TC renegade value?

[54bore]

I seen a really nice looking renegade in a pawn shop close by for 279.00 the gun looked near perfect, nice bright blueing, no rust anywhere I could see? Wood and finish looked great. All I could see in the barrel was just an inch or so from the muzzle so not sure there? What little tiny bit I could see looked good. What is a fair value on one in really good shape? I really like the set trigger

[Nobade]

Well worth that if the bore is perfect. Especially if it's a flintlock.

-Nobade

[54bore]

Well worth that if the bore is perfect. Especially if it's a flintlock.

-Nobade

It's not a flintlock, how do you guys go about inspecting a bore?

[54bore]

Being new to muzzleloaders I don't know how to thoroughly inspect a front stuffer?

[Rifle 57]

Go to ebay and type in endoscope they are cheap and you can hook them to your PC or your cell phone. I bought one that has a 7mm minimum bore diameter and they have a light on them also so you can see into a blind hole like a muzzle loader barrel.

[Beagle333]

You can see a lot with just a little bore light from WalMart or Amazon. These are pretty cheap: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/715717/winchester-flexible-led-bore-light

You can also get some little disposable fishing bobber lights (again from WalMart) and drop them down the bore and light it from the bottom.

IMHO, $279 + tax is a little high for a percussion Renegade.

[LAGS]

I would say in the low $200's is a better price.
But if the bore is great, then it it is worth considering.
I picked up a .50 T/C Hawken a few months back built from a Kit and never fired for $130.00.
The guy didnt do too bad of a job putting it together, but i plan to totally refinish it and do a little custom work to it when I strip the stock.

[triggerhappy243]

159491159492this light is marketed by cva. available from most shooting supply places. it is what I use. About the size of a AAA battery.

[triggerhappy243]

Also, Keep in mind if you wave real cash money in the guys face.... say $20.00 bills, you can negotiate. Muzzleloader season is over around here. so that rifle would sit and collect all kinds of dust sitting in a pawn shop.

[marlin39a]

Sounds like a keeper to me, if it's not a kit gun (K prefix). Price is in line with value. I look for older guns with 5 digit serial #s and always without warnings. If you like it, go for it!

[BPJONES]

Wow, sure a difference in price for these things down South compared to Canada. If it is as nice as claimed, the rifle would be gone here in about 10 minutes if listed for $350.00-$375.00. And I'm talking before our dollar tanked.

[54bore]

This one is .54 cal which I prefer, I might go back today with a regular bore light and look the barrel over the best I can, I'm fairly confident this gun has had very little use, it was taken good care of, at least the externals were, even the stock shows no wear to speak of, my dad has a renegade and really likes it.

[bubba.50]

I have seen Renegades that were nice enough to be worth that price and a 54cal Renegade is about the best you can get IMHO but, to me that would be the very top dollar. the thing I would consider is it's in a pawn shop and they probably have less than 100 bucks in it so, I would do a lot of hagglin' & maybe even walk away a time or two before i'd just plop out the money for that amount. luck to ya & have a good'en, bubba.

[54bore]

I looked it over again a little bit ago, it has minor and I mean nit picky minor flaws, a few tiny scratches in the stock finish (easy fix) and a few little scratches on the barrel, overall it looks really really good, I took a cheap bore light with me and shined down the barrel best I could and can't see anything wrong with it, Im confident the gun will clean up like new/near new, He offered it to me for 250 out the door, i told him to hang on to it and I'd be back to get it, he closes early today so I called him and gonna pick it up Monday morning

[BPJONES]

Well, I think you did pretty well at $250.00. Over time, that s not much of an investment.

[Beagle333]

250 out the door..... much better. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/images/smilies/new/tee.gif Enjoy! That'll be a fun one!

[mooman76]

I looked it over again a little bit ago, it has minor and I mean nit picky minor flaws, a few tiny scratches in the stock finish (easy fix) and a few little scratches on the barrel, overall it looks really really good, I took a cheap bore light with me and shined down the barrel best I could and can't see anything wrong with it, Im confident the gun will clean up like new/near new, He offered it to me for 250 out the door, i told him to hang on to it and I'd be back to get it, he closes early today so I called him and gonna pick it up Monday morning

The dings just give it character.

[54bore]

I'll throw a picture of it up on here when I get it home and cleaned up, I'm excited to get it! I really like this new englander my dad gave me, but that renegade feels even better to me, I think I will really like the set trigger

[bubba.50]

get it tuned up right & you'll wonder how you ever shot a gun without set triggers [smilie=w:.

[mooman76]

You can't even find used ones here. No body messes with them and if by some stroke of odd luck you did find one, it wouldn't be cheap, I assure you. Used to be a couple stores but they don't deal with cheap guns period.

[scattershot]

Another way to check the bore is to drop a nickel cartridge case in the barrel and shie a light on it. Make sure it's an empty case if you do it in the store, or the counter guy may wet his pants.

[BPJONES]

Dropping a ball bearing down the bore also helps reflect light when you shine a light down the bore.

[mooman76]

I didn't have a nickel case that small for my small guns so I wrapped a brass one in foil.

[OverMax]

Most Renegade I've seen have set triggers. New Englander never had but only one trigger. Sets. Far and away are better once you get use to its operation. Although I own a Renegade or 3. They always felt short stocked on me. Don't need the battering of a 54 on my upper arm due to a Renegade poor fit. Crescent stocked Hawkens models are ever more so battering in 54. So to resolve. I now shoot a T/C 45 Hawken cap & a 50 Hawken flint. Love the 45s P/ball. Groups well at 75 yrds. Good enough for my needs. "Just ask the last deer I shot." (-:

Bore light. Found at Walmart. {Night fishing bobber.} Unscew it and your got your bore light.

[bubba.50]

whether ya shoot heavy loads or not a slip-on recoil pad helps with the short length of pull on Renegades. gives ya about an extra inch which makes them much more comfortable to me.

[OverMax]

Yes that's the usual seen bubba. (slip on's) I'd prefer a 1' add on too. Or better yet 1-1/2" pad. Haven't found anyone around here willing to fit a screw on recoil pad to mine. Lately their all too busy building BIG dollar AR's so told. 54/s & a 58 of mine are all leaning up against the wall. Don't see a change for them anytime soon. Been get'in by so far with that little 45- 15/16ths Hawken I have.

[725]

One of the best ML's ever made.

[LAGS]

I cant put a Renegade together from spare parts for $250.00.
So I say that is a fair price.

[54bore]

I feel good about the price! And like I said the gun is in really good shape. This is a really small town and pawn shops don't do that well around this area, it's kinda like stepping back in time around here, over on the wa coast where I am originally from pawn shops make a killing! I'm confident that the few shops around this area have a hard time paying the light bill at times, the prices are generally really good and it's easy to work with these guys. The ole boy in the shop told me he wasn't sure if he was gonna be able to keep the place open due to business being so poor, he has lived here since 1965, he knows everyone and everyone knows him, it's one of the genuine ma and pa type places. I feel like I got a fair deal on the old gun and I really like the ole boy that owns the shop, I see it as a win win situation

[winelover]

Set triggers are good for one thing....punching paper......not great for hunting, especially if you must wear gloves. First thing I replaced on my LH .54 cal Renegade was the double trigger. Muzzle loading season in Michigan was the middle of December. Burrrrrrrr..........

Winelover

[LAGS]

If you have a Double Set Trigger, You don't have to use it in the SET mode.
I work the trigger so it fires on the front trigger just fine, for like you said, Hunting with a glove.
But you always have that Set trigger, for that Just In Case time, where you get that shot, and you can take the glove off for that shot.
I would rather have that option and not use it, then need it and not have it.

[54bore]

If you have a Double Set Trigger, You don't have to use it in the SET mode.
I work the trigger so it fires on the front trigger just fine, for like you said, Hunting with a glove.
But you always have that Set trigger, for that Just In Case time, where you get that shot, and you can take the glove off for that shot.
I would rather have that option and not use it, then need it and not have it.

This is exactly my thought on the set trigger, I will likely not use it in a hunting situation, but then again I might? I need to play with it and go from there since I have no experience to speak of with set triggers, I have no doubt I will use it exclusively when target shooting

[OverMax]

I can't remember a time hunting when not using my Sets. And too. In the heat of the moment I've always had enough time to remove my mitt or mitts so's to accommodate my Set triggers.
Got a couple White Mountains here with single bow triggers. Both their trigger pulls suck!! is the only way I can describe those two closet queens. As far as purchasing the Renegade. Buy it if you can afford too. It's a fair asking price for a decent walnut stocked rifle.

[LAGS]

Single trigger or Double set triggers on a ML are not too hard to rework yourself and make them a whole lot better.

[Beagle333]

I think a lot of it is what you learn on. My first one was double and I love em. You'll probably love this one too. :D

[idahoron]

I found the TC Hawken but plate to be the most miserable thing invented. I had a local gun smith cut mine off and put a limb saver. That rifle shoots 100X better because it isn't punishing me with every shot. BTW I use my set trigger every time even hunting.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/HawkenwithRecoilpad3.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/HawkenwithRecoilpad1.jpg

[LAGS]

Nice Pad.
But how easy is it to shoulder.
I think the line of the Buttpad should be a little closer to 90 degrees to the line of the Bore, and not 90 degrees to the Line of the Comb of the stock.
The rifle looks to have one heck of a Pitch and would have a tendency to shoot Low if you dont take your time to bring it to your shoulder carefully.
But if it fits you, and your style of shooting, that is all that matters. No harm, No foul.
But on a shotgun it might make a difference, and be No Fowl.

[idahoron]

Nice Pad.
But how easy is it to shoulder.
I think the line of the Buttpad should be a little closer to 90 degrees to the line of the Bore, and not 90 degrees to the Line of the Comb of the stock.
The rifle looks to have one heck of a Pitch and would have a tendency to shoot Low if you dont take your time to bring it to your shoulder carefully.
But if it fits you, and your style of shooting, that is all that matters. No harm, No foul.
But on a shotgun it might make a difference, and be No Fowl.

It is easier to shoulder than the old crescent moon plate. With this rifle you can close your eyes shoulder the gun open your eye and the sights are perfectly lined. When shouldering the gun for the shot it is as close to perfect as I can get. I think what you are seeing is the gun is slightly rolled over. Notice there is a pen in the trigger guard that is keeping it from laying flat on the cement.
You need to remember that this is not a quail gun. It has sights on it and they are set out to 300 yards. I don't jump shoot ducks with it. ;-)

[LAGS]

You may be right about the angle being rolled over.
But if you run a line level with the top of the forend, then the buttplate or recoil pad on a rifle should be 90 degrees to that line.
But the length of your arms, and the length of your neck , plus if you hunt with a jacket on all play into stock fit.
But there are Variables, and if it fits you, then the Standards are out the window.
I build Costom Stocks for people, so I start with the Standards.
Now, Jump shooting Ducks with that rifle ? what is wrong with that ? Give it a go sometime.
I once shot 5 out of 35 clay Pigeons with a 50 cal Mowrey ML thrown from a hand thrower, using a lead ball and not Shot.
Never was able to duplicate that feat, but it sure is fun trying to.

[54bore]

Idahoron, that is a darn sharp looking rifle you have there! What kind of peep do you have on the tang? Did you change the front sight as well? I would like to duplicate that setup on this renegade

[54bore]

159750159751

[54bore]

There it be, I'm a happy camper! I stripped it down, gave it a good cleaning, and good thorough light oiling. It cleaned up like I figured it would, Im fairly confident this thing has seen very little use, I can't find anything wrong with it? I scrubbed the barrel out with warm soapy water, I pour straight dawn dish soap on a bore brush and run it back n forth 10 to 15 strokes then soap up a patch and run that back n forth a couple times, i repeat this procedure til it's clean, i didn't get any nasty rust or feel any rough spots anywhere, I think she's good to go!

[bubba.50]

nice lookin' Renegade. with a little care it will serve you well for this lifetime & whoever ya leave it to the next lifetime.

[Beagle333]

Renegades are neat rifles. I'm just starting my collection. I only have three of em so far. :oops:

[idahoron]

Idahoron, that is a darn sharp looking rifle you have there! What kind of peep do you have on the tang? Did you change the front sight as well? I would like to duplicate that setup on this renegade

All my guns have the Lyman 57 SML peep and the Lyman 17AML globe sight with the lee shavers BPCR inserts.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Guard11_zpse0894f9c.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Flatlander2.jpg

[LAGS]

@ Idahoron
Those are some nice looking rifles.
Also, the picture depicts what I had mentioned in an earlier post, about recoil pads.
If you take a piece of paper with a square corner, and lay it over the pictures you posted.
You will see the Front line of the recoil pad is almost a perfect 90 degree to the center line of the barrel or top of the forestock.
But if you line the top edge of the paper with the line of the stock Comb, the line of the front of the buttplate or recoil pad are not square.
The pictures with the Slip on pads can not be used for that comparrison, because you have only the Back of the pad to compare.
The back of the pad varies on either stock mounted pads, or slip on pads.
Plus the slip on pads pick up the rear angle of the buttplate it slips over.
With those, you can only judge them by the final Pitch of the stock, which is seldom 90 degrees, More pitch on shotguns than rifles.
Most stock standards for rifles is, the Stock is cut 90 degrees to the center line of the barrel bore, and the rear angle of the Pad or Buttplate makes the Pitch.

[idahoron]

I am not sure what you want me to do? Do you want me to tell you that my gun shoots like **** because you say that the pad is wrong? I can't do that. Do you want me to tell you my gun shoots low? I can't do that because my gun hits where I aim for from 50 yards to 300. I don't know where you are going with your judgment of my recoil pad.
My rifle shoulders perfectly. When I shoulder it with my eyes closed and open them the sights are lines perfectly. I shoot it accurately out too 300 yards, here is a video.

https://youtu.be/ibU-5uCuy_I


Here is what I will do I will post pictures. Well because they are worth a 1000 words.


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBS11mmgroup2.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBSgroupCleanbetweenshots.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/316grMinie100yardsinfoadded.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/2013%20deer%20hunt/Deer11small_zps20b123e5.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Antelope%202015/Antelope%2001_zpswbmbiaew.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/2015%20deer%20hunt/2015%20deer%20hunt%2005_zpstzoitxmj.jpg

[idahoron]

Now, Jump shooting Ducks with that rifle ? what is wrong with that ? Give it a go sometime.



Shooting waterfowl and most upland game is illegal with a rifle.

[bubba.50]

as the sayin' goes, "the proof is in the pudding". I certainly wouldn't change a thing about those guns Ron.

[54bore]

Awesome video Ron, very informative!! Those hunting and target pics speak LOUDLY on your knowledge of making a muzzleloader shoot!! I really want to set this new renegade up with that same peep and front sight system you have. Also the windex with ammonia for between shots is the way I will be going, thanks for the pics and video link!

[54bore]

as the sayin' goes, "the proof is in the pudding". I certainly wouldn't change a thing about those guns Ron.

Exactly! It wouldn't matter if his recoil pads were cut upside down and installed backwards, his rifles are obviously set up well and shoot extremely good for him! One would be fooling himself to think that Ron doesn't know his ****

[LAGS]

I was merely making an observation and maybe give a little information to others.
I see a lot of guns that have had a recoil pad added to them, and they are not always installed properly.
Not to say, yours are not set to fit you perfectly.
But someone else reading this thread, may see the pad on your rifle like the Hawken, and just decide to cut off the stock square with the top of the comb, and screw on a pad.
I would hope that others are more willing to listen to how things are done, and not end up with their rifle or shotgun improperly fit.
Yours, from what you say, fit you fine.
But you had the pictures posted, and that was the only examples shown to help with my explanation.
I was not saying yours were wrong in any way shape or form.
But others, just see the pad, and want one too, but have no idea the importance of the guidelines we use to install a pad.
I would hope that others are here to learn, and share critical information.
And if you remember, the first thing I asked was how it came up to your shoulder.
I am sorry if you take offense when someone tries to teach others.

[idahoron]

And if you remember, the first thing I asked was how it came up to your shoulder.

I am sorry if you take offense when someone tries to teach others.

If you remember I also said that it fitted me and my shooting style perfect. I said when I shoulder the gun with closed eyes and open them my eyes were centered in the sight.
Then you went on to lecture me on how that was wrong. Then you post "I am sorry if you take offense when someone tries to teach others" what you were doing is using me as a whipping post without any knowledge of me or my rifle. Then you give an apology that you were sorry if I was offended. Really????

Did you watch my video when the gun goes off? It hardly moves on the recoil. that was a 409 gr bullet moving out at 1421 feet per second. The gun has a fair bit of recoil but, between the shape of the recoil pad and how it fits me and the recoil pad it's self the gun hardly moves. That is at minute 19:14 on the video the muzzle lifts a pinch and then you hear the clang of a target being hit at 300 yards.

I understand you are a gun smith but that does not make you the guy to tell me my rifle is incorrect for me because of a picture.
Now I have to ask, with the evidence I have provided why would someone take your word, that your way is the best?
You say my gun should not shoot well. That is an offensive statement that I have proven wrong, and you wonder why I take offence? Really?? I do wish you the best, but I won't be sending my Hawken to you for adjustment. I hope you don't take offence to that.

I guess I should also show my hammer. It too does not conform to the ways that a gunsmith thought they should look.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/hammer03.jpg

[LAGS]

This has gone way off track.
And I never said it Shouldn't Fit YOU. I asked if it Did Fit you, and pointed out that that style MIGHT NOT fit others as well.
And as for the Hammer, I made several very similar to that one over the years.
And furthermore, I would never want to Change someones rifle if it Works For Them, even if it doesn't meet the standard criteria that Most Stock makers use as a Starting point.

[idahoron]

I will agree with one thing you have taken this way off track.

[johnson1942]

idahoron, can you believe guys like this, where do they come from? reminds me of a bible verse. they see a speck in someones eye and have a plank in their own. just wanted to tell you ron, a fellow paperpatch shooter who doesnt belong to castboolits. talks to me on a regular bases by phone. he is winning a lot of 500 yard matches back east. he has memorized every word you ever wrote on the subject and i mean he can quote anything you wrote from memory. he likes to get my input also. hope that cheers you up. dont let these anal guys get you down.i have a slip on lace up pad on my hotrod renagade and love the way it feels. goes right to my eye when at the shoulder. drives tacks at any range. so easy to shoot and load and is so accurate its a boreing gun. keep up your good work ron, you reach shooters you dont even know about. never thought about it but i also have a hot rod hawken in 1/28 50 cal twist. 36 inch barrel shoots a pp 535 grain bullet. drives tacks. kroger shot both my hot rods when he hunted here in dec. we really had fun. he claims and i accept it the mule deer here and most likely where you are also have the best flavor of any deer he ate. must be the high country air. keep it coming ron, read every thing you post, johnson 1942

[dondiego]

Someone seems to be pretty thin skinned. I didn't see one negative comment in LAGS posts.

[johnson1942]

not thinned skinned, just standing by a good man with perfect intentions and a friend to us all. if you attack ron, you attack those of us who have grown to know him and be his friend.

[dondiego]

What I was saying was that I did not see and attack by LAGS. I saw an attack by Ron, and I have seen him attack others here.

[johnson1942]

maybe he just knows what he is talking about, possible, isnt it. i stand by ron, end of story. ya but, is getting way to common on the internet. ya butter,s are really tiresome. show me his attacks, ive never seen them. he is a busy man with a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas, doesnt have time to argue. their are a couple of other guys with a lot of knowledge on here who doesnt tolerate guys who run just to hear them self speak. bead man is one of them and he has my greatest respect. he has the talent, knowledge and hard to match by anyone of them. ya but nay sayers again are tiresome. thin shinned, i accept that 100 persent. getting close to 80 years old and still looking out of my eyes, maybe i like being thin skinned.

[dondiego]

I wasn't referring to you as being thin skinned. I was talking to Ron.

[johnson1942]

i accept it for me, ron, dont change a thing. you have made alot of shooters and hunters happy. keep it up. when a man and his brother memorized every word you said and could quote you word for word and get all the ribbons for the 500 yard shoots, must be something in what you say. what other shooters should learn as the one who posted about butt plate angle, did you ever listen to how you speak, if you dont want to offend, write your point in a way that is diplomatic, adding to knowledge and another point of view. no one likes to slapped in the face or spoke to rudely when not deserved. i react to rudeness with reality orientation and a brickwall. lets keep this wonderful site about shareing information and not inserting opinions with a slap in the face with it. i really think any one should post here as if they are with the boys at the gas station in the morning to start the day socially. who would talk their as they do sometimes here. bent noses would be the result. had to shut a guy in wall mart like that the other day. in a very long line he took it upon him self to hold us all hostage and start ******** at all of us about all his troubles. when i got done with him he couldnt even talk or look at anyone and i got a big round a hand clapping. didnt even use one cuss word, where are these people coming from, seem to be every where. is it the election year?

[54bore]

What about this ole pawn shop renegade? LOL

[bubba.50]

it's a fine gun & I predict you'll be happy with it for the rest of your life & whoever you leave it to will enjoy it for their lifetime. in short & in my opinion, Renegades are awesome! let us know how things shake out when ya get to shootin' it.

[54bore]

it's a fine gun & I predict you'll be happy with it for the rest of your life & whoever you leave it to will enjoy it for their lifetime. in short & in my opinion, Renegades are awesome! let us know how things shake out when ya get to shootin' it.

I'll for sure do it bubba.50, I'm chompin at the bit wanting to get out with it! Been nothin but snow, rain, and cold around these parts, that takes quite a bit of the fun out of it. I've cut timber and logged all my life so I'm not sceered of a wet a** but I think I'll wait this crud out for awhile, spring is just around the corner now, I got that 12 gauge barrel for my new englander the other day as well and can't wait to get out and pattern shoot it and just plain enjoy it! I heard a turkey gobble the other day, even them critters are boogered up from this hit and miss weather. If you read this Ron, what's it been like there at sugar cube?

[idahoron]

Wet! I can't seem to find a time to get out. When the weather gets better I need to work on my son's new sights.

[koger]

I am a Renegadaholic! I have 6, some with custom barrels. Using the .54 Maxi Hunter, 105 grains of 2ffg black, with a fiber wad underneath, yours should shoot great. I had a .54 Hawken barrel, 1" on a Renegade for years, glass bedded and with this load, accounted for over 40 deer, from 40 to 150yds, most went about 26", straight down!! As for all the banter about recoil pads, etc, the way the owner fixes his rifle, to get the performance he wants, and is satisfied is what matters! I know one more thing, Ron and Roger Johnson, are two of the nicest folks you will ever come in contact with. Both have helped me, a rank stranger immeasurably, with no alternative motive. When you know how well a practice that you use works in shooting/hunting, has been demonstrated over and over again and again by yourself, and others you have helped, you can easily get offended when someone with too much time on their hands, decides to stir ****! I see stuff all the time, on this and other forums, that is not my cup of tea, but who I am I to second guess someone else, their issues, reasons etc. AS the old saying goes, if you aint got nothing good to say, be quiet!

[Harleysboss]

54bore, Seems like you've been really lucking out as of late on nice clean muzzy's. A shotgun barrel for sure:) I too have drank the idahoron cool aid :) Mine is a "Hot Rod" Deer Stalker with the GM LRH 50 barrel shooting paper patched. Going all in with my new lee 500 s&w mold and Lyman casting kit. Gonna try pouring my own. Any how Nice Renegade. Now get out and shoot.

[54bore]

54bore, Seems like you've been really lucking out as of late on nice clean muzzy's. A shotgun barrel for sure:) I too have drank the idahoron cool aid :) Mine is a "Hot Rod" Deer Stalker with the GM LRH 50 barrel shooting paper patched. Going all in with my new lee 500 s&w mold and Lyman casting kit. Gonna try pouring my own. Any how Nice Renegade. Now get out and shoot.

I couldn't agree more, I feel very fortunate! The shotgun barrel I got from you is the RARE BIRD!