Badger or Green Mountain barrel?

[smoked turkey]

Your thoughts would be appreciated on the following question. If you were having a new single shot rifle built by C. Sharps would you opt for a Badger or Green Mountain barrel? From the web sight it states that both are used. Just curious if there is a big difference in quality of one over the other. Thanks for your input.

[Frank46]

I may be wrong but I think Badger no longer makes barrels for civilian shooters. If I'm wrong someone please correct me. Frank

[M-Tecs]

The old Badger barrels were some of the finest made. They are not making BPCR barrels anymore. Some place still have some in stock.

[rhbrink]

Go Badger if available and never look back. Green Mountain is a good barrel and are good shooters but not quite up to the standard that Badgers were. Just my opinion your mileage may vary.

RB

[Boz330]

As Frank said, Badger is out of production. I have 2 C-Sharps guns with Badger barrels and they shoot way better than I'm capable of shooting.

Bob

[marlinman93]

My answer would be two fold. Do you plan to compete? And what's the price difference? I also thought Badger was no longer available?
I've owned both barrels, and had excellent accuracy from both. I'm not a competitive shooter, so if there was a big price difference between the two, I'd be very happy with a GM barrel. If the price difference is small, then I'd go Badger, regardless of whether I shot competitively or not.

[Don McDowell]

I doubt CSA has any Badger barrels left in inventory. That's not to say they don't have a rifle or two on the rack with a Badger on it. Most likely if you ordered a new rifle today it will have a Green Mtn Barrel.

[Gunlaker]

I was sad to see the Badgers go. I have a Green Mountain barrel on one of my .45-90's and it shoots at least as well as my best Badger barrel. I think that he quality of the chambering job will matter more than whether it's a Badger or a GM.

Chris.

[country gent]

I talked to CSA last week and some blanks are now McGowens also. I have a green mountain on my hepburn 45-90 (1-18 twist) and it shoots great with heavier bullets 500-550 grns. Ive never had a Badger so cant wont comment there other than Ive heard nothing but how good they are. The one blank I am interested in is the Alexander Henry rifling form Kriegers is making now. That is an interesting rifling form. With the new modern equipment a truly good barrel is much more likel;y than it used to be.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks all for your comments on barrel makers for the 1874 Bridgeport from C. Sharps. I just received one I had built in 45-70 with a No.1 Heavy barrel. Someone here warned me that the rifle would be heavy even with a 30" barrel. They were right. I was disappointed to see that my rifle was built using a GM barrel instead of a Badger. I was under the impression that they used Badger barrels for their builds. I now see that there is a small paragraph on their web site that makes mention of both barrels being used. I expect that they are pretty much out of their stock of Badger barrels. I have only shot mine ten rounds using some factory ammo I happen to have. I am following the prescribed barrel break-in procedure they recommend. I have to say the GM barrel seems to shoot very good for me. (1" at 50 yards for all ten shots). I think it will be fine with the GM barrel. Its just not what I was expecting.

[Boz330]

I talked to CSA last week and some blanks are now McGowens also. I have a green mountain on my hepburn 45-90 (1-18 twist) and it shoots great with heavier bullets 500-550 grns. Ive never had a Badger so cant wont comment there other than Ive heard nothing but how good they are. The one blank I am interested in is the Alexander Henry rifling form Kriegers is making now. That is an interesting rifling form. With the new modern equipment a truly good barrel is much more likel;y than it used to be.

Henry rifling should make for a good barrel as far as fouling goes. No sharp corners for the fouling to build up in with BP. Probably wouldn't make much difference with smokeless.
I wonder what Krieger gets for them. I know they aren't cheap for sure.

Bob

[Boz330]

Looked it up and they get $450 for a barrel and you would still need to get it profiled for your gun.

Bob

[marlinman93]

The GM barrels are wonderful, and considering the price, even more so! I wouldn't (and don't) feel bad with a GM barrel on a rifle. My Ballard #4 Perfection, Hepburn, and Rolling Block, all have GM barrels, and shoot better than I can hold.

[country gent]

I agree Marlinman Green mountain makes very good barrels and they shoot very good. My CSharps hepburn has on on it chambered in 45-90 and shoots great out to 500 yds ( Farthest Range I have access to). I have a Douglas on my CPA in 40-65 again a great shooter and good barrel. I just was looking one night at kriegers Alexander Henry rifling form and think its an interesting form from years ago. No real sharp corners or sharp edges to cut or distort bullets. The spiel claims better for paper patched bullets. For years Boots Obermeyer made 5r form rifling for high power shooters that was a slightly diffrent form of rifling. One thing ( I bought my first Douglas blank in the mid 80s) with the new makers modern machines and technology in the machining trades, getting the next really good barrel after wearing one out isnt near as big an guessing game as it used to be. No Chances are the new barrel is going to out shoot the one your taking off for sure.

[John Taylor]

Being a dealer for GM, most of the barrels I use are from them. I go to other companies when they don't have what I'm looking for but I will not be going back to Mc Gowen. A new company ( X-caliber) is out there and making a very good barrel. They are expanding the amount of calibers as they go using all new machines. Just got in 9 barrels from Douglas because they were the only one that had what I needed.

[Baja_Traveler]

When I wanted to rebarrel my Pedersoli sharps with a heavier contour I played heck trying to find a barrel blank. Badger's are not available anywhere, couldn't find a Green Mountain in 40 caliber. Ended up having Shuttleworth turn a half round from a Douglas blank in 40-65. It shot as good as I could shoot at least and wouldn't hesitate doing it again.

[Chill Wills]

I have had very good shooting Douglas barreled rifles. I think no mater who the barrel maker is, a dinger will show up once in a while. Badger rifle barrels were great and their barrels are now missed. However, there are good choices out there still.
I had not heard GM was cutting the BPCR barrels from there line - is it just rumor??

[marlinman93]

I agree Marlinman Green mountain makes very good barrels and they shoot very good. My CSharps hepburn has on on it chambered in 45-90 and shoots great out to 500 yds ( Farthest Range I have access to). I have a Douglas on my CPA in 40-65 again a great shooter and good barrel. I just was looking one night at kriegers Alexander Henry rifling form and think its an interesting form from years ago. No real sharp corners or sharp edges to cut or distort bullets. The spiel claims better for paper patched bullets. For years Boots Obermeyer made 5r form rifling for high power shooters that was a slightly diffrent form of rifling. One thing ( I bought my first Douglas blank in the mid 80s) with the new makers modern machines and technology in the machining trades, getting the next really good barrel after wearing one out isnt near as big an guessing game as it used to be. No Chances are the new barrel is going to out shoot the one your taking off for sure.

There have been many great barrels made by some individuals, and I've always wondered with the recorded success, why no big company is making similar land/groove contours today? I've got an old George C Schoyen barreled Ballard, and after over 100 years of shooting, it still outshoots newer barrels regularly. When I recently purchased a Chinese bore scope, I sat down and looked at it, plus several old Ballard, Rolling Block, and Winchester 1885 barrels. Also looked at my Zettler rifled Winchester .22 barrel. In comparing them all to my newer barrels, I saw several things that immediately caught my attention. First off the older Schoyen and Zettler barrels had shallower rifling, which I believe doesn't disturb cast lead as badly as deep rifling. I also noticed the sides of the grooves aren't as perpendicular as newer rifling. A much more gradual angle, or as my Schoyen, a somewhat rounded groove edge. The Zettler is very unique, as it looks more like Marlin's Micro Groove rifling, than like other rifling of that period. Zettlers used far more lands and grooves than other makers, and my .22 Short match barrel has 10 lands and grooves. Most of my old .22RF barrels have 5 lands and grooves.

[country gent]

One thing to remeber on those old barrels is The makers NAME went on them in the day this meant something to the makers and the owners. While the equipment wasnt as "state of the art" as it is now, the pride and crafstmanship were as strong or more so than today. Those old barrels were hand lapped with slugs cast from a section of them or driven thru them. This was a time consuming process the way it was done. 3-5 passes rotate 1 groove continue for at least 1 full rotation check for finish and size new slug and finer compound repeat. some did partial strokes to put a mild taper in the bore from breech to muzzle also. Lapping th barrel was an art in itself. A lapping slug could be up to 3" long and never fully left the blank until it was time to rotate it. This process made for very accurate dimensioned barrels with very consistant rifling. A broached rifled, button rifled, hammer forged barrel can end up with tooling marks smeared or even radial left in the barrel ( Some top line makers are now lapping these barrels also for size and finish). Harts were one of the better makers they drilled reamed and button rifled then hand lapped thier blanks were marked on "Breech" end as the lapping produced a lay to finish and a slight taper to the bore. More barrel makers have sprung up with good reputations for accurate barrels. Shillen, Er Shaw, Douglas, Lilja, PAc Nor, Krieger and spin off criterion, Mc Gowen, Brutz, There are many some are pretty specialized some have a full line. A cut rifled maker can offer more twist rates as its a sine bar type set up to set the twist rate. Some lapp to finish and size before rifling also. A good accurate winning barrel used to be cherished and protected saved for important matches. Now chances are the next barrel will be as good as or better than the last.

[marlinman93]

Afraid I'll have to disagree with the statement "those barrels were hand lapped" with anything! Those old barrel makers prided themselves in NOT lapping their rifling! In fact HM Pope was known to throw people out of his shop for even asking if he lapped his barrels!
The finest barrel makers of old were so careful cutting their grooves that Pope mentions he used cigarette paper as a shim on his cutter to ensure that each cut was carefully increased in depth, so it would not leave any chatter marks in the groove. Schoyen, Schalk, etc. all used similar methods and would be appalled at the thought of having to lap a barrel's bore.
Later barrel makers might take the shortcut of taking deeper cuts, and then lapping out their chatter marks, but not the masters of old.