Modifying a Lyman 45/450/4500 for sizing PC bullets

[Walter Laich]

I love PC but one of the less likeable tasks is sizing them. I feel the Lee push through size dies to be the best but I have problems with raising my left arm even slightly up to put the bullet on the ram. After a few hundred I'm done for the day. Two rotator cuff surgeries on the same shoulder will do that to you.

You can mount a press upside down and use the Lee push throughs but no press or room for this operation; price is good, though. Would be a cheap way to go.

The Lyman 45 series requires you place the bullet, work the handle down and up and remove the bullet and repeat. The extra operation of taking the bullet off adds more work. Good news is I have one.

The Star Lube-Sizer has probably the best action of place bullet, work handle and repeat; simplicity of movement. Stars are also way out of my beer budget.

Cigarman454 has developed a elbow that you place under a 'gutted' 450 that allows it to work much like the Star and at 5% of a Star's cost. He is still developing it for the longer rifle bullets but it works with pistol length ones and since that's all I shoot is CAS I ordered one. All my current sizing dies will work without any perminent modification. I can return it to the original set up any time I want.

Pictures will be coming as well as a description of what is taking place. I have already gotten the 450 into the proper configuration and it works like a champ; bullets end up on the floor so time for USPS to deliver the elbow and I can finish this off.

More to come...

[Walter Laich]

Let's start with some shots of the Lyman configured for Cigarman454's chute

Here is an overall view of the machine. Notice I have an aftermarket lube pressure screw. No lube is needed but there is no need to remove it
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The orange zip ties are there for warm lubing and again they don't get in the way

[Walter Laich]

a close up of where the "U" shaped Bullet Knockout Link attaches to the machine. I replaced the longer screw that came with the machine with a shorter one so the handle doesn't 'rack' side to side.

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[Walter Laich]

Here you can see down the H&I die. Actually the "I" ejector pin (center rod) have been removed from bottom to top.

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[Walter Laich]

Adjusting screw on bottom has been removed--I had to warm it with a torch to make it easier to unscrew. The chute will use this hole for attachment purposes

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[Walter Laich]

The last item is to replace the top punch with a 1/4" bolt shoulder. Mine is squared off as the bullets bases will be face up in the H&I die.
the 1/4" bolt on top, the new top punch, about 1 1/2" long, an .357 top punch
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hard as it is to see there is a 358242 bullet base up with the new top punch in place
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top punch making contact with bullet base
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punch all the way down
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[rancher1913]

I've been working with cigarman454 on the device he's developing and it does work. the larger the boolit the better it works, I've been trying to check and size 25 caliber rifle boolits and am having problems but we have an idea for a simple fix that should arrive here Saturday. any boolit larger than the top punch used to size it works fine and you can get the same production as a lee. nose first works just like the lee but we are trying to do base first so you can add a check as you size which would give this system a real leg up on the lee

[Walter Laich]

Rancher,
hope you get the kinks worked out.

since CAS doesn't allow gas checks on the main match rifle or pistol bullets this wasn't a 'need' for me.

I did a couple making these pictures and it is so easy now. Keep a handful in my left hand and operate the handle with my right. Never have to let go of the handle and I can manipulate the bullets in my left hand without help.

Only problem might be going too fast and ending up with a new hole in one of my fingers.

[Walter Laich]

last thing I made was a section of 1/4" bolt to push out the last bullets at the end of the casting session. Now just waiting for the chute

[RP]

I like to see the chute I gutted my 4500 and made me a punch out of some brass stock and placed a plastic tub mounted to the side of bench cupping the bottom of the sizer. As the bullets pass threw the die they fall onto the part of the 4500 which held the stop adjustment bracket. Problem came in when some of the bullets did not fall off the bracket and another bullet landing on top binding it up and ruining two bullets. I fixed this by placing some foam to deflect the bullets. Well be waiting for the pics of the chute and good thinking on the bolt.

[Walter Laich]

A couple of pictures of the chute and attachment bolt
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Mounted on the machine, the top of the chute touches the machine
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here is a piece of tubing in to better show how the chutes looks
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[Walter Laich]

Here is the drop tube attached; takes 1" ID
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I slit a short section to go over the top of the chute--some of the sized bullets jumped out when they came out of the sizing die
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Here you can see it placed over the opening
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All of it works great and is the fastest way I ever use to size bullets

[RP]

I got to make one of those now thanks for sharing

[Walter Laich]

Cigarman454 sells them if you're interested. For me it was a much better deal. Everything is professionally cut, sanded(?) and welded together. It all fits without any trial and error.

I will say that I ran though 200 sizings in no time flat.

this is the icing on the cake with PC

[RP]

Thanks for the info but I have to make my own to justify the welder grinder and other toys I had to have in the shop may even PC the chute lol. Been casting up a pile of boolits for my 30/30 and 454
I need to GC and PC then off to the sizer so I need to get busy on the chute.

[Walter Laich]

understand about using equipment you have to do the job.

Hope you have success and everything goes as well as it did for me.

Holler if you need any info

[w5pv]

Walter,I to had rotator cuff sugery and the best thing that helped me was to use a gallon bucket with a bail and a lid.Start with an empty bucket and go round and round with the bucket until you are comfortable with the empty bucket and then add an amount of water in the bucket in the bucke until you have a full amount of water in the bucket.This is what my therpist had me to do.It took a while but worked in the end.I now have full use of my of my arm.I hope if you do this that it will also help you.

[Walter Laich]

w5pv:

I'm assuming you mean swing it around over your head?

[cigarman454]

Great idea Walter with the plastic tube slipped over the slot in the chute for pistol bullets. When you do rifle bullets you can just slip it off.
Here's a video Vann made using some big rifle bullets and gas checks.
https://youtu.be/sdDzFfzgPDY

[Walter Laich]

Love the way folks work together on an idea and end up with a great solution in the end. Not saying this can't be improved on but it's pretty exceptional right now

[Walter Laich]

follow up:

found that if a bullet stops right at the top of the chute the next one down will jam. Sounds like a 'no biggie' until you realize the bullet in the H die is getting swaged into the holes of that die. Turns out you have to take the die out and clear the lead from the holes. Not a big job but it is required to get the operation back on track.

Other than that learning experience I'm enjoying sizing and watching the bullets take a trip down the tube to the catch box.

[Vann]

I've been using mine with no problems, you just gotta keep an eye out for an occasional pileup. So far I've run about 2,000 200 grain 45's through it. It's nice not having to dump the cup with larger boolits like you do when using a Lee push through.

[rancher1913]

I had a similar problem when using 25 cal rifle boolits, they would come out with the nose flattened. a longer top punch solved the problem, now they push almost through with each stoke and no more distortions. hopefully I can get some photos uploaded this week as I'm back in the land of the living.

[1845greyhounds]

How do you keep the die's lube holes from scraping the coating off the boolit? When I tried something like this with Hi-TEK coated boolits, the lube hole grooves scraped the coating off.. .

[rancher1913]

the powder coat is not lube, it is part of the boolit when done properly and does not wipe off. a few may have some scrape off when going thru the die if the boolit was out of round at the start. I discard a few each batch that are not 100 percent but so do the big guys, its quality control of the end product.

[Vann]

Yeah, I haven't had a problem with the PC being scraped off. Some times I'll have a rough spot on the boolit from to much PC but it usually just smooths it out and makes the sides look like they where polished.

[donhuff]

How do you keep the die's lube holes from scraping the coating off the boolit? When I tried something like this with Hi-TEK coated boolits, the lube hole grooves scraped the coating off.. .



greyhounds,

I too had that problem when I first started using my 450 as a push through sizer.

It seemed that IF a bullet had a little resistance going through the sizer die. The extra force would tend to compress the nose of SWC style bullets, and this would make the driving band area swell enough that the PC and some lead would get squeezed into the lube holes in the die. This would require even more force to be applied as now you are having to shave off some of the lead. Then if you get one in there like this, and do not have a long enough top punch to get it all the way out the bottom, then put another on top of that one to try and get the first one all the way out. You usually end up with TWO ruined bullets. Granted this happens only to softer bullets and usually only to the larger sizes like 40-45 caliber. And also only to the ones that drop from the mold a little large in the first place.

My first cure was to use some silicone spray on the PCed bullets. This works very well and reduces the force required to go through the die to 1/4 or less than without the silicone. I sometimes use it on non coated bullets too just to make sizing easier, and to keep from compressing my softer bullets. I found that CRC brand silicone worked especially well for this. I buy it at Walmart and most auto parts stores. It just takes a little bit of spray, and you should hold the can at least 12" above the PCed bullets to allow most of the solvent to dissipate, before it lands on the PC. The solvent will usually break down the cured PC and make it gummy, if you don't. I spray a couple of seconds worth, then pick up the corners of the shop rag the bullets are laying on, and roll them back and forth a few times.

If the thought of the silicone on the bullets bothers you, wash it off. It does not bother me so I leave it on. I have seen no effect what so ever from it being there other than the PCed bullets are super slippery and I tend to drop one or two when loading them.

Now, since I have a lathe, I make my own sizer dies without lube holes in them, so I never have the shaving hole to deal with. Plus I make the die hole oversized, so that the bullet will drop into the top half so I do not have to hold it in place, and it centers itself, usually I size base up. Then this size tapers into the bottom portion that does the actual sizing. I make these out of regular 12L14 steel and make a brass top punch that is long enough to push the slugs all the way through or at least most of the way. Brass so that they wont hurt the soft steel, but aluminum would also be ok. The punches are flat faced and full diameter of the hole in the die. And I still use the silicone with these dies too. It just makes the process so much easier.

[gunoil]

I love PC but one of the less likeable tasks is sizing them. I feel the Lee push through size dies to be the best but I have problems with raising my left arm even slightly up to put the bullet on the ram. After a few hundred I'm done for the day. Two rotator cuff surgeries on the same shoulder will do that to you.

You can mount a press upside down and use the Lee push throughs but no press or room for this operation; price is good, though. Would be a cheap way to go.

The Lyman 45 series requires you place the bullet, work the handle down and up and remove the bullet and repeat. The extra operation of taking the bullet off adds more work. Good news is I have one.

The Star Lube-Sizer has probably the best action of place bullet, work handle and repeat; simplicity of movement. Stars are also way out of my beer budget.

Cigarman454 has developed a elbow that you place under a 'gutted' 450 that allows it to work much like the Star and at 5% of a Star's cost. He is still developing it for the longer rifle bullets but it works with pistol length ones and since that's all I shoot is CAS I ordered one. All my current sizing dies will work without any perminent modification. I can return it to the original set up any time I want.

Pictures will be coming as well as a description of what is taking place. I have already gotten the 450 into the proper configuration and it works like a champ; bullets end up on the floor so time for USPS to deliver the elbow and I can finish this off.

More to come...
----------------------
set down low on stool and put lever on hanging down. Only 53$ (1ton @ harborfreight) arbor press. I taped the hole in base center and put a lee 5 hole die plate there. Many dies on a lee carosel, just spin around.


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/putt2012/media/94937606-2804-4906-AFE5-58D552B4FF26_zpsxxapnf72.jpg.html)

[donhuff]

gunoil,

I like your set up and "press".

I just use a small piece of aluminum plate stuck to the 450 with some bullet lube (uck) as a deflector, this "shoots" them over and into a small cardboard box.

161097

[Walter Laich]

Like all the different ways to do pretty much the same thing.

As to the nose mangling: I also made my top die (actually a piece of 1/4" bolt shoulder--no threads) longer so the bullet just about clears the die. Then just a light, short push on the next one sends it on its merry way.

I've done 1500 .45 Colt bullets and can get away with the 1/4" rod in fine fashion. Even though it's way smaller than the base of the bullet it doesn't deform it. Of course it works with .38 Sp bullets, too

[Walter Laich]

follow up on time

I switched back to .38 Sp; some 92 gr pills for the wife.

Just for fun I timed how long it took to size them with this new set up.

1 minute results in 23-24 bullets sized. The bullets are even with the top of the die and a quick working of the handle sends them on their merry way.
I had a few hiccups during this timing so feel I could keep that pace for a goodly length of time

I did size 325 of them in less than 20 minutes and am right pleased with that.

[RP]

I made me a chute with a longer tube I turn the chute to the side and set a coffee can to catch the bullets. Oh PCed the chute too lol great thinking works better then my defector I had and tray mounted right under the sizer.