9mm col and pressure

[kentuckyshooter]

So here where im at. Im loading 3.9 grains of buleseye with the 124gr lee rn tl cast boolit. I have been seating them to 1.115 col. This has been an ok set up for plinking ammo in my c9. While out performing factor fmjs in the same weight the accurace from benchrest at 20 yards aint nothing to write home about. Also it looks like the powder isnt burning eficently. Halfway up the outside of the spent cases are black from the fireing proces. Now for my question. I know that seating deeper will raise pressure. The 9mm is a hight pressure round. Does it sound like i am having a problem with to low a presure to efecently burn the powder thus the lackluster performance of my ammo and do u think that deeper seating will allow me to tweak this load to get my groups to tighten up. I plan on working up some test loads when i can manage to find the time to do it in. I would just like to have a little more insight into the endevor when i do. Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

[swmass]

I cant recommend you cram that bullet way down in the case to raise accuracy. I load my lee 358-125 grain boolit shorter but every bullet profile is a little different... so the amount of bullet in my case will differ from how much you've got in your round so obviously the pressure will be different if that makes any sense. As for the scorched case... I used to get this when I used titegroup but I have since switched to bullseye and although my cases get dirty, I dont get the same burn mark I had with titegroup (these loads were still accurate - under 2 inches at 15 yards, that powder just seemed to scorch my case). If you're looking to increase accuracy, look at a reloading manual and stay within their recommended limit until you find a sweet spot for your gun. Keep in mind different boolits will also produce different accuracy in your specific gun. Again, don't seat that bullet deeper than recommended in the reloading manual to increase pressure, try keeping the depth the same and if you believe increasing velocity will raise accuracy, try loading them hotter as long as its within the max listed data. Hotter does not always mean more accurate. I never had luck with that bullet, it was just never accurate for me. Your best bet would be to find the reloading data, start with the starting load and slowly increase until you are at the max load until you find the one that is most accurate in your gun. Sorry I cant give you any specific data, but I will say I use the lee 358-125 grain rnfp sized to 0.357 using bullseye powder and produce excellent accuracy. If you find you just cant dial that load in to be as accurate as you would like, I'd suggest switching to a different bullet. Non TL designed bullets can still be tumble lubed. You can also purchase a push through sizer from lee that takes no effort to set up and is very easy to use if these bullets need to be sized. Just a few things to think about.

Also - Bullseye is not known for leaving unburnt powder behind. It is a fairly fast burning powder and should have no problems burning up 3.9 grains behind a 124 grain cast bullet. So I don't think you're having a problem with unburnt powder...Just my opinion FWIW

[Virginia John]

Light loads often leave a burn mark on the outside of the case.

[str8wal]

3.9 grains of buleseye with the 124gr lee rn tl cast boolit

What is the suggested load data range for that bullet? I have found with the 9mm that I need to be near the upper end, if not max, to get proper performance.

[wv109323]

You do not mention group size but the cast out perform the factory loads. I would try a different factory round to verify that the pistol can shoot better than present. Or get some jacketed bullets to try. It may be that you have already obtained all the accuracy the pistol has.
unburnt powder is not a trait of Bullseye powder, dirty cases are. Are you getting any leading?
i don't think shortening the OAL will help that would give you more jump to the rifling.

[tazman]

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 which lists the max for a 125 grain lead boolit as 4.9 of Bullsye. It may be you are a bit on the light side.

[kentuckyshooter]

Sorry for the delayed reply. The gun in question is the hipoint c9. For my load data i couldnt find anything for the 124 gr tl rn besides a mention on a reloading forum of col being 1.115. I cross refrenced powder charges for cast boolits of the same weight and similar design for my starting load and max loads. I started at 3.4 gr and worked up to 4.2 for a max. It took at least 3.8 gr to reliably cycle the pistol and at 4 gr accracy began to deterioate. I am shooting the boolits as cast at a .357 .358 depending on allow mix at the time. No leading to speak of since i got my casting technique figured out. Also i had to relize i had to use 2 coats of lla lol. As to group sizes at 20 yards. Shooting 124 gr american eagle fmj ammo my groups were about 2 and 1 ring in size on a standard 50 yard target. With my reloads that shrunk to about a pie plate for groups.

I have had anouther thought. Since the concencus is that seating deeper is probably not the solution then what about loading longer. This would have the oppisite efect on case pressure thus allowing me to possibly load a little hotter to make up the difrence. Also as mentioned this would shorten boolit jump to the rifleing and possibly better accracy as a result. What say u?

[kentuckyshooter]

Found some time befor work today and got my hipoint out. Pulled out my pocket manual that i have and checked the specs for col. Took a rod and ran it down the barel to the back of the chambe and marked it. Field striped the gun and placed a boolit in the throught of the barel. Ran the rod back down the barrel and marked it again. Got 1.270 for the longest cartrage it could acept. Compared it to the 1.168 specs and decided to load just under what the max as at that length the mag wont take the round.

Made a dumby round that specs to 1.167 and started loading. Began at 3.8 gr of bulleseye and worked up in .1 gr incraments to 4.4 gr. Seated and crimped in seperate steps. Had a few growing boolits this way though. Reseated thoes and went on. Pulled counds at random and hand cycled the pistol to bench test function. Looks like everything is ok to run. Now need to find time to make it out to the range for testing. Ill post my results when testing is done. Thanks everyone for the input.

[kentuckyshooter]

Made it down to the range today. At 11 or 12 yards steped off its looking like i wont have to change my charge weight as 3.9 grains of bulseye gave me a nice inch to inch and a half group on the bulseye. Im gona do more testing with it but its looking like things are going in the right direction. Felt recoil is closer to factor 9 ammo and when i inspected the cases they were only slightly dirty. No black soot half way up the out side of the cases.

This has me curious and i have another question that maby some one on here can answer. Since the same charge of powder is giving me the best results with both col but the shorter didnt perform as well as the longer loading just from a powder burn perspective. Is it posibly that a powder with a reduced case capacity not have enough room to fully ignight thus leading to heavy soot and possibly unburnt powder?

[jcren]

Not that I am aware of. Powder requires little to no oxygen and increasing pressure with a smaller chamber or more/faster powder speeds the reaction/burn.