your skill with your edc pistol.

[nagantguy]

Maybe we should have a cpl/ccw defensive shooting section, we don't so I'll put this here. Mods please feel free to move to appropriate section,thank you.

How good are we with our everyday carry guns? I'd wager much better than average for most of us. I've mentioned before that I am an associate instructor at a local place that teaches cpl classes, very basic pistol and firearms saftey, advanced and very advanced combat pistol classes. I am lucky and get to shoot and see shooting done several times a day. The owner of the school has the resume, and is friends with and trained by such names as Dave Grossmen, Dave Suarez, Joe Teti and so on. He pushes his associates to excel in the craft. He's no nonsense and does not teach nor endorse tacti-cool. I've always fancied my self an above average pistol shooter, he has taught me that I didn't know squat, not by belittling and demeaning but by saying do this, do it like this, why do you do it this way, that's really good show me and tell me how you did it. I've worked long and hard and pushed myself, to become smoother, faster on the draw from concealment, moving off the X, shooting off handed (we don't have a weak hand just an untrained one) shooting from sitting laying, shooting under stress of time and noise shooting weapons I don't like or didn't know. Shooting when I'm out of breath, rounds on the heavy bag, run to the line draw, fire ect.
Today I tested myself; drawing from concealment and firing one handed from a ready position, think Bill Jordan on the cover of no second place winner. At 7 yards fifty rounds, then 50 rounds off hand draw fire, than strong side draw fire once from one handed ready,complete the presentation and fire two handed to the head of a silhouette target. So 150 rounds total, with mag changes as needed. Only 3 rounds were off the scoring rings, most were in the upper thoracic cavity and head with a few down in the gut groin area. None of the two handed head shots missed (25) average time to draw and fire one instinctive round without use of sights and hit was around or just over one second, not every shot was timed. I don't plan to get in a gun fight, don't fancy myself a gun slinger,but I know I can put metal on meat quickly and accurately from either hand, squaring my body to the threat,staring where in intend to hit and smoothly manipulating the trigger. These were full house, 235 grain pcd boolits that I've loaded to hit to the same point of impact as my duty ammo, speer 230 grain gold dots. The three misses, just outside the reduced silhouette scoring area could well mean collateral damage and transferred intent charges in court ,I'll continue to work on that. Ideally we would have time to draw get a good two handed grip, aquire a good sight picture and smoothly press the trigger, don't know how realistic that is against an attacker who has planned and initiated the attack. The name of the game is putting metal on meat, stopping the attack and walking away alive. I'm wearing my flame retardant suit so have it......

[nagantguy]

My edc is an officer sized 1911, a kimber ultra carry 2. Stainless with chip McCormick slim grips.

[Fishman]

Interesting topic and I look forward to reading the replies. I'd wager most are like me, we wish we were better but life gets in the way of practice, and real masters of the craft aren't on every corner.

[nagantguy]

Funny you should say that "not on every corner" this guy and his school has been in the town I grew up in for 20 years and is about 9 miles from my little farm. I don't know how we never hooked up before we did, it was right there and I never heard of it, he does not advertise it's all word of mouth, but we know many of the same people, his wife's best friend is my mother's old boss, a plumber friend who just passed was friends with him and my dad! As soon as we did meet, my wife was taking a class of his she found through NRA refuse to be a victim, we hit it off and he's like the older brother I never had. A true mentor and a great friend with a gift for teaching, I've seen him help people with sever handicaps and language barriers walk out the door with the basis of a skill set and confidence and the makings of being a sheepdog.

[DougGuy]

My edc is a Kahr CW45 and I practice with it offhand, lefthand, and both hands, both using the sights and holding it at elbow level and using only peripheal vision to sight with, keeping eyes locked on target.

[jmorris]

Strong hand, both hands and weak hand, with reloads (note one weak hand reload) on moving targets.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/mvsa/aug15/th_augg144.mp4 (http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/mvsa/aug15/augg144.mp4)

[rancher1913]

around here the only bad guy I might encounter is a pissed off rattlesnake and I carry snake shot so every time I've needed to draw in self defense the snake lost. back when I was a leo we did a lot of training like you talk about but they also drilled us in protecting our weapon from being taken and used against us.

[apen]

I'm not much of an "operator". I shoot rapid fire with two hands every now and then. I shoot off hand a lot. I shoot a plate rack every now and then. I really don't enjoy tactical style shooting. I guess I would be better than the typical thug though.

[nagantguy]

I'm not much of an "operator". I shoot rapid fire with two hands every now and then. I shoot off hand a lot. I shoot a plate rack every now and then. I really don't enjoy tactical style shooting. I guess I would be better than the typical thug though.

I'm not much of an operator either, at home a coon or skunk or yote is often my most dreaded adversary. A rifle of shotgun is my first choice for home defense, know my fields of fire, no close neighbors ect. I do however for work have to go to, flint detroit surrounding suburbs and Dearbornastan, I've seen a change in Dearborn especially, but I also know a in your face over in 3 second violent encounters can happen at any time, don't ever want it to, plan on being the last man standing when if it does. Also don't think thugs don't train, in 08 when the Saginaw highway GMAIL plant was being torn down I did security there at night, the train tunnels under the buildings were full of spent brass and piles of broken bottles and shot up signs, the plant had only been empty for a few months at this point. And my uncle and cousin were both prison guards and they always told me guys would spend there entire bit practicing down and dirty infighting. The really scarry interesting stories are from the years my uncle spent as a hack for a hospital/prison for the criminally insane, the real deal axe murderers and cannibals.

[Blackwater]

Not really sure how to respond, but for a quick first shot, a K-5 silhouette target is duck soup, and with just a fraction of sighting, the head isn't too difficult out to about 15 yds. with my little Taurus 738 .380. Shot 4 rattleshakes this past year with it, too. No misses so far, even on one smallish one that was near a house with kiddie toys in the yard. It sure won't take a head off like a .45 can, but it killed them, and the kids at the house are safer, now. Mostly, I look for this little gun to mostly be used as a big surprise, hopefully, enough that I'll get in the first shot and make it good. A gun isn't a guarantee you'll live, just a fighting chance - one that I'll always choose.

I've been pleasantly surprised at its accuracy, and very pleased with its very controllable trigger pull. That really helps in placing shots on actual targets, near or far.

[nagantguy]

Blackwater, your the second "gunny" type guy who's told me that the 738 was a big sleeper hit, good trigger and reliable, as I think both of you "know your stuff" I'll have to look into one, my edc gun is standard, never changes, but backup/glove box guns are kind of flavor of the month, find one I like keep it, not so much trade it off, the price of the 738 looks friendly as well. Thanks.

[9.3X62AL]

My EDCs are a SIG P-220/45 ACP or (in the back country) S&W M-686 x 4". I have done very little shooting for the past 18 months, but most of that has involved these 2 sidearms. I am no longer comfortable on this site sharing my training/practice regimen in the public areas, other than to say I take the matter with its proper gravity and emphasis.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sheeesh! More initials to figure out! EDC, EKG, ATF, DHQ, BLM.......etc.! Nagant Guy, it sounds as though you have a guru. Only one comment, and that not one likely to singe your fireproof suit....beware of staring at where you want to hit so intently that you fail to see the other threat.

My EDC is what best suits the weather and clothing, but predominately a Star Mod. B 9mm with Gold Dots. :2gunsfiring_v1:

[tazman]

I am not a quick shot. I didn't start this early enough in life to develop that kind of skill. I am more than accurate enough, particularly at ranges less than 20 feet. My idea is to use surprise if available and make sure the shot I get counts. It may be the only one I get.
I practice with all my handguns on a weekly basis. I may not shoot all of them every week but they all get shot often.

[gray wolf]

Draw and fire from the holster in just a little over 1 sec. is very good.
When you get to that point it's a little harder to shave off the tenths.

I shoot a 45 Sig p320 and a 1911 about the same as you and am trying to improve all the time.

Nice work,good post.

[FergusonTO35]

My current carry lineup consists of a Glock 26, 42, and S&W 637. I try to practice with at least one of them once a week. I practice shooting with two hands at 20 feet and one handed at 10 feet. The 637 gets alot of double action exercise, it has a great trigger pull for it's size. Planning to add a Ruger LCP sometime soon.

[nagantguy]

Sheeesh! More initials to figure out! EDC, EKG, ATF, DHQ, BLM.......etc.! Nagant Guy, it sounds as though you have a guru. Only one comment, and that not one likely to singe your fireproof suit....beware of staring at where you want to hit so intently that you fail to see the other threat.

My EDC is what best suits the weather and clothing, but predominately a Star Mod. B 9mm with Gold Dots. :2gunsfiring_v1:

Good point, visual and auditory exclusion are very very common in hi intensity situations, should have mentioned part of the training regime is to scan side to side before safety and reholster

[Markbo]

nagant you obviously practice a LOT. Way more than me. But I am very comfortable with my shooting ability. I am sure I will be taken to task, but I do my non class training on the 20 yard line. If I can hit a smaller target (apparent) I figure my ability at 7 will feel super easy. And that is exactly what I find when I then move to 7 after practicing at 20

[Blackwater]

One caveat: When you're practicing your draw, be VERY sure to do it with an unloaded gun, and a mirror helps to see if you can outdraw your reflection. Just be SURE it's unloaded. A video recently circulated of a shooter drawing his pistol from a good concealment holster, and he got his trigger finger in the trigger guard BEFORE the gun had cleared the leather, and shot himself in the side of the knee, it looked like. he definitely shot himself somewhere in that area. It's also common to shoot one's own butt when drawing from the kidney position, too, so BE CAREFUL practicing your draw. Only after it becomes a very smooth, natural feeling and well conditioned action do you load the gun and start practicing, and even then, you do it slower than you practiced. Pain from a gunshot like that lasts an awful long and VERY embarassing time!

One good aid (but it's NOT foolproof!) is to use a holster with a fully covered trigger guard. But training and practicing a LOT is the ONLY way to get good at it. Try to do it with the door closed where your wife can't see you if you don't want to hear some less than complimentary remarks. If you DO, just tell her that you're practicing so you can protect her. Not much she can say back to that! Don't ask how I learned this, OK?

My single actions are the only ones I like to have an exposed trigger, but I have a DA holster that has it, but I practiced with that long enough it's not a big problem ..... so far!

[apen]

One caveat: When you're practicing your draw, be VERY sure to do it with an unloaded gun, and a mirror helps to see if you can outdraw your reflection.

Anybody know what the speed of light is?

[44MAG#1]

The speed of light is common knowledge.

[w5pv]

I don't pratice fast as this old 74 year need to make sure the 1st round is on target,the couple of guys that I have seen that were on the recieving end changed their minds when the red stuff started to run.I know that this isn't always true but it is just what I have witnesed.I have never had

[Mica_Hiebert]

Good point, visual and auditory exclusion are very very common in hi intensity situations, should have mentioned part of the training regime is to scan side to side before safety and reholster You know I've seen this trained over and over and in my opinion is rediculous! Yes check your surroundings not just left right but 365 degrees and don't reholster your gun! I mean definitely get it holstered before the cops get there so you don't get shot but if I just shot a bear with a hand gun the last thing I do is holster my gun until I know it is dead rite there and neutralized. Some street punk should be treated no differently.

[gray wolf]

just shot a bear with a hand gun the last thing I do is holster my gun until I know it is dead rite there and neutralized. Some street punk should be treated no differently.

The street punk might be dead---
but his two friends --one to your right and the one behind you,
may be alive and well and ready to punch your ticket.

The street ain't the woods.

[nagantguy]

Agreed, only reholster when all threats are down and done and the area is secure, whatever the area is, woods street, or your living room at zero dark thirty.

[bgw45]

I carry a 1911 an have little experience with holster work. When I practice I load my pistol with snap caps so I can safely work my speed and increase my efficiency.

[gray wolf]

Here's a timer you can use indoors on your computor, EMPTY GUN ONLY --

Set the par time and see how you do.


http://dryfirepractice.com/the-timer#