Bedding

[Taylor]

I have probably watched every you tube video on the subject.Read a bunch on here.

The rifle is a 1998 Savage model 12 BVSS in .223.Laminate stock.This is my first bedding job.I would like some input,guidance and words of wisdom,if ya'll don't mind.

'cause I sure don't want to stick things together that don't need to be stuck!:groner:

[aspangler]

First make sure there is a LITTLE bit of clearance for the action to be bedded. Don't take much. I would make sure that the barrel channel was releived so that there was enough clearance for it to float. Take the trigger, bolt, saftey, etc. off. Fill any places in the action that could possibley get bedding in it. Modeling clay works well for this. Spray the entire action and barrel with a mold release like PAM. Get some Bondo Resin Jelly and mix per instruction. Put it anywhere metal will be in the stock where you want bedding to be. A little vaseline or something like it on the outside of the stock will make it easier to clean up the excess. Put the prepared action in the stock and tight down the screws. (Be sure the screws are coated with PAM or vaseline. This prevents them being "glued" into the action.) When it sets up but not too hard take the action back out of the stock and clean up all the excess bedding. Clean the action, barrel, etc. really good. Give the bedding time to set really well then you can reinstal the action. While waitng for the bedding to cure would be a good time to reinstall the trigger , etc. If you put enough bedding in the stock, you should be through. If not simply put a little more compound in the stock and go from there. This last is BEFORE you clean the action and be sure to add more release agent.

Hope this helps.

[Wolfer]

I tend to bed every rifle I have anyway BUT, that Savage is pillar bedded from the factory and you probably won't see any difference in how it shoots.
This is assuming it's a factory stock.
These guns tend to shoot pretty good from the factory.

As I said I bed mine anyway. I just couldent tell it helped.

[country gent]

Use a good release agent Pam is good ( though heavy coats will leave wrinkles in the bedding). paste wax works good and is easy to see. The comercial release agents sold by brownells midways and others used as per instructions. Remove trigger saftey magazines any thing that can form a mechanical lock with the bedding. Plug holes cut outs recess with modeling clay. I put some 1/8" cuts 1/8" deep in the stock for bedding agents on round actions this is 6:00 3:00 and 9:00. this gives a place for bedding to be. I also remove some material behind recoil lug and sides of lug in stock How much depends on the cartridges recoil level. I use action pins and a light clamp to hold in stock while curing. I mixh bedding in a large vetranary syringe and usee that to fill grooves recoil lugs and a popcicle stick to spread it out. Slide the astion pins into stock and clamp into stock, you want to see an even flow of bedding agent push out but not all of it. I have built up the barrel channel with tape to a light snug fit 3" ahead of action and at muzzle to help maintain alighnment. Let cure according to instructions with bedding agent. Clean up is easier just after bedding starts to set up slightly. Very carefully with a square ended popcicle stick remove excess bedding that has squeezed out. I like to leave a small amountto file blend when finishing job up. I also like to letcure fully before removing action as still soft bedding can be distorted removing actions. Another trick is to install a couple bedding pins in the stock one front and back to support action so edding cant be pushed out completely. I have don this with small wood screws and dowels both. Bedding a rifle isnt mystical its just following the procedure to get a even coat of bedding that dosnt bend bind or stress the reciever.

[seaboltm]

I dont think Bondo has the strength you want. I use bondo on stocks when I am trying to build a pattern for duplication, but I would NEVER consider using bondo for a final bedding material. Indeed for some applications when building a pattern to duplicate I use "kitty hair" instead of straight bondo. Even cured regular bondo is soft and can be chipped away easily with any edged tool. Ask any body man. Brownells acarglas is great, but not cheap. Devcon 2 ton epoxy is cheap and easy find and has the strength you need. JB Weld has also been used for this job. JB Weld has metal particles embedded and is very strong. Pam is a good release agent. I did stick one stock with Pam, and it was a very expensive blank that I had turned. I now use Brownells brush on release AND spray on release. Sort of like wearing a belt and suspenders. I have done dozens, but I swear, if you ever stick one, especially on a high end stock, you won't think two release agents are overkill. As for me, I only use Brownells Acraglas for final bedding these days.

[Wolfer]

Same here. I've used JB weld with good results but prefer Accra glass gel.
No one here has over stressed release agents. The last stock I did I used Brownells release agent. However I only used one coat instead of multiple coats like they recommend. Split a 1/2" wide sliver the length of the forearm. Cut it off the barrel with a knife and glued it back on with Accra glass. You have to look really close to see it.

It gives you that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach.

[country gent]

I use alot of bisonite steel bed its a little harder to mix in correct ratios but is very hard and stable. one of the few recomended to hold up to M1As and Garands. I have used devcon steel putty, Marine Tex, Accralass gel, and micro bed to bed rifles. I have done a few glue ins also. Here I normally look for a thin epoxy and bed in first then assemble and glue into stock as a second step.

[Don Fischer]

I've used JB Weld a lot, good stuff. make sure the action is relived a bit everywhere. Sand out the barrel channel until it's relieved. Then plug the rear screw hole with model clay. use plenty of release agent and use it on the front action screw. Put a shim under the front of the barrel. Relieve the recoil lug mortise and put two layer's of elect plastic tape on the front and both side's of the recoil lug. Relieve the rear tang area. Apply the bedding compound to the recoil lug and rear tang area. Install the front action screw snug but not tight, float the rear tang. The shim under the front of the barrel will lift the barrel and push the rear tang into the bedding. I let it all set about and hour and back out the front action screw a turn or two then re-tighten it. I've always had this fear of gluing in the front action screw, never have but it does bother me. When your done and the bedding is cured, the points of contact will be the rear tang and the recoil lug and front of the action. Barrel floats completely. Some people bed under the barrel to the front of the chamber. works well but if the bedding doesn't go straight across the barrel channel. the barrel will bounce on the long side and you won't have much accuracy. I have also full bedded a barrel a couple times and it does work well. Have tried up pressure on the front of the stock, never worled for me. I take that out of every gun I have that had it.

[Taylor]

I gathered my "stuff",agraglas gel,picked this up from Midsouth on Monday.Bought modeling clay,neutral kiwi,painters tape.I spent Sunday and Monday getting the stock ready.Had to go to the VA yesterday and get shots in my back,knee gets them on Friday.3 more appointment's next week,back and knees.So I have to work around these,plus yesterday I was pretty medicated.

Every thing I have read on Savage stocks says not to bed the tang area,it needs .010-.030 clearance.In reality there is not a lot to bed anyway,especially around and past the rear pillar.

Right now the action is filled with clay and has 2 heavy coats of kiwi.I will add the release agent from the agraglas kit as a final prep.Just hope I can get that magazine back in place when everything is said and done.

The stock has been relieved in areas around front/rear pillar.Were I thought it needed it.

Pics? Maybe,probably not a bad idea.

[Taylor]

159231159232159233

[quack1]

Your picture shows that you taped the rear of the recoil lug. Not good. The rear of the recoil lug is the only place on the lug that you don't want to tape. You are bedding to get a perfect fit of the rear of the recoil lug and the part of the action behind the lug, any tape there will prevent that.
I'd also fill the grooves on the barrel nut with clay, just in case.

[Blackwater]

All good info above, except I don't know about the bondo thing. Have never used it, and likely won't. I want my bedding to be solid and permanent and tough. Glass, filled with fiberglass flocking or some other hardening filler, is all I'll use, permanently. As others, I've used Acra-Glass, both Gel and std., Micro Bed, Marine Tex and Devcon 30 min. with flocking added, and they all worked well. With bedding, it's kind'a like bluing in that it's all about the prep work, really. First I check the bedding, sometimes just by feel when I lay it in the stock and try to wiggle it around any that I can get it to. This tells me where the most compound needs to be, which helps me figure how much bedding material to put in any given spot. Then I use Johnson's Paste Wax and greast the action and barrel REALLY good, and let it dry to harden. I apply it with an old, smooth cotton rag. Have also used shoe polish as well, and it's always done great as a release agent. I will NEVER use the stuff that comes with the bedding kits again for a "release agent." It forms a skin that CAN be peeled off as you place the action in the wood, and if that happens, you've got a glue-in, like it or not! I got one on a friend's rifle, one that he really liked and shot well. It was embarassing and there was only a littls place about 1/8" x 7/8" that was stuck. It was enough that I tried freezing it 4 or 5 times, which is supposed to loosen it sometimes. Didn't work for me that time. Wound up cracking the stock in my progressive efforts to hammer it out. I hid the crack very well, but just knowing it was there was enough for my friend to trade it off, even though it shot like a house afire. Thus, I simply refuse to use the stuff that comes in the kits any more, though some seem to swear by it.

I like to bed all of the action and on sporters or heavy barrel target/varmint barrels, the first @ 2.5" under the chamber of the barrel. This has given me the best results with sporter wt. barrels and has never hurt the heavy barrels. I like the way the forward bedding supports the wt. of the heavy barrels, and have never bedded one this way that didn't shoot very well, though I've never been into benchrest class work, so this is for field and target guns only. There are as many techniques in benchrest bedding as there are folks who work on those guns, I think, and all swear by their own techniques. Why should bedding sporting guns be any different?

One thing I do that hasn't been mentioned, is I like to have @ 1/32" clearance all around the barrel in the barrel channel. After the prep work is done, and the compound has been put in the recesses and the action greased so it won't stick, I almost always put a thin spacer of @ 1/32" or several wraps of electrical tape around the barrel near the forend. This is to help ensure the alignment of the barrel in the center of the forend while the bedding is hardening. I just like doing this, but it's no big deal. Started doing it after one of my bedding jobs was a little crooked. Fixed that with some dowels wrapped with sand paper to get appx. equal clearance all the way around. It was and is more of an affectation than a necessity, probably, but I just like knowing everything is in "balance" in my work. It just seemed to be a no-brainer to me, so i've always tried to do that.

Only other thing I can add to what's already been posted is that when tightening the guard screws I like to just snug them up, unless I've managed to put a little too much bedding under the action, in which case I'll torque down on the screw to flow some of the compound out, but I do it slowly, since compound doesn't flow very rapidly. I keep looking at the gun in the stock to get everything the right depth into the stock just so, like I think it ought to be. Waxing the stocks where bedding might flow out and get on the exterior of it is a really good idea. JPW won't affect any gunstock finish I'm familiar with, and ensures there's no unsightly overflow that can't be removed without taking the stock finish with it - always a good thing.

Oh! Forgot! I also wrap at least 2 turns of electrical tape around the barrel at the front of where I want the under chamber bedding to end. This provides a good, sharp line for the bedding to end on, and just again keeps things balanced.


To me, the whole "secret" to bedding is just to make the rear of the action and maybe the first part of the barrel as rigid and closely fit as possible. This simply lets the barrel vibrate more consistently, and this is what contributes to the enhanced accuracy it often produces. This is just the way I do it, and everyone seems to have their own little variations, but all of them work when aptly done, and often improve accuracy dramatically. That and a little trigger work, IF you know what NOT to do to a trigger, and most off the shelf rifles can be made to shoot sub MOA with good loads worked up for the individual rifle. Hard to beat that, really, and it sure gives a fella' confidence when he draws a bead on an animal or target - always a helpful thing.

[Taylor]

Well it came loose pretty easy,clean up is a chore.

[Blackwater]

You did good, then, I think. The critical aprt is NOT getting it stuck. One case of that is a'plenty per customer!

Best way to simplify cleanup is to wipe out any excess that squeezes out before it dries and hardens. This is one reason I like the JPW/shoe polish as a release agent. It seems to not mind a little scraping with sharpened popsickle sticks or the equivalent after you've bolted it all together and some of the compound oozes out. A little time there makes for less time in cleaning the job up after it all hardens. FWIW?

[Clark]

I bought a 1988 Sav 110 223 at a gun show in Feb 2013 for $240, to use the action for this project.
I bought a TACTICOOL SAVAGE® 10 BLIND MAG SHORT ACTION CENTER FEED BULL BARREL CHANNEL LAMINATE STOCK W/BLACK TEXTURED FINISH (4300603-1G-203) $114
These are now called pro varmint by Boyds
The Lothar Walther bull barrel was $114 on sale at Brownells.
The thicker recoil lug was $26.


I have a 4.522" receiver, which I could find no aftermarket stocks, but I bought that Boyds that is meant for a 4.415" receiver.
I had to mill out the stock for:
a) longer action
b) 1/2" pillars instead of 1/4" screws
c) .240" thick SSS recoil lug instead of .150" recoil lug
d) 1.2" barrel channel, not 1.05"

I put a Lothar Walther 14" twist bull barrel on the receiver with no barrel nut, just a shoulder pushed up against the SSS recoil jug. I cut a .250" neck 223 chamber.

I painted the stock with 083-002-211ALUMA-HYDE II AEROSOL, DESERT TAN aerosol one part epoxy paint in a cardboard box I heated to 90 degrees.
I made 1/2" aluminum alloy round rod into pillars pillars that fit the receiver's convex bottom. The concave radius of the pillar tops are slightly smaller than the receiver radius, but the pre tension of the action screws while has the ears of the pillars in full contact

I used Devcon PLASTIC STEEL ADEVCON 10110.

I drilled two 1/4" holes in the stock for a Karsten's Custom Cheek Rest A-Model.
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/HomemadeAluminiumpillarfrom05instockwithtriggerrel iefcutforearly70sSav1109-16-.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Barrelledactionleveledinbarrelviseandstockleveledd uringpillarbedding9-16-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/PillarbeddingSav110223BoydtacticalwithDevconSteelP utty9-16-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/223Sav1109-18-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Savage11022335grVmax13grBlueDot100yards4groupsof59-18-2013.jpg
This is the first target at 100 yards shot with ground squirrel handloads: mixed brass, blem 35 gr Vmax, and 15 gr Blue Dot, 2.17" OAL

[44man]

I keep a relief on the front, bottom and sides of the recoil lug, I only bed the rear and action and about 2" of barrel, floating the rest. After removing enough wood from the channel it can be fully bedded too by building up tape on the barrel. I have very thick aircraft electrical tape, 2" wide and two to three layers is perfect.
I had one of those wimpy plastic stocks that flexed so I hogged out a channel and steel bedded a length of stainless aircraft hydraulic tube in it. Fixed that problem!
Always leave some original wood under the action so when you tighten you don't go deeper and any tang at the rear needs clearance or the stock can split. I have had to repair many by drilling down into the stock and bedding in steel pins. I would fix any crack first and use Accra-Glass forced in all the way. Cracks are easy and if wrapped very tight with strips of inner tube or surgical tubing, you will never see them.
Don't try to clean up fresh bedding from the outside of the stock. I tape the stock with masking tape, not painters tape. Only takes one strip next to steel.
Now let the bedding set up only enough to cut. Make a cutter out of hard plastic, mine is 1/4" thick x 1/2" to 3/4" wide, sharpened to a blade on each end. Like a wood chisel. Now cut the gummy bedding right to the steel by running on the tape. That will leave a very clean edge. It will not scratch the metal. You can remove the tape after.
Let it harden a day before removing metal.
One other thing I do is put steel bed at the recoil lug first, then add the other bedding so it flows together. Pillar bed before or after, not at the same time. Best before so you have the support when bedding the action.
Past wax is best on screw threads.

[Clark]

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Sav110223glassbeddingbehindtherecoillug9-28-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Sav110223glassbeddingbehindtherecoillugb9-28-2013.jpg

In Rem700 and Sav110 I bed the pillars one day and the back of the recoil lug the next.
When I am done, only the pillars and the back of the recoil lug touches. Everything else is a clearance fit by at least the thickness of masking tape.
To get he pillars to have V block force multiplier fit on the receiver, I use a boring head in the mill to get the right radius.
The pillars will be 0.010" smaller diameter cut than the receiver radius.

[aspangler]

Sorry some people don't read to thoughly. When I suggested Bondo apparently noone read the "RESIN JELLY" part. This is not regular bondo. It is a two part fibreglass jelly with fibreglass stands in it. VERY STRONG AND TOUGH. Once it sets it is going nowhere.
Rant over.

[gnoahhh]

I've been using West System epoxy for many years now, thickened with colloidal silica. Works fine. Any old paste wax I have on hand fills the bill for a release agent.

There's really no need to buy Brown-give me all your money-ell's bedding compound. It's nothing more nor less than a decent epoxy, and in the case of the Gel it simply already has the silica (floc) mixed into the resin.

[44man]

Still a polyester resin that can sugar under heavy recoil. I worked in the fiberglass field once and epoxy is still better.
You need to consider working time when bedding. You need time and I mean time! I have seen polyester go off so fast it would catch fire. Accra-Glass is all I use because of that. Even a slow epoxy glue can be too fast.

[Taylor]

What makes a good die?You get just a small portion with the agraglas.I'm sure something inexpensive is laying around the house.This was my first bedding job.I think I did good,thanks to ya'll.

[44man]

What makes a good die?You get just a small portion with the agraglas.I'm sure something inexpensive is laying around the house.This was my first bedding job.I think I did good,thanks to ya'll.
Accra-Glass die needs so little to color, it is way more then you will ever need. It also works with most other resins. I can empty the jars and have a lot of coloring left.
When I get done with a stock, it is priceless to me and I will not cut corners for a few bucks.
Another tip for you all. If you have some bedding left after the job, you might need to fill a few spots after you remove the metal. Put the excess in the freezer, it will keep and when warmed up, you can touch up those spots. It will then harden normally.
If Accra-Glass gets hard in the jars, heat it up and it comes back to life.

[aspangler]

The Resin Jelly I have used on a 45-70 bolt gun and a 416 Rigby. NO trouble with anything "Powdering" or Fracturing.

[44man]

The Resin Jelly I have used on a 45-70 bolt gun and a 416 Rigby. NO trouble with anything "Powdering" or Fracturing.
Good to know but how about working time? I never used it so don't know. I like to work slow. Nothing worse then the stuff going off in the middle.

[aspangler]

Working time can vary as you want it by the amount of catalyst you use. Anywhere from "HURRY UP!" to "darn, is it ever going to set up?" You can also put iron filings, aluminum powder, carbon fiber or whatever you may want in it. A 78 year old gunsmith who has been building guns for 60 years put me onto this stuff. I have in my personal "arsenal" two 22 rimfires, a 8mm Mauser, A 30-06, and a 45-70 bolt action all bedded with it. OOPS! Forgot the 270. I tend to shoot HOT loads in the 270 and the 45-70. That's where the rifles like it and where I get the best accuracy. Try it. You can always dig it out and replace it with something else if you don't like it. You might have to drill and blast though! :kidding:

[44man]

I seen it at the fiberglass factory. Woman would not add enough hardener and in the morning, the molding was not hard. We had to add more resin with more hardener and cobalt to fire it.
What do you do with less catalyst and it does not get hard? You walk a thin line when I depend on Accra-Glass with confidence.
I fiber glassed boats too and epoxy was the best to stick and control. Withstood rock better.
I don't think I will be looking for cheaper on a fine rifle.
How many bottles of glue are needed for a gun when Accra-Glass is good for 2 or 3?

[Clark]

Sangamo capacitors in GA when out of business after it was found out they had an out of control process in mixing the coloring and thickener with the epoxy resin and catalyst for end cap seals. Chemicals could get around it, corrode, and the whole thing would blow up and the end stop would ground out and shock the user if he touched the metal chassis. That was 1983-1984. That was a big company with high tech stuff, and what killed them was no epoxy recipe.

I have had enough personal hobby trouble. I mix a small amount and make sure it is getting hard.

[nekshot]

I thought I would save money and try some hardware epoxy and when I added the price for the same amount of product Acra Glass was a better buy. I never ever looked back after that and the ability to turn it what color I want make Acra Glass my choice.

[44man]

Accra-Glass is still best. Cheaper in the end too.
Look at tunnels that had ceilings collapse with the wrong mix of glue on bolts.
Some stock wood is worth thousands but even my wood I got from my woods is worth even more after the work, No way to cut corners for a few bucks.
i have built furniture and use many glues like Gorilla Glue and Elmer's, Titebond, etc. I know what to use in applications.
I made thousands of radio control airplanes too. Do you know to sheet a wing with balsa, you put white glue on both parts, let it dry. Then position it and heat with an iron, the glue will take and will never break but heat ruins epoxy and Loc-Tite.
Accra-Glass has come in for many projects other then guns too, I love the stuff.

[apen]

It did this to model 700 a few years ago. I used devcon. It turned out good.