Dang 450!!!

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Well, things always happen at the wrong time. The misses is out of town for the weekend, and I've got all the time in the world to work on really important things, like casting and sizing bullets, without interruption. Wouldn't you know it? I'm down there reducing the rear two driving bands on .427boolets to .407, and the dang handle link snaps. What's worse, Lyman isn't open 'till Monday morning. I thought they were forged, I guess they're just cast. Can't complain, I guess, I'd replaced the stock handle with one that resembles the 4500 years ago, and it must have been too much for it.
I was experimenting with a collar I slipped over the bullet, to limit the downward movement of the top punch. I was cut and trying, reducing the length of the collar on the lathe, 'till I got the right amount of reduction, when it went. Wonder if Lyman will replace it gratis? In the meantime, I'll have to cannibalize my other.450.
Morgan

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/450link1.jpg

[Swagerman]

Same thing happen to me some time back, got another elbow part and mounted it a little different on my lube press.

It now rest on the right side of the ram linkage...not in the middle. Just get some longer bolts to hold things in place. Seems to work OK...it's the gray one.
Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PB250001650X487rtpLeeejector.jpg

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I examined the linkage, I don't know why Lyman designed it with so little material around the bolt holes, there's enough clearance for a for a much heavier profile. I'm not even going to order a new one, I'll just fabricate one out of steel. Probably don't even need tool steel, CRS should be enough. It will still outlast the rest of the press.
Morgan

[dubber123]

First pull on my same model 450 did the same thing. 1/4" plate steel fixed that. The foam covered handle is cast too, and will break right at the threads. Steel rod will fix that. Or just get one of the older 450's that don't have the cast crap on them. (Usually cheaper to buy too).

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I'll make a trial piece out of 1/16" aluminum, with just enough clearance for operation, and use it as a template, cutting the steel plate out on my bandsaw. The handle leg, I'll make a bit longer, mill a slot for it in the steel handle with the ball, drill through both and pin. That should fix it for good. Any other weak parts on these things? I bought them to replace my 45's, because they had more leverage, and I thought the long cast handle on the 45 a weak point. Boy was I wrong. Had the 45's over thirty years, and never broke a part.
Morgan

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Well, I made the template, out of .068 aluminum. I was surprised how much heavier the link could have been made, especially at the angle, where it cracked, so I took a photo to post. I'll probably fabricate the steel link and handle tomorrow.
Morgan
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/link1.jpg

[Swagerman]

That looks really good, nice going.

I'm willing to buy one from you...:)

Jim

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jim, Too labor intensive. If I had a CNC band saw, I'd stack a few plates and cut them out. If you'd like, I can make another template and mail it to you. With luck, you should be able to buy a 1/4" thick "L" mending plate, and make it out of that, if the existing holes aren't in the way. They're used for building decks. When you make the link, you can make a handle for it, by sandwiching it between two pieces of 3/4"x1/8" bar stock, drill, rivet and slip a bicycle handle over it. If I didn't have a milling machine, and the steel handle already made, that's what I would do

I decided I'd rather not push the 1/4" steel plate through my band saw, and instead, profiled it on the Bridgeport. Couldn't find a 1/4" 3 flute or a roughing mill with 1" flute length, to slot the handle, so, ordered a few. Probably won't come 'till Wed. This is the link, next to the template. I'll post a photo of the finished handle, when completed. I'm still going to call Lyman on Mon. and bitch. This was no way to manufacture a product.
Morgan
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/link2.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/link3.jpg

[Swagerman]

Thank you anyway on the fine offer to make a template, but I'm way too old and lack of proper equipment to get the job done like yours.

My jury rigged 450 handle is still holding up for me by being mounted side saddle.


Now the old Lyman 45 is giving me trouble with the snap-on O-rings on the elbow linkage, seems to have rusted away...found this out when it came apart on me while lube sizing some .45 caliber slugs. A trip to the local Ace hardware should get me some new snap O-rings.

Thanks, Jim

[Morgan Astorbilt]

JIm, Side mounting may introduce side torque. Maybe not, but the original position was designed to eliminate it. The two giude rods on my 45 attemptred to do this, more or less. If 1/4" stock is too difficult to work, there's no reason you couldn't stack two pieces of 1/8" .

Re the 45, they're probably "E- clips", ask for them. Sorry about not being able to help you out, "one off" takes a lot of time.
Morgan

[454PB]

I had the same problem, and mine broke exactly where yours did. I fabricated a link from a piece of 1/4" steel strap, then welded the female threads off the broken piece onto the new one, and it's held up for thousands of boolits. I also replaced all the pins with grade 8 bolts and Nylock nuts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/HPIM0552Medium.jpg

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Yes, the rear bolt on this one broke last year, and I used a grade 8 bolt to replace it. The front bolt is bent, I had to drive it out to try the new link. The strain on the ends of that one, is only when ejecting the bullet. Sizing is a shearing force, due to the close fit in the ram slot. I'll replace that one also. Don't know why they're made so crappy. A stamped piece would have held up better than that cast one. Their accountants must trump their engineers.:mrgreen:
Morgan

[NoDakJak]

I am certainly glad to hear of your experiences with the Lyman 450. I purchased one new when they first came on the market and within two years had ripped the lube pressure screw out due to the low temps in my basement. That was with plain alox lube. I now use a hair drier to heat the sizer when using it during the winter months and another one with hard lube has a aluminium plate sandwiched between the wood and the sizer. I sit a travel iron on it and use it as a heating unit. Simple and cheap. I sized linotype boolits in it one time and decided that it was to hard on my equipment and now use it for softer alloys. I have had no other problems with them other than some minor leakage past the O Rings. I have had zero [roblems with my Seaco sizer during the eighteen years that I have owned it. Bought a used RCBS Sizer about a year ago but haven't used it yet since it is set up for 40 S&W. Is there anything good or bad that i sould look for on it? Neil

[LAH]

I'm down there reducing the rear two driving bands on .427boolets to .407, and the dang handle link snaps.

That's sounds like enough to break the handle. About .003 is all I've tried. Were you going the .020 in one step?

[Morgan Astorbilt]

That's sounds like enough to break the handle. About .003 is all I've tried. Were you going the .020 in one step?

Yes, I was going in one step. No, it wasn't much of a load.
1- The bullets are very soft, 30-1 lead-tin, with no antimony.
2- The sizing die was a Lyman, which has a tapered opening.
3- I was only sizing the two lower driving bands, the bottom to .407, and the one above it to .415(due to the taper).

I was doing "cut and try" with a stop collar, using a bullet that had already been sized, and adjusting the collar's length on the lathe, and when I brought down the ram to meet the collar, the link broke. It was just it's time. To date, the heaviest load I've put on that sizer, was 500gr. .458 bullets of straight Lino., reducing .002" This sizing job was not half as tough.
Morgan

[LAH]

I also broke a handle using a Lyman .512 die. Probably like yours, it was time though I'm the first to admit I was using to much pressure. I have the new type handle now & so far so good. I don't use the Lyman 450 much these days except for this one large bullet.

Creeker

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I also broke a handle using a Lyman .512 die. Probably like yours, it was time though I'm the first to admit I was using to much pressure. I have the new type handle now & so far so good. I don't use the Lyman 450 much these days except for this one large bullet.

Creeker

Is the "new type" handle a replacement for the 450? Is it the 4500 handle? I also size for my .50-70, but use softer bullets than in my .45-70.
Morgan

[LAH]

Morgan, best I remember it was a replacement kit with the same parts the 4500 uses. My linkage was different and the handle. Guess my 450 now looks like a 4500.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I called Lyman, to complain. She was going to send me another link, but when I told her it was a 450, not a 4500, she told me it was out of warranty, and I could buy a handle upgrade for $18.00. I asked her about just sending me the upgraded link, because the other one shouldn't have broken, and I'll make my own handle, and she said it would still cost me $9.00. Told her never mind, I'll make my own, and although I've got four Lyman sizers, next time I'll buy RCBS. So much for customer relations:mrgreen:
Morgan

[colbyjack]

i could heat treat that homemade part. give it a lite case harden .005"-.010" and paint the one end with nocarb. so if you got to weld it to a handle itd stick good. -chris

[LAH]

I also broke a handle using a Lyman .512 die. Probably like yours, it was time though I'm the first to admit I was using to much pressure. I have the new type handle now & so far so good. I don't use the Lyman 450 much these days except for this one large bullet.

Creeker

I should have said I broke the handle while using a Stillwell .512 die. Sorry............Creeker

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Well. The 1/4" roughing mill came this afternoon, and the handle/link assembly is finished. I milled a 1/4" slot down the handle, pressed in the link, drilled and cross pinned it with two 1/4" steel dowels. Ground everything smooth and blued. Ready to re-install in the sizer.
Morgan

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/handle1.jpg

[Morgan Astorbilt]

If anyone needs an original screw on 450 handle, it's yours for the shipping, send me a PM.
Morgan

[Swagerman]

Morgan, are you set up to do your own bluing?

Jim

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Yes, but I no longer do hot bluing, sold my tanks. I just do chemical bluing, using Brownells Oxpho Blue. If you warm the parts and rinse between coats with hot water, you'd be surprised at the results, and you don't need to dedicate a separate room or building, to protect your machinery from rust.
Morgan