sorry fans of coated bullets

[Lloyd Smale]

this may seem like a minor annoyance to some but I'm a bit old school and think your coated bullets are but ugly. Yes I realize they work but so do old school lube sized bullets. I don't want a pink or lime green pickup and don't want my bullets that color either. Maybe if they made a clear coating it would make me take a second look at it.

[Hickok]

Smoke does have a clear coat.:bigsmyl2:

[carbine86]

smoke also offers a silver coating.:bigsmyl2:

[high standard 40]

I have nothing against the color choices anybody makes, but I do have to say that a lot of what I see is not for me. In that regard I agree with Lloyd. I have yet to try powder coat but I have tried the original Hi-Tek copper color. It showed no real advantage to me over traditional lubes, at least not in the applications I tried it in. I may give powder coat a try some day but I would limit my color choices to Silver (looks similar to cast lead), Copper (looks similar to jacketed), or a dark blue (looks like old S&W Nyclad).
But I encourage all of you powder coaters to soldier on. Thinking outside the box leads to innovation.

[Hickok]

Lloyd I have seen some pictures of the clear coat the fella's put up, and you can't even see it except for a shine/polish look.

[carbine86]

I have nothing against the color choices anybody makes, but I do have to say that a lot of what I see is not for me. In that regard I agree with Lloyd. I have yet to try powder coat but I have tried the original Hi-Tek copper color. It showed no real advantage to me over traditional lubes, at least not in the applications I tried it in. I may give powder coat a try some day but I would limit my color choices to Silver (looks similar to cast lead), Copper (looks similar to jacketed), or a dark blue (looks like old S&W Nyclad).
But I encourage all of you powder coaters to soldier on. Thinking outside the box leads to innovation.

with pc I get between 40-100 fps faster with the identical load as compared to traditionally lubed cast.

[Hickok]

160618Lloyd I am an old grey dog too, and I don't want a pink pick-up either. Now I could go for this pick-up.:cool:

[nagantguy]

It's not for everyone, just like them new fangled metallic cartridges that came out some years back. But through lots of test and trials I've found pc boolits have an fast advantage, as as accurate or as close not to matter as traditional lubed boolits, no leading ever and a cleaner bore. A side advantage is I can color coat my loadings and know at a glance what they are.....and another, young kids, like my daughter niece and nephew think they look cool, ask about them and have wanted to make more range trips with me after watching the baking process. And I can now use one method/type for rifle pistol and muzzle loader no matter season or temperature. And so far my 2 year long term storage tests are showing that the pc will last in its current state as long as the brass cases will. And I get less smoke at indoor ranges /idpa shoots. And it helps me to realize my dreams of becoming a mad scientist, with various air guns, containers, rakes trays, ovens and home made tools ........Its alive......it's alive!. And one more thing, nothing against traditional lubes but where I can do so many an hour in my Lyman I can shake and bake or spray 100's at a time. Reading some of Larry Gibson's posts on another forum it seems pc may not be ideal for HV rifle, but we are working on it . And my big bore revolver and muzzle loader tests have shown velocity and accuracy on par with jacketed.

[Walkingwolf]

Different strokes for different folks. As far as ugly, mehhhh. My edc belt has 18 Bayou Bullet red copper 38spl, and I still get positive feedback about both my GP100, and the cartridges in my belt.

[osteodoc08]

To each their own. At least we're all shooting. My mentor at age 73 has started powder coating virtually everything. He has his own indoor range and with the lubes, get a bit smokey despite 2 huge ventilation fans. With PC, you can't even tell you've shot. He has landed on the Harbor Freight Red as his favorite. I prefer traditionally lubed boolits.

[Shepherd2]

I don't coat bullets myself and I don't plan to at this point. I do buy Bayou's coated bullets and shoot them in matches. I've shot in many matches on a hot, humid day where the targets disappeared in the smoke from loads using conventional lube. There's not much you can do then except shoot where you think the target is or wait for the smoke to clear. Either way it doesn't help your score. Other shooters I've talked to use coated for the same reason. Some I've talked to switched from jacketed or plated bullets to coated and like the cost savings.

Coated bullets solved the smoke problem for me. I still cast and lube bullets for practice sessions.

[Sam Casey]

I don't cast my own; rather buy both Bayou (coated) and Dardas (lubed). Both are excellent products. I am not skilled enough to see any difference in accuracy. The Bayou are cleaner to handle while loading and gun does not seem quite as dirty after shooting, but like the perfect circles a Dardas WC make in a target.

[dragon813gt]

I agree that they look horrible. To many things in life are already "fashion shows". It seems bullets are on that list. They do make a clear coating. It's the process time and lack of performance that keeps me from going down the PC road. Everyone is free to do as they wish. But I do laugh and think most of the pics posted look ridiculous.

[flyingmonkey35]

A properly sized and lubed boolit is a lot of fun and shoots great.

And can have zero leading.

That being said a lot of indoor ranges don't like them for that extra greasy / smelly smoke.

If I only shot outdoors I am think I'd just lube in 45-45-10 and blast away.

Its not the color of the coat its the protection it offers.

But if the color is off putting meh.

[jmorris]

If you shoot them instead of looking at them it helps.

[jlchucker]

The way things are going these days, it may be wise to have at least a box of defense loads ready, with the boolits carrying bacon grease in the lube grooves.

[gpidaho]

I use Eastwood clear powder coat. You can just tell folks it's your own special hard lube. Gp

[mozeppa]

i do it for my wife who shoots.

she is prone to putting the wrong caliber cases in the wrong magazines ...or guns.

purple is .40 and goes in purple dotted mags then into the 1911 with the purple dot on the grip base.

yellow is 45 acp ......yellow mags....................................1911...... .......yellow dot .........grip base.

re is 9mm..............red mags........................................1911.. ........and so on.

[bangerjim]

You are definitely in the minoriy on this one my friend!!!!!!!

Those of us (MANY thousands!) that ARE into PC'ing like the variety of colors.

"Life is in technicolor........enjoy it!"

I despise gray/silver boolits. So there, I am the total opposite of you.

If you want to live your shooting life looking thru gray-tinted glasses, get some of that clear PC as referenced above and use that. I personally see it as a waste of time.

But ANYTHING/ANY COLOR is better than dirty old sticky grease.


banger

[dragon813gt]

Minority? That's a very bold statement. Don't let your opinion cloud your judgement.

[aspangler]

I too think that they are "U"gly. I have no trouble getting to 2200fps in a 30-06 with LLA or 45-45-10. NO LEADING and they SHOOT GOOD.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

sorry fans of coated bullets:

this may seem like a minor annoyance to some but I'm a bit old school and think your coated bullets are but ugly. Yes I realize they work but so do old school lube sized bullets. I don't want a pink or lime green pickup and don't want my bullets that color either. Maybe if they made a clear coating it would make me take a second look at it.

Thanks Lloyd,
I totally agree. But I will admit, when I seen this post in this forum, I suspected there would be some hard feelings from the Pro-PC crowd about posting this here (much like I feel when I see the negative lube posts, from a Pro-PC member, in the lube forum)...and I am happily surprised to see NO degrading posts. Thank you all, for playing nicely.

[cigarman454]

Maybe if they made a clear coating it would make me take a second look at it.
Looks like your about to join the PC Bullet Club.

[RogerDat]

Another tool in the toolbox is always a good thing. Especially since the cost and effort required to give it a try is minimal. Folks find the colored ones "too funny", "cute", "look like lipstick", "cool" so it is a heck of a starter for conversations about casting and reloading. Powder coat provides a direct route to non fouling gas system bullets, which can be done with lube and cast but at a different skill level and with more equipment costs. I'm out what $20 and I can make good 7.62x39 rounds. At that point who cares what color they are, lets just go see how accurate they are eh?

Then there is the decorator aspect. What is not to love about a box of red, white, and blue 45's looking all pretty and patriotic. Or some green "zombie apocalypse" rifle rounds or hollow points. If I get some of the bright yellow I'm going to take my daughters suggestion and draw little smiley faces on the RFP's of the 255 grain ones in my 45 colt. Looking at it from the business end gives whole new meaning to "Have a Nice Day!" She also suggested I load with all different colors so if anyone broke in I could say do you want to..... "Taste the Rainbow?". Now that conversation, and laughter we shared was brought to you by powder coating so that gives it 1 ++ in my book.

Is PC better than a traditional lube and sizer process, or worse? I don't think better, or even worse are valid terms for this. Like it or don't like it are. Free country and folks buy cars in different colors if you like a plain gray it's fine with me, if I want a lime green with red, white, and blue.... well ain't choice a wonderful thing?

[sqlbullet]

I don't care what they look like if they work well and are cheap. I love 1911's, but carry a Glock. And my PC bullets are whatever color I get cheap, that works.

[brtelec]

I use the color to indicate the load or firearm they are intended for. My wife loves to go to the range and show off her pink 9mm ammo stating that they are for her pistol only. Other women at the range love the fact that she has her own pistols and accessories all the way down to her ammo. If it gets her to the range with me more often I am a fan.

[FredBuddy]

Opened up a whole new world of boolit fitment for me, without expensive custom dies, sizers, etc. The satisfaction on the faces of kids and non-shooters after successfully firing a cute boolit in an ancient 45-70 buffalo rifle is worthwhile, too.

[dahermit]

I have posted it before, but will again in this context. I prefer bright colors for powder coating as opposed to clear, silver, or any other lead-like color for the purpose of being very apparent as to how well the bullet is coated and how thick the coating is. It strikes me that a lead-colored coating those two issues would not be so apparent. But, not having tried lead-colored (or clear), I can only surmise.

[fredj338]

They are consumable goods, I make them then throw them away downrange. I don't really care what color they are but PC in copper or bronze would satisfy those that don't like to shoot skittles.

[DerekP Houston]

Ive been using the bronze 500 and black hi-tek along with hf red. Don't really care about what the boolits look like, get questions about colors usually, but they do perform well for me. Most of the ranges I visit are indoors so the smoke factor and cleaning part was my main concern. If i'm lazy I still use alox and just deal with the smoke. Got 5 jars of the stuff anyways might as well use it up. If I had bought a lubrisizer instead of the lee push thrus I'm sure I would still be using it as well.

[JSnover]

Never tried it but I suppose if I do I'll coat them black. Like the evil in my bitter, Bible-clinging heart. Or maybe black for when the gov't stormtroopers start lobbing flash-bangs through my windows. Or maybe black in memoriam for any game animals I might kill. Or maybe black so I can tell the Range Ninjas they're Special Top Secret Special Ops ammo. Or maybe black so I can get my groove on with some Johnny Cash while I load them.

[OS OK]

"Boy…you stirred the wasp nest this time…maybe it's because you compared them to the wrong 'but'?
Didn't you mean 'butt'?

Speaking of 'butt' I got awarded 5 points in my 'criminal folder' for calling it what it really is!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Lloyd,

If you don't drive a black truck or car, you cannot be old school; Henry and Louis only made them in black in the beginning.
Next, you'll tell us you have indoor plumbing...

[Magana559]

I like all three methods. Grease, tumble, and coatings.
All have erks and downfalls.

[Walter Laich]

To each his own.
Just got in Smoke's purple and jet black. I like the look of the black against wet tumbled brass. Nice contrast.

Wife likes the zombie green and purple. She and her girlfriend are getting ready to take CHL and with downloaded powder charges and PC bullets it didn't seem so intimidating to them.

I like to use the colors at the cowboy range cause it messes with people's minds.

But I also want to believe and I know they are out there.

[dikman]

Colours? When mine are stored they're nose down in boxes, so can't see the colour. When they're loaded, can't see the colour. When they're fired, definitely can't see the colour! When I'm reloading, yes, I can see the colours - at last. Me, I went to coating because of the no-leading bit, no seating issues and the boolits are clean to handle once coated. The colours are a bonus! A lubrisizer setup, by the way, was going to cost me lots of money down here, plus I'd read reports of people having issues with them, so I wasn't keen on going that way.

As for the leading issue, a colleague at the range recently gave me some lubed .38 sp that he was trying to use up, and both of us suffered horrendous leading! That in itself was enough to get me looking at coating.

It's good that we all have options, and can use whichever suits us. Fortunately, I haven't been involved in this game very long so don't have to worry about "old school" feelings :bigsmyl2:.

[slim1836]

I see a poll coming on.

Slim

[rbuck351]

I am considering PC but only if it works better for HV rifle than grease lubed boolits. The PC has no advantage to me over grease lubed unless it will perform better. I don't care for the brite colors, I don't care if they smoke or not. Leading Does not happen with my lubed boolits. My Star is as fast as any method of sizing, push through or otherwise and it lubes only where you want the lube. And they come out of the mold into the sizer and they are ready to shoot. Nothing else to do. Hard lubes aren't messy. So do PC boolits work better? If not, I have no use for them. I'm still looking for someone that can give me some real performance numbers that are better than my lubed boolits. Anyone got some numbers?

[Finster101]

Thanks Lloyd,
I totally agree. But I will admit, when I seen this post in this forum, I suspected there would be some hard feelings from the Pro-PC crowd about posting this here (much like I feel when I see the negative lube posts, from a Pro-PC member, in the lube forum)...and I am happily surprised to see NO degrading posts. Thank you all, for playing nicely.


I'm fine with Lloyd's opinion. No one is forcing him to use them and so far no one is telling me I can't.

[DerekP Houston]

I'm fine with Lloyd's opinion. No one is forcing him to use them and so far no one is telling me I can't.

Indeed, why does it matter what someone else is using? I just like how we have multiple options now to do the same thing and aren't limited to vendor specific products.

[rsrocket1]

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder

:troll:

[TexasAggie06]

This may sound a bit ghey, but I'm 32 years old and have always been involved in some sort of creative arts, I played the trumpet for 15 years, I dabbled in wood working with my grandfather, hell I even got into culinary arts. Bottom line is that I need a creative outlet and powdercoating bullets is a great hobby for that. You think it looks ugly, fine, don't really care, but for me it's more than just looks, it's a cathartic journey that needs attention every day.

[flyingmonkey35]

I am considering PC but only if it works better for HV rifle than grease lubed boolits. The PC has no advantage to me over grease lubed unless it will perform better. I don't care for the brite colors, I don't care if they smoke or not. Leading Does not happen with my lubed boolits. My Star is as fast as any method of sizing, push through or otherwise and it lubes only where you want the lube. And they come out of the mold into the sizer and they are ready to shoot. Nothing else to do. Hard lubes aren't messy. So do PC boolits work better? If not, I have no use for them. I'm still looking for someone that can give me some real performance numbers that are better than my lubed boolits. Anyone got some numbers?
Nope.

But the data has been proven time and again on a lot of posts that it us the same as lubed.

Lubed bullets work great. No need to change unless you want to try something new for fun.

That's what this is about fun.

[hickfu]

I still use the lube/sizer on some but Powder coat the rest. I am thinking of going all powder coated because I have small grandchildren around and dont want them touching the bare lead. I wont have ones sitting around that look like skittles either for them to put in their mouth. I do like some colored and when I make them I put them away where the kiddies cant get to them.

I am still trying to figure out the reason for this thread... to me it like creating a thread that states someone doesnt like women with big breasts.... who cares? its personal preference.

Just my .02

[shoot-n-lead]

Well, my bullets ain't got to please you....:bigsmyl2: or anyone else, for that matter.

Long as they please me...that is all that counts...and they certainly do.

[leadman]

I like how clean it is to load and shoot Hi-Tek coated boolits. I get no more smoke than what the primer and powder makes. I still will use conventional lube if I need a particular boolit that is not coated yet, like when loading up initial loads for testing.

[rbuck351]

Thank you flyingmonkey35. I do like a straight up honest answer. I may try it anyway, just for fun, but I won't be doing it with unrealistic expectations. I am thinking about boring out a Lee mold that casts under size to make a groovless boolit that can then be powder coated. This would make a very simple fix for a worthless mold. Also I have a Swag-O-Matic that will make boolits of a variaty of nose shapes, diameters and weights. They would be straight sided as well but that wouldn't matter for PC. Hmmmmm, more stuff to play with.

[MediumCore358]

I jumped into powder coating at first enjoying the new colors , but soon missed the classic lead look. I'm waiting on an order of smokes clear powder and I think it'll work nicely for my needs. Keep in mind I went from tumble lube to pan lubing then powder coat..if I had a lube/sizer I may have stayed there that's classic in it self.

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry but looks does matter to me. I don't want a high point pistol either. Sure they work but there but ugly. A kia soul or a Honda element is probably a great suv but there but ugly and ill never own one. I'm not going to run to the hardware store and buy pink or purple paint for my house either! Now learning here after posting this that's theres clear would make me think but bottom line is I have about 20 years of shoot left (if I'm very lucky, probably 10s pushing it) and lube sizing has gotten me through the last 30 just fine and I'm sure its going to keep working for me. Now maybe if I was just starting out casting Id look hard at it. Before I invested in lubesizers dies, lubes ect. I guess it comes down to it being just a bit late to teach this old dog new tricks. It worked for elmer and it works for me. I think hed kick your but if he saw you at the range with a PINK BULLET!!!!! Personaly I could care less if someone else does it. Heck maybe if we all used pink and purple bullets the liberals would think we were more like them and leave us alone. :redneck:

[Lloyd Smale]

I don't think I'm in a minority here. I think theres as many old school casters here as they are new school high tech ones. Id bet if you looked youd find most of the coated bullet guys are younger guys and most with the same opinion as me are they guys that have been at this 20 or 30 years. Nothing wrong with new technology and maybe 20 years from now lubesizers will be nothing but antiques. Don't know and don't care because ill probably be in the ground by then anyway. I think what it comes down to is the old school casters here that have been at this for 20 years or more and refined there casting to the point it works perfectly are going to be skeptical about some new thing that revolutionizes casting. I heard the same **** when lee alox first started being toted as the end all. Heck if nothing else id miss the smell of brewing a pot of felix lube or the smell of the lubesizer heating up. Its like the smell of hoppes or burnt gunpowder and bullet lube at the range to me.
You are definitely in the minoriy on this one my friend!!!!!!!

Those of us (MANY thousands!) that ARE into PC'ing like the variety of colors.

"Life is in technicolor........enjoy it!"

I despise gray/silver boolits. So there, I am the total opposite of you.

If you want to live your shooting life looking thru gray-tinted glasses, get some of that clear PC as referenced above and use that. I personally see it as a waste of time.

But ANYTHING/ANY COLOR is better than dirty old sticky grease.


banger

[William Yanda]

My wife told me my taste was in my mouth, so what do I know. But someone else said.....
Oh yes; "The deer don't care."

[Sitzme]

Well Lloyd, I am middle aged (If I live to be 114!) and I have been trying PC. It was cheap to get into and if I decide to go a different direction, I still learned something. The pros and cons have been debated so I won't go there. Given the huge numbers of people involved, I suspect that the PC group actually is the minority but it doesn't matter. I encourage you to try the shake and bake method, dumped on a screen, using a toaster oven. $20 to see what the fuss is all about. My PC boolits are not pretty due to the screen dump but they work and my hands are a little cleaner after reloading. Don't stop trying new things because sooner or later you won't have a choice. Cheers.

[Dragonheart]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whatever works for you, go for it. I personally think powder coating is the most innovative thing to happen to casting since the first guy poured lead into a mold. Mainly because powder coating is not just a lube.

However, I started casting over 50 years ago and handloading before that. In my younger years I was heavy into competition for many years, earning three NRA Master Certifications in Rifle and have been an avid shooter ever since. I am not saying this to brag, but to point out I have put about as many rounds down range as anybody. So when someone tells me they shool lubed lead bullets and get no leading in the barrel I have to say BS. Lubed lead bullets leaves lead in the barrel; Jacketed bullets leaves copper in the barrel.

[Amiaji]

To each his own I suppose. I started out tumble lubing with alox but didn't like the tackiness left behind. Then I tried BLL and that leaves a waxing feeling on the bullets. So now I'm trying PC. I'll find what works best for me and 20 years from now when there is a whole new way of doing things I will just continue doing it my way.

[vrh]

Gosh......I would hate to know how many lead bullets that I have casted and lubed ( I'm 71 yrs old) . Never really got rid of all the leading problems. Wife didn't like the smell of the lube either.
Got into this PC thing and have enjoyed the benefits of dry tumble method. Bought a spray gun but don't use it.
I PC for my 38 Spec, 40 S&W, and my 30-06 rifle.
To each his own.

[bangerjim]

I don't think I'm in a minority here. I think theres as many old school casters here as they are new school high tech ones. Id bet if you looked youd find most of the coated bullet guys are younger guys and most with the same opinion as me are they guys that have been at this 20 or 30 years. Nothing wrong with new technology and maybe 20 years from now lubesizers will be nothing but antiques. Don't know and don't care because ill probably be in the ground by then anyway. I think what it comes down to is the old school casters here that have been at this for 20 years or more and refined there casting to the point it works perfectly are going to be skeptical about some new thing that revolutionizes casting. I heard the same **** when lee alox first started being toted as the end all. Heck if nothing else id miss the smell of brewing a pot of felix lube or the smell of the lubesizer heating up. Its like the smell of hoppes or burnt gunpowder and bullet lube at the range to me.


I hate to argue with you, but you posted this in the "ALTERNATE COATINGS" thread and here, my friend, you ARE in the minority! I am not talking about the entire almost 40K group of members (most of which are totally inactive anyway!) but ONLY here. You crossed the threashhold into the PC house and we discuss and use PC here, not grease. Most of us do not go into grease-only forums and discuss PC at length like you did here.

Some use both. No problem there. And from what I have read, most of the people using PC are NOT "young" fellers. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.........when those new tricks are really fun & cool! People at the ranges are totally fascinated with my process and performance when they see my green and blue and red and flatt black boolits.

Try it, you will like it. Even if it is only clear. You will not see a spec of bare or greasy lead in my shop. All boolits are plastic coated.....and they are DEFINITELY not pink or purple!

That's life.......live it to it's full! No matter old or young.

banger

[Don Fischer]

I PC'd my first bullet's last night. Called Bronze Titanium, look's like gray to me. I wanted some color close to a gray bullet. This pretty much did it. I don't really care for the bright color's but if you need to tell the difference between a 32 short and a 44 mag, colored bullet's sure help. "-) I only coated my Lee tumble lube bullet's. My bullet's with lube groves I'll still lube, I kinda like using my lubesizer! The LLA worked fine but I always ended up lubing twice because I was always worried about not having enough lube on them. Then they get pretty sticky to handle and I don't care for that. Even when loaded they are sticky, lubed are'nt. I even sized and gas checked my rifle bullet's. Seem's like everyone put's the
GC on after PC and they say it's harder to get them on then. I just figured if the PC doesn't hurt the barrel being in the bullet, it shouldn't on the GC either.

[dahermit]

...if you need to tell the difference between a 32 short and a 44 mag, colored bullet's sure help. "-) You are assuming that color coding is just for telling the difference between cartridges, however it can be used to color code different loads. For example, Red Powder Coated bullets for .44 magnum hot loads...Blue Powder Coated bullets for mild .44 magnum plinking loads.

[Schrag4]

I agree that they look a little weird, but I still do it. I'm a function-over-form kind of guy when it comes to most things. I care nothing about how they look and everything about how they shoot.

I really like the ability to color-code your ammo, so if/when I get a little more variety in my casting loads, I'll likely get some other colors. That's a great function of PC, something that can only be achieved by a couple of other methods that I can think of, none of which are all that appealing to me.

[hickfu]

Which ever way you lean (PC or conventional grease lube) As long as we still cast and shoot our own home made boolits.... thats all that matters

[Friar_Tuck]

This thread amazes me! When I saw the title, "sorry fans of coated bullets," in the forum dedicated to PC and alternates, I was sure it would go south. I did not even open it for a while as I was sure it was a troll. Once it stuck around a while I braced myself and dropped in. I am pleasantly surprised to see the high level of civility here! There are so many things that we can find to divide us, it is great to see that we can discuss our different opinions and still stick together. I really enjoy Powder Coating, wild colors and all. I have been reloading for decades, but just got into casting. When I started, I decided to try powder Coating first so I could avoid the cost of a good lubrisizer. Once I saw the results, I was hooked. I try my best to be at the range when no one else is there, so in the end there is only one person that sees my boolits, and I enjoy them. Thanks for making this such a great site!
Jim

[Motor]

You are 100% correct Jim.

It's too bad the "HOLY BLACK" crowd can't use this thread as an example to live by. [smilie=l:

Motor

[jcwit]

Lloyd, I'd suggest trying it.

I went to a local powder coater and got a small amount in a paper cup, gave it to me for free. It happened to be red.

Went home and did the shake & bake method using a small plastic container like cole slaw comes in at a deli. Didn't even use any plastic BB's. Baked the cast bullets for 20 min. at 400 degrees. Turned out fantastic. Cost? (0)

My bullets are now clean and produce zero leading. Cleaning the barrel amounts to running a wet patch down the bore.

BTW the amount of powder the Amish shop gave me coated approx. 1,000 bullets. All 9mm.

[mannparks]

Tonto liked the lone rangers bullets

[dikman]

Motor, I'm going to load some coated boolits with the Holy Black, that way I get the best of both worlds.:lol:

[Circuit Rider]

I'm in my mid 70's and don't do NEARLY as much shooting as most of you guys. But since I started powder coating a year ago, I spend less time with cleanup. I've got my Daughter and Granddaughters(ages 17 and 15) shooting. How did I get them interested in shooting? Pink and Purple boolits using Smoke's powder. What ever it takes to get them interested. CR

[Smoke4320]

I'm in my mid 70's and don't do NEARLY as much shooting as most of you guys. But since I started powder coating a year ago, I spend less time with cleanup. I've got my Daughter and Granddaughters(ages 17 and 15) shooting. How did I get them interested in shooting? Pink and Purple boolits using Smoke's powder. What ever it takes to get them interested. CR

Man that makes me happy .. Our only hope is to bring as many NEW people to shooting as we can .. girls and women especially !!

[Lloyd Smale]

your probably right in that I'm in the minority on this sub fourm for alternate coatings. I guess that's like going on a ford fourm and bashing a mustang. But id say if you look at the whole membership on the entire cast bullet forum I'm far from the minority. Id say good old lube sized bullets are used by members here 10 to 1 (at least) over coated bullets. Some of you are reading me wrong. I never said your partical coated bullets didn't work. What I said is there but ugly.

As to some here claiming you cant avoid leading with lead bullets ill say this. Sized properly and lubed with a good lube I will say that NONE of my guns leads excessively. Ive never had to scrape the lead out of any of them and if you are your doing something wrong or your gun is a ***. Like was said even jacketed bullets leave some fouling and I would imagine that coated bullets leave coating on the rifling. A small amount of lead in your barrel hurts nothing. Leading to me is when it effects accuracy. there isn't a gun in my safe that I shoot cast bullets through that I couldn't go out and shoot 5000 bullets out of without cleaning. As a matter of fact I rarely clean any handgun barrel. Only time I will is when I'm know I'm going to put that gun away for more then a year.

Ive got a couple 1911s that I shoot ppc with that I don't know how many rounds have gone through them without cleaning the barrel but 5000 passed by a long time ago. bottom line here is the only place I can possibly see an advantage is high speed rifle bullets and ive had pretty pathetic luck using cast bullets on deer in calibers below .35 anyway so my flat shooting guns get jacketed. I just don't see a need to push a cast rifle bullet to 2700 fps. Maybe you do and that's ok.

If you cant keep your handgun from leading up even with lee alox you either aren't sizing correctly or have a gun that needs fixing. You can put a bandaid on it by coating your bullets or by trying softer alloys to bump up ect but its still a defective gun that in my opinion should be fixed or sold. Now ill bow out of here. Like was said this is a coating sub forum and Me and elmer aren't welcome here[smilie=l:
I hate to argue with you, but you posted this in the "ALTERNATE COATINGS" thread and here, my friend, you ARE in the minority! I am not talking about the entire almost 40K group of members (most of which are totally inactive anyway!) but ONLY here. You crossed the threashhold into the PC house and we discuss and use PC here, not grease. Most of us do not go into grease-only forums and discuss PC at length like you did here.

Some use both. No problem there. And from what I have read, most of the people using PC are NOT "young" fellers. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.........when those new tricks are really fun & cool! People at the ranges are totally fascinated with my process and performance when they see my green and blue and red and flatt black boolits.

Try it, you will like it. Even if it is only clear. You will not see a spec of bare or greasy lead in my shop. All boolits are plastic coated.....and they are DEFINITELY not pink or purple!

That's life.......live it to it's full! No matter old or young.

banger

[JSnover]

Id say good old lube sized bullets are used by members here 10 to 1 (at least) over coated bullets.
Hey Lloyd, how long have cast boot shooters been sizing and lubing as we know it today?
Now, how long has PC been around?
That might explain the disparity. For quite some time you have had the ability to buy your boolits cast and lubed commercially. If you're not already able to by commercial PC boolits, I'm sure you will be by the end of the year. Heck, it won't surprise me if someone says they already received a made-for-the-purpose PC starter kit for Christmas or their birthday.
The first days of new technology are always terrible, because it's still being developed and it has to overcome resistance (bias, like yours). The last days of old technology are always terrific, because everything is dialed-in, everybody knows how it works and exactly what to do.
I don't powder coat but I'm pretty sure I'll be in the minority someday.

[dverna]

The vast majority of cast bullets shot are pistol bullets. This is the "easiest" application for any lube. Both acceptable accuracy and negligible leading are well with reach of most.

I do do not use coatings but they are a good way to achieve relatively high production rates with minimal expense. Personally, I think BLL is a better option but it will smoke more than coatings if that is a factor. For many shooters, coatings make a lot of sense. That is why more people are doing it. THEY ARE NOT NUTS!

Nothing currently available will beat a Star for speed and consistency. But how many people need that speed or can justify the expense? Coatings will give about half the production rate at a quarter the investment. What is not to like? And for those who are too lazy or inept to work up the right load, with the right alloy, and the right sized diameter, coatings appear to be more forgiving. Heck, look at all the threads about leading in 9mm and .40 S&W!!!

[doghawg]

I have a Star, Lyman 450, and RCBS II each with different lubes. Also have LLA, LLA mixed with floor wax, and a jar of Harbor Freight red and a Cool Whip bowl and....they all work. It's nice to have choices!

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess I have to ask. Don't you have to size a bullet just like you do with conventional lube? yes I know bullets can be shot unsized but its not every bullet that will allow this and still produce peak accuracy. So if I have to run them though a sizer doesn't that make it more work because when they go through my star there done and ready. With a coating I still would have to coat the bullet. yes I sure it could be used like a lot of beginners do with alox but not to many that become serious casters don't size there bullets. So this to me would be more of a replacement for tumble lubing then it would be a replacement for lubesizing. More for economics then for performance.
The vast majority of cast bullets shot are pistol bullets. This is the "easiest" application for any lube. Both acceptable accuracy and negligible leading are well with reach of most.

I do do not use coatings but they are a good way to achieve relatively high production rates with minimal expense. Personally, I think BLL is a better option but it will smoke more than coatings if that is a factor. For many shooters, coatings make a lot of sense. That is why more people are doing it. THEY ARE NOT NUTS!

Nothing currently available will beat a Star for speed and consistency. But how many people need that speed or can justify the expense? Coatings will give about half the production rate at a quarter the investment. What is not to like? And for those who are too lazy or inept to work up the right load, with the right alloy, and the right sized diameter, coatings appear to be more forgiving. Heck, look at all the threads about leading in 9mm and .40 S&W!!!

[blikseme300]

I have a Star, Lyman 450, and RCBS II each with different lubes. Also have LLA, LLA mixed with floor wax, and a jar of Harbor Freight red and a Cool Whip bowl and....they all work. It's nice to have choices!

Well put, PC just adds another tool or option to the mix. It is not a replacement of all that came before that magically allows super accurate shooting. There is much more than just coating that affects accurate shooting and terminal performance.

[Lloyd Smale]

kind of my point. Some think that all they have to do is coat there as casted bullets and magically there going to be able to bypass everything that us bullet casters have to overcome. Its just a coating. No different the alox tumble lubing other then it might be a slightly better lubricant. Tumble lubing came along and was toted as being the end all bullet lubricant. Some said the lubesizer was dead. Well the experience casters found out different. Yes it works but you just cant cast some bullets our of whatever alloy you have and coat them unsized and expect them to give you the ultimate in accuracy. I think some there think its some kind of magic potion that makes everything before it obsolete..
Well put, PC just adds another tool or option to the mix. It is not a replacement of all that came before that magically allows super accurate shooting. There is much more than just coating that affects accurate shooting and terminal performance.

[Hickok]

160962Well Lloyd, I figure I might as well tell my secret. I have some one who helps me out with my PC by adding pixie dust!:bigsmyl2:

No, she doesn't have any sisters or cousins!

[Dragonheart]

As to some here claiming you cant avoid leading with lead bullets ill say this. Sized properly and lubed with a good lube I will say that NONE of my guns leads excessively.

Kudos to Lloyd, for admitting what all of us old timers know; regardless of the amount of residue lubed/coated alloy, copper jackets/plate and Moly all leave a residue in gun barrels. Powder Coating is only one way I have found to get around this residue that bonds to the barrel steel.

What most seems to be missing is PC when properly done is more than a lube, it is more than a coating, it is a polymer jacket. We are not just applying grease or just a lubricating coating we are making Jacketed Bullets. So between the processes lubrication is the only issue for compairson and in our tests PC provides approximately a 4% velocity increase over several tested bullet lubes.

Beyond the lubrication compairson, with proper thickness and curing when a powder coated bullet engages the rifling the bullet alloy conforms to the lands and grooves, but the alloy itself does not contact the metal barrel. The bullet is literally riding on this hard tough polymer jacket, providing superior lubrication and protecting the bullet's base from gas erosion/blowby like a gas check. It is the toughness of this polymer jacket that is resisting the shear force allowing higher chamber pressures/velocity than what the alloy alone could withstand. A bullet alloy can be hard to the point of being brittle, but the alloy is not tough. The same goes for copper plating, which is pure copper and copper lacks toughness. This lack of toughness is the reason for the velocity restrictions on plated bullets as the copper plate at higher pressures will be literally torn away from the alloy.

PC bullets leave no leading residue and the only debris that I have been able to discern that remains in a relatively clean barrel is residue from the combustion.

So to all those that are happy with lube, stay happy and continue on. But I and most of us Powder Coaters here on in the "Coating & Alternatives" are into "Alternatives" and very happy creating our colorful "Polymer Jackets". Maybe if you start thinking of it as making a jacketed bullet and not just a lubricant you will give it a try?

[mto7464]

For me the biggest advantage was being able to use cast in my 300 blackout ar15. No lube or lead to foul up the gas system. Used traditional lubed bullets in an M1 carbine and over time the system had some lead in it so I stopped but PC will allow me to go back to using cast. PC will not work in every application, as I have found, but it solved all problems for me in an AR platform. Now to find a proper mold for my 6.8 spcII.

[Lloyd Smale]

now theres a practical application. No claims of being easier, cheaper or more accurate. I have shot alot of lead out of my beowulf. Now with hard alloys and if i use a harder lube fouling isnt to bad but eventually it will catch up to you. I wonder if after a period of time you would get a build up of coating in the gas system? Anyone shot a thousand or so and checked?
For me the biggest advantage was being able to use cast in my 300 blackout ar15. No lube or lead to foul up the gas system. Used traditional lubed bullets in an M1 carbine and over time the system had some lead in it so I stopped but PC will allow me to go back to using cast. PC will not work in every application, as I have found, but it solved all problems for me in an AR platform. Now to find a proper mold for my 6.8 spcII.

[flysubcompact]

I'm new to reloading/casting. As a beginner, I was at the stage where I was Aloxing my castings and was going to invest in a traditional sizer/lube rig, but that is when these PCing topics came up. I was going to buy a lubrisizer, but decided to try PC instead.

I don't care what color they are. I'm a utilitarian sort and PC accomplishes what I need...not as smoky, no leading, no precise lead alloys and nothing I've PCed so far has tumbled in flight. Plus, with Alox, I'd have to wait a week for that mess to cure and they were still tacky. I can cast a bunch, let them cool, PC and shoot them that day. That could happen with a lubrisizer, but I chose this way instead.

My daughter likes the pretty red ones. They slap steel, accurately, so that is all I care about.

[flysubcompact]

For me the biggest advantage was being able to use cast in my 300 blackout ar15. No lube or lead to foul up the gas system. Used traditional lubed bullets in an M1 carbine and over time the system had some lead in it so I stopped but PC will allow me to go back to using cast. PC will not work in every application, as I have found, but it solved all problems for me in an AR platform. Now to find a proper mold for my 6.8 spcII.

I have no desire for an AR15 rifle, except for one in 300BLK (if I could cast my own bullets). What mold/alloy do you use for your rig?

[flyingmonkey35]

I guess I have to ask. Don't you have to size a bullet just like you do with conventional lube? yes I know bullets can be shot unsized but its not every bullet that will allow this and still produce peak accuracy. So if I have to run them though a sizer doesn't that make it more work because when they go through my star there done and ready. With a coating I still would have to coat the bullet. yes I sure it could be used like a lot of beginners do with alox but not to many that become serious casters don't size there bullets. So this to me would be more of a replacement for tumble lubing then it would be a replacement for lubesizing. More for economics then for performance.
I size all my Boolits after powder coating in a Lee push thru sizing die. I do not use any lube at all they just pop through.

[RogerDat]

...... Plus, with Alox, I'd have to wait a week for that mess to cure and they were still tacky. I can cast a bunch, let them cool, PC and shoot them that day. That could happen with a lubrisizer, but I chose this way instead.

My daughter likes the pretty red ones. They slap steel, accurately, so that is all I care about.

Look up 45/45/10 or Bens Liquid Lube. Both are made using Lee Liquid Alox mixed with either Johnsons Paste and a dash of Mineral spirits or mixed with Johnsons Liquid wax. Takes tumble lubing to a way happier place. Dries non-sticky and dries quickly. I tend to do them day before but to the touch they are dry in a few hours. Tiny squirt in a half gallon zip lock baggie, on bullets pre-warmed with wife's blow dryer, tumble and dump.

I PC too but for bulk cranking out of pistol ammo I like tumble lube with these home brewed solutions better. Takes about 20 minutes to lube hundreds. I still do some PC for them after all daughter and grandkids as you note think they are neat, I think wife gets kick out of them too.

[flysubcompact]

Look up 45/45/10 or Bens Liquid Lube. Both are made using Lee Liquid Alox mixed with either Johnsons Paste and a dash of Mineral spirits or mixed with Johnsons Liquid wax. Takes tumble lubing to a way happier place. Dries non-sticky and dries quickly. I tend to do them day before but to the touch they are dry in a few hours. Tiny squirt in a half gallon zip lock baggie, on bullets pre-warmed with wife's blow dryer, tumble and dump.

I PC too but for bulk cranking out of pistol ammo I like tumble lube with these home brewed solutions better. Takes about 20 minutes to lube hundreds. I still do some PC for them after all daughter and grandkids as you note think they are neat, I think wife gets kick out of them too.

Thanks, Roger. I will write that down in case that info is needed one day.

[opos]

Got lung problems..can't shoot un coated lead unless I shoot jacketed..I could care less what color they are

[mto7464]

now theres a practical application. No claims of being easier, cheaper or more accurate. I have shot alot of lead out of my beowulf. Now with hard alloys and if i use a harder lube fouling isnt to bad but eventually it will catch up to you. I wonder if after a period of time you would get a build up of coating in the gas system? Anyone shot a thousand or so and checked?
I am up to 500 plus in my 300 BO and I have not seen any lead anywhere. When trying traditional lubed bullets my buddy who is a long time caster was getting a little lead in his ar.

[mto7464]

Right now the only bullet I can get to work with PC is the Lee 235 grain make for the BO. It drops undersized but after PC'ing it I run it thru my 311 sizer, which is undersized too, and it gets me to 310 from the rear band up to just short of the front band. Not perfect but it shoots okay. I only shot out to about 50 yards with it right now and it hits the gong. Using a mix of lino and wheel weights.

[JSH]

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger Lloyd. I have tried powder coating myself it kinda sorta worked. Several have told me to switch coating powders to a better brand. I suppose this to be true as there are variables in lubes as well.
I look at PCing to be another tool in the tool box. Though I will say it may just mask an on going problem by not leading, as it is a coating rather than a lube.

Leading, any significant leading is an issue as far as I am concerned. It will get worse before it gets better from my findings. If it leads or fouls I want to know why and cure it.

My my brand new 41 mag hunter caused me grief with PC and standard lube, though the PC was a bit easier to remove. None the less still was a fouling and caused grouping issues.

As mentioned above a useful and civil thread. Carry on gents.
Jeff

[Motor]

Motor, I'm going to load some coated boolits with the Holy Black, that way I get the best of both worlds.:lol:

As a matter of fact I have some 250gr REAL PCed and ready to shoot. I used to use A-Lox on them. They will be pushed by Pyrodex though. :)

I was thinking about something the OP said about ugly cars. The funny thing is ugly car like "ugly bullets" can't be seen from the drivers seat. So as long as it's getting the job done or getting you where you need to be, who cares. ;)

Motor

[dikman]

Who cares indeed. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to use whatever suits them, for whatever reason. I'd read about coatings, of course, but didn't really understand it and wasn't that interested because what I was doing was working for me. When I started single action shooting I soon realised I was going to be reloading a lot more than I needed for target shooting, then after my first run-in with bad leading I figured there had to be a better way. Coating is it, ticks all my boxes and no negatives thus far. And the colours are a talking point.

I loaded a few .38 with BP (the real stuff ;)) and used Hi-Tek gunmetal boolits, 'cos of the dark colour! I'm not telling anyone, should give them a surprise at the next shoot (just hope I can see the targets through the smoke :lol:).

[lxk308]

PC'ng bullets is not for everyone. Your next stop should be the Ruger forum, or Glock forum, or Sig forum, etc. and post how their guns suck.
At the very least it made for a five page thread (so far)...

[bangerjim]

As to some here claiming you cant avoid leading with lead bullets ill say this. Sized properly and lubed with a good lube I will say that NONE of my guns leads excessively.

Kudos to Lloyd, for admitting what all of us old timers know; regardless of the amount of residue lubed/coated alloy, copper jackets/plate and Moly all leave a residue in gun barrels. Powder Coating is only one way I have found to get around this residue that bonds to the barrel steel.

What most seems to be missing is PC when properly done is more than a lube, it is more than a coating, it is a polymer jacket. We are not just applying grease or just a lubricating coating we are making Jacketed Bullets. So between the processes lubrication is the only issue for compairson and in our tests PC provides approximately a 4% velocity increase over several tested bullet lubes.

Beyond the lubrication compairson, with proper thickness and curing when a powder coated bullet engages the rifling the bullet alloy conforms to the lands and grooves, but the alloy itself does not contact the metal barrel. The bullet is literally riding on this hard tough polymer jacket, providing superior lubrication and protecting the bullet's base from gas erosion/blowby like a gas check. It is the toughness of this polymer jacket that is resisting the shear force allowing higher chamber pressures/velocity than what the alloy alone could withstand. A bullet alloy can be hard to the point of being brittle, but the alloy is not tough. The same goes for copper plating, which is pure copper and copper lacks toughness. This lack of toughness is the reason for the velocity restrictions on plated bullets as the copper plate at higher pressures will be literally torn away from the alloy.

PC bullets leave no leading residue and the only debris that I have been able to discern that remains in a relatively clean barrel is residue from the combustion.

So to all those that are happy with lube, stay happy and continue on. But I and most of us Powder Coaters here on in the "Coating & Alternatives" are into "Alternatives" and very happy creating our colorful "Polymer Jackets". Maybe if you start thinking of it as making a jacketed bullet and not just a lubricant you will give it a try?

Well stated!

Mabe those out there that call our little hobby just "painting boolits" will someday realize what we here in the alt coatings forums have know for some time.........PC brings so much more to the game than just perrdy colors!!!!! No leading, not fouling, no grease, no grease smoke, no sticky boolits. What's not to like?

bangerjim - "Polymer Jacket Specialist" [smilie=p:

[rbuck351]

Well, I'm going to give it a try even though I have no noticeable leading or fouling and I don't shoot indoors so no noticeable smoke problems. There is grease and it can be sticky or not depending on the lube but that doesn't bother me. Some folks have indicated that I might gain velocity with PC in my rifles and hopefully maintain accuracy. With pistol rounds, powder capacity seems to be the limit not the boolit, so I see no possible gains using PC over lube sizing with the Star for my pistol use. As they need run through a sizer after PC, just sizing has to be quite a bit faster than doing the PC thing and then sizing anyway. Testing will tell if the extra effort to PC is worth it for me.

[Dragonheart]

OK, another reason for powder coating; Polymer Jackets (PJ) created by the powder coating process virtually eliminate feeding problems in semi-autos, both rifle & pistol. A PJ bullet will reliably feed when bare lead, plated, coated and metal jacketed bullet will not.

[rbuck351]

Now there is a really good reason for PJ if you will. I don't have that problem but I can see how it would help.

[bangerjim]

OK......add that to the list of abbreviations we all use (for those that are anal about that kind of thing).

PJ = Polymer Jacketed

I like it. Thanks, Dragonheart.

banger

[Dragonheart]

Banger, I think we are all so tierd of defending the PC process as just as a lubricant we need to get others to realize the Powder Coating process really is making Jacketed Bullets, with many benefits other than just a lubricant. I believe PJ is the future of cast bullets, evidenced by commercial companies now getting into PC. You were one of the lucky ones that got in at the start, I wish I had found PC sooner, but so happy I here now.

[BILLYBOB44]

I'll tell you how much...Too cold to cast in the garage right now..I have a GOOD stock of SNS, and Missouri Bullet Co. projectiles--So Guess What?? HA HA..Been boiling some bullets, and washing wax off to powder coat.

Have done .40 S&W 180gr., 9MM 125gr. Small Ball, and some 45acp. 230 LRN..

I think I'm HOOKED!!HA HA...


Should be in the 60's tomorrow, so I'll fire up the pot+cast some..


Thanks all of you for the help..Bill.:shock:[smilie=l:

[WMB30]

lxk308, what forum has the negative 5 pages regarding PC'ing. It sure isn't on the Ruger forum

Bill

[typz2slo]

I have John Deere green so my boolits match my tractor.

[bangerjim]

That is smart! If you miss the target and hit the tractor, the green boolit color will fill in the hole!

HA.......ha!

[Red River Rick]

One would almost think that after five pages, the OP would be considered as "Trolling".

RRR

[typz2slo]

I am new to casting but not reloading and I didnt want to like powder coating. I was using a Lyman 45 to traditional lube my boolits and liked doing them that way. I finally broke down and powder coated. Not for color but for less mess using my bevel base molds. I do not have a lube heater and was using TACX and it worked fine but smokey. Nobody wanted to shoot down wind of me. I tried powder coating on a whim and the smoke went away. I do not see any time saving but its cleaner than the traditional lube with my set up.

[Motor]

I am new to casting but not reloading and I didnt want to like powder coating. I was using a Lyman 45 to traditional lube my boolits and liked doing them that way. I finally broke down and powder coated. Not for color but for less mess using my bevel base molds. I do not have a lube heater and was using TACX and it worked fine but smokey. Nobody wanted to shoot down wind of me. I tried powder coating on a whim and the smoke went away. I do not see any time saving but its cleaner than the traditional lube with my set up.

Sounds familiar. Real familiar.

I used to skim through the forums and when I saw powder coating I used to shake my head in dis-belief.

Then one day I happened to read about shake and bake and HF Red. I already had a toaster oven that wasn't used in 20 years and ASBBs were all over the house already so I figured, why not ?

That's the day the world of shooting cast boolits forever changed for me. And I'm loving it. :bigsmyl2:

Motor

[vzerone]

For me the biggest advantage was being able to use cast in my 300 blackout ar15. No lube or lead to foul up the gas system. Used traditional lubed bullets in an M1 carbine and over time the system had some lead in it so I stopped but PC will allow me to go back to using cast. PC will not work in every application, as I have found, but it solved all problems for me in an AR platform. Now to find a proper mold for my 6.8 spcII.

If you're fouling the gas system of an AR (or any gas system rifle) you're doing something wrong. AR's don't foul nearly as much as one may think over another type of gas system.

[RP]

Has anyone else noticed that if someone goes onto a thread and post a negative comment (why they feel the need to do so is unknown) Those who like whatever they are speaking of go into making the sale mode. You see it over and over most of the time it gets ugly and the thread has to be removed and infractions are handed out. I just like to say PC must have a effect on those who use it and it clams their tempers since this is still going. Thanks guys for being adults lets keep the name calling and other insults out.

[tiger762]

Thank you for sharing that :D


this may seem like a minor annoyance to some but I'm a bit old school and think your coated bullets are but ugly.

[slide]

Everybody wants to be right. I do what works best for me. It might not work for someone else. If someone is interested in what I am doing I will help them as much as I can. If they don't like what I do that is okay too. If all this arguring is a indication of the mentality of gun guys and casters then we might as well go ahead and turn our guns in. Some simple thing like bulletcoating tears this forum apart then we don't stand a chance of standing together on anything. United we stand,divided we fall!

[Gremlin460]

My Star is as fast as any method of sizing, push through or otherwise .

Uhuh..of course it is..

[Spector]

Quote ''If all this arguing is a indication of the mentality of gun guys and casters then we might as well go ahead and turn our guns in. Some simple thing like bulletcoating tears this forum apart then we don't stand a chance of standing together on anything. United we stand,divided we fall!''
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Your frustration is felt by many here I assure you. Some are reduced to sounding plumb stupid because of personality issues. I see and hear em at the range all too often as well.

For a period I was anti-NRA some years back over Wayne La Pierre's behavior during the Project Exile debacle. My belief was and still is that individual liberties should be defended by individuals. That would make one think that a loose collective would develop. In your dreams.

People will let personality clashes destroy our nation. Not everyone, but enough to cause disunity. I have since forgiven Mr. La Pierre and had to admit that while I believe the NRA should function as a gun club, but since we as individuals cannot even function harmoniously in a setting like this, I owe a debt of gratitude to the NRA for doing what we as individuals are failing to to do.

In the right hands a firearm can defend a nation as the framers intended. Done responsibly those hands can defend a nation without ever firing a shot against domestic tyrants. it is not hard to understand why anti liberty gun grabbers believe they can prevail when they see personality fueled carping that is all to frequent among us.

Plain truth. You do not have to be smart to own a firearm or post online. I accept that stupidity will never self regulate. I even accept that in the young ignorance is often overly vocal.

What really upsets me is that I see people who I am almost sure are more intelligent than me involved in these personality fueled arguments that clutter these forums and other venues. And they are not all young people.

Discuss......not argue.

if someone attacks you unfairly resist the temptation of go to their level in response. If your ideas are valid then over time they will be proven out, and we will ALL benefit whether we are the originators of a process or just tweakers of a process or just schleps who read at the right time and had fantastic information delivered right into our laps without contributing a thing to the
process other than being civil to one another.

Guys I don't know what the answer is to us getting along. For me it is trying to state things I believe as unproven, simply the way I currently do them. I can only control me and how I react to others.

I just recently increased my NRA life membership to the Patron level. Until we can learn to get along I see the NRA as the best protection of our right to keep and bear arms and therefore our ability to preserve liberty.

Yet even at age 69 I find myself fervently hoping that we somehow manage to pull it together and individually become freedom's best hope for the future, regardless of whether we are NRA members or not affiliated with any gun rights organization.

If you like to argue and sound stupid then make it about football or basketball. Something that really doesn't matter. The best dunk or pass reception does not feed the hungry nor clothe the poor. But our behaviors here should offer no solace to those who would deprive us of our, or our children's or grandchildren's liberty.

in the hands of a good man or woman, a firearm, while only a tool, can defend a nation. In the hands of a man or woman lacking character that same firearm is worthless at best and a danger at worst.

I don't want my son or grandchildren cursing me because I behaved in such a way that liberty is lost to them. And yes......my behavior here counts. And so does your behavior. I hope to see the day when we ''as individuals'' are freedoms best defense and the NRA has strength because we as individual members give it strength, not the other way around.

To those who understand let us do what is necessary, drawing on character. perseverance and a sense of duty. To those who don't understand I am sorry to have bored you. Just be civil and you will enjoy benefits as well...............Mike

[bbailey7821]

Call me old fashioned, but I don't have any problem with my old Red Rooster lube. If it ain't broke...

[Spector]

Glad you have found the lube that best suits you. Hope it continues to serve you well.....MIke

[RP]

Glad you have found the lube that best suits you. Hope it continues to serve you well.....MIke

good example of what I am talking about that could have gone down hill fast. Are we about done with this thread now has everyone got it out of their system cabin fever should be breaking soon.

[Gremlin460]

I must have missed something back in the thread somewhere, I personally did not think anyone was arguing in it.
Most of what I have seen so far is some guys asking WHY we do what we do, rather than ridicule coaters for coating..
All good my way anyways...

[Butchman205]

I didn't WANT to like the powder coated bullets I cast myself, but I'm of the opinion...to truly say I don't like it, I had to try it.

I freakin LOVE LOVE LOVE it!!!

I do the simple shake and bake method...and I'm loading my handgun ammo cleaner and cheaper than ever before. Like close to .22 cheap.

I work in the iron industry, and am responsible for managing a group which is constantly trying new ideas. (If you aren't getting better, you're falling behind)

I am not a newby in gathering realistic applicable data, nor am I implying anyone else here is either.

What I personally have learned...
The polyester based powder coating (when baked on bullets) is indeed a very hard coating which strongly resists erosion and thermal breakdown.

I have seen copper and lead fouling literally just go away, in my handguns. That's a good thing. For folks that load/reload their own, it's seriously amazing and is worth a second look. For folks that only use "commercially produced" ammo...it'll be out soon. It's that good. For folks that are happy without it, good for you...if it ain't broke don't mess with it!

-Butch

[Stilly]

this may seem like a minor annoyance to some but I'm a bit old school and think your coated bullets are but ugly. Yes I realize they work but so do old school lube sized bullets. I don't want a pink or lime green pickup and don't want my bullets that color either. Maybe if they made a clear coating it would make me take a second look at it.

I actually read through about all 6 pages of this thread earlier tonight while I was at work and I say GOOD FOR YOU. Sadly though I think you are a dieing breed. People like yourself who KNOW how to mix alloys and make what you want and have been doing this a long time, but times are changing. We all know it. I have always wanted to be like you and that attracted me to this site in the first place, but I have not had enough reloading under my belt to even come close to your knowledge. I have always wanted to be able to cast and know my mixes and know how to whip up the proper alloy with the correct bhn for my application but I never had this or that and when I finally did get all of the things ready to cast, PC came along. I have told a lot of folks that there are two kinds of folks who cast, THOSE that are the alloy masters and they know a lot about what they do, and those that are new, and they do not know a lot, but they can now PC and PC has ALMOST made this a level playing field now. Much like Samuel Colt made all people equal ;) (Well, all people that could afford his firearms).

Until I become an alloy master I can hide behind my PC and take the cheap route. I actually enjoy PC though but I agree with you in the colors. I have not found a single color that I really like, so I keep buying them. Now I have 30+ colors. I have so many damn colors I have not even tried them all out yet, but I have made glow in the dark bullets, neon green bullets, black and gold bullets, and now my latest creation, my red rimmed hollow points. For me PC is about dressing up my lead to look like something that is NOT necessarily a bullet. Like my Mint Green Porcelain hollow points with red rims. Yeah, they look sloppy, but I plan on making more and hopefully they will soon look like tea cups or like actual porcelain bullets with red rims. Why so much time and effort into making them look pretty? Because this is the digital era and I want some NICE rounds that I can take photos of that make MY photos and firearms stand out from all of the rest. I want some NICE wallpaper for my computer monitor so when I step away from my computer and lock it people can see a nice 1911 with some crazy looking bullets that just can not be real... And then they ask me and I get them hooked into reloading and casting, like my previous supervisor...

Times are changing man. You do not need to because hey, what you do works, but I am no expert like you and I have not played with my lead as much, but I DO know what happens when I put glossy red over emerald green and I DO like me some bonded black chrome bullets (you might like those).

I even have a document that I am working on that details every step of MY process which intersects a few processes here as well. I made it at the request of my friend who wanted to be able to cast a ton of boolits (maybe even a literal ton) and then coat them and store them so he can use them as he needs them. He is new too and he wants to get his daughter into shooting and if she gets to pick a color and shoot, well, kids like that sort of thing I guess. So I am not upset at all and I have no problems with your statements. I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. You are like my father, except my father does not even trust himself enough to learn how to reload, and he never did and that always kept him out of reloading. I am the first in my family that is PRO 2A and adamant about it. I am the only one that cares and if me taking photos of my work and sharing them and talking with others helps to get more people into being gun owners then that is way more than I ever did while I was in church... :)

But I also think we can still make a PCer out of you. I think you should head on over to Prismatic Powders and have a look at what they got. With over 12k color combinations there I bet they might have something that you might think does not look half bad on your bullets.

As for other comments in this thread. Mr Smale is clearly not a liberal progressive (and nobody said he was) So I can appreciate his attitude that he does not like it. Here in California once a liberal progressive states that they do not like it, they follow up that statement with "And I want to see that it gets banned..." so it is truly refreshing to see someone simply state their opinion and leave it at that. This site is filled with various people of differing backgrounds and I appreciate that even after 6 pages of a thread that started on a negative comment, a flame war has not broken out. THAT is what separates you folks from other sites. So by all means, keep on not liking it, but if you ever want to get your feet wet, I will be more than happy to assist you in whatever way that I can or give you guidance in what I do to get my results.

Until then, enjoy my new Hollow Points that light the paper on fire as they go through... (just kidding, they might not ever get shot because they are just to pretty in MY opinion...) Oh, and they were made from my FIRST BRASS NOE 2 cavity mold that someone bought for me and sent my way because I offered them assistance and actually made them a large care package of various powder coated projectiles in .356, .357, .358, and .451. I would have never bought an NOE on my own, but now I want more and I intend to buy a few more of them when I get back on my feet.

Glamour shots have not yet been staged, only these group shots so far...
http://www.stillyvision.com/files/cg/pc/hotrim45.jpg

[Hickok]

Stilly, those are really cool!

Some of you may have seen this before. I had PCed some boolits that I was NOT going to use, just trying some colors out. I had one boolit that had two heavy coats of PC, which I later threw in the pot for a remelt. I was surprised as they melted to see a rubbery jacket in the form of the boolit floating on the melt!

Picked it up with needle nose pliers and dropped in the waste basket. Now this boolit had received a two heavy coats,(No I don't do this all the time, just used the boolit over for a color test) and it was the only one that floated to the top like a deflated rubber balloon in the shape of the boolit.

Wish I had taken a picture of it. I was really amazed at the toughness of the powder coat.

[rbuck351]

Ok. Let's see if I can do this with out offending anyone. Most of you are PCing your boolits for reasons that either make sense to you or are important for one reason or another. I got that part. Most of the reasons you have for PCing a boolits I don't have issues with. I'm not having leading issues, I don't care what color they are. The greasy mess doesn't bother me. Long term storage is not a problem as I can store they dry and lube them when I want. I don't shoot indoors so the smoke is a non issue. I'm not interested in impressing the ladies with pretty boolits. Barrel fouling is a non issue. Right now I'm shooting a 365gr greased .416 boolit at about 2100+ fps from my 416Rem at about 2". My question is. Will PC help me in gaining noticeable accuracy or velocity or better yet both? If it will, I will be trying PC. If not, I'd rather not waste the time. I can PP if this won't work.

[Spector]

I can't say if powder coating will noticeably increase your accuracy or increase your velocity. It sounds like you are perfectly happy doing it your way. So goading you to come on and try powder coating would be tantamount to poking you with a sharp stick.

Perhaps sometime in the future you'll purchase a firearm that does not respond well to your usual procedures. You might ask those same questions after powder coating is out of it's infancy and more is known about the process and what it can do for boolits.......and what it cannot do.

I have a friend who is simply not interested in all the experimentation and all he wants to know is a straightforward ''how to'' with nearly guaranteed success. I have given him some pistol boolits and he has fired them with satisfaction. 45 caliber pistol boolits. Some 38 caliber WC's and that is about all I think know about powder coated boolits.

My wife used to get frustrated with me because we certainly did not agree in many areas. After many years of having her trying new approaches to get me to change my mind I asked ''can't we just agree to disagree. I cannot honestly agree with you so i will be lying if I say I do''. Still it went on year after year. Maybe I should have just said different strokes for different folks and left the ''disagreement'' word out of it. Anyway there was never resolution until her death.

We all come here on these various forums voluntarily. Most of us come here to learn and for the camaraderie. I suspect some stay to teach. I am always amazed at the knowledge some have here of chemistry, electricity and electronics and a myriad of other subjects.

Me, I'm just pretty good with people. Used to have no use for em. Then I had to learn to deal with em because of my job, politicians, professional people and working class individuals. Men, women, drunks, people with a chip on their shoulder. Then somewhere in the process I finally developed empathy. I continued getting older and my hormone levels dropped I suspect, and I was less apt to jump at someone who seemed to be invading my space. Nothing left to prove, Secure in my person.

Life is good. Even though I've learned I was never really as smart as I thought I was. I have learned to forgive others, and as important learned to forgive myself. I have a problem with one aspect of me. I was so arrogant about what I thought I knew. I remember with some shame all the head butting I did through the years. Believing I was something because I won so many conflicts. Even read some stuff by Gerry Spence on how to argue and win every time.

The problem. If I won then someone else lost. If I lost then they won. Unfortunately the truth lost in many cases, buried in the personal conflicts and arguments that developed out of what should have been simple discussion.

Look.....many people come here to learn. Some are inpatient and just want it all at once, 100% accurate info. Ain't gonna happen. Some things are opinion because it has not be proven by enough people over a long enough period. Might be the truth, in infancy and as yet not recognized as truth.

When we let our hormones get the best of us resulting in personality conflicts the main loser is determining the truth. The best process. The best product currently. The people coming here for just information who are turned off, leaving never to return.

That is not a legacy I want to be part of. I am betting the majority of the people here feel like that as well......including moderators. The carping and backbiting only make their jobs more difficult as well.

I will not write of this matter again. I have said it every way I can think of. This is a great place full of knowledgeable people. If we develop a sense of restraint when we believe we are being challenged or even insulted, if we take the high road.......we do not lose. Everyone gains. Moderators can handle conflicts that become a real problem. People who desire to stir up trouble do not stay long when their efforts are ignored or addressed by moderators.

rbuck351 made a statement and asked a question and did it the right way. Most here do. Let us encourage those who don't ask or respond well to become better at it.

I love powder coating....pistol boolits. I hope great strides are made in powder coating rifle boolits, getting good accuracy and high velocity. I tried paper patching 8x57 a few years back with some success. Arthritic fingers hope powder coating becomes a viable alternative. Dismantling my soap box...........Mike

[Stilly]

Ya know...

I wonder if a PC flowchart would help people... Because really that is what it is. It COULD be a solution if all else is failing or it could be a solution if you just want something different or want to have fun in a weird sort of way... And THAT is PC in a nutshell...


And thank you Hickok. They almost look more like Muscari flowers now that I think of it. Maybe my next colors will be to imitate those... Blue with white rims...

I actually have a mini database that I have started collecting data for that details all of my different color combos and how I got them... :\

[rbuck351]

I came to the PC forum to see if it can help. Apparently PC won't help with my issues at this point but I think I will try anyway. What the heck, it won't cost much. Swaging an already cast boolit has produced some good shooting boolits. I'll try coating some of those and maybe lubing a PC boolit. Who knows, maybe that will be the best of both systems. I am guilty of looking for a simple approach and have not done all the work that is needed. I still need to do a chamber/throat cast and experiment with different alloys modify my loading dies and make the proper M die. I will find a way to get velocity and accuracy with cast and at this point I don't care which method works. If I have to go paper patch I will but probably not for 22 and 25.

[dahermit]

I came to the PC forum to see if it can help. Apparently PC won't help with my issues at this point but I think I will try anyway. What the heck, it won't cost much. Swaging an already cast boolit has produced some good shooting boolits. I'll try coating some of those and maybe lubing a PC boolit. Who knows, maybe that will be the best of both systems. I am guilty of looking for a simple approach and have not done all the work that is needed. I still need to do a chamber/throat cast and experiment with different alloys modify my loading dies and make the proper M die. I will find a way to get velocity and accuracy with cast and at this point I don't care which method works. If I have to go paper patch I will but probably not for 22 and 25.If you do not state what problems you are having with cast bullets, then it is unlikely that anyone here can help you with them.

[flyingmonkey35]

Don't forget the most important part of why we coat bullet's


When the libtards find out about my plastic black painted bullet that I shoot in my undetectable ghost gun.

We get to sit back and watch them make @$$es of themselves.

[USSRSNPR]

I have to agree with OP I will stick to the simplicity of sizing while lubing and not add steps to the process.

[rbuck351]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I would like to get well over the about 2200 fps velocity barrier I have hit with greased boolits and maintain 1.5 moa. Specifically, 2800fps with a 45gr in my 223, 2600fps in my 308W with a 150gr and 2400 with my 416Rem with a 365gr. Pistol boolits are giving me no issues. I can shoot them as fast and accurate as jacketed and a bunch cheaper. Some folks are doing this with lubed boolits but I haven't mastered this yet. Is anyone doing this with PC? The PP folks are doing this but it's even more pita than PC. If this is being done I would rather not have to reinvent the wheel. I'm not here to knock PC. I'm trying to find out if it will do what I want. I have ordered some powder and will do it myself if no one can help. I want accurate high velocity boolits in a useful hunting weights for my rifles.

[Gremlin460]

No it wont, PC, Loob, hiTek are all used for separating the lead from the barrel only. They do not turn casts into magic missiles for 2800+ velocity.
But there is hope...!!

I hear that full copper jacketed projectiles may help you out with your quest. You should try a box of them.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Don't waste any of your time trying to figure it out. A hundred and sixty (+/-) years ago guys who paper patched were bad mouthing guys shooting "naked" bullets and decrying the disgusting mess that lubes create on the boolits. Then, the guys breech seating boolits were proclaiming to the world that fixed ammunition would never prove accurate enough for target work.
And, just a hundred and twenty years or so ago Springfield Armory was producing the Krags with magazine cut-offs so soldiers would not waste ammunition.

Rich

[Blanco]

When I first got into casting, which was not that many years ago. I was interested in casting pistol Boolits. I was very put off with the lubes and still got leading in the barrel. Doing it wrong, probably so, but I kept trying. I heard something about coating the lead. I scoured the internet looking for information.
I would have to agree that coating lead in a polymer / polyester jacket is one of the biggest innovations for lead boolits in probably 100 years.
I think one of the things all of you have missed. Is this innovation was largely tested, tried and proven right here in this forum. There will be some that will say coating boolits is wrong or ugly or their lubes still work fine. It's all good, BUT the coatings have proven to work well. The magic of the internet played out right here without any corporate involvement. Kinda backwoods proof of concept. I know it is not a cure all and lubes may prove to work in many situations where coatings wont. But they probably have made a permanent change to the process and added a new dimension for the creative.

[waksupi]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I would like to get well over the about 2200 fps velocity barrier I have hit with greased boolits and maintain 1.5 moa. Specifically, 2800fps with a 45gr in my 223, 2600fps in my 308W with a 150gr and 2400 with my 416Rem with a 365gr. Pistol boolits are giving me no issues. I can shoot them as fast and accurate as jacketed and a bunch cheaper. Some folks are doing this with lubed boolits but I haven't mastered this yet. Is anyone doing this with PC? The PP folks are doing this but it's even more pita than PC. If this is being done I would rather not have to reinvent the wheel. I'm not here to knock PC. I'm trying to find out if it will do what I want. I have ordered some powder and will do it myself if no one can help. I want accurate high velocity boolits in a useful hunting weights for my rifles.

A lot of this is going to depend on just how good of a handloader you are, and your attention to details. What you are seeking is fairly easy with lubed bullets, I see no reason pc would be any different.

[rbuck351]

If it was fairly easy everybody would be getting those results. Yes there are some and I am very sure they are paying very close attention to details. I have been casting for about 50 years for hanguns and find it fairly easy to get good results using lube. Jacketed bullets are available and results are very good but expensive. Working for a living has wasted way too much of my time for experimenting with cast in rifles. I retire in about 3 months so I will have time to examine the details better and will have a range in the front yard. If folks don't want to share details about how their method works better than another , I'm ok with that. I'll just do it myself. Thanks Buck

[Dragonheart]

I can't give you the load you are looking for, but I believe it is out there for someone to find. I now know a polymer jacket bullet bonded to a soft lead core can be fired over 3100 fps, not key hole and still protect the barrel from leading. So the jacket is sound, at this point it is going to take some, maybe a lot, of trial and error to find the load your are looking for, but that would apply to any load combination.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

and that experimentation is half the fun...

[Lloyd Smale]

boy some of you take this stuff way to personaly. I didn't bad mouth you kid. Really I didn't even bad mouth your bullets other then I think they look like ****.

[Hickok]

boy some of you take this stuff way to personaly. I didn't bad mouth you kid. Really I didn't even bad mouth your bullets other then I think they look like ****. I agree Lloyd, I knew you said it with a smile, and chuckle!:grin:

When my son-in-law and daughter come to visit, and are driving their new Chevy, I always say, "Who parked that bucket of junk in front of the House?"[smilie=p:

[Dragonheart]

Lloyd I expect you found Stilly's post was quite amusing? I know I did.

Personally I think silver bullets are for the "Masked Man"; I like the blue ones.

[Lloyd Smale]

come on now. bad mouth a chev and we will have to put the gloves on:redneck:
I agree Lloyd, I knew you said it with a smile, and chuckle!:grin:

When my son-in-law and daughter come to visit, and are driving their new Chevy, I always say, "Who parked that bucket of junk in front of the House?"[smilie=p:

[Hickok]

come on now. bad mouth a chev and we will have to put the gloves on:redneck:A long time friend and I would always have fun digging each other at work about Fords vs. Chevy's. Then someone would mention Dodge, and he would say, "Stay out of this, you ain't got nothing to argue with!"

Then everyone would be laughing!:redneck:

Lloyd hope you are recuperating well!

[Smoke4320]

You know what they say about Chevys ..

90% made since 1990 are still on the road !!

the other 10% made it all the way home :) :)

[Preacher Jim]

smoke, i thought ford stood for found on road dead now say thats chevy. guess i will have to go toyota. and i squeeze and grease my lead but only cast match pistol. if i want a coat i swage a half jacket on them.

[Hickok]

I had an old timer tell me once, "You know, I have worked on a lot of Fords and Chevy's over the years. And the only difference I can find between either one of them is when I sit on the porch in the evening and hear to the Chevy's rusting and the Ford's dripping oil!"

Almost forgot, I have worked with grease loob and Polymer jacket and the only difference I can find is.............;)

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

we still love you Lloyd...

[Smoke4320]

I have had fords, chevys, dodges, jeeps, toyotas, triumphs, MGs, Kia's
and I really hate to say it but the imports (save the Lucas demons) Always held up better
My Dodge Dually did great to 100,000 then
became maintenance intensive

[Lloyd Smale]

possibly because you cant find a 15 year old Toyota up here that still has much more then the original frame left. Up here in salt country you could have made a living just fabricating wooden stake beds for them. I don't think theres one left that old that has a metal box on it. but you could probably go to the junk yard with a battery and still start many of them that were tossed. Chevs and fords in the 70s rusted bad, probably just as bad as those old Toyotas but in the 90s chev and ford improved drastically and Toyotas, well they still fell apart. Got to say that dodge allways did better then any of them in the rust department. I think the triumps Mgs and even the jeeps up here were closer to the Toyotas in rust. Not many of them lasted 10 years of our winters. Now if we talk high milage smoke i don't think your going to find a triumph or a Mg that even made a 100k let alone could brag out what it took to get it there. Typically with a mg or triumph you were looking for a rebuild by 60k. Don't know a thing about a kia. Probably never will [smilie=l: Bottom line is ANY car or truck you get is going to need maintenance and wear parts replaced when the clock hits over a 100k. Don't care if its American, Jap or Korean. QUOTE=Smoke4320;3562848]I have had fords, chevys, dodges, jeeps, toyotas, triumphs, MGs, Kia's
and I really hate to say it but the imports (save the Lucas demons) Always held up better
My Dodge Dually did great to 100,000 then
became maintenance intensive[/QUOTE]

[Hickok]

I remember those vehicles in the 70's. You financed for 3 years and they pretty well rusted up when you had them paid for.

[Lloyd Smale]

bought a brand new chev 1/2 ton short box in 79 and made a warrantee claim on it because the front fender had a rust hole all the way through it before the one year warrantee was up!!!!!! Some wine about what trucks cost today but there about the same price with inflation and 100s fold better units. I still remember the old comercials bragging about having more 10 year old trucks on the road then the competition. Now youd have to look at at least 20 year old trucks to get any major differences in reliability in ANY of them foreign or domestic. If you bought a new truck in the 70s and got a 100k out of it you were bragging. Now if you only got a 100k out of it youd be walking in front of the showroom with a sign that said lemon! Maybe they should have particle coated that 79s front fender. It was an ugly green colar so it probably could be made to match. :bigsmyl2:

[Hickok]

And burning a quart or two between a 3000 mile oil change was just normal!:groner:

[Smoke4320]

or carrying an extra set of points and condenser Plus feeler gauges

[Rick Hodges]

or carrying an extra set of points and condenser Plus feeler gauges


Feeler gauge???? You mean a matchbook? :?

[Smoke4320]

Had a 69 Mustang. Called it bugspray
Matches and Roaches would not last a day:)

[Blammer]

I need pictures to verify it's not cool looking.

Yea, I'll know it when I see it. :)

[Hickok]

Feeler gauge???? You mean a matchbook? :?Right on Rick. Used a piece of the cellophane rapper from a cigarette pack between the points contact to "feel" when they started to open, and set the gap with matchbook flap!

Yep Smoke, points and condenser in the glove box.

I had a 65' Ford 390 that would run with the points nearly burned up, but if you touched them or tried to sand/file them down to clean them up, you were SOL. Then you had to put a new set in.

You guys ever charge up a condenser and then hand it to some goober?:bigsmyl2:

[Lloyd Smale]

yup some don't quite remember the good old days were better in memory then they actually were when we lived them. Probably don't need a 350hp truck as I lived in the 70s and 80s with 200hp. But I'm not running to my dealer asking him for a 200 hp truck that lasts 80k and has a carb and points and a paint job a 12 year old could do on recycled metal and I don't think anyone in there right mind would

[Smoke4320]

Also can't remember the last time I had to pull out the timing light and distributor wrenches

[Hickok]

Also can't remember the last time I had to pull out the timing light and distributor wrenchesThat's one I had completely forgot about! Fords most of the time had the distributor up front and the Chevy's back to the firewall, oh the memories!!!:groner:

And you ain't never had no laughs, until you or one of your buddies were tuning a big Holley or Quadrajet 4 barrel and the backfire took off your eye brows, mustache or pork-chop sideburns!!!

[rbuck351]

Oh yeah, the eyebrows. I kinda wish I had forgot that one. I don't miss a fuel pump you could change in 10 minutes without pulling the gas tank though or spark plugs that you could change without removing the engine. After changing out a several hundred dollar computer, $3 points don't sound quite so bad. Modern engines do run a bit better and longer though.

[Gohon]

And burning a quart or two between a 3000 mile oil change was just normal

Yeah..but bulk oil was only 10 cents a quart and as a reminder was conveniently placed by the gas pumps in bottles with pour spouts.

[dahermit]

I came here to read a discussion about powder coating...how could I have been so foolish.

[Amiaji]

This thread took a left turn a couple pages ago.

[dahermit]

This thread took a left turn a couple pages ago.Ended up like "The View"...

[Gremlin460]

Back on track... I coat with HT, I also coat one of 5 different colours per batch of 5K. This allows me to keep easy tabs on month of pour and also of alloy mixture used.
I did not always do it this way, in the beginning it was a novelty, so all colours were used randomly. Now however the colour has become part of my regimen to keep track on what I am doing and where I am with the little pills.
Also my barrel ALWAYS comes back from the range looking almost chromed its that clean after 3-4 hundred rounds.

[BILLYBOB44]

You guys ever charge up a condenser and then hand it to some goober?:bigsmyl2:

^^^Yep--Just make sure that you JUST hold on to the wire Pig-Tail ONLY....HA HA...Bill.

[Stilly]

I came here to read a discussion about powder coating...how could I have been so foolish.

I know, this thread has now gone the way about 90% of the threads go at Calguns.net...

This is freaky. California is creeping into the thread, but wait, just let them talk and see if they notice us... Just be real still like they might not even se us standing here. Did you see the coke bottle glasses on that one guy? Clearly we do not need to be sneak level 80 to stand here a bit longer unnoticed... We can prolly pitch a tent and start a campfire here too and continue talking about PC if yall want or we can head on over to the other thread... Sorry Gremlin, I think your continued discussion might be falling onto deaf ears... But that's all good, let the OP see that we are not such bad folks after all and once we all connect on another level or two he will be PCing pills like the rest of us... Just you wait... I might even go to Michigan and take a selfie with OP...