Dear Lee Precision Inc

[Lefty Red]

I was searching for a new press. When Googled what press to get, do you know the number one answer I got? It was the Dillion 550 series. This was the answer on every board, chat room, forum on the WWW from 2000 until today. It's universally the press that everyone's mind goes to when asked for the perfect press when you get out of single stage presses. You guys have that genre wrapped up with the Classic Cast, great press!

You still have a warehouse full of old three hole turret presses and turret heads? How about the non Classic four hole turret presses and heads? Those old timers bring back memories! Was given an old three holed press and a few heads to start reloading. The Old Man made me prep the press on a single stage, another Lee product that was well worn. So the reloading was broke up in two stages and was easier for a beginner to keep things simple and safe. Hell, I still do it today for my revolver calibers. Anyways, I regressed. So I'm taking you might have a large inventory of product that is not moving and is sitting around gathering dust. I think I might be able to help you with your problem.

Getting back to the Dillion 550. It's a simple and strong press. It's manually indexed so the user works at their pace. It's big enough for even large mitts to use, yet takes up little on the bench compared to other progressives. In an age of automatic everything, it's filling a niche and it owns it!

I have to say something. I'm no fanboy of any company. I don't "color coordinate". If a product works, I use. I have shade of reds and greens on my bench. And a splash of blue, black, and grey. If I need something, I automatically look at Lee's website first! I just want the best I can get at the lowest price. Hey, I have an ex wife I have to keep at the lifestyle the judge says she should be accustom to. No extra coins to spare.

Back to reloading.

Here's the idea I have. Take the Pro 1000 and make it manually indexing. Drill the top to make set screws for the turret heads. RCBS did it on their new 5/7 hole progressive. Or drill and out in pins like the Dillion tool head. Or fill it in and drill the solid top to except the Lee Breech Lock system! These aren't expensive changes! Hell, make all of your turrets with these set pins/screws. Takes play out of your turret heads.

Another idea is strip your progressive press down. Both the Load Master and Pro 1000. Get rid of the case feeder and beat the shot out of the guy that designed the bullet feeder. Less money to produce and really not needed. You can leave the primer system. Not my favorite, but I have not had much problem with it. All systems have flaws.

Ok, so we now have a 3/5 hole manually indexed progressive press. It's turret heads are more secure with set pins/screws, or have the Breech Lock system. And a working primer system. Good start, solid start, but a couple more things are needed. Primer disposable system that mimics the CC, a drop tube under the deprimer station. And take that beefy ram from the classic and put in in the press!

And when you run out of the older bases, widen the Classic series base and use it! Throw the CTP's turret head on it, just not moving. Simple modification, set pin/screw hole on the side or top for use in this press and can still use them in the CTP.

Please don't let these ideas get away from you Mr Lee! After reading this on a public forum, I'm sure Hornady will be at the drawing board adapting their LNL presses to these Noble level changes. And who knows, maybe RCBS will do the same to this new Rock Chucker progressives.

And if you feel inclined to award me with a large cash bonus, I prefer small bills and in cash. Ex's lawyer is a sneaky SOB! Or we can work out a trade in product.

Lefty Red

[jmort]

I believe I have your Classic Turret as I recall. Really like it and thank you for holding it for me during my move. I have had a bug, for a while now, to get a BL550. As for the answer to the question, there are a lot of 650 and 1050 and LnL owners, and others, that might have a different opinion. The 550 makes a lot of sense to me. Good post.

[w5pv]

I have red,green and black on my bench at the present.

[Lefty Red]

You do! It's a good press!

You are right, a lot of guys want that faster auto index. But with more fears and levers and switches come more out of adjustments and tweaks and things that go wrong.

While searching for a good turret, that was my main desire, a simple and strong press that was faster than a single stage but still produced quality ammo. Or some times I just need to load up ten rounds without wanting to swap out dies a hundred times. Turrets are great for that.

When I think progressives, it's mass production of one caliber's load. And when you read or hear about their problems, it's usually with the auto index or case/bullet feeders. One reason the powder check/cop dies in needed and a fifth or seventh hole needed is to make it safe so the ammo can be cranked out quickly. It takes time and faith to run a progressive at top speed. Just not my taste, and after seeing how many 550's Dillion sells, there is a whole lot of folks with me.

Call Dillion and they will tell you the 550 is their bread and butter. And I just can't see why other companies haven't copied them? When polymer guns hit it big, it's all we have now....Glock clones. Same with 1911s. When pocket 380s were popular every company rushed to put one out. Now the same with single stacked 9s. Hell, if a cleaner sells good because it's smells like oranges then we are flooded with orange smelling cleaner for a year.

After studying presses for a long time. After reading and listening to stories and fist hand experiences of progressive press owners about all brands. I came to the conclusion that 99% of the presses problems had to do with component feeders, timing/indexing problems, and small parts breaking. This is industry wide, even Dillion. The more bells and whistles the more problems. And it's the nature of the beast, more parts and more operations mean more opportunities for things to go wrong.

And I can't be the only one to sit and think that a LNL press with manual indexing, four holes, and without all the feeders would be a great reloading press. Or the new Rock Chucker 5/7 Progressive Presses if outfitted the same. Just imagine a Load Master type press I described on the "letter", prices at $275. Dillion would be worried! They would have to bring out a 550 Econoline! LOL.......Oh wait they did, the BL version! Looks like Big Blue is not waiting for the others to catch up and actually seeing what sells, a stripped down version of their most popular press. At under $250, it can compete with the Lee CTP.

Jerry

[Bonz]

I regret only having 5 stations on my progressive press. But at the time that I bought it, 5 stations was the most stations on progressive presses. I am now thinking of the RCBS 7 station progressive press but they still don't have a brass feeder for it yet. Everyone is different, probably why there are so many models and types of reloading presses. My ideal progressive reloading press would have a brass feeder and Station #1 for Full Length Resizing & Decapping, Station #2 for Belling Case Mouth and Dropping Powder, Station #3 for Powder Check, Station #4 for the Bullet Feeder, Station #5 for the Bullet Seating and Station #6 for the Factory Crimp Die.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Dillon 550's are sweet. Simple design that flat out makes good ammo. At one point I have 4, but down to 2 now. One for small and one for large primers.

[Lefty Red]

I regret only having 5 stations on my progressive press. But at the time that I bought it, 5 stations was the most stations on progressive presses. I am now thinking of the RCBS 7 station progressive press but they still don't have a brass feeder for it yet. Everyone is different, probably why there are so many models and types of reloading presses. My ideal progressive reloading press would have a brass feeder and Station #1 for Full Length Resizing & Decapping, Station #2 for Belling Case Mouth and Dropping Powder, Station #3 for Powder Check, Station #4 for the Bullet Feeder, Station #5 for the Bullet Seating and Station #6 for the Factory Crimp Die.

If I shot the amount of ammo I did when my daughters and I was shooting back ten years ago, I would have a 650 decked out for each caliber! Not a better machine for producing a large amount of ammo of the same caliber and load. And not the 1050 because I want the warranty. :)

I hope no one is taking my "letter" as anti Dillion and anti pimped out progressives. I was just taking a jab at the lack of good quality manually indexed and stripped downed presses out there. And if you look at the volume of the 550 sold to a 650 or 1050 it's ridiculously one sided. I'm just wondering why the hell the rest of the companies aren't following suit! Dillion even comes out with the BL version of the 550 and it's under $250! They wouldn't if they couldn't sell them! And once folks get over the "blue flu" and realize they can use Lee/Hornady/RCBS gear on there 550s, those presses are going to sell like the Lee CTP! Especially if Dillion comes up with a way to just drop a primer in one at a time and prime on the BL!

Jerry

[Lefty Red]

I believe I have your Classic Turret as I recall. Really like it and thank you for holding it for me during my move. I have had a bug, for a while now, to get a BL550. As for the answer to the question, there are a lot of 650 and 1050 and LnL owners, and others, that might have a different opinion. The 550 makes a lot of sense to me. Good post.

I was thinking the same thing. Get the BL and set it up for large primer reloading since I do case prep and priming off in a separate step.

And this could replace the Lee CTP on a lot of benches. Die heads are under $25 for the 550, so cheap enough to set up different caliber and load setting. Especially if you run the dies you have. My buddy has his RL550 swaps set up with Lee hardware on his plinking 45ACP loads he use to load on his CTP.

[dudel]

Not everything is successfully copied. Re the Glock clones. Remember the S&W Sigma (aka Swock)? It was a miserable copy. Not sure any company want's to be know as a "me too" or "follower". The 550b is a nice combination of what you need without any extras. Anyone who copied it would have the urge to add "extras", and that moves it further away from the 550b. Don't know if Dillon was lucky or smart with the 550b; but it's a winner. Never hear anyone say they were wanting to trade their 550b for anything but a bigger/faster Dillon.

To many, Lee also has a quality control issue to overcome.

[Bonz]

If I shot the amount of ammo I did when my daughters and I was shooting back ten years ago, I would have a 650 decked out for each caliber! Not a better machine for producing a large amount of ammo of the same caliber and load. And not the 1050 because I want the warranty. :)

I hope no one is taking my "letter" as anti Dillion and anti pimped out progressives. I was just taking a jab at the lack of good quality manually indexed and stripped downed presses out there. And if you look at the volume of the 550 sold to a 650 or 1050 it's ridiculously one sided. I'm just wondering why the hell the rest of the companies aren't following suit! Dillion even comes out with the BL version of the 550 and it's under $250! They wouldn't if they couldn't sell them! And once folks get over the "blue flu" and realize they can use Lee/Hornady/RCBS gear on there 550s, those presses are going to sell like the Lee CTP! Especially if Dillion comes up with a way to just drop a primer in one at a time and prime on the BL!

Jerry

Before I upgraded to a progressive press, I reloaded on a Lyman Turret press. It did a good job, made good bullets but it just took too long. My wife and I normally shoot together so thats a bunch of ammo per range session. The progressive press greatly reduced the amount of time that it takes to reload ammo. The thought of the 7 station press would make it much easier to automate the press and just sit there and watch instead of pulling the lever. And when I reload .223 or .308, I run 1 case at a time thru my progressive reloading press. Its kinda like buying a .357 pistol; you can shoot .357, .38 +P and .38's. When you buy a progressive press, you can still load one bullet at a time; the additional stations just allow you to do as much as you want to that round, without removing it from the press or changing dies.

[LynC2]

Not everything is successfully copied. Re the Glock clones. Remember the S&W Sigma (aka Swock)? It was a miserable copy. Not sure any company want's to be know as a "me to" or "follower". The 550b is a nice combination of what you need without any extras. Anyone who copied it would have the urge to add "extras", and that moves it further away from the 550b. Don't know if Dillon was lucky or smart with the 550b; but it's a winner. Never hear anyone say they were wanting to trade their 550b for anything but a bigger/faster Dillon.

To many, Lee also has a quality control issue to overcome.

I wholeheartly agree. I had a 450 for many years and upgraded it to the 550 because of the changeable toolhead feature. I had a chance to pick up a 650 with case and bullet feeder for about 1/3 of what a new one goes for, but passed on it. The 550 does exactly what I want and have no need to make a zillion rounds at one time. One thing Dillon has is a great warranty if needed, just like RCBS and some others. I also have a RCBS and a Forester co-ax press so I am not a single manufacturer fan boy either.

[Lefty Red]

Its kinda like buying a .357 pistol; you can shoot .357, .38 +P and .38's. When you buy a progressive press, you can still load one bullet at a time; the additional stations just allow you to do as much as you want to that round, without removing it from the press or changing dies.

I will agree to disagree with you on that statement. Majority of progressives I have seen that run well are doing so with one load. Every different load or caliber change is a set of followed instructions and it takes a few tries sometimes, resulting in even more tweaking. Much like the semiautomatics shotguns in the early 80s. Every spring or gas port had to be adjusted for every different load shot. Not saying that the semis were bad, my friends shot just as many ducks as I did. But they had to adjust with each different load. The pumps just loaded up and went on from season to season. My friends Auto 5 and gas rings was a bear! But those of us with pumps, it didn't matter what the loading was, we controlled the action of the shotgun not the gases. Same with a Ruger Security Six vs Freedom Arms 97. That Freedom is only going to shoot a 357 round and then only up to a certain bullet. Throwing a 38 in the chamber could damage it. The Ruger will take a 357 magnum to 38 Colt in the same cylinder.

Progressives are great for specific loads in large amounts. Big it's not a press I want to try and develop loads on. My co worker won't even think of getting his 650 up and running for anything less than 1000 rounds. We normally load together to make to worth the work.

But then again, it might seem I'm bashing Big Blue or pimped out progressives. I'm not. And the point of the "letter" is to maybe open the eyes that there is a lot of use that like a basic loader for the versatility. I'm sure there is more shooters that shot more than one caliber. And they only shoot those calibers a few times a year, 1000 rounds tops per caliber. And they want something faster than a single stage and less work than a turret.

And you are very lucky to have a spouse that shares your hobbies. I'm sure it makes buying "needful things" way easier! :)

Jerry

[Lefty Red]

I wholeheartly agree. I had a 450 for many years and upgraded it to the 550 because of the changeable toolhead feature. I had a chance to pick up a 650 with case and bullet feeder for about 1/3 of what a new one goes for, but passed on it. The 550 does exactly what I want and have no need to make a zillion rounds at one time. One thing Dillon has is a great warranty if needed, just like RCBS and some others. I also have a RCBS and a Forester co-ax press so I am not a single manufacturer fan boy either.

You have more will power than me! That would have been a great investment!

[Bonz]

I have several friends that have Dillon presses and say they are the best =but= none of them want to change calibers or change powder loads. I have a Hornady LNL and I can change calibers and be up and running on a different caliber in 15 minutes or less. Changing powder charge settings is a twist of a knob. I have never reloaded on a Dillon press so I can't even comment on their complexity, ease of setup, versatility, etc.. Guess you need to buy one to find out ;-)

[Lefty Red]

Not everything is successfully copied. Re the Glock clones. Remember the S&W Sigma (aka Swock)? It was a miserable copy. Not sure any company want's to be know as a "me too" or "follower". The 550b is a nice combination of what you need without any extras. Anyone who copied it would have the urge to add "extras", and that moves it further away from the 550b. Don't know if Dillon was lucky or smart with the 550b; but it's a winner. Never hear anyone say they were wanting to trade their 550b for anything but a bigger/faster Dillon.

To many, Lee also has a quality control issue to overcome.

I'm sure there are more examples of less than exact copies of the Glocks. But here we are in 2016 and walk into any gunshot and there is a pile of black polymer handguns. And it's hard to figure out which brand is which sometimes.

Why do people buy a Lee Pro 1000 or Load Master? They are cheap. Shooters get into reloading to save money. We know that is BS, but it lures them into it. They get a progressive from Lee and maybe it works maybe it doesn't. And majority of the time it's due to the case feeding or timing. Now imagine one of those press that is stripped down like the 550 and with manual indexing. Good chance they sell more and take more of the market from higher end companies.

A quick Google will show that the cheapest presses are the number one seller. And what if they were set up like a 550 and now 90-95% of those problems with them were gone? And then figure in the price tag of $175-$275. You couldn't keep then in stock.

Kudos to Dillion! They see that Lee and cheap presses are making money. So they preemptively introduce the BL550. They want to take away some the market that Lee has! Well played!

And just looking at those numbers, there is way more causal shooters than hardcore ones. They are happy with a press other than a turret to speed up production and make it cheaper to shoot.

Jerry

[Lefty Red]

I have several friends that have Dillon presses and say they are the best =but= none of them want to change calibers or change powder loads. I have a Hornady LNL and I can change calibers and be up and running on a different caliber in 15 minutes or less. Changing powder charge settings is a twist of a knob. I have never reloaded on a Dillon press so I can't even comment on their complexity, ease of setup, versatility, etc.. Guess you need to buy one to find out ;-)

I don't like changing dies out on a turret! LOL

Between work and buddies, I actively load on three Dillion 650s and two Hornady LNLs. None of us could afford to own or operate one otherwise. We done shoot that much to justify having one. But normally will get two or three of use together and reload for an afternoon a few times a year. We just settle on a load and all bring our components and take turns. I give the owner $20. It's way cheaper and easier to use theirs and knock out 1000-1500 in one weekend and be done with it.

As far as changing calibers, the LNL beats the 650. For ease, one buddy bought more tool heads and has the dies set up for the load he wants on his 650. I think he has 223, 300 BO, and 30 Carbine set up like this. I was watching him set one up one day and it was a good hour to do it right and test and tweak everything the first time. He says he can now change over calibers on his 650 in fifteen minutes and I have no need to dispute him. But he paid allot of money to have that short change over time. The LNL that I load 40SW on is just as fast, maybe faster. I do know it's way cheaper!

I do know one thing, we all own 550s in one flavor or another. :)

[dudel]

I have several friends that have Dillon presses and say they are the best =but= none of them want to change calibers or change powder loads. I have a Hornady LNL and I can change calibers and be up and running on a different caliber in 15 minutes or less. Changing powder charge settings is a twist of a knob. I have never reloaded on a Dillon press so I can't even comment on their complexity, ease of setup, versatility, etc.. Guess you need to buy one to find out ;-)

On my 550b, I can change calibers and powder dump in much less than 15 minutes. Changing the powder change on a Dillon is very similar to a Hornady LnL. On one you twist a bolt that slides in and out, on the other you twist a knob that moves up and down in an arc.

[Garyshome]

I load all on the dillon 550 270/223/556/38/357/380/9mm/.40. But I try not to change over until I'm done with what is on my agenda for that cal.

[cliff55]

Poness/Warren Metal matic P200

[r1kk1]

I bought the 550 over the 650 because it was very versatile. I shoot many wildcats so a case feeder will not work for me ALL the time. I wish there was a bullet feeder that would work with 17 and 20 calibers. Nothing wrong with the 650. I do wish my 550 had double the stations at times or at least two more. I employ single stages or turret press to supplement certain tasks. I have single stages from CH4D, Redding, RCBS, and Forster. I didn't like current made turret presses. They couldn't do anymore for me than the 550. So I bought a Hollywood Senior Turret.

I can see the usefulness of a 650 or a 1050. At times I could use them. I trade time for around 250-400 rounds an hour (depending on cartridge) from the 550.

Take care

r1kk1

[orbitalair]

None of those "mods" are necessary.

And since you posted this publicly Lee will never do any of them (they've been there done that, have the lawyers papers to prove it).

That said, they do need to improve their quality control on various products. They seem to get really sloppy some times.
If they did the simple thing of assembling a press, and testing it for a few rounds then packing it up, would go a long
way towards better customer experience.

[castalott]

Alright...off the deep end I go..... If I could design a press it would be....

Cast iron
5 stations with a LNL like system that locks in place with a button
short throw ram for pistol only reloading-this could shorten lever movement and increase leverage
lever would be adjustable for length like Lee classic cast and left/right side
shell plates would have the 'star' wheel for manual and a quick switch for auto advance on/off
a built in bright light source to see in the case for powder level (maybe hole in top for flashlight)
a 650 like case feeder that could be quickly removed
a built in mirror to see in the powder case easily without strain
one could see the primer slide before it gets to the case to check the primer visually
something like an LNL case retention spring but better
primer disposal thru ram
fast removal shell plate- maybe with a finger nut system like Lee Loadmaster
a quiet case collator or a Lee case collator
grease zerks everywhere

What a monstrous thing this would be...A Frankenloader! It would have to painted many colors!

I guess my point is there are things I like about every press.

dale

[dikman]

Lefty, I have to dispute the statement " And majority of the time it's due to the case feeding or timing". In my case, it's always been caused by the primer feed (as happened today!) and most problems I've read about with the Pro 1000 have been with primers. Other than that, mine has worked fine.

[Lefty Red]

Alright...off the deep end I go..... If I could design a press it would be....

Cast iron
5 stations with a LNL like system that locks in place with a button
short throw ram for pistol only reloading-this could shorten lever movement and increase leverage
lever would be adjustable for length like Lee classic cast and left/right side
shell plates would have the 'star' wheel for manual and a quick switch for auto advance on/off
a built in bright light source to see in the case for powder level (maybe hole in top for flashlight)
a 650 like case feeder that could be quickly removed
a built in mirror to see in the powder case easily without strain
one could see the primer slide before it gets to the case to check the primer visually
something like an LNL case retention spring but better
primer disposal thru ram
fast removal shell plate- maybe with a finger nut system like Lee Loadmaster
a quiet case collator or a Lee case collator
grease zerks everywhere

What a monstrous thing this would be...A Frankenloader! It would have to painted many colors!

I guess my point is there are things I like about every press.

dale

Nice!

[Lefty Red]

Lefty, I have to dispute the statement " And majority of the time it's due to the case feeding or timing". In my case, it's always been caused by the primer feed (as happened today!) and most problems I've read about with the Pro 1000 have been with primers. Other than that, mine has worked fine.

So true. It seems like when a Lee priming system works it does and when it doesn't it won't! I have never gotten a Safety Prime to work for me. And then envy others that have theirs plugging along.

Jerry

[castalott]

! I have never gotten a Safety Prime to work for me. And then envy others that have theirs plugging along.

Jerry[/QUOTE]

My safety prime doesn't work well either. Looks wonderful in the videos though. To save time I just throw the primer on the floor and then bend down to get it....lol

[Ole Joe Clarke]

The first primer I attempted to load into the priming arm wound up on the floor. After that one no more primers on the floor. I took the the plastic pieces apart and used a razor knife and file on them. After removing all the sprues and sharp edges they come apart and go back together as they should.

[alleyoop]

Lee lacks follow through, the potential is there.
I was given a LM I gave it back after 2 weeks.

[OS OK]

​castalott...

"If I were financially fat instead of the other way around…referring to myself…I would help you patent that press and find someone to mfgr. it or put you into manfacturing yourself. I would do that for the pure satisfaction of it all! You got some 'old school' American 'genes' in you boy!…ain't that Great?"

[castalott]

Thank You! That is the highest compliment I have ever been given.....

Dale

[Lefty Red]

The first primer I attempted to load into the priming arm wound up on the floor. After that one no more primers on the floor. I took the the plastic pieces apart and used a razor knife and file on them. After removing all the sprues and sharp edges they come apart and go back together as they should.

I've been told to do that by many folks that have their primers working. Might give it try if I ever fall for it again, and I know I will!

[EddieNFL]

Lefty, I have to dispute the statement " And majority of the time it's due to the case feeding or timing". In my case, it's always been caused by the primer feed (as happened today!) and most problems I've read about with the Pro 1000 have been with primers. Other than that, mine has worked fine.

That's like saying my wife cheats on me, but other than that it's been a perfect marriage.

[Tonto]

I'm still loading on a Rockchucker mounted Piggyback system, the first iteration and I love it. Sure it takes tweaks and needs to be paid attention too but it works fine, RCBS sends me requested parts now and again and I'm not constantly drooling over a new blue, green or red device, I'm happy with what I have. Progressive reloading has caused me to be a more careful reloader. Just read the review of the new RCBS 5/7 holer and wasn't tempted. This is a great thread, fun to hear what could happen someday and thanks to all who weigh-in.

[Lefty Red]

that's like saying my wife cheats on me, but other than that it's been a perfect marriage.

rotflmao!

[castalott]

I thought once about buying a Lee pro 1000 with 2 toolheads. With the case collator I would size/deprime on 1st, prime & case flair on 2nd, and probably nothing on 3rd. If you goofed up a primer at this point- just put it back in the loop and go again. You haven't made any messes yet....

When you have 500+ primed brass, insert the 2nd tool head. Powder on 1st, boolet seat on 2nd, and crimp on 3rd. You shouldn't make any messes here either.

I know the case feed on that 1000 can work wonderful. This sounds slow but taking away messes, it would be as fast as the normal way.....with a primer inspection and a separate crimp station.

I just can't come up with a way to add the bullet comfortably in the 2nd station. Maybe a bullet feed in the 2nd and a seat/crimp in the 3rd?

Just Dreaming as usual...

Dale

[dikman]

I thought once about buying a Lee pro 1000 with 2 toolheads. With the case collator I would size/deprime on 1st, prime & case flair on 2nd, and probably nothing on 3rd. If you goofed up a primer at this point- just put it back in the loop and go again. You haven't made any messes yet....
Dale

Now THAT is an interesting idea. It would slow down the process, but it only takes a couple of mis-primed cases and you'll probably waste far more time - as I did! A couple of cases missed the primer and the powder (Win 231) trickled through the primer hole. That was it, I stripped the press today and was amazed at how much powder was gunking up the innards!

[castalott]

If you have a pro 1000, please try this and tell me how it works...I'm very curious

Dale

[castalott]

Hmmmm...You could put a powder check or better still, a lock out die in the 2nd place and seat/crimp normally in the 3rd.....

( I'm a rural carrier and have 7 hours a day alone to think.....You don't have to be crazy to be a carrier but it helps!!! lol)


Jump in here everyone....a group has more ideas than a one or two do

Dale

[TCoggins]

I do something similar with my Pro 1000. I have a turret with the sizing/depriming die only. I will then size/deprime and prime a batch of cases on the press. Then I swap turrets with a blank die body in the first positon. The only thing this does is acts as a stop for the upward stroke. The case goes into this die, but there is clearance between the case and the die body.

The second position is the Lee powder through die, which flares and drops the powder charge.

The third position seats and crimps the bullet.

By doing it this way, it takes an extra turret, and a little more time, but I never have powder dropping into the priming area due to a missed primer. The blank die body is typically an RCBS case flaring die with the guts removed. By having the die body in the first position acting as a positive stop for the carrier, the overall cartridge length is not dependent on the top of the press travel being consistent.

Did I explain that correctly?

[dikman]

This idea got me interested, so I've just been down playing with the presses. As TCoggins does, I set up the first turret with depriming only in #1 position. First operation will be depriming/resizing and then priming in #2 position, nothing in #3. If a problem occurs with priming, which is generally the ONLY trouble I have with the Pro 1000, then it's a relatively simple matter to sort out. By removing the chance of powder getting in there then I don't see many problems arising.

Second turret is powder and belling in position #1, boolit seating in #2 - I found this is a bit easier to get my hand into while holding a boolit- and nothing in #3.

One major problem with this setup - if you don't empty the primer feed first, or figure out some way to block the primers before using turret 2, it will try to prime each time a case comes around to #2!!! Emptying it means unbolting the press each time to get them out of the slide (nope) or trying to block them with something in the slide, but if that comes lose then you might end up with a bit of excitement! In my case, the obvious answer is to use my spare press for the second turret. I bought this used (it's a pretty old one that doesn't have the primer release spring fitted or the primer slide) and fitted a .44-40 shellplate to it, but never used it, so I re-fitted the .357 shellplate and will use that. I'm pretty confidant that overall this is going to be more efficient.

I had intended setting up the second press to process .44-40, and even made a set of case feeder tubes for it, but I think I'll keep using the 4-station turret for them, as it's virtually idiot-proof to use!

[castalott]

Well done to both of you! Thanks! This site has the greatest collection of minds on the reloading net......

[Lefty Red]

I thought once about buying a Lee pro 1000 with 2 toolheads. With the case collator I would size/deprime on 1st, prime & case flair on 2nd, and probably nothing on 3rd. If you goofed up a primer at this point- just put it back in the loop and go again. You haven't made any messes yet....

When you have 500+ primed brass, insert the 2nd tool head. Powder on 1st, boolet seat on 2nd, and crimp on 3rd. You shouldn't make any messes here either.

I know the case feed on that 1000 can work wonderful. This sounds slow but taking away messes, it would be as fast as the normal way.....with a primer inspection and a separate crimp station.

I just can't come up with a way to add the bullet comfortably in the 2nd station. Maybe a bullet feed in the 2nd and a seat/crimp in the 3rd?

Just Dreaming as usual...

Dale

My buddy from high school does it this way on his Pro 1000. We set it up to deprime and prime on one tool head for his 40SWs. Then the second tool head was neck expander die (cause he wanted to use it, could skip), powder charge, and then seat and crimp. His Beretta 96 and Px4 isn't finicky and eats them loads all day. I set him up with a RCBS seater/crimp die cause I feel it's a better die then Lee's at going both operations. The plastic cheap seater plug from Lee doesn't hold COL well enough for me. I normally have to get a set screw drilled on it if I use the Lee. Or a set nut, which is easier and cheaper.

This is just the progressive way of doing what a lot of us do on a single stage or turret. But way faster. I think it's a safer and more productive way. Like it was quoted before, if something wrong happens on the priming stage you just throw the case into the next batch. No binded up press and a mess of powder everywhere.

Jerry

[dikman]

I just remembered that I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die in.357/.38. I couldn't use it because with three-hole turrets there's nowhere to put it!! I might as well use it in position #3 on the second turret, so #1 powder/bell, #2 boolit seat and #3 crimp.

Sounds like a plan to me :D.

[Lefty Red]

I just remembered that I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die in.357/.38. I couldn't use it because with three-hole turrets there's nowhere to put it!! I might as well use it in position #3 on the second turret, so #1 powder/bell, #2 boolit seat and #3 crimp.

Sounds like a plan to me :D.

There you go!
I like to seat and crimp with a RCBS or Redding die and in one step when I'm doing revolvers and on my single stage. But it does seem to make a progressive press smoother with it is broken up.

Jerry

[castalott]

[QUOTE=dikman;3539329]I just remembered that I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die in.357/.38. I couldn't use it because with three-hole turrets there's nowhere to put it!! I might as well use it in position #3 on the second turret, so #1 powder/bell, #2 boolit seat and #3 crimp.

Might we impose on you for a short video of the entire process? I would love to see how well works....

Thank You , Dale

[dikman]

Sorry, Dale, but I never got into making vids for posting (which is a bit strange, I guess, given my past involvement in video/audio stuff). I intend running a few rounds through today to try it out, and want to load up some Black Powder rounds too. No reason it shouldn't work.

[castalott]

No harm in asking....Thanks Anyway..Dale

[dikman]

Loaded 30 rounds, just to try it out (plus I wanted to load a few black powder coated bullets). The system works great! Obviously using one press to do it all, as Lee intended, will be faster - but only as long as nothing goes wrong!!!!

I still had a couple of cases that missed a primer, but only because I didn't have many loaded into the primer tray, which we all know works better when it has a lot of primers in it pushing down in the slide. It's easy enough to just feed the cases back in again. The second press functioned flawlessly, the only problem is me getting into the right rhythm (which will come with practice). I can finally approach a loading session with the Pro 1000 with absolute confidence that it's not going to hemorrhage part way through.

You could still use one press and two turrets, just make sure that you disable the primer feed somehow.

So thanks for the great idea, guys, it's just so obvious I don't know why I didn't think of it before.

[bullseyewannabe]

When I had a pro1000 I gave up on trying to prime on the press and just decapped and reprimed with a hand priming tool. I have since moved on to a Dillon 550.

[Messy bear]

I use a LNL for just about everything as I can switch over cal in minutes and I have shell plates for it in hard to find calibers before hornady quit making them. BUT now days without those plates available, I would have to look at a 550 because they have plates for just about everything. I have loaded on a 550 and like them except they are 4 station. I would rather have 5. A 5 station 550 would be pretty versatile!
Messy

[Legion489]

Yup, the Dillon 550 is the best machine out there for the price, and except for other Dillons, the best press. Bought an used 550 and liked it so much I bought a 450. Of course the 450 is a dedicated press and the 550 has all the turrets for everything else.

When the US was hosting the Palma Matches, what presses did they use to load the ammo? Remember the host team has to supply ALL the match ammo, including practice and all other ammo needed.

Was it the Lee LM? No, they threw them out when they looked at them before bothering to bolt them down, as they would have to unbolt them to throw them out, so they just skipped the middle part. Hornady? Good guess but no. RCBS/Redding/Lyman/Star? Nope.

DILLON! A whole line of 650s and 1050s going 24/7 for a month and some to make enough match grade ammo (600 yards to 1000 yards) to supply everyone. THAT should finally get rid of the "you need a single stage to load accurate ammo! AND weigh each charge!" What, you think Federal Match loads are loaded on a single stage press and every charge is weighed? It IS the most accurate factory you can buy! But then the single stage press and weighing each charge WOULD account for the price!

Dillon makes excellent product, they stand behind it (I will not mention that Lee doesn't. If they DID, you would hear me praising Lee, but they don't. Cheap junk is still junk, no matter how cheap. At my time in life, buying quality the first time and not worrying about it is just cheaper and easier as I don't have the time to screw with junk), they have excellent QC and if there ever is a problem they fix it, instead of lying to you about it. Break a part? Call Dillon "Yes sir, it will right out!" Call Dick (and he is one) Lee and get called names.

Sure Lee dies (and some other stuff, but not the presses) are excellent quality, I have a huge amount of Lee dies, also RCBS (RCBS and Lee dies are still fighting it out for first place), Lyman, Dillon and others. Lee dies are the best bang for the buck, Dillon/Forster/Redding are the best period.

I agree with Messy Bear, a five station 550 would be wonderful. It would probably out sell all other presses combined!

[downzero]

Everything the 550 does and then some, the 650 does better. I traded up and I regretted it for a few years, but I love running my 650 now. The only thing I miss is the 550 priming system. Other than that, the 650 is awesome. The only thing I'd otherwise wish for is a swaging tool on the press like the 1050 has.

[r1kk1]

Everything the 550 does and then some, the 650 does better. I traded up and I regretted it for a few years, but I love running my 650 now. The only thing I miss is the 550 priming system. Other than that, the 650 is awesome. The only thing I'd otherwise wish for is a swaging tool on the press like the 1050 has.

Well no. There are not as many shellplates for the 650 as with the 550. That is the reason I bought the 450/550. I load quite a few wildcats based on the 405 Winchester for instance.

I do like the 650.

take care

r1kk1

[David2011]

Its kinda like buying a .357 pistol; you can shoot .357, .38 +P and .38's. When you buy a progressive press, you can still load one bullet at a time; the additional stations just allow you to do as much as you want to that round, without removing it from the press or changing dies.


I will agree to disagree with you on that statement. Majority of progressives I have seen that run well are doing so with one load. Every different load or caliber change is a set of followed instructions and it takes a few tries sometimes, resulting in even more tweaking. Much like the semiautomatics shotguns in the early 80s. Every spring or gas port had to be adjusted for every different load shot.

Progressives are great for specific loads in large amounts. Big it's not a press I want to try and develop loads on. My co worker won't even think of getting his 650 up and running for anything less than 1000 rounds. We normally load together to make to worth the work.

Jerry

Bonz is right. Changing loads on a Dillon is nothing like messing with the old autoloader shotguns. I've been using Dillons for 25 years. The only tweaking is the powder charge if you have separate toolheads for each set of dies but don't have separate powder measures. Even then, separate powder bars for each load are affordable. My threshold for single stage vs. progressive is 100 rounds on either the 550 or the 650. There's a video on YouTube that shows how to swap the primer punch on the 650 without changing the entire primer assembly that greatly speeds up changing primer sizes.

You also seem focused on auto-indexing being a bad thing. IMO manual indexing is a non-event and auto-indexing is OK but not mandatory.

David

[Lefty Red]

Bonz is right. Changing loads on a Dillon is nothing like messing with the old autoloader shotguns. I've been using Dillons for 25 years. The only tweaking is the powder charge if you have separate toolheads for each set of dies but don't have separate powder measures. Even then, separate powder bars for each load are affordable. My threshold for single stage vs. progressive is 100 rounds on either the 550 or the 650. There's a video on YouTube that shows how to swap the primer punch on the 650 without changing the entire primer assembly that greatly speeds up changing primer sizes.

You also seem focused on auto-indexing being a bad thing. IMO manual indexing is a non-event and auto-indexing is OK but not mandatory.

David


We can agree to disagree as well.

the progressive is an awesome machine, and great at what it does-put out a large amount of ammo in one caliber and loading. Nothing wrong with it. Sure you can adjust and swap out calibers and different bullet profiles and powder charges. And I'm sure you guys are like a NASCAR pit crew doing so since everyone is fixed on time. But you are not going to run the 650 like single stage press like you can on the 550. Sometimes when you are able to do more, you end up not being able to do simpler operations. It's a give and take. And sure you can spend your way into speed and ease, people that have it spend it on things they like.

i don't know where you for that I'm anti auto progressive. I choice a well running auto progressive when I when to crank out a zillion rounds quickly. But it's a once, maybe twice a year thing. I'm on my Lee Classic or RL450 daily. It's just what I choice. And my choice has nothing to do with your choice. And you will be blue in the face before you convince me your way is the best for me.

Once again, this open "letter" is just my observation on the presses nowadays and came about during my obsession over the last few weeks on what I was going to buy. I'm pretty much OCD and had a nice spread sheet type comparison on cost and function and reliability. The most complimented press was just about any single stage press from a company. Second most was the Dillon 550. I called Dillon and it's their bread and butter. They showboat the bigger and fancier presses, but they crank out the 550s at an ungodly rate. And there is a need for a good turret type press that doesn't take four or five pulls of the lever each time you need to make a round. And there is a need for a simpler manual indexing so the press works at the operators speed. If there wasn't, the 550 would have disappeared not be the flagship of a company. So I am wondering why isn't other companies doing this? But it seems like the companies are keeping its consumers playing the "keep up with the Jones'" and bling with their products. It's like cars. The hot rod owner like to tweak and have Add ons and a Bitchin paint job. While the work truck owner is mostly just worried about the maintence and running it through the car wash monthly.

I think Lee and RCBS is missing out on a really niche that only Dillon is itching.

Jerry