454424 vs 452454 Lyman molds

[Mike in Reedley]

About 20 years ago I bought a Lyman 452454 2 cavity mold and had great luck with it in a variety of .45 Colts. Ten years or so ago I bought what I thought was a used four cavity mold ( but was really a 454424 mold) of the same bullet at a swap meet.

I finally got around to casting some boolit with the 4 cavity and mixed those in with some boolit from the two cavity. Last night I was loading some near max loads for a 250 grain boolit in a Colt SAA and noticed the lube rings were different on some of the boolits. Some had squared bottoms and some radius. After loading 50 I noticed the meplats were different on the two boolits.

I finally woke up and weighed the two different boolits and learned the 2 cavity (squared Keith grease rings) throws a 248 grain boolit while the 4 cavity radius rings throws a 268 grain with the same alloy.

I was was able to separate out the two different boolits by comparing meplats and confirming the difference by weighing each loaded round. After a bit of Internet searching I learned that Lyman made a couple of variations of the 452454 and 454424 mold.

I'm sure glad I caught my error before running those heavy, way over weight loads through my Colt. I hope my long winded story might keep others from the same mistake. Now I'm off to pull some boolits!

[bedbugbilly]

I have seen it discussed where the same mold number ended up with some changes over the years to the boolit design - such as you describe.

I currently have two molds I use for my Uberti 7 1/2" 45 Colt SAA Cattleman. One is a 452-430 (I think that's the number) that casts a 200 grain SWC intended for 45 ACP. I have a single cavity Ideal and a double cavity Lyman set of blocks. Both cast almost identical in weight and the design is the same. I also cast the 454-190 250 grain RNFP traditional boolit. I have two single cavity sets of blocks - one Ideal and one Lyman and a double cavity Lyman. The design is the same on all three as far as lube groove, etc. but non of the three blocks cast the same weight boolit when casting from the same batch of range lead. Of course you get the same variance in weight by a few grains or so but one will drop a boolit that is in the 251 - 155 gr. range and one drops them at 260. Perhaps just the wear on the cherry they were cut with.

Of the 200 gr. SWC and the 250 ish gr. RNFP - one being a 452 mold and the other a 454 mold - I shoot all of them "as cast" and don't size either design. My chambers in the Cattleman are on the generous side and the throat are of ample size that all go down range just fine. BUT . . . I am loading on the mild side and not pushing them at near max as you mention you are.

Glad your caught those that you had . . . don't feel bad as when you are working with what you were, it's easy enough to miss as they look alike. Just one of those things you have to be aware of and I'll bet you won't get them mixed together again! Good luck and have fun!

[Mk42gunner]

It has been reported many times that Lyman has several variations of the same mould number; which isn't really surprising given the number of cherries they have to have used, given how many moulds are out there.

I wonder how many boxcars could be filled with worn out cherries, just from the .44, .45, and .38 Keith molds they made in the last eighty or so years?

Robert

[runfiverun]

none they are still using them today, they just change the mold number as the cherry gets smaller and smaller.
okay im sorta kidding.

[Green Frog]

It stands to reason that if one mould was labeled 252454 and the other 254454 Lyman would have used two different cherries cut on the same general design, but individual cherries cut at different times, probably by different tool and die makers. While custom mould makers may finish their moulds to final diameter on a lathe or by reaming, I wouldn't expect Lyman to open moulds up that much as a matter of routine.

Froggie