blackhawk VS. super blackhawk

[Oklahoma Rebel]

What is the difference between the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk. is the frame stronger or anything else better? does one or the other have more of a tendency to have the choke problem of the barrel by the frame? I know when I get one I am going to do the 11 degree throat on either. I have my eye on the Blackhawk bisley, it is the only 44 mag in the blackhawks, but would it be better to buy the regular ( lower priced) super Blackhawk? any opinions would be appreciated, thanks.
Travis

[junkpile]

I think the frames and cylinders on them are essentially the same, but the models differ in the trigger, hammer, and grip frame. The Bisley models are limited to the BH line, but there are distributor exclusives with Bisley grips in both.

Most of your questions are going to end in your personal preference. I don't think barrel squeezing is an issue anymore, but there obviously could be exceptions. Not a problem on any of mine. I've also never had a need to mess with the cylinder throats or forcing cones, while others have had considerable problems. I also do not shoot really long, and do not consider myself to be an incredible shooter. I'm pretty happy with paper plates at 75 or 100 yards if I'm shooting from a "rest" (I.e., a wadded up sweatshirt or chunk of firewood).

You basically just need to choose what you like best, assess if there are any problems, and proceed from there. For example, I prefer the balance of the steel grip frames over the aluminum, but I don't own any SBH's. And then, different folks prefer different grip shapes. Most like the Bisley for heavy recoiling rounds, but some hate them.

Anyway, neither is "better" than the other. Only different. You'll find that everyone has good reasons for their preferences and must-haves on their BH / SBH, but they are all different and distinct to the individual.

Check out some of John Linebaugh's online articles if you're worried about the strength of either.

[Thumbcocker]

Nothing more personal than a personal handgun. Try both if you can and see what is best for your hand. I love the Bisley grip but others do not. Second place for me is the standard frame with Hogue finger groove grips on them. I shoot full snort loads in a 4 5/8" SBH with Hogues and it is painless.

[EDK]

I like Original Size VAQUEROS in 357 and 44..preferably 44. My daily routine was 48 rounds...24 right hand and 24 left hand..minimum. (I'm currently shooting 9mm GLOCKS a lot, but I'll be back to the 44s soon.) I prefer 5.5 inch guns, but also shoot 7.5 in the 44s. ALL of my VAQUEROS are either BISLEYS or have DRAGOON or HUNTER grip frames (for increased length) and lately SUPER BLACK HAWK hammers. I use traditional style grips since I'm a COWBOY ACTION shooter.
You will either love or hate the BISLEY...ain't much middle ground. Pretty much the same about the DRAGOON. I really like the HUNTER because it eliminates the big complaint...which I haven't experienced...of the back side of the DRAGOON grip frame rapping your knuckles.
EAGLE GRIPS makes a GUNFIGHTER style grip for the BISLEY or SUPER BLACKHAWK. Whoever designed them got it right. I have several sets of smooth and checkered water buffalo horn for BISLEYS and DRAGOONS both. Unfortunately they aren't catalogued at present and used ones on gunbroker,eBay, etc are exorbitantly high.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

You basically just need to choose what you like best, assess if there are any problems, and proceed from there. For example, I prefer the balance of the steel grip frames over the aluminum, but I don't own any SBH's.Junkpile, didyoumean that one of them has an aluminum grip frame? that would be a no go for me if so, I will definitely shoot it for a while before any mods are made, because if it aint broke don't fix it. I think I will like the bisley better because on my k 38 combat masterpiece my pinkie wants to get pushed up against/above the next finger, and the grip shapes are similar. but does the bisley "roll" with recoil, or does more recoil get transferred to the hand and wrist. thanks guys,
Travis

[contender1]

To answer the basic questions, the main frames of the Super & the Blackhawk are the same size. Thread choke is a hit or miss in any of them. Most folks who like to enjoy full power loads prefer the Bisley g/f design over the others. But only you can determine what works best in your hands.

[jmort]

"I will definitely shoot it for a while before any mods are made, because if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Every single action I have ever purchased has gone out to be tuned before I fired a single shot. Well, I never sent my NAA .22LR/.22 Mag out to be tuned.

[roberts1]

Buy one of each. Whichever you do not like send to me and i will dispose of it for you at no charge. You're welcome.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

roberts1 sounds like a great idea! i'll get right on it.lol

[DougGuy]

Blackhawk usually has an aluminum grip frame, Super Blackhawk has steel but with a longer and more rearward grip panel. It's more easily explained if you look at the grip panel shapes and sizes, this drawing takes a minute or two to get adjusted to looking at it, but it compares ALL the models and you can follow it easy enough.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames2_zps89fc9917.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames2_zps89fc9917.jpg.html)

I have not shot the Bisley but I think they roll less than the others given the same caliber and load.

Here's another comparison. The old model guns had the XR3 grip frame, which is smaller and more like a Colt SAA, Ruger brought it back for the New Model Flattops. The XR3-RED is what most of the New Model Blackhawks have had for decades. The Super Blackhawk has always had the same grip frame, and the Hunter models have the same size grip panels as the Super Blackhawk, but they took off the squared "Dragoon" trigger guard and fitted the Hunter model with a round trigger guard.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames3_zps6e999088.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames3_zps6e999088.jpg.html)

[junkpile]

didyoumean that one of them has an aluminum grip frame?


Yes. But on the BH line. Ruger's website will list the grip frame as alloy or steel if you're concerned. If I remember correctly, all the bisley and SBH grip frames are steel. The aluminum grip frames are plenty serviceable and durable, if not abused, but obviously won't be something you'll have to be concerned with, being that you're sticking with 44mag.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

ok, so it stands up well to say,, a regular diet of 250 keiths and 20ish grs of 2400? I say 20ish because i've heard to use 22 grains but they gave no data. but I do have data in a alliance powders book for 20 grns. and it says 1430fps or so, no pressure given. that is fine with me, I don't like to push my guns, I want them to last a long time and stay tight, fo instance in my marlin 22" bbl 1895 45-70 I use a load of a 405gr. rnfp or 405gr. lee hbfp over 31.6grs. of imr4198 (2.5cc) for 1450fps. that is my hunting loa, for plinking I go down a size in lee dippers (2.2cc) and use 28.7gr. for 1370fps.

[Hickok]

OK Kid, my load with the 250 Keith is 20gr/2400 powder. Deer and bear hit with it have expired in short order.

I do have to tell you, Ruger Super Blackhawks with the squareback trigger-guard will really bust your middle finger, at least mine does.

[DougGuy]

The part that hits the hardest is above the square corner. The square corner don't ever bother me but getting hit with the back of the trigger guard isn't fun whether it's the dragoon or the rounded one, both hurt!

[M-Tecs]

Blackhawk usually has an aluminum grip frame, Super Blackhawk has steel but with a longer and more rearward grip panel. It's more easily explained if you look at the grip panel shapes and sizes, this drawing takes a minute or two to get adjusted to looking at it, but it compares ALL the models and you can follow it easy enough.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames2_zps89fc9917.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames2_zps89fc9917.jpg.html)

I have not shot the Bisley but I think they roll less than the others given the same caliber and load.

Here's another comparison. The old model guns had the XR3 grip frame, which is smaller and more like a Colt SAA, Ruger brought it back for the New Model Flattops. The XR3-RED is what most of the New Model Blackhawks have had for decades. The Super Blackhawk has always had the same grip frame, and the Hunter models have the same size grip panels as the Super Blackhawk, but they took off the squared "Dragoon" trigger guard and fitted the Hunter model with a round trigger guard.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames3_zps6e999088.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/Grips/RugerGripFrames3_zps6e999088.jpg.html)

Great post thanks!!!!!!!!!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

hey Hickok! yeah I have felt the pain of getting hammered by triggerguards, I would prefer the round one but would buy either because it would be a cheap/easy part to switch. definitely want the 7 1/2" barrel, they don't make a 6 1/2" in the bisley or I would rather have it, but the longer sight radius will help, and this would be exclusively for a primary hunting pistol, so conceilability isn't an issue, I have the 4" 38 for that

[Hickok]

I have been thinking,(Oh no!) about cutting a small piece of rubber and contouring and fitting it to the trigger guard/grip area and affixing it to the revolver with a good cement/glue. My SBH is stainless so a semi-permanent cement could be cleaned off easily if needed. A small piece of rubber would be barely noticeable to the eye.

Anything to prevent that portion of the trigger guard that Doug correctly speaks of, from getting a running start and slapping my finger.

The Pachmayr grips will work, but they really change the look and feel of the SBH.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

that sounds like a reasonably easy and effective trick, and like you said, its not irreversible

[DougGuy]

About 3 turns of this stuff on the middle finger knuckle will take care of ALL the bashing from the trigger guard. Better than a glove!

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Birdshead%20Vaquero/Bandage_zps3wx4loba.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Birdshead%20Vaquero/Bandage_zps3wx4loba.jpg.html)


This is after probably 20-25 rounds of the Lee C 452-300-RF from my Birdshead Vaquero:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Birdshead%20Vaquero/1dc26311-da91-4d59-9981-3b4a9fd0a0eb_zps993803a4.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Birdshead%20Vaquero/1dc26311-da91-4d59-9981-3b4a9fd0a0eb_zps993803a4.jpg.html)

Put 3 turns around the part where the red is and you will be fine.

THIS load is the knuckle basher supreme in a trail gun, Lee C 452-300-RF over 22.0gr H110. Hey it's actually CHEAP to shoot! Not many that I know will go more than about 2 cylinders full and they lay it down, shake their head, and walk away!

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0d3c189d-b085-4d95-a658-1f0f88b78255_zps3f37d14d.jpg.html)

[44man]

A SBH beats me silly so I use Pachmeyer Grips. A Bisley is worse and not much will help me.
My MOA is close to a Bisley and it beat my knuckle even with the 7BR. I can't imagine a huge caliber from it. I made my own trigger frame for the MOA. Now I don't feel it.161094 Those factory things were death to me. So is a Bisley.

[44man]

I did have some mucky stuff I put behind the guard, some kind of rubber and it helped. My friend loves a Bisley but he taped his finger with many band aids and wore a thick shooting glove.
he still lost a lot of blood.

[44man]

Make an MOA trigger loop from stainless by hand once. Make a longer Ruger transfer bar by hand once. Best thing for a SBH are Pachmeyer Signature grips. No work involved.

[Hickok]

Doug, looking at that picture, I know what it felt like! Lasts a couple of days too!

[44man]

Not as bad as cuts with much blood.

[gpidaho]

Now my 454 Casull T/C Encore. That one will make you BLEED. Gp

[Oklahoma Rebel]

what is the max pressure for the Blackhawk and superblackhawk? are they both the same cylinder length??

[Uncle R.]

Not as bad as cuts with much blood.

Yep - I remember shooting Rams with my Super Blackhawk in an IHMSA standing match way back in the 80s. The gun still wore the original grips, and as I shot the blood was running down my arm and dripping from my elbow. Kinda freaked out my spotter, but that was long before anyone ever heard of AIDS and the sight of blood back then didn't stop a game instantly like it does today.

Dang - that trigger guard HURT and it was really hard to not flinch on the last few rounds.

When I first started shooting silhouettes with my SBH I used a lot of resin on the factory grips and on my hand. If I clamped down my grip like I was choking a goose so the gun did NOT slip it wouldn't bite me. That plan worked fine on chickens and pigs, but usually about midway through the turkeys I'd get a little tired, a little loose, and (OUCH!) get my knuckle bit again.

I finally solved the problem with a set of Pachmayr Signatures. I didn't like the way they looked, but I sure did like the way they felt.

That old revolver still wears those same Pachmayrs today. I never looked back after I put 'em on. After thirty-odd years I'm getting used to 'em.

:bigsmyl2:

Uncle R.

[junkpile]

what is the max pressure for the Blackhawk and superblackhawk? are they both the same cylinder length??

Read this:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm

There are also a few other articles on John's website. They're all worth reading.

Sorry, I don't know the answers to your specific questions. Chamber pressure should be slightly lower in the 45. Check your loading manuals, and compare 44mag loads with Ruger-only 45 loads. At Ruger-only levels, they're relatively equivalent, but I give a slight edge to the 45. However, I don't think the 44 is a step down, just different. Even Tier-II 45 loads are nothing to sneeze at.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

thanks, that article was comforting. and it said that they both share frames , so the Blackhawk bisley or the super Blackhawk bisley , really makes no signifigant issues, and the loads I plan to use are around 30,000 psi,so very safe in any case