How much lube

[eggbone]

I have been handloading for many years and I have just started casting. I have read voluminous threads and have but one question. At this point I will start tumbling with Liquid ALOX. Eeventually may progress to other recipies.

Just HOW MUCH lube is necessary?

So far,I have lubed a couple batches .45 ACP and .45 COLT boolits but ....what a mess. (I probably used too much lube.)

Is it necessary to completely fill the grooves? I suppose that if I used too much, I can add more to the batches to spread it to more boolits.
I will later cast faster loads(.357 magnum and a few rifle calibers).

The attached photo does not well represent reality. The lube is captured by the grooves but does not fill them. Overall coverage on the surfaces does not show well ((unless you enlage the photo) and the lube covers all surfaces.

Thank you in advance.

[WRideout]

Straight Alox is too thick and goopy; it doesn't flow well, and tends to coat too heavily. I added mineral spirits to my bottle of Alox until it thinned pretty well. I only use drops at a time of thinned lube on pistol boolets. If you can see the coating, you probably have too much. There's no need to fill the lube grooves, in my opinion.
Wayne

[Bullwolf]

When lubing with Alox, less is often better than more.

A good rule of thumb is that if you can see Alox on the boolits, you probably used too much. The goal is a very thin haze of lube on the boolits.

I borrowed a picture from Ben, showing tumble lube applied perfectly.

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/004_zps9f3f9f0d.jpg

Will it still work if you use too much? Yes.
It will just be a bit more messy.
(Tends to build up in your seating die) and it smokes more, also gets your gun dirty sooner.

Tumble Lubes in general are more of an external boolit coating, than a fill the grooves endeavor. Many boolits function just fine with a mild surface coating all over the exposed bearing surface.

A few tips to help spread out the lube some.

1. Heat your boolits first, before tumble lubing.
2. Thin the Alox by heating it first, or even dilute it some with mineral spirits.
3. Look into some of the easier to apply Alox mixe like 45-45-10, or BLL.

Recluse Lube, or 45-45-10 is a mix ratio of Alox, Johnson's Paste Wax, and Mineral Spirits, that's much to use, and dries less sticky than straight Alox.
Its a mixing ratio of:
45% Alox
45% JPW
10% MS
-------------------
= 45-45-10 (Recluse Lube)

You can read about it in the link below, or in the lube section sticky Tumble Lubing--Made Easy and Mess Free.

Tumble Lube Made Easy & Mess Free
45-45-10 (Recluse Lube) (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free)

You can also purchase 45-45-10 for less than it will likely cost you to make it, from our vendor sponsor - White Label Lubes. (http://www.lsstuff.com/)

http://lsstuff.com/store/images/45-45-10-02.JPG


Another popular Alox mixture is Ben's Liquid Lube. You can read all about it in the link below, or in the sticky in the lube section.

Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL) (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-%21-%21-T-L-Liquid-Lube)

Ben's Liquid Lubem, or BLL is even simpler to make yourself. It's just Alox, or Lee Liquid Alox & Johnson's Liquid Floor Wax mixed at a 60%-40% ratio.

Lee Liquid Alox 60%
Johnson's Floor Wax 40%
-----------------------------
Mixed all together makes Ben's Liquid Lube, or BLL.

(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?259285-NEW-!-!-T-L-Liquid-Lube)Many also use Mineral Spirits, Naptha, or even Lighter Fluid to simply thin out the Alox. Thinned Alox applies and coats much easier. The carrier helps spread the Alox around the boolits leaving less clumping, and evaporates nicely afterwards. Heating up the boolits, pre-tumble also helps things along.
(I personally use a hair dryer)

Another tip is you can thin out Alox, by simply heating the bottle before applying. For example submerge the plastic bottle in a coffee cup of hot water, until the Alox gets thin and runny.

Keep at it. You really do need less than you think. Before you know it you will be applying just the right amount.

I would suggest looking at some of the pictures of correctly applied tumble lubes in the threads I linked above to get a better idea of just how little Alox it takes to lube a pistol boolit.


- Bullwolf

[eggbone]

Bullwolf and WRideout

Thank youi both for the info.
I am happy to learn that the somewhat messy boolits have far too much lube.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I know this is somewhere on here but darn if I can uncover it. When you use the Lars Deluxe Liquid Xbox, 45-45-10, with the Johnson One Step, to form a variant of BLL do folks use the same 60 40 split? Thanks and sorry if this is redundant question.

[charlie3tuna]

I know this is somewhere on here but darn if I can uncover it. When you use the Lars Deluxe Liquid Xbox, 45-45-10, with the Johnson One Step, to form a variant of BLL do folks use the same 60 40 split? Thanks and sorry if this is redundant question.


Use a 70 30 split 45-45-10 to liquid wax.....charlie

[swmass]

+1 on the 45-45-10. Preserves alox which ussually has to be ordered, and takes away the tackiness of the alox. JPW also is nice to have around, I use it on my blued guns to keep em protected. Shouldn't take much at all, just a thin coating. My bullets have no alox color on them really, maybe a tiny bit in some places.. But not much.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks... "XBOX " darn auto correct is going to end the human race one day😕

[greenjoytj]

Please correct me if I'm mistaken but I always thought the tumble lube method would only work on the Lee Presision brand cast bullets that have many small shallow micro lube grooves.
It is this style of shallow groove allowed the tumble lube method to work.

[Bullwolf]

Please correct me if I'm mistaken but I always thought the tumble lube method would only work on the Lee Presision brand cast bullets that have many small shallow micro lube grooves.
It is this style of shallow groove allowed the tumble lube method to work.

You can tumble lube any style lube groove boolit. I do it quite often

Sure the Lee micro band boolits were made intentionally with this style of lubing in mind, but many tumble lube regular style lube groove boolits as well.

Here's just a few examples:

Lee 358-105-SWC in 38 Special, and 9mm.
(ones in pics are Tumble Lubed in 45-45-10)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=142136&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1434339770

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91449&d=1403146119&thumb=1

Lee 358-158-RF in 38 and 357.
Tumble Lubed in 45-45-10, or BLL
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133050&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1423625335

Lee C429-240-SWC Hollow Point
Mild load no gas check, and tumble lubed (TL) in Alox.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94235&d=1403145388&thumb=1

Lee C430-310-RF
Often Tumble Lubed in 45-45-10
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144254&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1423126753

Lee 452-235-RF
Often tumbled lubed in 45-45-10 for 45 ACP
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96558&d=1403161870&thumb=1

Lyman 356402 Truncated Cone - Left
Lee TL356-124-2R Round Nose - Right
TL'd in 45-45-10 for the 38 Special.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121601&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1415769058

Left - Lyman 358311 Right - Lee TL356-124-2R
38 & 357 TL in 45-45-10, or lately Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52571&thumb=1&d=1403145402

Lee 358-148-WC
Tumble lubed in 45-45-10, or BLL.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169043&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1428208583



I'm sure there's a few more. Go ahead and try it for yourself.


- Bullwolf

[CHeatermk3]

I put BLL over my Rifle boolits, after lubing and sizing. I think that having lube on the nose of bore-riding designs, like 314299 or 314365(NOE) helps and I firmly believe that a bit of lube on the driving bands also helps.

[John Boy]

Just HOW MUCH lube is necessary? Just enough to put a microscopic coating in the bore for lead bullets with obturation & sharp edge bases. If your lube forms a star at the muzzle - way past the point of need

[runfiverun]

this has some good pictures.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free

[nemesisenforcer]

No need to fill the lube grooves, but I make sure I can see the Alox at least just to make sure it's somewhat uniform and sufficient. Heat the alox before to thin it out. I don't dilute it FWIW.

[Shiloh]

Post #3 is how it should look. You just need a THIN coat. The lube that accumulates in the grooves doesn't lube much. I pools there. Traditional lube in the grooves melts and disperses as the boo lit travels down the barrel.

I cut my Alox by 50% and it works fine.

Shiloh

[LAKEMASTER]

My first batch of bll bullets I completely messed up. I dumped so much bll it was a mess. So I decided to try something. I put a lid on the tub, and every few hours I tumbled them. After the 3 rd tumble, I took the lid of and tumbled them again. And once more the next morning. The lube groves are completely full, I'm interested to see how much smoke comes off these.

[armexman]

Lakemaster,
Report back if these smoked excessively. With experience with BLL you will find that 3-4 DROPS will be enough for about 50 medium boolits . HTH