Reloading Room Design

[Guardian]

Wife and I recently moved. Good news - I have a spot for a dedicated reloading room. Bad news - It's the unfinished second floor of a barn.

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The previous owners used the barn as a second garage, with storage on the second floor. Anyway, the subfloor is all that's there and it's 19/32 OSB. The 2x8 joists are on 24-in centers. In other words, it won't hold much in its current state. The downstairs is used for woodworking and welding, neither of which I want around my reloading/swaging stuff. Casting will be done downstairs, mostly because I don't want to carry the ingots upstairs.

I'm considering using 5/4 pine deck boards over the OSB, cutting tongue and groove in it to eliminate the rounded edges and gaps. It's relatively cheap and I think it will stand the weight of the benches. Thoughts? Other options?

I'll end up with about 13x23 usable space, with storage under the steeper portions of the gambrel roof. I'm planning to put a door where the window and light are on the front now, so I can put stuff up there with the front end loader. A deck with stairs on the back on the building will give me routine access and allow ammo testing right outside the reloading room.

For benches, I'm planning 12-inch wide down the length of each side and a 30-in wide x 10-ft long island in the center, leaving me 4.25-ft for an aisle on each side and 6.5-ft on each end. Doors on either end will be outswing, but still kill usable space. For bench tops, I was thinking of using 2x4s in a butcher block style, with framing bolted to the wall and/or floor.

What would you change or add? It's killing me that I haven't had my stuff setup for over a year, and I'm anxious to get going again, but his is likely my last move, so I want to do this right.

[Half Dog]

I wouldn't be much help with designing but I would love to see how it turns out. gOOD LUCK.

[AZ Pete]

You might look at the load bearing ability of the joists before you add all of that weight.

[flyingmonkey35]

Jealous sounds nice where you going to put the cot as this will be the dog when you don't leave it for days in end.

[geargnasher]

You're going to love the island setup. Plan on getting a rolly office chair to cruise around in, saves the back and knees from the up and down thing. Narrow benches are quite useful, you seem to have already discovered that the back 2/3 of a 2' loading bench only serves as a catch-all that's too far to reach easily unless you're standing.

2x8 joists are overspanned at 10' on 16" centers, you didn't say what the span was but I would double them (make it 12" centers) and put a layer of BC sanded plywood down just for a smooth surface, unless you have or can easily rent a floor sanding machine to even out the T&G variances or are planning to cover it with low-pile carpet or linoleum. Trust me, don't chinch on having a smooth, crack-free floor. You might also consider some of the cheap composite floor material, seen some at clearing houses for well under a dollar a SF. I prefer low-pile industrial carpet for my work spaces. It gets stained with grease, bullet lube, gun oil, etc, but for ME, it saves my bacon because I have a chronic case of the "dropsies" and would have damaged most of the tools I own by now from dropping them on concrete or having them roll off the bench, but the little bit of carpet even with no underlayment cushions the fall just enough most of the time to prevent dings. Even had a rifle or two fall over and no harm done thanks to carpet. Low pile stuff like you see in schools and office buildings is what I'm talking about, I just got the cheap stuff off the roll at Homeless Despot and layed it myself, putting baseboard and shoe mould around the edges to hold it in place.

You can also add a center support beam and a post or two downstairs to help shore up the floor under your island. Bouncy floors suck, voice of experience. I built a 24x40 gambrel barn, 12' to joists and another 12 from deck to ridge beam. Post and beam down the middle. Ended up turning it into a mansion instead of loft space and the 2x8/12' span/2' centers and 3/4 CDX didn't go so well as living space. I added joists to make 12" and put two rows of staggered blocks at the 4 and 8 foot marks across the spans to further reduce the dice'n'slice movement of the joists when walking on them, it's quite solid now.

I think 2x4s on edge is overkill for reloading bench tops, and you have to figure the weight on the structure too. Just my opinion. All mine are 2-by yellow pine glued and screwed to a very well reinforced glued and screwed 2x4 framework and supported by 4x4 untreated fir legs. Good for everything but swaging, and if I were to build a setup for something like swaging bullets I would build it out of heavy steel and anchor it firmly to a concrete slab because a little bit of flex and rubber feel during a precision hand operation like that just drives me nuts.

A dumbwaiter would be nice too, as would a shooting bench and gun port, but maybe that's beyond the scope of your build.

Shelf space. You can never, ever have enough. Put shelves, or preferably drawers or sliding trays on full extension slides, in every odd space your room allows. Under the benches you can put shallow trays on low rollers right on the floor and slide them back to take advantage of the hard-to-reach space along the gambrel walls without having to get down on your hands and knees with a flashlight to rummage around and drag stuff out.

Gear

[jmort]

"Narrow benches are quite useful"

I have settled on 20" and have an 8'x8'x8' U, i.e. 24 linear feet of loading bench.

[dudel]

Make it as nice as you can. My rule: If you're going to be in the doghouse, you might as well build a nice doghouse.

2x8 joists are fine, I just wonder about the load bearing capacity of 24" centers. Probably ok, and likely some joist website will confirm this. 5/4 pine decking sounds fine.

Since you're using essentially an attic, I'd worry about how hot it would get in the summer. Maybe plan ahead for some insulation or ridge vents and some ventilation. Run power. I like my outlets at workbench level rather than a foot off the floor. Plenty of task lighting.

Congrats on a great space.

[Shawlerbrook]

Sounds like you have a great starting point, but I would definitely add more floor joists. What do you plan to do for heating and cooling ?

[Guardian]

Gear, overkill is highly underrated! I like the idea of doubling the joists. The building is 25-ft square(ish). There is already a beam and posts down the middle of the barn, so at least I don't have to add that.

The 23x13 is the center portion of the attic space. Walls are already studded under the change in roof pitch. I considered doing shed dormers in the sides to give me more accessible space, but that'll have to wait. My plan is to break the bench tops in the area those dormers would go, just in case I decide to do that later.

The floor sander is easy enough to rent from one of the box stores, but I was intending to face screw the boards. That might create a problem. Plywood may be the easier route, I just wasn't sure one layer would give the rigidity I was after, but that was without adding joists.

I'm pretty sure the walls are framed on 24-in centers too. I'll confirm that, though.

The bench on the back deck will be another project down the road, but certainly something I'm trying to leave space for.

Dudel, I'm intending to insulate the whole thing and, at some point, add a wall unit for heating and cooling. No doubt it will get HOT in the summer, but most of my reloading is in the winter due to shorter periods of daylight. Not much I can do outside after work.

Electrical is already partially run, but some additional circuits will be necessary. Currently, the entire upstairs is on one 15A breaker.

All, thanks for the input! Keep it coming.

[labradigger1]

Whatever you do make plenty of bench space. Mine is 30' long x 22" deep and runs around 4 sides of the loading room. I wish I had twice that amount. Once you start your hobby may get out of hand as mine did. 3 shotshell presses on one side, casting, sizing and core cutting on another, 2 progressives and one turret on another and swaging and powder coating on the fourth. It quickly got out of hand for me.

[Guardian]

It's already out of hand. Thus, needing a dedicated reloading room. At the last house, it took up 3/4 of a two car garage. When I loaded all I scaled it. It was over 5k lbs, without much lead and no loaded ammo. I was probably better off not knowing that, since I had to load and unload it.

I'm leaving the casting stuff out of the reloading room, so that will help with space/weight constraints.

[jsizemore]

In NC code called for 2x10's 16" OC for a 12' span for floor joists. 2x8's 12" OC should do the trick. 3/4" T&G plywood screwed and glued over top of the existing 5/8" OSB should give you all the floor decking you'll need and go down fast. I'd increase your studs to 12" OC also.

[lightman]

I would add joist for sure. I believe I would add enough to do 12 inch centers. I also would use plywood for the floor, probably tongue and groove. Screwed or nailed and glued. The 24 inch centers on the walls should be fine unless you plan to load them in some way. I like the idea of having a door on the end large enough to use with your front end loader. All in all I see a nice loading room in all of this!

[Kevin Rohrer]

If you get serious about reloading, your benches will have multiple presses on them, plus books, components, etc. There will be a lot of weight upstairs. I would take a second look at putting everything downstairs. Just store your combustibles (powder and primers) in an old frig or other secure container so you don't mix welding and components.

The reason I suggest this is that I have about 12' of bench. It is FULL of stuff, very heavy, and needs to set on a concrete floor. I don't think a second floor would safely hold the weight.

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[dragonrider]

Adding more joists, maybe, 5/4 pine deck board for floor never, way too much work for the intended purpose. Floor it with 3/4 plywood over the present floor, use screws not nails, fast and solid. Joists can be added later if needed.

[Walla2]

In NC code called for 2x10's 16" OC for a 12' span for floor joists. 2x8's 12" OC should do the trick. 3/4" T&G plywood screwed and glued over top of the existing 5/8" OSB should give you all the floor decking you'll need and go down fast. I'd increase your studs to 12" OC also.

You should put more joists in. Much cheaper than rebuilding the barn after the floor falls through. I picked up 5 used 4 drawer filing cabinets for #25 total. They are fairly strong and hold a lot of important stuff.

[jcren]

Might look at solid core door blanks/slabs for shelves. Pine are usually fairly cheep.(under $50 at local yards)and you can rip a 36" in half for 15' of solid benchtop.

[Guardian]

Well, I spent some time in the barn this weekend and have decided the second floor isn't going to work. I was going off memory in the OP and I should know better by now. To correct two points, the joists are 2x10 on 24-in centers. The center beam is three 2x10s, but the floor joists are nailed to the beam rather than crossed over it. The second incorrect statement was the existing OSB subfloor thickness, which is 7/16.

Anyway, after looking at it closer, there are other framing issues that dissuade me from using the upper floor as a reloading room. The issues could be corrected, but I don't think the time and effort are worth it. I'll just put 3/4 plywood over the existing OSB and use the area as storage for lighter weight, seldom used items. Oh well. I appreciate the suggestions!

The lower portion of that barn will be a nightmare to insulate/seal. It's perfectly suitable for it's current storage use, but converting it is just more than I want to get into.

The alternate plans both involve concrete work and framing. They also won't happen as quickly as I thought the original idea might. I'll update this post as I develop those plans.

[dilly]

That's a bit of a bummer, but I'm still looking forward to seeing what you can make.

[OS OK]

Great and accurate advise all the way through…no doubt…but…If you use a automatic-powder-dispenser you are aware that they just can't tolerate vibrations.
Try to figure a method to suspend a eparate shelf from the ceiling down to the bench area where you imagine using it. I built a 4 ft. round loading bench and put my presses equally spaced around the radius, used a tripod leg assy. and put the presses directly over each leg. Drilled a 2 1/2" hole in the center and came up through with a separate pipe welded to a huge firetruck brake rotor at the bottom and thats so the adjustable shelf for the dispenser or scale can sit and face any of the presses Im using. Perhaps a couple pictures might explain better:

159743159744159745159746

First > adjustable pipe collar w/ thumb screw…can face any press at any height above surface of bench.
Second > separate base for this powder stand…doesn't pick up vibrations from bench.
Third > Pointing towards turret and using the scale to monitor the lyman 55. Will remove scale to use the RCBS auto-throw behind it.
Fourth > An old industrial first aid box below for my die stowage. The rag is hanging from a cup holder screw in 'C' hook, one at each press.

You can see the hole in pic. one where the stand comes through the table…preventing bench vibrations to the scales shelf.
I know you are not using the round bench concept but thats why I mentioned the separate shelf idea so the dispenser or scale is not connected to your bench.
Hope this gives you an idea or two…oh yeah…the top of the center pipe has an 18" tool holder magnet connected vertical and holds calipers, allen wrenches or whatever you use but don't want on the bench. There are separate 1" X 2" magnets placed at the various presses to hang onto anything else, ie. the cartridge checkers I'm using at the moment.

charlie

[David2011]

Guardian,

I bought a house that had an existing 36x36 wood framed metal skinned pole barn. I ended up building rooms with conventional household walls and ceilings inside the existing walls to make my reloading room and gunsmith shop. They're well insulated and very tight. They walls are sheetrocked and textured so it feels like I'm in the house. The reloading room is heated with an electric oil filled radiator heater. The gunsmith shop is getting a small wall mount gas heater soon since I already have natural gas in the shop.

You just about can't have too much insulation, too much lighting or too many electric outlets.

David

[Guardian]

David,

That's one of the alternative options. I've got a 30x40 pole barn that just needs a concrete floor and electricity run to it. The other option is building onto the barn in the OP. I think they'll cost about the same, but the latter is in view of the house and a shorter walk.

[djw]

David,

That's one of the alternative options. I've got a 30x40 pole barn that just needs a concrete floor and electricity run to it. The other option is building onto the barn in the OP. I think they'll cost about the same, but the latter is in view of the house and a shorter walk.

I built my office in my pole barn just as David2011 describes. Depending on your climate, even if you put in a concrete floor, you might not want to leave it bare. I framed a wood floor (just 2x6s) that sets on the concrete and insulated it with 2" foam board between the joists. I then insulated the 2x6 walls and ceiling of the "box" that sits inside my barn with fiberglass batts. The barn has nominal insulation (to keep it from freezing hard), but the office stays toasty with equipment and bodies putting off a little heat, and a small space heater to make up the little bit extra that's needed here for Michigan winters.

[Guardian]

Alright, I'm putting the reloading room in half the bottom section of the barn pictured in the OP. We've moved a bunch of stuff around. The welder is staying in that barn for now, I'll just have to be careful with grinding. Wood working will be outside, I guess. I'm a "must do" carpenter anyway, it's a means to an end.

The space is about the same as previously stated 13x25. I lost a long wall, though. That will allow me multiple islands that may spill into the other half a bit, but as long as I can keep the other doorway open, I'm ok.

I bought a bunch of stuff for electrical today. I'm running two dedicated outlets, each on its own 20A breaker, for the Magma pot and the muffle furnace.

I'm also rewiring the existing outlets to get them off the same circuit as the lights. I'd prefer not to be in the dark if I overload an outlet bank. The existing outlets are on 12/2 wire.

I'm adding about 8 more 15A duplex outlets. All those, and the two dedicated 20A circuits, will be on 10/2 wire. My plan is to have each wall of 15A outlets on its own circuit, further split by new and old. New outlets will all be above the planned bench height.

I'm putting an outlet in for the welder and prewiring for a 230V air compressor with 6/3 wire. Welder only has about a 6-ft run, air compressor is about 25-ft. The air compressor will end up behind the barn in its own shed, so I don't have to listen to it run. Supply line for air will be surface mounted on the wall so it's easy to repair.

I didnt realize how how expensive insulation is! That will likely be the slow part of the project. I'm planning to do R13 on the walls and R30 in the ceiling. All that will get covered with 7/16 OSB. I'm thinking the welding area will get corrugated metal over the lower half of the OSB to keep sparks off the wood.

I love Akro-bins and I'm thinking about getting the louvered sheets to go on the wall above the bench, at least in a segment of the long wall.

If I can get all this done by summer, I'll be doing good. Any suggestions/corrections to the above?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Since you have all that land, why don't you buy a Prefab 12x16 Shed from Lowes or Home Depot or whomever has a big box near you and put that up.

You could go ape and pour a Concrete slab for it or just elevate it off the ground with Pilasters and you'd have a dedicated building that has none of the downsides of the Barn or it's mods.

I bet you could get a first rate set up for less than $4K which is less than you would have spent on the barn's 2nd floor.

Just and Idea to mull over.

If I ever move to a tract house I will be doing this and it will have a Slab with indents formed in for the Pilasters and thus the building will not be permanently affixed to the ground and thus will not require permits.

Randy

[Guardian]

Randy,

Thanks for bringing that up. I've considered the pre-fab building idea. There are several local vendors for such that have nice examples. The biggest holdup on the idea is getting it on the property (there ain't a level spot on this place) in a spot I'd want it (and one the wife approves of). As the wife put it, she is not enamored with the idea.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - one way or another, get electric out here (as has been suggested).
Use it for AC, Dehumidifier
(get the Real Thing to remove water from air and drain it outside,
not a "rod" that just ups the dew point)
and one way or another, get a Heater.
You WILL want the "comforts of home" and your equipment will appreciate it!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guardian: What you would do is put posts into the ground and then shoot the tops in to the same elevation. Then construct the floor on those.

I would also suggest having a False Floor with Foam insulation sealing it completely. That way Varmints couldn't get in.

When you construct the walls they can easily be insulated with the Bubble Wrap style of insulation which with the addition of a small woodstove will make your little shed nice and cozy in the winter. Add a small 110V A/C unit for the summer,,, when needed and you are good to go. I use fans a lot too.

You would run Electricity in PVC Conduit underground using Romex for the wiring. You won't need more than 15 amps for lights and various small tools, tumbler etc.

The only consideration left is where your wife will allow it. I would suggest,,,"out of sight."

Randy

[Messy bear]

Neat ideas OS OK ! I like the pipe for scale shelf to isolate it.
Messy

[daboone]

I have 2 benches dedicated to reloading. One bench just for jobs requiring a drill press, sanding and moto tooling. One bench just for gun cleaning with a good bench vice. And another bench just for odd jobs and gun smithing with a other excellent vice. Outside is a bench just for castings.
Dedicated benches helps me keep organized and focused.

[Guardian]

Spent some time working on the electrical over the weekend.

I got the original lights and outlets downstairs broken into separate circuits.
Had to modify the entrance from the exterior electrical panel into the building. When I removed the OSB interior wall panel there were wasp nests and carpenter bee carcasses within the wall. The electrical panel didn't have a conduit off the back of it into the building and there was a gap between the electrical panel and exterior wall with a 2-in diameter hole cut through the exterior wall for two 12/2 cables.
I added boxes and 12/2 wiring for 6 more ceiling fixtures around the perimeter of the interior. I won't actually connect all of this until I get the ceiling hung.
I added boxes for duplex outlets 48-in off the floor on every other stud (48-in between outlets) on the main wall the benches will be located. Still have to run the 10/2 wire for those.
Added two dedicated 20A duplex outlets in the center of the building for the Magma Master Pot and muffle furnace. Those circuits use 10/3 for the majority of the run with 10/2 split to each duplex outlet from a junction box.
Added a 240V outlet for the welder using 6/3.


Thank God I abandoned the upstairs thought. The up close and personal look at the framing this weekend revealed some items I hadn't seen before. It was all fixable, but would be a major PITA to accomplish.

The board and batten siding has a lot of cracks in it. Most of them aren't big, but enough to see daylight through. It seems like it would take forever to seal those up and nothing says more won't develop, so I'm considering using steel panels over the exterior after removal of the battens. At least then I won't have to paint the exterior in my lifetime.

It's always something......

[grumman581]

If you don't want your dies rusting during the summer, remember to air-condition it.

[Guardian]

If you don't want your dies rusting during the summer, remember to air-condition it.

Yep, got a LONG way to go before I'm chilling in the AC, but I'll be wiring for that when I get to the back. I'm having to move stuff as I work, so I started on the relatively open areas. The west wall (right in the original photo) will be complete with wiring, insulation, and OSB interior before I move to the back wall. The back wall is already covered with OSB, so I've got to take it down for several purposes.

Some of the OSB is nailed, some of it is screwed. Based on the weekend's experience, all that's nailed will be shreds when I get it out.

[Geezer in NH]

Move into house, get rid of wife when she objects. Just my thought.

[Guardian]

Move into house, get rid of wife when she objects. Just my thought.

Wife buys as many guns as I do, has bought a fair amount of our reloading/casting/swaging equipment, is half the reason we have this property in the first place.....getting rid of her would be a pretty boneheaded move on my part.

She's got sisters, but I swear either she or they were adopted.

[grumman581]

She's got sisters, but I swear either she or they were adopted.

I know the feeling... I just tell my wife that there must have been a mix-up at the hospital and someone didn't maintain a proper chain of custody record.

Then again, I also claim that when talking about our daughter... :(

Or as I say when the daughter does something especially stupid, *her* daughter. :(

[j4570]

Having done a few garages, i would run two circuits to each wall. I did that on my long wall in my garage. I alternated circuits every 3 feet. I used ivory receptacles for one and brown for tbe other. That way i know whats plugged in what circuit. The back wall has only 1 circuit. That was a mistake! But it is grey colored. I like color coding them. Add plenty of light. And i used solid core doors for bench tops. See if u can get a damaged one discounted. You might could get junk ones at good will

[djw]

...used solid core doors for bench tops. See if u can get a damaged one discounted. You might could get junk ones at good will

Try the "ReStore", if they have them in your area. Full of building supplies and hardware, cabinets, furniture, donated for Habitat for Humanity.

[Guardian]

djw, Thanks for that tidbit. Turns out there are several around me. Never would have thought to look there.

j4570, That's an excellent point. I have done that, though not intentional. The existing receptacles are on a separate circuit from the new ones. The downside is that all the above bench are on the same circuit and the old ones are below the bench, but it works out since my tumblers will sit on the floor and they are one of the things constantly running. The big consumers of amps (muffle furnace and melting pot) have their own circuits. Again, I really appreciate that input.

Anyone see an issue with putting the AC and the air compressor on the same 60A 240V circuit? My thought is that the likelihood of both running at the same time is pretty low. I could put a sub panel in to lower the amperage rating for the breaker going to the AC unit.

[MikeInOr]

I would highly recommend isolating your case cleaning area from your reloading area. Case cleaning is messy and creates a lot of dust. I am moving my case cleaning down stairs so all my reloading equipment doesn't get covered with the dust.

[grumman581]

Anyone see an issue with putting the AC and the air compressor on the same 60A 240V circuit? My thought is that the likelihood of both running at the same time is pretty low. I could put a sub panel in to lower the amperage rating for the breaker going to the AC unit.

Around here, the AC would be running most of the time during the summer and when the compressor (either AC or air) starts up, there's a greater current draw. As such, I would put them on separate circuits.

[Guardian]

I use a home made tumbler and SS pins for the initial cleaning. Also, my vibratory tumblers have solid lids and I use mineral spirits and car polish in the media. Dust has not been an issue.

I am putting in a utility sink with at least a point of use water heater. Haven't decided between electric and propane yet. That mostly depends on what I decide to do for winter heat.

Had planned to use a wood stove for winter heat, but the double layer chimney will run me about $1500 in parts. I can do propane or electric cheaper in the near term. Long term, not so much. Something to be said for heat that turns on and off immediately, though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mike in OR: If you put the lid on your tumbler you won't have dust everywhere. Mine came off once so I know what you are talking about. I put a lock washer under my Wing Nut to make sure it doesn't come off. I run mine for 24 hours at a whack so it can happen.

Randy

[Guardian]

Got two security lights added....terrible photo, but you get the idea.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164218&d=1458680448

Picked up insulation and 7/16 OSB for the walls this weekend. This is the wall that the reloading benches will be on. Studs are 24-in OC, so there's a section that has a lot of outlets for the length. Again, not a great photo of the first insulation panel installed, but I didn't feel like opening the front doors to get a better photo.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164219&d=1458680458

The OSB panel on the left of the photo has to come down to do insulation. There's another one to the right, just outside the photo. Both are nailed in, so I'll destroy the panels in the removal process. The sink will go to the right, adjacent to the front doors, as it's easy enough to get the water routed into there. It'll just have to come up the outside wall and then penetrate.

I decided to surface mount the propane piping. It was going to be too much trouble to get black iron pipe into the studs, though possible.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Might want to run tubing from the air compressor to the reloading room, and have outlets every six feet or so. I did that at my place in Colorado, maybe 8 outlets in the shop. Made it real nice to not have to drag hose. And, I ran an outlet outside near where we parked to make it easy to air up tires and such. I miss that place.

[Guardian]

Might want to run tubing from the air compressor to the reloading room, and have outlets every six feet or so. I did that at my place in Colorado, maybe 8 outlets in the shop. Made it real nice to not have to drag hose. And, I ran an outlet outside near where we parked to make it easy to air up tires and such. I miss that place.

That is in the plans, but will be surface mounted. I didn't want to have to tear the wall open if there was an air leak. The plan is to put the compressor out back so I don't have to listen to it, but that will be a later venture. I need to pour a pad for it and enclose it (nevermind getting the compressor).

[dale2242]

My loading room is 10'X16'.
I have two 10' benches. One at each end.
You can never have enough bench or shelf space.
I have more floor space than needed....dale

[dudel]

That is in the plans, but will be surface mounted. I didn't want to have to tear the wall open if there was an air leak. The plan is to put the compressor out back so I don't have to listen to it, but that will be a later venture. I need to pour a pad for it and enclose it (nevermind getting the compressor).

How about mounting a hose reel in the ceiling? Remember to put a slope in the air lines (and a ball valve at the end) to be able to drain moisture from the line.

Looks like you are making great progress.

[OS OK]

I had intended to tell you to do a complete make-up of your incoming and out-going romex circuits and 'pigtail' for all your 'devices'…now after seeing the pictures…I think you know what your doing in that arena…it looks as if it will pass inspection without a hitch.
Very nice and neat rope work there…it says everything to me about your other skills.

Keep us posted with pictures…OS OK

[Guardian]

dudel, Thanks for that bit about sloping the lines. Hadn't thought about it, but will be sure to incorporate it. I do plan on installing a reel in the ceiling, but was planning that for the non-reloading bay where it wouldn't be as apt to get hung on presses and such. I could hang one on each isle and then it wouldn't be draped over a bench. Honestly, I haven't used air with the reloading stuff much in the past. I usually prefer to use the vacuum if I'm cleaning.

OS OK, Thanks for the compliments. I need to take photos of all the walls before I close them up just to remember where wires run in the future. Fortunately, wire color is a big help. Orange is 10 gauge new outlets (some 10/2 and some 10/3). White was existing 12/2. Yellow is lighting 12/2. Black is 6/3. Of course, when I need the info, I'll have to find the photos.

[dudel]

dudel, Thanks for that bit about sloping the lines. Hadn't thought about it, but will be sure to incorporate it. I do plan on installing a reel in the ceiling, but was planning that for the non-reloading bay where it wouldn't be as apt to get hung on presses and such. I could hang one on each isle and then it wouldn't be draped over a bench. Honestly, I haven't used air with the reloading stuff much in the past. I usually prefer to use the vacuum if I'm cleaning.

Good point. I use much more vacuum than compressed air in the reloading area. For compressed air, a couple of cans of compressed air for computers are just fine. Also don't have to worry about the moisture content.

Having run lots of compressed air lines, consider using copper instead of PVC. Copper tends to have a cooling effect and will drop the moisture out of the air quicker.

Get a free catalog from TIP (http://www.tptools.com/Air-Line-Hookup.html) Lots of good ideas on plumbing for compressed air. For example orient the "T" fittings with the center up. That way water won't drain into the line.

[Guardian]

dudel, The orientation of fittings in another good point. I'd forgotten that. I've never seen copper run for air lines, but the premise makes sense. Why not just have a dryer between the tank and building? Would that not solve the problem?

I assume we're talking mechanical fittings (flared fittings) as opposed to sweated fittings. No way I'd trust a sweated fitting at an air pressure of 150+ psi.

[dudel]

dudel, The orientation of fittings in another good point. I'd forgotten that. I've never seen copper run for air lines, but the premise makes sense. Why not just have a dryer between the tank and building? Would that not solve the problem?

I assume we're talking mechanical fittings (flared fittings) as opposed to sweated fittings. No way I'd trust a sweated fitting at an air pressure of 150+ psi.

A dryer would help; but even with my dryer, I would still find water at the end of a run. A larger (read $$$) dryer would have undoubtedly done a better job. You want the dryer to do significant cooling to get the vapor out of the air. Copper just helped with the cooling.

I did sweat (solder) the fittings on. No problem at all running 175psi air (though normally it ran at 150psi). Just make sure you get both parts good and clean. Inside/outside wire brush worked for me.

[salpal48]

I started with the Island Concept about 5 Years ago. . This was Modeled after working in The printing Industry all my life. .Island maximize space Leaving wall for supply and Other stuf. . mine are mounted on stell Tables . Mounted to cement floor appox 36" wide x 96 long . . . I have 2 But still running out of space

[OS OK]

Islands allow for dedicated work areas in production that do not require so much cleaning up and storing of equipment…I did not say don't clean the mess. You can run parallel operations too.
You can make a 'type of island' just by adding a 'T' to your existing work bench. Imagine how you 'would like' to do things and go from there.

[Guardian]

The island will definitely happen...eventually. I've got too many operations that I'm trying to cram into a relatively small space to do otherwise. Swaging, in particular, is one of those things you don't want to disturb once you've got it set up. I also like operations in separate areas. If I can't leave something set up on the bench, it's taking up storage space for something else. I get bored doing the same thing for extended periods of time, so multiple stations allows me to switch between things to prevent it becoming a chore.

The T bench idea has me considering short trunks, maybe a foot, off the main wall to have more defined stations. I don't know if that would prove cumbersome, though. I can only imagine how bad I'd cuss myself the first time I catch the corner into my side while moving from one to another.

Here's a general idea:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164495&d=1458938866

The squares represent 6-in and the whole thing is approximate, at best.

[Guardian]

Making some progress on the reloading room.

West wall half done. The yellow thing in the left box is half of this contraption: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blind-Mark-Drywall-Electrical-Box-Locating-Tool-Kit-4-Pieces-BMWK/100529468 I accidentally discovered them, but they save a lot of time. I'm using a rotozip saw to cut the OSB. I've had a few that I trimmed a little too much off of and had to use shims under the outlets to keep them flush with the wall, yet secure. Overall, I highly recommend the kit.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0398.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0398.jpg.html)

Back wall electrical run. The orange cable is 10-2 and the white is 12-2.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0410.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0410.jpg.html)

Framed for PTAC in the back wall. Note the wire connected without a box was a temporary condition so I could run a saw. A junction box was installed later.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0412.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0412.jpg.html)

OSB up on most of the back wall. Note the box high on the wall. That's where the temp splice ended up, intentionally. I'm planning to use that as a spot to plug in audio equipment. The interior of each box has the circuit number written in it with a marker for ID later.
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0456.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0456.jpg.html)

West wall mostly done. Corner on the left is waiting on plumbing to be done. I'm having to work around all this stuff in the foreground. The outlets in the center of the room are on their own circuits
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_0414.jpg

I'm currently working on installing blocking between the ceiling/floor joists, insulating the ceiling, and installing the ceiling OSB. The joists are 2x10s, but actual width varies between 8-3/4 and 9 inches. I guess they just dried out and shrank. I bought 2x10s to use for blocking, attempting to stiffen the floor above, but I'm having to rip them so they don't stick out beyond the joists. I've about decided to just buy 2x8s to use for blocking and avoid the hassle of ripping every 2x10.

[OS OK]

Take the time now to roll a sealer on the chip board, even inside it will dry and start to flake up on the edges, it'll turn an ugly flat color also if not sealed.
I know it's a little late now, but we seal ours front and back with a quick rolling job before we install it.
Sure is nice work you are doing. Something that plagues me is this...right before closing all the walls, I look around and think..."What am I forgetting?"... I always worry about that part, I worry too much too!

[dudel]

Looks great Guardian. I like those little yellow boxes. Gonna have to get a set.

OS, I had the same feeling till I started setting the chipboard/osb/sheetrock with screws. A screw setter keeps the screw from going too deep.

If I need to get back there or I punched a board through the wall, I just unscrew and replace. I could never hit the right spot with the nailer anyways!

[Guardian]

OS OK, I'm intending to do a coat of something on the OSB when I've got it all hung. I've got a Titan 440i airless sprayer, so I'm hoping it will go fairly quickly. I haven't decided on what to apply yet. I've got an 80 grit Osborne brush on a polisher that I plan to use to remove the stamps and other markings on the OSB and to promote adhesion of whatever coating. Part of me wants to stain it. Part of me says just clear it. Another says paint it white. What would you go with and why?

I'm also planning to put 1x4s over the OSB joints, at least the visible ones. Overkill? Yeah, but it just as well be something I like looking at.

Like Dudel said, I'm using screws on the OSB. I've cussed the folks that built the barn in the first place for nailing what OSB was in here before. Most of it got ruined while trying to get it off the wall. I'm using concrete board screws due to the wide head. It's tough getting them flush, but the 1x4s will cover 'em anyway. Might take a little persuasion for the 1x4s to lay flat...but I've got big enough hammers.

Dudel, I've been temporarily hanging the OSB to mark the outlets and then pulling it off to cut the holes. The maker of the tool shows use while the paneling or sheetrock is hung, but I was worried about cutting something I didn't mean to. I've found using a chisel tip marker turned wide works well and if I just barely leave an edge of marker showing the fit is near perfect. It likely depends on the brand and type of boxes one is using, though. I started using PVC boxes and decided I didn't like the flimsiness of them. Everything I've put in since has been fiberglass, except for the two outlets in the center of the room that are in steel.

I KNOW where my tools are.....as long as someone doesn't move them. :bigsmyl2: Wife thinks tools should be put up every day. I think they should be put up at the conclusion of the job. It drives both of us nuts. Since she doesn't have to see the inside of the barn everyday, she's allowed me to do it my way. I only get fussed at when she needs said tool for a project in the house and can't find it.

[dudel]

Guardian.

I'd paint the walls a very light color to reflect whatever light you have in there. That is one neat box marking tool. In my case it would pay for itself in not time at all.

[OS OK]

I'm with dudel on the white...well eggshell flat or something like that. Stark white ain't what we imagined it to be. You can't hide the fact that it's a chip board under the paint so the flat will help keep the definition of the composite out of the eyesight and the walls will look soft and bright. Figure how many lights you need and add 20% to that, my old eyes see very clearly but the light level determines that.
Years back when the mini roto tools came out the sheetrockers started using them on nailed up board, they'd just locate boxes with a hammer hole, can't tell you how many of my wires got chewed up...never wanted to kill someone more than for that. What ever happened to one man calling out the measurements in eights and the other marking and cutting on the stack...guess that the right way goes out with speed. Never liked wiring custom homes so I only did it for the factory owners as a special favor.

Can't wait to see further developments...OS OK

[Guardian]

I'm afraid the flat or satin paint will stay dirty all the time. Gloss would help reflect light as well. But I see your point on the texture in the wall. I may end up putting something over the exposed OSB when done. I'm not expecting that to be very much area. The lower half of the walls on the west side and half of the back wall will be covered with benches and storage. I may do corrugated metal over the OSB on the lower portion of the eastern wall and other half of the back wall in an effort to provide some spark resistance to the OSB.

Regarding lights, I have 4 LED fixtures up now, two in each bay. I have already installed two boxes in the ceiling above each wall to allow me to install hanging shop lights easily in the future. There are also two more ceiling boxes near the center, between the bays. That allows me to put up 16 more fixtures in the future. I hope that is enough expansion options, but I'm sure I'll find that I put at least one of them in the wrong spot. :roll::roll::roll:

Thanks for the input and let me know if you think of something else.

[lightman]

I've been in the electrical business for a long time and I must say that your box cutouts are better than most of the professional jobs that I have worked on. Your wiring looks good too! Like OS said, they nail the sheetrock up over the boxes and cut the openings with a plunge cut router. They often cut or damage the wires and also miss a box occasionally. You should have a really nice room when you are finished with it and I hope that you get to enjoy it for many years to come. Good Job!

[Hamish]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blind-Mark-Drywall-Electrical-Box-Locating-Tool-Kit-4-Pieces-BMWK/100529468

This makes me want to puke remembering every stinking hole that had to be measured, layed out, and cut.

Good looking work Guardian.

[OS OK]

That tool looks like it'll get'r done.
Though I've watched the drywallers back in the 70's as one would call the measurements in eights and the other seeing where he was measuring would measure and scribe with a razor knife on the pile in the middle of the floor, then with a hand drywall saw stand that piece or slide it over the edge of the stack...make the cut(s) and together hang the board and nail it out...and...pretty damn quick. When they turned loose of that sheet it was ready for the mudders. That was old fashioned teamwork and skill in measuring.
Noticed on the display of the locator system they used an electrical box that nailed or screwed on from the front of the stud. I'll bet that is in the directions...when you nail rock over boxes that nail to the side of the stud, you can knock the box back into the wall or spring it out sideways. The front edge of the box is suppose to be nearly to the front of the rock for fire protection, some of the old inspectors used to nail us with a red tag for that on the rough in inspection.

[Guardian]

lightman, thank you much for the compliments. I have to point out, though, you'd laugh at my production rate. If I was having to pay by the hour to get this done, I'd have fired me already. :shock: Fortunately, it really doesn't matter how long it takes as long as it's right. Haven't had my reloading stuff set up in two years, what's another one?

Hamish, I bet a lot of folks wanted to puke when they realize how simple the concept is. It's one of those "why didn't I think of that" gizmos.

OS OK, it can certainly be done another way, but the tool is helpful for those of us who aren't carpenters or dry-wallers. I guarantee I'd have messed up the measurements, forgetting to account for the gap off the concrete, the slight cant in the panel, etc. It's also helpful for doing it by yourself. My wife has helped with a few things, like ripping sheet on the table saw and cleaning up the walls ahead of insulation; but mostly it's been a one man show. I use a crowbar under the lower edge of the sheet at the end nearest the previously hung sheet (or corner if I'm starting a new wall) to get a gap at the floor. Somewhere I read you wanted to keep the OSB off the concrete and it made sense to me. Anyway, with the crowbar under the sheet as a fulcrum and the panel against the studs, I push up and over on the open edge (side farthest from the previously hung sheet) and flush the vertical butt seam on the closed side. Then I put one screw in the panel on the open side, mark the boxes, remove panel, cut, rehang, and secure. Doing it that way, I've not had a problem with bending boxes, with the exception of one double gang box that I didn't quite get the hole big enough for the first time and then tried to force it. Lesson learned.

I really do appreciate all the feedback and input on my project!

[dudel]

Guardian, I'm not a big fan of gloss paint; but it sure helps in keeping it clean (so I use it!). Once painted, run a razor blade between the panels so they can be unscrewed and removed without messing up the paint.

I like LED for task lighting; but if you really want to flood the place with light (and only use a few fixtures), check out the High Output (HO) fluorescents. First garage had about 18 non HO tubes. Bright but loud buzzing. Slow starting in cold weather. Next garage was larger, but I had it lit with three 8' HO fixtures. Brighter, faster starting, quiet, not affected by cold and more energy efficient.

[Guardian]

Patience is a virtue, of which I have none. :smile: Fluorescent lights certainly put out a lot of light, but I hate waiting on them to start and flipping the switch again if they don't start. I've been pretty impressed with the LED fixtures that are intended to replace fluorescents.

Here is another of my current projects:
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_04501.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_04501.jpg.html)

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_04511.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_04511.jpg.html)

Here's a board with the finish we're going to:
http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww225/spicket80/Reloading%20Room/IMG_03971.jpg (http://s722.photobucket.com/user/spicket80/media/Reloading%20Room/IMG_03971.jpg.html)

Since I'm buying this stuff by the 5 gal bucket, I've considered just using the same stain and topcoat in the barn on the OSB. I'm not sure how it will look though. This is the reason I have the Osborne brush, I'm using it to remove the raised grain once we get it stripped. Never thought I'd be buffing a house.

Anyway, the topcoat is gloss, so it would be easy to clean and should reflect light pretty well. Another option is to do a whitewash type stain that still lets the texture of the panel come through.

Then again, maybe I'm trying to put lipstick on a pig....

[OS OK]

I'm sure that you'll have lots of scrap to experiment with regarding colors and finishes...don't get in a hurry, you've worked too hard for a hurry up and rush to complete now.
I get what your saying about working alone, it ain't fast but it's done your way. Just keep stacking BB's, you'll reach for another one fine morning and find you're done.
That other project is a beauty...you have a fine looking home.

[dudel]

Looking very good Guardian. At the end, you'll know it was done the way you wanted.