38 Special dies

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

I have a 3-die set of nearly-new Hornady 38 Special dies with carbide FL sizer die that I want to trade straight-across for an old-style set of Bonanza or RCBS dies.

I want only the standard dies, no carbide sizer, no fancy seater die.

My trouble with the Hornady set is that the seater includes a lead-in portion to the crimp taper that is too small to accept the over-size bullets my pistol needs for accurate shooting: This just doesn't work for me and I have to return the old set of Bonanza dies I've been using to their proper owner new week!

Post me a PM and lets work this out!

Forrest

[Char-Gar]

I long ago gave up on carbide sizing dies as they sized the case more than I liked. I have also had troubles with newer dies choking on the size of my preferred cast bullets. So, I feel your pain.

Most dies made within the last few decades are made for jacketed bullets and they do a good job of loading for those. Ebay is a good source of older dies, made when cast bullets were the norm, if you know what to look for. RCBS and Lyman are my preferred makes in older steel dies.

[SWANEEDB]

Would a Pacific Durachrome 3 die set be of any good to you? Are not carbide. Believe this set has not ever been used.

[FAsmus]

Char-Gar;

Thanks for the post and the understanding.

My hope it that someone here might swap instead of me having to buy another set.

Forrest

[FAsmus]

Swanne;

The critical thing here is like Char-Gar related: I need a set of dies - the seater in particular that will allow me to seat the over-size bullets cast bullets my pistol uses.

This relates to the way the seating punch is designed: It can't have a portion of the punch that "guides" the bullet into position. This works for jacketed but if it is smaller than 0.364 it interferes with the bullet and seating gets to be a terrible mess.

So, how is the Pacific seater designed?

Forrest

[j4570]

Forrest,

i probably have an RCBS set. I'll have to check tonite. Are you loading on a progressive? I ask because older RCBS sized in the first die and expanded and decapped in the second. Its a problem not to decap when sizing on a progressive

if I have a set I will trade you. Even though I hate that seater too with cast boolits. I know exactly what you are talking about

Jason

[FAsmus]

j4570;

Thanks for the post.

j4570: "i probably have an RCBS set. I'll have to check tonite. Are you loading on a progressive? I ask because older RCBS sized in the first die and expanded and decapped in the second. Its a problem not to decap when sizing on a progressive

if I have a set I will trade you. Even though I hate that seater too with cast boolits. I know exactly what you are talking about."

Very well!

Negative on the progressive. ~ All I have is a RCBS Jr. This Hornady set sizes and decaps in one die - expands only in the next die.

The old borrowed RCBS I've been using is as you say - sizes in the first die then expands/decaps in the second.

Do the checks you need to do and lets see how it comes along.

Good morning, Forrest

[BrassMagnet]

I have some dies that are likely what you want.
Can we talk?
PM sent with contact info.

[j4570]

I just sent PM too. Either way, fine with me.

Jason

[Butchman205]

Pm sent

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

Thanks for all the interest in my request for a trade.

Since yesterday a deal has been closed with J4570.

Good morning, FAsmus

[Char-Gar]

FAsmus.... There are two "issues" with seaters for cast bullets in handgun loading. The first is the size of the seating chamber, which determines just how big of bullet can be used. The second is the shape of the seating die nose punch. The older dies came with seating nose punches for RN, SWC and WC. I have trimmed that down to two. I take one of them and turn it dead flat in the lathe and that will work with any bullet with a meplat/flat on the nose. The other is left as round nose.

Here are a couple I have modified and they work very well.

[FAsmus]

Char-Gar;

The deal with the Hornady nose punch wasn't quite so simple.

Here is a shot of the punch as it appears inside what I call the 'guide' that moves within the die body itself:
159895

~ I know its small but look closely or expand it on your machine. I'm sure it works well for loading jacketed or "conventional" 0.357 - 0.358 lead bullets. The nose punch itself is the furthest inside it, it works well but, it is the 'guide' Hornady added to the seating die-body that screws me up.

My bullet is 0.362. The ID portion of the 'guide' (visible just forward of the nose punch), intended to position bullets for seating is 0.360. This is hardened steel or I'd enlarge it myself. As-is it hits my oversize bullet, deforms it and screws up the seating depth before the light crimp has a chance to complete the procedure.

The part of the 'guide' that holds the case in place is 0.383 ID and the OD of my loaded cartridge is 0.380. This is does not interfere with the seating procedure.

Clear as mud? ~ Anyway the conventional seating punch inside a solid die body has no such complications to deal with. Just set it and so long as the cases are pretty close to uniform lengths everything works first rate.

Forrest

[lightload]

CH4D handgun dies have cast boolit friendly specs. So do RCBS cowboy dies.

[BrassMagnet]

BrassMagnet has a fair sized pile of seating dies that would work well for cast.

[Char-Gar]

FAsmus...Yikes...Those dies may be some kind of super dooper new modern engineering marvel, but I don't want any.

I am something of a 38 Special nut, and have an assortment of dies in that caliber that I mix and match for best results. I have a Redding turret press set up with nothing but 38 Special dies. They are;

1. A 60s steel RCBS sizing die.
2 A Lyman . 358 310 expander in an adapter. I also have one in .357 should I need to go a little smaller.
3. A Special long RCBS .3585 expander for HBWCs in WC brass.
4. A Lyman seating die with RN and flat seating stems
5. An old RCBS seating die with the stem removed just to roll crimp.
6. A RCBS taper crimp die, just in case I need to crimp where there is not groove.

I deprime and prime using a Lyman 310 hand tool.

To farther complicate the madness, I often FL size with an old Lyman Shell Resizer using the arbor press and seat and crimp in an old Belding and Mull hand die also using the arbor press.

When I am feeling really retro, I use an old Belding and Mull Improved #26 to deprime, prime and neck size cases.

I will do entire runs of loads using the Lyman 310 tool or a Lyman Tru-Line Jr, set up for 38 Special.

No siree, none of those new fangled double thrown down fancy dies for me. The 38 Special is a marvelous round that has been around for well over a century and it hold no secrets anymore.

[Hamish]

Now, (I'm totally cereal here, no purple.). if Charles will do a little impromptu post about polishing steel dies, (forget what forum Charles, nice thread.), then I think there is enough solid information in thread that it needs moved and saved.

[Char-Gar]

Polishing steel dies is no great trick. I use a lathe, but a drill press or hand held drill will work as well. I used a tight bore mop with several wraps of paper shop towel slathered in Mother's Mag Polish. The mop/towel/polish is run in and out of the die about a dozen times and then the die is cleaned with rubbing alcohol.

Kitchen paper towels will tear, so the heavier shop towels is needed. I suspect any metal polish, like Flitz or Semi-Chrome would work just as well.

Hold the die body steady or a vise and spin the polishing gizmo in a drill. I put the die in the headstock of my lathe and the polishing gizmo in the tailstock chuck. It takes longer to tell you about it than it does to do it. There will be no material removed from the die and it will remove any micro burrs. I do clean the dies well before the process as I don't want to have any grit in the die to scratch it more.

[Char-Gar]

As long as we are talking 38 Special dies here, let me explain why I don't like carbide dies. They produce a sized case that is straight from the top to the bottom, sizing the bottom 2/3s of the case far more than necessary. The older steel dies produce a sorta, kinda bottle neck sized case with the top 1/4 or 1/3 being smaller than the bottom part. I hold the opinion that produces a reloaded round that is a better fit to the charge hole, providing better alignment for the bullet to enter the throat dead or mostly dead straight. This should produce better accuracy, plus extend case life.

Now, I have not tested this theory and if anybody says it is not true, then I am not going to the matt about it.

While on the subject of funky 38 Special dies, I have a set of very old Pacific dies when they were just two dies in the set. The first die sized the case as above while having a stem with a decapping pin, plus expanded the neck a smidge and bell the case mouth. This is done all in one pass through the die. The seating die is just a straight forward seating die with a roll crimp ring.

Now, somebody is going to ask, how can the case be sized as it does into the die, belled and not have the bell removed as the case is removed? I have wondered the same thing, but it does work. Some day I am going to sit down and figure it all out, but until then, I am chalking it up to witchcraft. Here is the said set of Pacific dies.

It should be noted when processing my posts, that I don't have a mechanical/mathematical/engineering bone in my body. My math skills are about Jr. High School level and I can't wire up a simple wall switch. I can change a tire, but that is as far as my auto mechanic skill go. I have university degrees in Theater Arts, Law and Theology, so I am an abstract artsy fartsy type. Some weird rip is the cosmos, caused me to be infatuated with guns and reloading, so by necessity, I have had to learn a little about this stuff.

[No_1]

This thread has morphed to a great discussion so I have moved it to the reloading equipment area as it appears the OP's needs are being met.

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen;

My! What rabbit-trails we do wander down!

I got into the 38 Special game from 45 LC shooting, where I discovered that a fellow really doesn't need to size cases at all!

My old Ruger New Blackhawk has such spacious chambers that one day I found that I could deprime, reprime, charge with power and seat the 0.455 bullet in the unsized case easily - saving two procedures in the reloading sequence. Fast, cheap and accurate!

I have fired thousands of rounds this way. The only draw-back is that lube grooves are a little too exposed for "field' shooting.

Since then I have not found a S&W 38 Special revolver that does not have this same kind of generous chambers. In a M10 S&W I own I soon found that I could shoot my old NEI 150-358-SWC as-cast @ 0.362 by simply deprime, reprime, charge and seat. This not only saves time and effort but the pistol loves it! Now I have a M36 Chief's Special too that works its very best with loads made up in this same way.

The cylinder throats are the ruling deal. The 45 LC throats are 0.452 so the bullets are 'sized' for the barrel during firing. The S&W 38's are likewise friendly - their throats are 0.358 so that my oversize 0.362 bullets are ready for the barrel as they exit the cylinder. It works perfectly.

Good evening, Forrest