Magazine primer explosion worries?

[Kevinkd]

Hey all... Got a Winchester 92 357 that I want to use my 38 spcl or 357 reloads in. I know the 92 doesn't like the 38 spcl unless I seat the boolit out a bit, but my main concern is in the lever magazine, the two molds I have (lee 105 grswc and lee 158 grswcTL) have a 'semi' pointed nose (meplat).

I see alot of people have used (or are using) these boolits in their lever guns which I find confusing. If I line up 2 of the 105s on a table, the small swc point of the back one fits perfectly in the small primer. Same thing with the 158s.

These both seem like it might set off a primer (or is the recoil so light it never can)? I also set my primers with hand tool, set them below flush and think it may be ok. Or am I just being paranoid?

I read all the pages on this archive http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-108234.html

Everyones thoughts?

Thanks

PS: If I have to buy another mold :lovebooli well, I'll just have to do what I have to do (maybe lee 158 RF).

[Outpost75]

Can happen with a sensitive primer, but very unlikely with .38 Special loads. In full house .357s used in a rifle you want meplat not less than 1/2 bullet diameter.

[northmn]

One trick I used for a cast bullet load for the 30-30 and a round nose was to use a flat nose punch when lube/sizing the bullets. For as cast? I have shot lots of rounds in my 32-20 using the Lee 120 grain round nose with no sign of problem but admit I use small rifle primers.

DP

[ironhead7544]

Long ago, I bought a bunch of soft point J-words for the 30-30. After firing a couple hundred full loads, I noticed the flat tip was smaller than the primer.

The Speer manual does say not to use their FMJ bullets in tube magazines.

[quail4jake]

I like that advice, the meplat being 50% of boolit diameter! I would not advise taking a risk on this one, many years ago I saw a rifle that was damaged by a tubular magazine cartridge ignition and the shooter would have to be severely injured. That was a .30-30 class rifle as I recall, I don't know what a carbine/revolver class cartridge would do.

[w5pv]

To be on the safe side if the meplat of the bullet the same or smaller than the primer I would single shoot them.You could chamber one and load one in the magazine.I don't recall getting more that two good shots at anything that wasn 't downed by the first shot.If both were misses probably a third was out of the question any how.

[Tatume]

If the meplat is the same diameter as the primer, isn't it the same diameter as the primer seating stem that was used to install the primer in the first place?

To fire the primer, an indentation is required to compress the explosive pellet between the firing pin and the anvil. The seating stem of a primer seating tool doesn't do that, and I suspect, neither will an exposed lead tip that is the same diameter as the primer.

[stubbicatt]

Personally I opted for the Lyman 160 RNFP bullet for use in my 1873 clone lever rifle. I've had that mould for probably 20 years now, or something like that. Nice wide flat point. I also think that the shape of the bullet does have some effect down range too.

I have read somewhere that the inside diameter of the magazine tube on some rifles is large enough to contain 44's and 45's, and as a result, when you press 38's or 357's in there, they get all cattywompus one to another, and don't line up straight in the magazine tube, but the bullet of each cartridge will press against the wall of the magazine tube. This should reduce the chances of a magazine detonation if the noses aren't touching the primer of the cartridge ahead of it.

I've read the same thing about 30-30s, that the noses of the round nosed bullets rest against the magazine tube, and so aren't lined up bullet-to-primer.

No spitzers in any of my tube mag rifles. Not worth the risk.

[Tatume]

This was a series of rifles made by Remington that employed a twisted magazine tube. The rifles were declared safe to use with pointed bullets.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Remington Core-Lokt in .35 Rem, .30-30 and .32 Win Special have been round-nosed for over fifty years. Spitzers, especially military full jackets might set-off a primer, dull lead - probably not.

[georgerkahn]

I have, cast for, and shoot a few lever's -- including a model 92. Jim Green (http://www.downeastgunworks.com/) posted a series of pictures just a couple of years ago from his range-testing one which blew up, doing quite the number on his hand! He never did a follow up, but I prayed his recovery was complete. Also, I believe a fellow named Ed Heers lost his left hand due to a primer detonation in a tubular magazine. Mr. Heers was employed as a senior ballistic tech for Hornady at the time, later dying in the same airplane crash in which Joyce Hornady died. This way before their leverevolution ammo was even conceived. And, a gunshop I was in a while back -- don't recall the town -- had a '94 in pieces fastened to wall above their bullet offerings, with a note to the effect, "Pointed bullets in a tubular magazine equals this!"
If I needed to make the choice between using flat or round nose bullets and not having the stress and or real danger of primer detonation -- OR -- shooting questionably-tipped bullets with Mr. Murphy's Law lurking to prove me to be the next blown-primer-tube poster child... I think you know which choice I'd make! Moulds are incredibly cheap when compared with fingers, hands, eyes, and even life!
Back "in the day", Remington produced a series of levers in which even Spitzers could be safely stacked in their tubular magazines. These -- Models 8, 81, 14, 14a, 141, 25 (and a few more models) -- had a spiral magazine tube with a patented groove in it, to guarantee the tip of any cartridge was not going to contact the primer in cartridge ahead of it. If you can find one of these... BUT, again, re '92s, '94s, and similar -- I'd NOT chance anything but WFN or RN bullets!
BEST!
george

[Kevinkd]

Ok, thanks everyone for advice. Yeh, I don't think its worth the risk so I just ordered the Lee 358-158-RF. Its a huge flat tip round nose so will work perfectly.

Thanks again.

[reddog81]

I'm with Tatume...
I've never heard of a semi-pointed nose. Either the nose is flat or pointed. If the nose is as large as the primer is the only thing it's going to do is seat the primer deeper.

[Geezer in NH]

Isn't a metplat by name flat? A flat nose 1/2 the size of the primers will not hurt.
\
Lots of 30/30 ammo has had round noses.

[w30wcf]

Bullet noses do not line up directly on the primer in bottle necked cartridges of 32 cal and under. That is why Winchester and other have used flat nosed bullets having a meplat much smaller than the primer. Straight walled cartridges are another matter. Best to stay with FN bullets with meplats larger than the primer, especially with rifles generating recoil.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/magazinefeed30-30.jpg

w30wcf

[Geezer in NH]

Bullet noses do not line up directly on the primer in bottle necked cartridges of 32 cal and under. That is why Winchester and other have used flat nosed bullets having a meplat much smaller than the primer. Straight walled cartridges are another matter. Best to stay with FN bullets with meplats larger than the primer, especially with rifles generating recoil.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/magazinefeed30-30.jpg

w30wcf

Not for nothing but what it is in the feed ramps isn't the same as the tube so ???????

[w30wcf]

Yes, actually they line up in the tube with the bullet nose pointing left, then right, then left, etc.

Lay 2 30-30 cartridges on a table nose to tail. That's where the bullet nose rests against the base of the cartridge in front of it.

w30wcf

[frank505]

After I don't know how many thousand rounds from 500 Smith lever guns obviously I still have a left hand. I've also never worried about it even though some loads were pretty heavy. Like over the book maximum. Testing is fun unless your recoil shy.

[wv109323]

I read an article where a guy tried to get a magazine ignition. There were two combo's that caused an explosion. Both were pistol primers in a rifle and IIRC they were 45-70 and a .44 Mag with pointed bullets.
Also I have a 1950'ish Shooting Encyclopedia that says primer tube ignitions were a result of turn of the century soft primer metal.