22LR lube.

[Traffer]

I recently have been reloading 22LR. What would you recommend for lube? I will have to lube them after I reload them due to the fact that I resize after they have been loaded.

[Lucky Joe]

Off hand I would probably try BLL, how in the heck do you reload .22LR. Maybe I don't want to know it would just turn into another project.

[MrWolf]

Also curious on how you reload them.

[victorfox]

Www.22lrreloader.comI thought about trying to get one of these but I'm already too busy andout of supplies to mess with centerfire... Lol

[GONRA]

GONRA's REALLY OLDE memory bank story that should be checked out by whoever can...

Assembled .22 LR rimfire "outside lubricated" round is run thru molten wax lube to coat the bullet.

Know for sure that decades ago one of the Huge US Ammo Companies
tried to switch from the traditional method to a solvent/lube wax solution.
Failed badly. Crappy .22 LR ammo leaded bores, caused all kinds of problems...
But the "new idea" came from "on high" so
Corporate worker bees had to "make do" with it for months.
Never heard how it was finally resolved.

Maybe it will give you guys some ideas....

[Outpost75]

When I come across old .22 LR ammo in which the lube is dried out, I simply wipe off the dried lube and lead oxide with a patch lightly wet with pure USP mineral oil, as I use them at the range, and then shoot them immediately. Old Eley Tenex in disintegrated paper boxes from the 1960s from a good target rifle with 10X Unertl, so salvaged will hold X-ring at 200 yards prone on the SR42 300 yard rapid-fire target scaled to 200 yards. If you are a good wind doper a Master shooter can clean the MR52 600 yard slow fire scaled to 200 yards.

If you want to bulk lube .22 rounds, use 45-45-10 from LSStuff and pour enough in a 100-round CCI tray to wet the bullets, stopping just short of the case mouth. Use the CCI 100-round box inserts to hold the rounds, dip in the lube, then keep the bullet noses pointed down, line up the lubed trays across the opening of a .30 cal. ammo can and let stand overnight until the rounds are dry. Then you can do any final profile sizing and crimp. Only a VERY thin coating is necessary. Lee Liquid Alox diluted 50-50 by liquid volume with mineral spirits will also work, as will a 1:3 solution of JPW and mineral spirits.

[randyrat]

I recently have been reloading 22LR. What would you recommend for lube? I will have to lube them after I reload them due to the fact that I resize after they have been loaded.

I know there is some cold weather right now and the Cabin Fever getting bad right now, but I just gotta hear how you reload 22LR Please we are all ears. I think it is a great show of ingenuity if you can make em work. I have heard of a couple stories on reloading 22 but I would like to hear your story

[Traffer]

OK, I would be happy to share the story. Should I open a different thread for it? I do not use the "Sharpshooter" Kit. I have made all my own tools.

[Traffer]

GONRA's REALLY OLDE memory bank story that should be checked out by whoever can...

Assembled .22 LR rimfire "outside lubricated" round is run thru molten wax lube to coat the bullet.

Know for sure that decades ago one of the Huge US Ammo Companies
tried to switch from the traditional method to a solvent/lube wax solution.
Failed badly. Crappy .22 LR ammo leaded bores, caused all kinds of problems...
But the "new idea" came from "on high" so
Corporate worker bees had to "make do" with it for months.
Never heard how it was finally resolved.

May it will give you guys some ideas....
What kind of molten wax lube would you folks recommend. It would seem to me just from inspection that modern 22lr has some type of Calcium Stearate lube. Maybe Calcium Stearate with bees wax? Wouldn't that put a thick coat on though?

[zubrato]

I've heard of good results from dipping just the lead portion of factory 22lr into hot Johnsons Paste wax.
I would assume you'd get best results by holding it in there for a little bit longer for a thin layer, so the wax isnt too thick and wont gum up your tubes/magazines.
Would love to hear more about your process, I know they make the 22lr reloading kits but I've seen reviews of it and it looks kinda shoddy at best.
Great to hear you made your own tools, you'll do very well here on CB. Welcome!

[birddog]

I'll pay my nickel a piece and shoot away, just got a case of 3250 rds so the grandson and I are good for a while.
Charlie

[John Boy]

Melt some 50:50 paraffin - beeswax with a 1/4 teaspoon of fine graphite. Stir in the graphite. Next add water and bring to a temperature so the 50:50 mix floats too the top. Hand dip the bullets. A thin coat of lube will be on the bullets. Set base down to dry
Don't like hand dipping? But bullets in a fine mesh strainer - dip in floating wax - shake to remove excess lube - rock the strainer till the lube dries

[longbow]

Believe it or not when I was a kid of about 14 or maybe 15 years old a friend and I ran out of .22 ammo at my parent's summer cabin and no way to get to town by boat for us. We had some black powder and .22 pellets so decided to try reloading .22 brass of which lots was laying around.

I made a little hooked spatula like tool out of some small diameter brass rod (much like the tool on that .22lrreloader website) then used that to clean out the rim space inside. Then we carefully ground up some strike anywhere match heads (just the phosphorous tips) and used the same tool to work some ground up match head into the rim, fill with BP then push a .22 pellet on top.

Amazingly enough they worked. We did get frequent misfires but a better priming compound of potassium chlorate and sulfur should solve that.

We didn't put any lube on but then didn't shoot that many rounds either. It was more of an exercise to see if it would work and it did.

The biggest drawbacks were poor priming compound and the fact they had to be single loaded so a fresh bit of rim could be positioned for the firing pin. We reloaded some brass three or four times.

Of course smokeless powder, better priming compound and real .22 boolits and lube would be far superior to what we were doing. But reloading .22 rimfire can certainly be done.

Contrary to what is said in the .22lrreloader website though I have to think a moderate size centerfire round like .357 mag (or your choice) would be a far better option and recharging the center fire primer should be no more difficult than priming a .22 rim.

Either would be strictly a "survival" activity in my opinion though and even then, where do you get priming compound and powder? In that situation, I think a traditional bow and arrow would be your friend and both can be made from natural items along with a bowstring. Anyway, that is a whole other discussion.

Oh, another drawback of reloading .22's using match heads... the occasional burned finger when grinding up match heads. Do that in small amounts and away from anything flammable or explosive!

Longbow

[Eutectic]

I would be very careful using any lube containing Alox-606... (read Lee Liquid Alox) Unless you like fliers that is! It is just too much for the 'soft' .22's.

I had some very old Federal standard velocity .22's. I wiped them with Vaseline and let the white (lead oxide) soak an hour or so.... Then wiped them clean with rubber gloves on. Then a VERY LIGHT rub of Vaseline again so light you can barely feel it. These were just as accurate as the ammo was some 40 years ago.

Eutectic

[runfiverun]

back when JD was working on the 45/45 lube I was working on a similar lube that coated like 22 lr lube does.
what I come up with was a mix of 3 parts jpw cooked down and 1 part beeswax. [by liquid volume]
this dries very hard and will coat very thinly when mineral spirits and heat are used in the coating process.
anyway the cook-off of the jpw to make 45/45/10 lube was a direct result of this lube being made and tested.

[Jeff Houck]

I've had good results by wetting my thumb and next 2 fingers with anhydrous lanolin and then spinning the bullet between my 3 pinched fingers. The finished bullet has the same wet shine of my various high priced target ammunition.

[Traffer]

OK, thanks everyone for your input. Here is some of my testing so far: Factory loads are about 7 BHN (pencil test estimate). I have tested loads from 7 to 12 BHN. I could use anywhere on the scale depending on the diameter. I have found that (like many have said) hard bullets with narrower diameters lead the barrel. The hardness of the lead, diameter of the bullet and powder charge all have to be dialed in. Harder bullets are much easier to work with and I can get better consistency with my loads with at least 9 10 BHN. For the first 4 or 5 hundred rounds I was using a lube that I just concocted without much knowledge which consisted of basically bees wax and Permatex 81343 Anti-Seize Lube. I can't even remember the proportions. Roughly 50/50 I guess. It seemed to work very well to prevent leading but the only thing I compared it to was a Johnson Paste Wax/calcium stearate/ beeswax mix roughly equal parts by volume. I used that concoction on hard bullets around 11 to 12BHN. (I was afraid to run hard bullets with larger diameters for fear of overpressuring so the hard ones were kept at or under .2235"). I have run soft (7 BHN) bullets all the way up to .228" with no problems. I bought a bottle of Lees Liquid Alox. It came very thick. I know I can thin it but thought I would try it thick first. I have lubed various loads with it but haven't tried them yet. At this point I have only used my reloads in a single shot rifle. I now want to standardize my loads and start using them in my semi-auto. I am pretty sure I am going to go with a load which is 9 to 10 BHN. at .2245 to .225", 38 grain slug and a powder charge just slightly hotter than factory. (I don't want to publish my powder type and charge yet. That is still somewhat of a secret at this point) I have loaded 22's so far from very very mild. (sling shot velocity) to very very hot. I don't have a chrono so I can't give any definite figures but I have loaded them so hot the casings ruptures and sent shock waves back through the bolt. Hah it was funny at the range. After one shot my gun sat there and smoked from all around the bolt while I wondered if I had blown up the gun. I know, I know, I can hurt myself. That part of the experimenting is over. (Just fyi, I had never reloaded anything until starting this experiment with rimfire about 4 to 5 months ago. ) I knew nothing. I didn't even have a powder scale. I didn't even open up a factory round to see how much powder appeared to be in there. Now I have a powder scale and have the powder charge pretty much in control. I will be posting a detailed account of my procedure with photos for those who wish to try it. Back to the lube. Since experimenting with lube is very time consuming, requiring lots of test shooting, I thought I could narrow down the testing by asking folks here. Hah. Now I have even more to scratch my head over. (Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the input, but would like a nice base to start from. I was going to start with liquid Alox and build from there. But after Eutectic's post #14, why is liquid alox not good for softer bullets? I hate buying stuff I won't use. That is part of the reason I make my own stuff. Anyway, thanks and keep your suggestions coming. I will eventually figure it out. It is great to be here.

[Eutectic]

I was going to start with liquid Alox and build from there. But after Eutectic's post #14, why is liquid alox not good for softer bullets? I hate buying stuff I won't use. That is part of the reason I make my own stuff. Anyway, thanks and keep your suggestions coming. I will eventually figure it out. It is great to be here.

It has nothing to do with hard or soft bullets Traffer. It has to do with C.O.R.E. (Consistency Of Residuals Encountered) What each bullet sees in the bore shot after shot has to be uniform or accuracy goes down the tube. Bad thing in my testing was accuracy may start simply stellar and then go to pot 10 or 12 rounds later!
I tried liquid alox on several different .22's and never had lasting results.... I had one big lot of Remington 'Golden Bullets' that shot 4 out of 5 into a 1/2" group at 70 yards from one of my very accurate 'varmint' rifles. There was always one, sometimes two, out an inch or so in the groups. This lot had nil for lube on them. I cleaned an lubed some very lightly with LLA... Two five shot were like 3/8" and I thought I licked the flier problem..... The third group didn't have a flier either but was about 2"! I cleaned the gun and had similar results the second time. The .22 can't purge liquid Alox correctly shot to shot was my guess.

I would try for a simple thin wax lube that would dry hard if it was me WITHOUT ANY ALOX!

Eutectic

[Traffer]

Thanks, now we are getting somewhere. I have experimented in dehydrating soap to get he calcium stearate. I like that stuff. If I could get it applied evenly and thinly I would like to use it. as I understand Liquid Alox uses Calcium Stearate. Johnsons Paste wax was the worst stuff that I tried. Maybe I did something wrong applying it. And I have found that not all residuals are the same. Some "dirt in the barrel" seems to affect the bullet much more than others. For instance, The Beeswax/Anti-Seize that I have used leaves a lot of residual but it doesn't seem to affect the next shot. Sorry I am not arguing just my way of figuring things out here.

[Traffer]

You idea looks pretty good to me. I like the graphite lube idea. A couple of questions. What kind of bullets have you tried this with? It sounds easy enough to try out. At least to see how thick the coating would be.
(referring to post by Jonboy12 post #14)

[mdi]

I cleaned up a bunch of old 22 lrs a while back and re-lubed them with a "sorta" 45-45-10. I used paste wax and a bit of alox (very little) and thinned the mix with mineral solvent. The ammo was dipped nose first in the thin mix. I think thin is the key. All shot fine and as accurate as new...

[Traffer]

I cleaned up a bunch of old 22 lrs a while back and re-lubed them with a "sorta" 45-45-10. I used paste wax and a bit of alox (very little) and thinned the mix with mineral solvent. The ammo was dipped nose first in the thin mix. I think thin is the key. All shot fine and as accurate as new...
Excuse my ignorance. What are the 45,45,10 ingredients and proportions?

[Mica_Hiebert]

Factory 22 are lubed with straight paraffin wax just a dip in melted wax and let them air dry.

[runfiverun]

it's johnsons paste wax melted down and the solvents cooked off.
then an equal amount of [liquid] alox is added in and 10% mineral spirits to finish it off.
the mineral spirits percentage isn't overly important and more won't hurt anything since it evaporates as the lube dries.

[fryboy]

i'd go either with the 45/45/10 on a warmed boolit and with the lube warmed or something like rooster jacket ( which seems eerily similar to many factory 22's i have sen ) or maybe even ben's liquid lube , the rooster jacket i know dries hard with no tack at all ( havent tried the B.L.L. yet )

[Traffer]

Factory 22 are lubed with straight paraffin wax just a dip in melted wax and let them air dry.
How do you know that?

[leadman]

IIRC the guy that is the chemist at Rooster Labs is Dwayne. He told me that his Rooster Lube which is a liquid is what he sells to most of the ammunition companies. I know some members here have used this to lube their boolits.
I would melt down some of my LBT Blue Soft or Carnuba Red to dip the boolits in after they are lubed.

[Traffer]

back when JD was working on the 45/45 lube I was working on a similar lube that coated like 22 lr lube does.
what I come up with was a mix of 3 parts jpw cooked down and 1 part beeswax. [by liquid volume]
this dries very hard and will coat very thinly when mineral spirits and heat are used in the coating process.
anyway the cook-off of the jpw to make 45/45/10 lube was a direct result of this lube being made and tested. I have been trying something similar. Roughly equal parts JHP, Beeswax and Calcium Stearate from dehydrated Jergens hand soap) I leave it in a lump and rub it on with my fingers. I will be trying the dipping method with your lube thinned with mineral spirits.

[Chill Wills]

Factory 22 are lubed with straight paraffin wax just a dip in melted wax and let them air dry.

I think if you ask ten different 22lf manufacturers what lube they use and you will get ten different answers; assuming you get any answer at all.
Check out Eley as an example. They have two lubes at least, neither paraffin as I recall. My recaller sometimes ain't so good these days :razz:

I do not know what the Best way of re-lubing old dried out Match 22lr ammo is, but I have had great outcomes with simply putting a small blob of soft SPG like lube in a cotton rag and wiping the exposed lead with the rag. Just gently clean off the old and replace a THIN gloss of new..... Leave no extra on it. It does not help - it hurts.

[John Boy]

IIRC the guy that is the chemist at Rooster Labs is Dwayne. He told me that his Rooster Lube which is a liquid is what he sells to most of the ammunition companies.
I tried Rooster Jacket on the bullets for my 22 BP reloads. Using it straight, I've found that when it dries - it flakes off the bullets.
Maybe a 50:50 mix of Rooster Jacket and paraffin with a 1/4 teaspoon of fine graphite

[Traffer]

I think if you ask ten different 22lf manufacturers what lube they use and you will get ten different answers; assuming you get any answer at all.
Check out Eley as an example. They have two lubes at least, neither paraffin as I recall. My recaller sometimes ain't so good these days :razz:

I do not know what the Best way of re-lubing old dried out Match 22lr ammo is, but I have had great outcomes with simply putting a small blob of soft SPG like lube in a cotton rag and wiping the exposed lead with the rag. Just gently clean off the old and replace a THIN gloss of new..... Leave no extra on it. It does not help - it hurts. Please excuse my ignorance, I have only been reloading for less than 6 months. What is "SPG"?

[Chill Wills]

SPG is a commercial bullet lube. Lots of places sell it. Emmerts lube is about the same and is homemade. DGL or others works too. Look at the Midway or other mail-order places.
If you are a cast bullet caster and shooter it is good to try using these or making some - very useful stuff.

[Traffer]

back when JD was working on the 45/45 lube I was working on a similar lube that coated like 22 lr lube does.
what I come up with was a mix of 3 parts jpw cooked down and 1 part beeswax. [by liquid volume]
this dries very hard and will coat very thinly when mineral spirits and heat are used in the coating process.
anyway the cook-off of the jpw to make 45/45/10 lube was a direct result of this lube being made and tested.I am curious about this recipe and technique. Firstly, when you cook off JPW, aren't you removing the mineral spirits? Then adding mineral spirits later? I just made a similar lube and have been applying it. (haven't fired any of these yet though) The way I am doing it is by carefully rubbing the mix to the bullet with my fingers. I am next going to try warming the mix and dipping the bullet (lead only) and letting it dry. Another mix I want to try is a mix of liquid Alox (don't tell eutectic) and beeswax heated with mineral spirits and dipped. I am drawn to the fact that alox has calcium stearate in it. My experiments show that calcium stearate is extremely slippery. Seems to be excellent for the slide and action lube for my Norinco 213.

[rwadley]

I have heard of people using mink oil or Preparation H (in a tube). I have never lubed 22lr, so I can't give any suggestions based on experience.

[Mica_Hiebert]

How do you know that?

Because I manufacture 22 amunition for a living.

I can tell you all cci rimfire bullets are just straight paraffin wax and I would venture to guess our sister company federal uses the same process.

[Traffer]

Because I manufacture 22 amunition for a living.

I can tell you all cci rimfire bullets are just straight paraffin wax and I would venture to guess our sister company federal uses the same process.
Wow, now I am talking to the right guy here. I just developed a lube that I like. It is basically just powdered soap (calcium stearate I believe) and beeswax melted in mineral spirits. I dip it and let it dry. Seems to be a little harder than factory lubed ammo but I like that.
I may be having more questions for you in the future, concerning the reloading of rim fire ammo.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have used a lube of castor oil/bees wax with soap flakes cooked down until its a thick solid. works good for magnum pistol loads. a little over kill for 22, straight bees wax or parafin is fine for 22. not sure too much of my knowledge will be too helpfull for the home loader its prety amazing the commercial loading vs what one traditionally thinks of when hand loading ammo.

[randyrat]

The trick to make lube stick is dip while the bullet is still warm to hot (too hot very little will stay on the bullet) into lube. Adding a slight amount of Vaseline to Paraffin will also help it stick and be a bit more flexible, less likely to dry and flake off. You could add a very small amount of Lanolin instead of Vaseline, very small amount. That would be where you have to experiment a bit.