1917 Winchester Enfield

[Battis]

I put a 1917 Winchester Enfield 30-06 on hold for a week. Great bore, mechanically fine, but the wood has been refinished (excellent job). After I put it on hold, another "shopper" came up to me smiling and said he was going to grab it if I didn't. I asked him about that rifle and he said it was all correct except for the wood refinish, which didn't bother him at all.
They're asking $590 for the rifle. Is the refinish job a big deal at that price?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

To me it would not be a deal breaker. The question really is how do you feel about the price? If $590 doesn't seem like too much of a reach, then bearing in mind the remainder of your description of the rifle, I'd go for it.

If you are a collector of the "purist" variety, then the stock refinish would be a factor, but it probably isn't too hard to turn up another proper stock that is not refinished. Of course, you have to consider the cost of a replacement original equipment stock into the purchase price if that's the way you were going to go, but you could probably recover some of the money by selling the stock that is presently on the rifle.

Personally, I've always liked my rifles to look the best that they can look, and have little interest or pride in a beaten, neglected, abused relic.

One thing to consider, that might make this a good deal for you, is the Winchester brand. There were three manufacturers of these rifles, Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone. There were some complaints of brittle receivers in the Eddystone production, but the Winchester and Remingtons are considered to all be first rate---I never could understand why the Winchester is preferred to the Remington by some. Just the Old West mystique of the name, I suppose.

In the end, of course, you have to make the decision--but I know what mine would be!

[Char-Gar]

That is a good price for a Winchester Model 1917. The wood refinish does degrade the price from around $800.00 - $900.00. A collector would not be interested in a refinished stock, hence the lower price.

Some time back I bought a good Remington Model 1917 from a member of this board for a good price. The rifle stock had a heavy coat of varnish, being used (assumption) as a VFW or AL rifle. I stripped the varnish off the stock with Formsby Furniture Refinisher and found the original oil finish intact, complete with pristine stamping. The stock had not been sanded, just heavy varnish. In this case, it protected the original finish and markings. I just added a couple of coats of wax and all was good and original. It is a WWII rebuild at San Antonio Arsenal with a pristine Johnson Automatics new barrel at the time of the rebuild. I am very happy to have it. Here tis.

I also have an unmessed with Winchester Model 1917 that I spotted in a Deming New Mexico pawn shop in 1995 with the price of $150 on it, which was dirt cheap even then.

[Battis]

I've refinished stocks on my Mosin Nagant and a Krag - I also like them to look good. The other shooter that wanted the rifle said the price was good - that's why he came back for it. He has an Eddystone that he rebarreled and shoots in the CMP. He had alot of good info on reloading, sights, etc. I think it's a no brainer that the rifle will come home with me.
Thanks for the info.

[captain-03]

All correct but stock with a good bore ... you did well.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Always grab the Winchesters when I see them!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture001-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture001-1.jpg.html)

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Those are very nice, Mr. Wallace! Are they 1914s or 1917s? I see a couple of custom rear target sights? Also, on the bottom rifle, I've never seen a sling swivel in that location. I guess it's attachment makes use of the forward action screw?

[ndnchf]

Just for comparison, I just bought a Remington 1917 last week for just a little less. It is all original with mint bore, stock has bumps and bruises, but nothing serious. It's a blast to shoot!

[ukrifleman]

Those are very nice, Mr. Wallace! Are they 1914s or 1917s? I see a couple of custom rear target sights? Also, on the bottom rifle, I've never seen a sling swivel in that location. I guess it's attachment makes use of the forward action screw?

The top 3 are 30-06 cal Model of 1917's and the lower is a .303 P14 with a sniper sling swivel.

ukrifleman.

[Battis]

Winchesters are growing in my collection: 3 Self Loaders, a .30-30, 2 semi-auto shotguns, and soon the 1917 Enfield.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have 3 1917s, one made by each of the original manufacturers. Other than the markings I cannot tell the difference between them. They are all excellent shooters. My only concern has been why they did not make provision in the rear sight for windage. Of course one can move the front sight, but it has its limits. I did modify an SKS front sight tool with a bit of filing so that it can drift the 1917 front sight; It works well and solves the problem. Just for the record, the Eddystones were manufactured by the Baldwin Locomotive Works which were a subsidiary of Remington. LLS

[Gtek]

As Char-Gar stated, may be a preserved gem. Check for correct cartouches, stamping crispness, also IIRC on metal blue is original and parkerizing will be a refurb/rebuild. I have seen many a gov rebuild that was smoothed or sanded here and there. I agree with a chemical strip and BLO or like finish, I do not think shiny wood looks good on those. Good bores are hard to come by in my experience and the few I have shoot very well.

[Battis]

I didn't see any cartouches and the wood was shiny, which isn't my taste but it did look good. The rifle stood out in a rack that had a bunch of Ariskas, a few Steyrs, Mausers, etc - it's a great looking rifle. The bore looked good but dirty. I have it on hold, so I'll go back this week to take a better look, now that I know more of what to look for.

[goryshaw]

I have a 1/18 Remington and a 1/18 Eddystone already, both with original January 1918 barrels. Been looking for a reasonably priced Winchester for a few years. The Remington is beautiful, but the barrel is pitted from corrosive primers, and a royal PITA to clean after any shooting session. It is my preferred CMP vintage military rifle however. The Eddystone barrel is shiny, but the rifle is still coated with cosmoline. Some idiot completely buggered up the screw heads (not me), and I've never been able to remove the stock to give it a good cleaning. Kroil, Ed's Red, heat, nothing has broken the screws loose, I have a drill and tap set so I guess one day I'll have to just sacrifice the screw and remove it that way.

[Bigslug]

Wallace, I too am curious about the "target sights" on your second and fourth from top rifles. I recall hearing somewhere that it was fairly popular to swap in a BAR sight to get windage adjustment. Never seen what you're rolling with before. I LOVE the Enfield mechanism. Less fond of them as original rifles, but if I bring home a semi-butchered one that still has its ears, I might have to find one of those.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The sights are genuine Parker-Hale 5B range sights, quite rare in these parts and fetch premium prices on ebay. Here is a closer view of how it fits between the "ears"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/PH5B_A.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/PH5B_A.jpg.html)

[Bad Ass Wallace]

A bit off topic, but here is an original Mues sight on a 1896 Martini Enfield!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Meues_upright.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Meues_upright.jpg.html)

A Parker-Hale 5C mounted to a No.4 Mk1 SM Enfield

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/SMLE270_A.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/SMLE270_A.jpg.html)

My apologies to the original poster! :wink:

[Battis]

No problem - good info and pics.
The store where I have the 1917 Enfield on hold also had another Enfield on hold that they brought out to show me. I didn't get a chance to really examine it, but it had a detachable mag, a scope, and what looked like a wooden check pad on the stock. They called it the sniper's version. I can't find any info or pics on that rifle online. Any ideas on what it might have been?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Just as a 'by the way' the Enfield is a brilliant cast boolit shooter with the Lyman 311284 210gn roundnose!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/303Martini220CBE105_zps1440956d.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/303Martini220CBE105_zps1440956d.jpg.html)

[alamogunr]

To me it would not be a deal breaker. The question really is how do you feel about the price? If $590 doesn't seem like too much of a reach, then bearing in mind the remainder of your description of the rifle, I'd go for it.

If you are a collector of the "purist" variety, then the stock refinish would be a factor, but it probably isn't too hard to turn up another proper stock that is not refinished. Of course, you have to consider the cost of a replacement original equipment stock into the purchase price if that's the way you were going to go, but you could probably recover some of the money by selling the stock that is presently on the rifle.

Personally, I've always liked my rifles to look the best that they can look, and have little interest or pride in a beaten, neglected, abused relic.

One thing to consider, that might make this a good deal for you, is the Winchester brand. There were three manufacturers of these rifles, Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone. There were some complaints of brittle receivers in the Eddystone production, but the Winchester and Remingtons are considered to all be first rate---I never could understand why the Winchester is preferred to the Remington by some. Just the Old West mystique of the name, I suppose.

In the end, of course, you have to make the decision--but I know what mine would be!

A little late with this but still interested. I have an Eddystone 1917 and I'm wondering if there is any data indicating which serial #'s might be the ones with brittle receivers. I don't intend to stress it with max loads, probably not even close, but still it is a concern. Any info would be appreciated.

[Char-Gar]

A little late with this but still interested. I have an Eddystone 1917 and I'm wondering if there is any data indicating which serial #'s might be the ones with brittle receivers. I don't intend to stress it with max loads, probably not even close, but still it is a concern. Any info would be appreciated.

There are no brittle receiver Eddystone 1917s, one is as good and another. When the barrels were installed, a few were torqued down real tight and when removed, a crack might appear, due to the relief of stress.

There is no reason not to fire any factory pressure level load in any Eddystone 1917 in original condition.

[alamogunr]

Thanks!

[HABCAN]

Experience here in the late forties/early fifties was the Eddydstone 'brittle' receivers were harder to drill and tap for scope bases than the others, and +1 to what Char-Gar said.

[Battis]

Putting guns on hold or layaway is for people with patience. I got the Enfield today. The store said it has not been rebarreled or refurbished other than the wood being refinished. Very strong rifling. I have not cleaned it at all.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5225_zpslgagyard.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5222_zpsqv7xrfn9.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5228_zpsnd7a3l7w.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5218_zpsv2byqh08.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5229_zps67qg8bor.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5217_zpscrc3s9xk.jpg

[Bigslug]

MMMMMMMM. . .Parker Hale sight porn. . .ahhhhhhhh. . .

160498
Put a PH7A on my little Cadet.

160501
Here's my Remington sporter on the rack last summer right before I started the adoption process. Redfield sights not as sexy as the PH's, but it shoots NOE's 311299 like they have eyes.

My Winchester came to me already earless, but not completed. Soon to be a .375!
160503

[Battis]

The serial number on the receiver indicates that the rifle was made by Winchester in January 1919. The serial number near the front sight reads "2-18" for Feb. 1918. I'm guessing it's an original barrel. The metal under the handguards is all blue.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5241_zps2xmhcdfj.jpg
Other barrel/receiver marks
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5232_zps0dzms1zj.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF5239_zpsl5rolhr2.jpg

[lefty o]

if the rcvr was made in jan of 1918, then a feb 18 barrel is most likely correct. i wouldnt worry about it, what i see is a shootable rifle, non collector. enjoy it.

[Char-Gar]

To each their own, but I would use Formby Furniture Refinisher on that stock to remove the applied finish. This stuff will remove and varnish or lacquer type finishes, but not remove any underlying original oil. You might be surprised at what you find. The old finish may have not been sanded off. If it does need some new finish after that BlO or Tung Oil is easy to apply.

[lefty o]

its been well sanded, all you have to do is look at how much bigger the buttplate is than the butt of the stock.

[Char-Gar]

its been well sanded, all you have to do is look at how much bigger the buttplate is than the butt of the stock.

That is a pity! Just clean the barrel well of metal fouling and go shooting. These rifles use the Enfield Mk I front sights, which are available surplus in various heights. This can be a boon when getting the rifle sights adjusted for cast bullet shooting.

[Battis]

I knew that the wood had been sanded and refinished when I first saw the rifle, and I figured I'd remove that shiny finish if I got the gun. Now that I have it, it's not as big of a deal. I'm more interested in the great condition of the metal, inside and out, and the gun's history. There's a Doughboy statue in my town and I'm pretty sure he's carrying an Enfield.
I have plenty of brass, and I picked up a set of used RCBS dies for cheap money. Once I slug the bore or cast the chamber I'll know if I have the right mold. It looks like a great shooter.
It's missing the stacking swivel but Numrich has them for about $8.

[lefty o]

just as a side note, pretty much the rifle isnt reffered to as an enfield. most commonly a 1917 or us model of 1917. definately not P14! lol

[Battis]

Even Numrich has it wrong: "U.S. MILITARY | ENFIELD 1917"

Here's good info on the rifle:
http://odcmp.org/503/rifle.pdf

I've been called technically incorrect names from time to time. "Call me anything but late for supper."

[M-Tecs]

Even Numrich has it wrong: "U.S. MILITARY | ENFIELD 1917"

Here's good info on the rifle:
http://odcmp.org/503/rifle.pdf

I've been called technically incorrect names from time to time. "Call me anything but late for supper."

Thanks for the pdf. Great info.