Chronographs

[Uncle Jimbo]

I have decided to buy a chronograph and went looking at different makes and models. I didn't realize there were so many makes and so many models with in each make. And prices to go with them.
So a question for you members that have them, what do you use and why do you like it.

uncle jimbo

[knuckleball]

I bought my Oehler Model 35P Proof-Channel Chronograph twenty years ago and never have regretted it.
But it does cost some money to get quality and precision.

[OS OK]

I have always liked my simple 'Chrony'…no bells or whistles…I can do the math…BUT…my shooting pard Sam just bought one that plugs into his iPhone and it keeps the records, tells you everything, you fill in the load details, it does the math, stores past tests…damn…it's pretty dang cool. I don't recall what it is called but I think he spent $149.00…not bad…huh?
Whatever you buy don't cheap-out on the tripod. Thrift stores are a good place to find one cheap but relatively sturdy.

[Hick]

I have a Caldwell Ballistic Chronograph that was under $200, complete with case,tripod, standard sun shades and IR light bars-- not terribly expensive and very, very reliable. It does not do calculations like standard deviation and such, but it does have a connector to connect to a smart phone and there is an app available.

[roysha]

Like knuckleball, I purchased my Oehler 35p about twenty years ago. True, they are about 3 times as expensive as a Chrony or other comparable units but I would gladly spend it again, if I had to, for the quality and precision the unit has. When you consider the fact you get virtually everything, stands, redundant velocity read, printer, carry case and the super support from Oehler, it is not nearly so out of line price wise, as appears at first glance. The only downside, if you can call it that, is it takes a bit more to set up then does the Chrony but the results are worth it.

For quick and dirty work or for when I allow folks that I have great concerns about their ability to not hit the screens, chrono some of their loads, I have an old Pro Tach that I bought in 1987-88. This old boy uses cardboard guides and the windows are very narrow and if the light isn't just right it won't read every shot, but it does come very close to the Oehler for velocity reading but everything else ends there. All the calculations except ave. vel. are calculated using an HP 12c calculator and the printer is a #2 pencil.

[Walla2]

I bought my Oehler Model 35P Proof-Channel Chronograph twenty years ago and never have regretted it.
But it does cost some money to get quality and precision.


Bought mine about 25 years ago. I have used it each month at least and sometimes weekly. The only thing I've replaced is the printing paper and a re-ink for the printer.

[HollowPoint]

Mine was a cheapo Chronograph I purchased from midway several years ago. To date I've never taken it to the shooting range because I hated the thought of getting the evil-eye from other shooters there as they'd have to wait on me to set it up before they could get back to shooting. I mainly bought mine for checking velocities of my air rifles and my arrows. I could do that in my back yard.

Just lately I've been eyeing one of those chronographs that straps directly to the muzzle end of your firearm. It's called the "MagnetoSpeed Sporter Chronograph."
I think that may be the wave of the future so, we can most likely expect for the prices of conventional chronographs to come down somewhat. My present chronograph works fine as it is; it's just that setting it up under shooting-range-conditions is less than convenient.

HollowPoint

[OS OK]

Mine was a cheapo Chronograph I purchased from midway several years ago. To date I've never taken it to the shooting range because I hated the thought of getting the evil-eye from other shooters there as they'd have to wait on me to set it up before they could get back to shooting. I mainly bought mine for checking velocities of my air rifles and my arrows. I could do that in my back yard.

Just lately I've been eyeing one of those chronographs that straps directly to the muzzle end of your firearm. It's called the "MagnetoSpeed Sporter Chronograph."
I think that may be the wave of the future so, we can most likely expect for the prices of conventional chronographs to come down somewhat. My present chronograph works fine as it is; it's just that setting it up under shooting-range-conditions is less than convenient.

HollowPoint

Just checked that out on the video. Never knew of that type…old dinosaur that I am! Is it for rifles/shotguns only or can it be used on a long barreled pistol?

I got my old chrony originally for tuning our 3-D competition bows some 30 years ago and that chrony still works. It's a miracle that I haven't shot it yet!

[Artful]

I think that may be the wave of the future so, we can most likely expect for the prices of conventional chronographs to come down somewhat. My present chronograph works fine as it is; it's just that setting it up under shooting-range-conditions is less than convenient.

HollowPoint

No the wave of the future is the doppler radar units - nothing to attach just set it up so it looks down range.

http://www.mylabradar.com/

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1091361

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1535699-labradar-my-personal-radar

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/16/review-labradar-chronograph/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Yy1J4RdEY

[HollowPoint]

I watched the video and I'm wondering if in a shooting range scenario where you have side by side shooting tables/stations, at ranges of say 100 yards or more this unit might start picking up the shots fired by nearby shooters?

The animated graphics show the radar pulses going out as cone shaped and the farther out they go, the larger that cone becomes. At extended ranges, the bullets of the guys shooting on either side of you might find their way into that radar cone.

Probably not but, I'm just wondering out loud.

HollowPoint

[obssd1958]

Hollowpoint,

I found this on their website:

July 26, 2015 Will LabRadar pick up other shooters projectiles

The LabRadar accuracy will not be affected by other shots being fired into your radar beam. Part of the technology built into the system allows it to determine if the shot came from very near the radar unit or if it came in from another location. Since the radar tracking is only active for a fraction of a second it is nearly impossible for you to receive a velocity from another shooter nearby. Your unit also has an adjustment in it to "turn off" most gunshots that are nearby, yet allow your shot to operate the unit. In rare cases your unit may be triggered by someone elses muzzle blast. If this occurs, you can easily delete that shot from your data.

[noisewaterphd]

I own many different brands/models of chronographs.

It depends on your needs.

Scenario One:

You need a ballpark idea of what your velocities are within like 50fps. If this sounds like you, then something like a Shooting Chrony, or Caldwell Ballistic Chronograph would suit you well.
I have both, and like both. I tend to prefer the folded compactness of the Chrony. Both brands have IR light kits available.

There are other chronographs to look at in this price range that work well also.


Scenario Two:

You are working up precision loads, and you need your chronograph to be dead on accurate. If this is you, then Oehler 35p or MagnetoSpeed (does not work with most semi-auto handguns) are what you need to be looking at. There are also the new doppler units that look really cool. If the doppler chrony was available when I bought my Oehler, I probably would have gone doppler.
I have the Oehler, and it is a great chrony.

Scenario Three:

You are a mad scientist, and have the means to build your own ultra accurate chronograph (not as hard as it sounds). This may or may not be practical for you, but it sure would be fun!

[Artful]

I can't seems to google a picture of it - but long ago I visited a lab and off against the wall they had a machine with a large drum of cardboard and it was used to measure bullet velocity - the drum rotated and you shot a round thru the drum which went in and came out - they would measure the distance between the holes and had a book with velocities that matched the distance the drum was able to turn before the bullet made it's exit. That was about the most mad scientist ballistic's I have ever seen.

[AbitNutz]

I'm still holding out for the LabRadar. I emailed yesterday and they now say April...of what year they didn't say. I have a CED and it works fine but setup is just a pain. I like the idea of no sky screens to worry about. Also, the fact that you can measure velocity at different distances down the range is awesome.

Maybe, April...maybe....

[Doc Highwall]

Artful, I saw a picture in Dr Mann's book "The Bullets Flight" that had a picture of a large spinning disc that was used for measuring the bullets velocity.

[dragon813gt]

I'm still holding out for the LabRadar. I emailed yesterday and they now say April...

Mine shipped yesterday so there is hope :)

[Rick Hodges]

I have a pro chrony...interesting he ran it without shades...then complained of errors. I have two chronographs an old one that you shoot through printed screens and run switches to read the lights and thus the velocity. (A pain in the *** as you change screens for each shot) but very accurate.) I have also set up the pro chrony with sunscreens in line with an Oehler model 35 with proof channel and the Pro Chrony was within 5 fps with 3 different rifles. It also compares very close to the printed screen unit. My chrono. is simple and only gives number of shots and average velocity but it serves my purposes. Cost? All of $89. (20 yrs ago)
To all who say the cheap chronographs are 40 and 50 fps off I say BS! We tested 3 "cheap" chronographs against the Oehler that day and all were within the shot to shot variation of the Oehler35.
You can pay more for convenience in set up and doing the figures and SD, but the cheapo works just fine for me. Read the instructions, set it up properly and it works well.

[noisewaterphd]

To all who say the cheap chronographs are 40 and 50 fps off I say BS! We tested 3 "cheap" chronographs against the Oehler that day and all were within the shot to shot variation of the Oehler35.


And I call BS on that. More likely, you didn't test them for long enough.

It's not that they are always 50fps off, it's more like they are off by about -10fps 60% of the time, -20fps 30% of the time, and 20+fps 10% of the time.

And that is a nightmare for long range shooters putting faith in numbers.

The problem is, you never have anyway of knowing when it was off by what percentage unless you also shoot through the Oehler at the same time. But that is an expensive way to use your cheap chrony!

[Rick Hodges]

And I call BS on that. More likely, you didn't test them for long enough.

It's not that they are always 50fps off, it's more like they are off by about -10fps 60% of the time, -20fps 30% of the time, and 20+fps 10% of the time.

And that is a nightmare for long range shooters putting faith in numbers.

The problem is, you never have anyway of knowing when it was off by what percentage unless you also shoot through the Oehler at the same time. But that is an expensive way to use your cheap chrony!

All I know is that on that day we compared 10 shot strings from a 22 LR, a .308 Win and a 243 Win through mine and the Oehler simultaneously (mine was set up in front of the Oehler at 15' from the muzzle) and the results were virtually identical. Similar results were obtained with 2 other chronographs set up in the same way. We were outdoors using the factory shades on the screens. The results were within the shot to shot variation of the 10 shot groups.

The Chrony's results are also very similar to the "shoot through printed circuit, light box chronograph". So, using your figures and the .243 at 3000fps: you are saying that the cheaper chrono's are within .3% of actual velocity 60% of the time, .6% of actual velocity 40% of the time, and at worst (total spread) within 1.3% of actual velocity. Not to quibble but it is also likely that they are dead on a certain percentage of the time.

You Sir, must load awful good ammo because (outside of the 22LR, none of the high power ammo we fired was less than 50 fps or so extreme spread for 10 shots. My 308 and the Oehler owners 243 are both sub moa rifles at 100 yds. So just how far do you have to shoot where +/-20 fps velocity numbers make a critical difference? It has been my experience that the load with the most consistent numbers is not always the most accurate. I have never been able to sight a rifle in for distance with a chronograph, I still have to shoot the darn thing and make my own range card. Published BC's don't always correspond with the results I get either. So just how far are you shooting anyway?

I am undoubtedly using a chrono for different purposes than you. I feel reasonably sure that the average of 10 shots is giving me numbers that are workable for my purposes. I would love to have an Oehler, but I just don't see enough of an advantage in convenience nor accuracy to pay the difference in price.

[NavyVet1959]

Just go over to Midway and look at all the models that they sell. Then decide which will look best hanging on your wall after eventually you shoot it. :)

[noisewaterphd]

All I know is that on that day we compared 10 shot strings from a 22 LR, a .308 Win and a 243 Win through mine and the Oehler simultaneously (mine was set up in front of the Oehler at 15' from the muzzle) and the results were virtually identical. Similar results were obtained with 2 other chronographs set up in the same way. We were outdoors using the factory shades on the screens. The results were within the shot to shot variation of the 10 shot groups.

Ya, the problem with any significant variation in the chronograph though, is that you now have any number of possible combinations, from either side of the variance being combined for a single reading. In the end this makes your averages and SD useless. At best you get a higher SD than reality, at worst you get a smaller SD than reality along with a false sense of confidence.


The Chrony's results are also very similar to the "shoot through printed circuit, light box chronograph". So, using your figures and the .243 at 3000fps: you are saying that the cheaper chrono's are within .3% of actual velocity 60% of the time, .6% of actual velocity 40% of the time, and at worst (total spread) within 1.3% of actual velocity. Not to quibble but it is also likely that they are dead on a certain percentage of the time.

Yes, they will most certainly be dead on at some point.


You Sir, must load awful good ammo because (outside of the 22LR, none of the high power ammo we fired was less than 50 fps or so extreme spread for 10 shots. My 308 and the Oehler owners 243 are both sub moa rifles at 100 yds. So just how far do you have to shoot where +/-20 fps velocity numbers make a critical difference? It has been my experience that the load with the most consistent numbers is not always the most accurate. I have never been able to sight a rifle in for distance with a chronograph, I still have to shoot the darn thing and make my own range card. Published BC's don't always correspond with the results I get either. So just how far are you shooting anyway?

Yes, I take great care, and great pride in the manufacture of my rifle ammunition. I always shoot for a single digit ES. It's tedious, with a *lot* of brass work, but usually possible, given quality components.

The numbers make a difference as soon as you shoot past the "zero" for your velocity/BC. At this point accurate data will tell you your vertical.

Agreed, never trust a published BC, you have to find it for yourself. But, once you know it, and you know your real velocity numbers you can reliably dial a scope every time at nearly any distance (given a quality scope with repeateable adjustments. Not as common as one would think).


I am undoubtedly using a chrono for different purposes than you. I feel reasonably sure that the average of 10 shots is giving me numbers that are workable for my purposes. I would love to have an Oehler, but I just don't see enough of an advantage in convenience nor accuracy to pay the difference in price.

That's fine, I totally understand that. It has everything to do with acceptable tolerances for the task at hand. And that will be different from person to person.

I had no intention of belittling the more affordable chronographs in my original post. I used loose terminology, in haste, partly to paint a clearer picture of my message. I would bet that the majority of my shooting through a chronograph is still using my Chrony, or Caldwell, not my Oehler. There is a convenience factor invloved, if I'm not working on precision loads, the Oehler isn't needed.

I also realize that the Oehler is expensive. It was not a "drop in the bucket" for me, it was a pretty major purchase. If you can't afford an Oehler, that is fine. I think a cheap chrony is better than no chrony. You just have to be aware of the limitations.

And, don't pull your hair out when you can't hit a single digit ES using something like the Caldwell, it very well could be out of your control. I learned all of this the hard, and expensive way. Just trying to save others some grief, not start a brand war.

[knuckleball]

Oehler's patent's and chronographs showed up over 30-40 years ago with the same accuracy/precision they have now. All these budget chronos were not around back then and the few that were did give never ending problems.

Just looked at my receipt and it was 1991 when I bought my Oehler 35P. We would think progress would be made as time moves on...

[ole 5 hole group]

I purchased the Oehler 33 back in the early 70's and the 35P when I felt the need to do so. They are one-time purchases and will last a life-time if properly cared for.

If you feel you have a need for a chronograph - saving until you can purchase the best on the market (within reason of course) is never a bad thing.

[TXGunNut]

No the wave of the future is the doppler radar units - nothing to attach just set it up so it looks down range. -Artful


Wow, at the very least a major game-changer. It may be a little soon but I think the chronograph as we know it just became obsolete.

[dragon813gt]

No the wave of the future is the doppler radar units - nothing to attach just set it up so it looks down range. -Artful


Wow, at the very least a major game-changer. It may be a little soon but I think the chronograph as we know it just became obsolete.

If the Doppler units live a long life and work well than you are correct. Mine will be here on Monday. There is currently an issue getting them in the hands of shooters. The technology should get better w/ time as well. We are in the early generations. I'm just glad I will be able to set it on the table and go about my business. And no chance of shooting it :laugh:

[NavyVet1959]

No the wave of the future is the doppler radar units - nothing to attach just set it up so it looks down range.

Sometimes you don't need to find a more complex solution to a problem since the original one worked well enough. Just like some people will pay extra for an automatic transmission, many of us are quite satisfied with a manual one (even if it wasn't cheaper). Why use a cell phone or a GPS just to get the current time when a watch works well enough?

[Artful]

Sometimes you don't need to find a more complex solution to a problem since the original one worked well enough. Just like some people will pay extra for an automatic transmission, many of us are quite satisfied with a manual one (even if it wasn't cheaper). Why use a cell phone or a GPS just to get the current time when a watch works well enough?

As a Futurist I find your prognostication skill lacking.

You do know that there are car models that are now not even offered with a manual transmission option...

I remember the first chronograph my old gun club in Oregon bought
- it had little paper screens with a copper wire pattern
- you changed them after every shot because the bullet hole thru the copper was what tripped and stopped the timer.

I still own wrist watches, and a Map and compass but
seldom use them anymore as my cell phone allows all that functionality in one unit.

Progress does not force you to change equipment in most cases
- but sometimes it limits what technology you can keep using.

Buying 8-track tapes, Cassette tapes, Beta Video Tapes, Laser Disc's all are getting hard to find for a reason.

[TXGunNut]

I'd never heard of one of these machines until the teaser from Hornady in which a Doppler unit played a supporting role. It's a natural progression from the chronographs we've been using for over 20 (30?) years. More data, the data is more accurate and it's easier to use. What's not to like?

[NavyVet1959]

I'd never heard of one of these machines until the teaser from Hornady in which a Doppler unit played a supporting role. It's a natural progression from the chronographs we've been using for over 20 (30?) years. More data, the data is more accurate and it's easier to use. What's not to like?

More complexity, more things to go wrong, more expensive to fix? If they get cheap enough that when they break, you just throw it away and buy another one instead of sending it to a technician, *then* I might consider it. I used to work on radar units, but they were very antiquated compared to what you see these days. Tubes, anyone?