with a rifle or without. back in the day(oh my god i sound like my dad![smilie=l:) we used to hunt deer by driving them out of places you wouldn't even think about going. now its going to a spot usually right along a trail that by a road, climb up a prepostion stand, and wait until you are cold enough to start your car and go home. for me, i can't go deep into the woods and put my back up against a tree and wait until i'm cold enough to start still hunting. (i think that still hunting has become a lost art) its pretty hard for me to do that while holding a cane, bipod and a gun[smilie=l::groner:.
if and when i can put all 5 boolits into a 25 yard 4" circle off hand, i will def. call it a victory for disabled guys like me.

before i had a stroke, i could get them(off hand) in a 4" circle at 50 yards. any thing more that 50 i needed a shovel handle or a tree limb(this was before bipods came out). the farthest i ever got was around 125 yards and a nice tree limb was there for me. a 200gr xtp with a max charge tore up both lungs and then exited out (drt). i am rather proud of that shot with a six gun:-P but i wouldn't do it again!!!

today i will go with a 250gr mihec hp(40:1 or 8bhn) with a load of unique around 1000fps and go about 50 yards with a bi/tripod.

[44man]

I have always had a problem sitting past 10 and several hours in the evening.
Some guys STAND for 12 hours??? I can stand about two minutes.
My favorite hunting was tracking in snow.

[tdoyka]

I have always had a problem sitting past 10 and several hours in the evening.
Some guys STAND for 12 hours??? I can stand about two minutes.
My favorite hunting was tracking in snow.

i used to really like that!!!

[NSB]

I have always had a problem sitting past 10 and several hours in the evening.
Some guys STAND for 12 hours??? I can stand about two minutes.
My favorite hunting was tracking in snow.
I remember one time I was hunting on some property that had very few hunters on it all year. The land owner would let a few of his friends on it for gun season and you'd see one or two guys hunting there on opening day. I was in my stand before daylight and around half hour after it started getting light a guy walked by and saw me and waved and then turned and walked away. Later that day, just about quitting time, I saw the same guy coming down the hill heading out. He stopped and looked at me and asked if I'd been in that stand all day. I replied that I had. He just shook his head and told me, "I could never do that". There was snow on the ground and it was in the twenty's. That's pretty much how I hunt most of the time. I get out when I get a deer and that's about it. Good thing is though, I get a lot of deer hunting that way. It's definitely not for everyone. Late muzzle loader season I'll walk around a bit just to move some deer for my friends, but even then I stop and stand for long periods of time.