I got bit buy the K31 bug

[ksfowler166]

I have been bitten by the K31 bug unfortunately my new found interest in rifles and pistols is a few years late. One of the things that attracted me to the K31 was the cheap price, which is how I originally became interest in it since I was looking for cheap milsurps. Yesterday I finally got my Lyman 311466 bullets in that I ordered in Dec. so now I have everything to reload for the 7.5x55 Swiss I thought I better increase my effort to find a gun.

I am debating what route to take for buying a k31, do I post a WTB on this or other forums, gunbroker, or do I buy from one of the importers? With the importers do I buy unseen, do I pay extra for hand picked or for pictures? Do I want to get just a shooter or do I want a nice original example? Lastly one can't forget what price?

Well I think I have narrowed down my choices but wanted to get input from the forum, I am open to any suggestions.

This is what I am thinking I want, a very good+ condition original rifle walnut stocked with trooper tag instead of just a shooter.

Here are some of the places, not all, I have found that still have K31s.

Samcoglobal
Their site is down but if I remember their price was $325 in VG with a cracked stock and no individual pictures.

Simpson http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=350_351_379&products_id=31152 (Sold)
$350 for a good-very good gun with a cracked stock
They have no cheap K31s in right now.

Collectors Firearms http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/swiss-k31-7-5x55mm-swiss-r18845/
$450 for good wood, excellent with arsenal repairs

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/swiss-k31-7-5-x-55mm-swiss-r19287/
$480 for very good condition

Gunbroker
Prices on GB ranged from $375 to over $500.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=540873196
Lots of pictures and looks exactly what I want for $400 but the auction still has over 5 days left and already has one bidder.

Best of the four $375 rifles. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=540227595

Worst of the $375 rifles. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=540226144

Colorado Gun Sales http://www.cogunsales.com/product/swiss-schmidt-rubin-k31-rifle/
This is what I am leaning towards rifles in good to really good or good to excellent condition. Prices range from $405 (regular) to $450 (hand picked) to $495 (custom picked). With the hand and custom picked all their stock of rifles are checked and you get to provide three preferences but with the custom picked you are sent pictures of three rifles they pick.

I really wish I had had an interest in milsurp rifles back when prices where cheaper for good quality K31s and GP11 was available for .50 cents a round. If anyone has an idea on where I could find other K31s for sale or could advise me on what a good price would be that would be helpful. Though any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

[rondog]

Don't know what to tell you about where to buy or how much, but I have two K31's and love 'em. Bought from private sellers.

I'm intrigued by your link to Colorado Gun Sales - never heard of them, and they're a 30 minute drive from me. Investigate this, I must.....

[BPJONES]

Yeah, prices are climbing on these as well. I bought 2 nice ones about a year ago, both with walnut stocks. Neither have the trooper tag which doesn't bother me. I paid around $280.00 for each. Now they go fairly quickly at $350.00-$400.00.

[WineMan]

If it is a cast rifle look for a 96/11, M1911 rifle or a K11 Carbine. They have longer throats and are more cast "friendly". The K31 is great, but the selection of cast bullets is more limited. I get good results with the LEE 155-312 and 160-312 TL sized to 0.310 over 16 grains of Alliant 2400 in mine.


Dave

[Kraschenbirn]

Much as I hate to promote a 'big box', if you've got a Gander Mountain anywhere near, they should have some late-manufacture (good+ condition) K-31s on hand...my local store has about a dozen in the 'used' rack. If your local store hasn't got any in stock, they can place an order for transfer from another store.

Bill

[Scharfschuetze]

Before the GCA of 1968, I bought a couple of rifles via the mail order houses with my Dad's help, but now I like to buy rifles that I can look at before buying. The idea of the custom selected rifles though would seem to be worth the added expense for you and I would probably do the same were I buying a K31 now.

Fortunately, I picked one up for my son and one for me back when the prices were very reasonable.

I think that you'll find shooting one as well as reloading and casting for it quite fun. They are truly "Swiss watches" for manufacturing quality and accuracy. Both of ours shoot jacketed and cast bullets very well.

[Reverend Al]

Just bought a K31 recently myself and it definitely is a work of art. The workmanship on these rifles is amazing. Any "pet loads" that you'd care to share? What are you shooting in your K31's in the way of "boolits"?


Before the GCA of 1968, I bought a couple of rifles via the mail order houses with my Dad's help, but now I like to buy rifles that I can look at before buying. The idea of the custom selected rifles though would seem to be worth the added expense for you and I would probably do the same were I buying a K31 now.

Fortunately, I picked one up for my son and one for me back when the prices were very reasonable.

I think that you'll find shooting one as well as reloading and casting for it quite fun. They are truly "Swiss watches" for manufacturing quality and accuracy. Both of ours shoot jacketed and cast bullets very well.

[Stewbaby]

Samco is out of business / bankruptcy/ up for auction so no luck there. I've bought three from individuals and three from importers and they were all great. The Swiss took great care. I'm almost more reserved in buying from an individual that could have neglected one.

[Stewbaby]

...though Century, AIM, Classic, SOG or such will hopefully pick up Samco's inventory and re-list soon.

Classic has the 1911 and K11 in stock

https://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/

As does SOG:

http://www.southernohiogun.com/longguns/c-r-longguns

[HollowPoint]

Just bought a K31 recently myself and it definitely is a work of art. The workmanship on these rifles is amazing. Any "pet loads" that you'd care to share? What are you shooting in your K31's in the way of "boolits"?


Before altering my K31 I was shooting the NOE Spitzer gas checked boolit on top of 16.8 grains of 2400 powder, Privi brass and CCI magnum primers. With my scoped K31, at two hundred yards I was able to print 1-1/2" groups on more than one occasion.

They really are outstanding rifles. I just wish I was a better or more consistent shot.

HollowPoint

[prsman23]

Simpsonltd
... Just saw you checked! Sorry

[Scharfschuetze]

Just bought a K31 recently myself and it definitely is a work of art. The workmanship on these rifles is amazing. Any "pet loads" that you'd care to share? What are you shooting in your K31's in the way of "boolits"?
Reverend,

When loading for the K31, keep in mind that they have virtually no throat, so that leaves you with the options of having to seat your boolits very deep or using a boolit with only a .300 or slightly less nose diameter to get the normal overall length for the cartridge and to keep your lube and gas check out of the powder chamber.

I've got the NOE 311-K31 mould that is designed with the K31's lack of lead/through in mind so I can load this one to the normal OAL of the Swiss round. It's a pretty heavy boolit so it holds its accuracy well out at the longer ranges when fired at 1,800 to 1,900 fps.

For plinking loads I have had good success with the 125 grain SKS/AK designs over Bullseye powder. I shoot these without a gas check as the velocity is less than 1,200 fps. Start with 6.0 grains of BE and work up to 6.5 grains or until you start to get some leading at the throat.

With the Lyman 311041 boolit of 170 grains with gas check sized to .311, try 7.0 grains of BE for 1,130 fps and absolutely stellar accuracy. OAL is 2.655" and feeding from the magazine is reliable. Both of my K31s shoot this load into 2 MOA.

For these very light loads, you'll want to drill your flash hole out slightly to prevent case shrinkage when fireing. Segregate those cases just for the light loads if you go this route.

Case capacity for the 7.65 Swiss is about the same as a 30/06 so most any cast boolit load for the Ought-Six is an option in the K31 if it is worked up to in the usual manner. I find that anything from SR 4759 through 4895 works well with the Swiss round.

If I size my boolits to .311," I don't need to size my cases at all. The neck diameter in the chambers is such that with a .311" projectile, I can just seat the boolit in the fired case and it has enough neck tension already to hold the boolit firmly enough for plinking at the range. Just deprime, reprime, charge, seat and shoot. No sizing!

With 168 grain Sierra Match King bullets, it is pretty easy to shoot very well at very long range. The only issue here is that the rear sights on the K31s are not windage adjustable so deflection becomes a matter of "Kentucky Windage."

[Hang Fire]

RThe only issue here is that the rear sights on the K31s are not windage adjustable so deflection becomes a matter of "Kentucky Windage."

True, but the front sight is in a factory marked diagonal dovetail slot. With brass drift and light hammer, gently drift it forward to move windage left, and backwards to move right.

Or, get a cheap nut buster, grind the splitter flat, pad the front diameter to prevent marring sight guard, and you have an adjustable sight mover

[Mauser48]

I bought one of gunbroker a few months ago for $325. There were several for around $350 also, and in good shape.

[MtGun44]

Great rifles, but the prices have tripled and doubled from when I bought mine.

Accurate, but the great GP11 ammo has been unavailable from most suppliers for some
time. Hope this changes, but it is a real problem. Brass is available from Graf most of
the time.

Bill

[Scharfschuetze]

True, but the front sight is in a factory marked diagonal dovetail slot. With brass drift and light hammer, gently drift it forward to move windage left, and backwards to move right.

Right you are Hang Fire, but I was referring to sight adjustment while firing. At long range sight deflection can change easily up to 10 MOA during a 20 shot string of fire in blustery conditions. A few of the Canadians that I used to shoot against at the NW International long range matches used Swiss rifles, but they had a really neat match aperture sight for them that allowed for precise adjustment during wind shifts. Wish I had one of those now. I can't even remember the manufacturer, but it folded down along the left side of the action when not in use.


Brass is available from Graf most of the time.

I've found that the Privi Partisan brass from Graf to be about as good as it gets for the K31.

[Stewbaby]

The below biopter?

http://www.swissproductsllc.com

[Stewbaby]

I've found that the Privi Partisan brass from Graf to be about as good as it gets for the K31.

I agree. I typically buy the loaded PPU from Sportsmans Guide when they have free shipping, shoot and reload the brass. I find it to be almost equal to GP-11 at the 100 and 200 yd distance I shoot. Handloads of course do better.

[Reverend Al]

Awesome information ... many thanks for all of the tips! I just put together a few basic test loads and now I need to get out to the range and do some shooting! My rifle was (I think) a bargain as it is an all matching numbers gun with the owners slip under the buttplate and an excellent bore. It came complete with the sling, some GP11 ammo, several boxes of reloadable brass PPU ammo, some once fired PPU brass, a like new set of Redding dies, and a copy of a reference book about the Swiss straight pull rifles from 1889 through to the K31. I paid him $500 for the entire works and thought that was more than fair to both parties.

:-D


Reverend,

When loading for the K31, keep in mind that they have virtually no throat, so that leaves you with the options of having to seat your boolits very deep or using a boolit with only a .300 or slightly less nose diameter to get the normal overall length for the cartridge and to keep your lube and gas check out of the powder chamber.

I've got the NOE 311-K31 mould that is designed with the K31's lack of lead/through in mind so I can load this one to the normal OAL of the Swiss round. It's a pretty heavy boolit so it holds its accuracy well out at the longer ranges when fired at 1,800 to 1,900 fps.

For plinking loads I have had good success with the 125 grain SKS/AK designs over Bullseye powder. I shoot these without a gas check as the velocity is less than 1,200 fps. Start with 6.0 grains of BE and work up to 6.5 grains or until you start to get some leading at the throat.

With the Lyman 311041 boolit of 170 grains with gas check sized to .311, try 7.0 grains of BE for 1,130 fps and absolutely stellar accuracy. OAL is 2.655" and feeding from the magazine is reliable. Both of my K31s shoot this load into 2 MOA.

For these very light loads, you'll want to drill your flash hole out slightly to prevent case shrinkage when fireing. Segregate those cases just for the light loads if you go this route.

Case capacity for the 7.65 Swiss is about the same as a 30/06 so most any cast boolit load for the Ought-Six is an option in the K31 if it is worked up to in the usual manner. I find that anything from SR 4759 through 4895 works well with the Swiss round.

If I size my boolits to .311," I don't need to size my cases at all. The neck diameter in the chambers is such that with a .311" projectile, I can just seat the boolit in the fired case and it has enough neck tension already to hold the boolit firmly enough for plinking at the range. Just deprime, reprime, charge, seat and shoot. No sizing!

With 168 grain Sierra Match King bullets, it is pretty easy to shoot very well at very long range. The only issue here is that the rear sights on the K31s are not windage adjustable so deflection becomes a matter of "Kentucky Windage."

[Reverend Al]

... and of course that was in our Canadian "Trudeau Pesos" so it equates to about $350 US ...

[Went2kck]

You are aware of the shallow throat on the K31. I have one and I have to go very deep on most bullets. Be sure to check that they are deep enough to go. I went to range with some new loads and got the first bullet stuck in their and nothing to pull it out until I got home.

[Scharfschuetze]

The below biopter?

Awesome looking set up that. I believe that I'll check into purchase details in the morning. Thanks for posting the link.

[43PU]

My buddy just bought 4 K31s at a gander mt in NC for 250$ each just last month all walnut stocks in good condition, I own 2 of them now

[ksfowler166]

Well it is official I just bought my first K31. It the first gunbroker link I posted, it going to cost me $457 +$40 shipping. So while I think the shipping is a little steep I figure I saved a few dollars vs buying from COguns which was my second option. At least some good came from today, I have been battling a stomach bug all day.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=540873196

[Scharfschuetze]

Congrats! It looks like it'll shoot. You'll have to update us when after you get some range time in with her.

[Ilwil]

Check Arms List-WA. I saw a 31 there yesterday. I often see them at the WAC shows too.

[MtGun44]

The only throat in a K31 is the one burned in by powder over time. When new, there is a 45 deg
chamfer on the back of the full height lands at the end of the chamber -- the Swiss use a two
diameter bullet. Front, ahead of the cannelure, is .299 and sits on top of the lands, and behind
the cannelure is .308, fits the grooves.

Newish barrels require extremely deep seating for single diameter bullets and boolits.

Bill