Newbie question about leading

[Beaverhunter2]

This weekend I'll be shooting at a DNR range with the first boolits that I cast myself. I've seen on other threads that jacketed bullets can be used to remove leading. If I get lead from some of my test loads, can I just shoot a jacketed bullet to remove it before going on to the next candidate? Getting rodded off the range and cleaning the gun completely between sets of five or so rounds would really limit the number of loads I can test. Any advice would be appreciated. I can't wait to send some of my boolits downrange! I'm almost as excited as I get when Openng Day is just around the corner!

Thanks!

John

John

[454PB]

Yes, but with some limitations. Firing a jacketed (or cast with a gas check) bullet will remove the visible, heavy leading. However, if the leading is very heavy, it can be considered a bore obstruction. I've done this often with no problems, but I use a slightly reduced jacketed load or a cast boolit with gas check applied.

There will still be some minor leading to clean out, but the bulk of it will disappear.

I did an experiment about a year ago that went bad and completely plated the barrel of my Ruger RH. and opened up the groups to three times the normal size. I then fired a cylinder full of gas checked cast boolits, the accuracy returned, and all visible leading was removed.

[billyb]

I have read and been told that shooting jacketed in aleaded barrel would help remove the leading. Some time ago i read a article about this and i t stated that the build up of lead would decrease the bore diamiter depending on how severe the leading is and shooting jacketed in this bore would cause a pressure spike, not good. Bill

[HeavyMetal]

I think your in for a pleasent surprise!

Unless you've done something drastically wrong you should never see leading in 5 rounds.

Things considered drastic: No lube, no lube shooting 44 mag full house loads, pure lead with no lube shooting full house 44 mag loads, any swaged pure lead bullet in any full house magnum load, no gas check pure lead 44 mag full house load... I hope you get the idea.

I think if you haven't done anything like I just mentioned you'll be all right!

Please don't ask how I know these will lead.

[Ifishsum]

I don't believe in shooting jacketed to remove lead, it seems to take some off but what's left can be harder to remove.

As HeavyMetal said, you shouldn't have to worry about it too much. I routinely shoot 100 or more cast boolits at a time without cleaning, in fact I usually don't even check for leading during a shooting session unless I'm testing a new boolit. Shoot away and clean it up when you get home.

If you shoot a lot of cast and want to really get lead out quickly, invest a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's. I no longer fear leading at all.

[warf73]

If I was really worried about leading and haveing to clean before the next round. I would make up some COW loads and shot a cylinder full of them and then start my next shooting test.

[44man]

While a light load with a jacketed can remove some leading, if you get any copper on the bore it will cause more leading so it must be removed first. That can be harder then removing a little lead.
Personally I would just keep shooting the test loads and not worry about it. Clean when done to see if any built up. I doubt there will be enough to worry about.
Use a jag and tight patch, NOT a slotted *** rod end. And use a steel rod with a muzzle protector. Never clean your revolver without a muzzle protector.
Stay as far away from aluminum rods as you can, use them for garden markers.

[garandsrus]

John,

I am not sure what you are shooting, but I don't ever look for leading unless accuracy starts getting bad. If the gun is still grouping well, there is no leading, or no significant leading.

I think that leading the barrel is something that people have been conditioned to worry about too much. It really doesn't happen with a properly fitted boolit at an appropriate velocity. Leading scares a lot of people from shooting cast while they are knowingly "copper foul" their barrel with each shot without concern.

John

[Cloudpeak]

44man, why the comment about aluminum rods? I guess that's all I've used in the many years I've been shooting. I figured, since they're softer than the steel barrel that they would be just fine?

I've shot 2-3,000 rounds of cast bullets lubed with LLA through both of my 1911's. It seemed, at first, that I got a lot more leading than I do now. Now, just 4 or 5 strokes through the bore with "Chore Boy" wrapped around a brass brush cleans the bores up slick as a whistle. Is it possible that the bores "polished up" after a few thousand rounds of lead bullets?

Cloudpeak

[44man]

Aluminum rods pick up dirt and grit just laying around and if any part of it touches the bore it acts like an abrasive. Dirt imbeds in it. Then the jointed rods can flex or break in the bore. It takes some force with a good jag and patch and the aluminum can flex to rub the bore, or break.
Now a short, stiff one with a muzzle protector can work OK because you can keep it off the bore. I still don't use them though.
Good hard stainless or one of the new coated rods are best.
I have heard stories of BR shooters that would sell a gun or change the barrel if an aluminum rod was ever stuck through their barrels.
Throughout history, more damage has been done to barrels with ramrods then shooting would ever do. Look how a softer then barrel, wood ramrod has wallowed out millions of muzzle loaders at the muzzle end. That is what is wrong with aluminum, it is soft and can load with grit that will not wipe off.
I have to ask, how many here do not use a muzzle protector and just go crazy with a rod to scrub their barrels?
This is what you want to use.

[runfiverun]

clean, lead ? what?
i have a model 92, that i bought back in the 80's have only shot lead in it since new
and the only thing i have ever cleaned in it is the action.
maybe i should clean the bbl. it has been near 7000 rounds now. according to the 7 marks on the box of 1000 pieces of brass i bought for it.
maybe i should buy some new brass also.

[AZ-Stew]

I have seen a revolver barrel (S&W M28, 6"bbl, .357 Mag.) bulged by someone trying to shoot the leading out using a jacketed load. Here's how it occurred:

New reloader, acting on the advice of "friends", purchased a box of Speer swaged 158gr SWC bullets to do a little "cheap shooting". These bullets, unlike cast WW bullets, are almost pure lead and are VERY soft. They are also covered with a thin layer of a waxy lube. They work fine for "plinker" loads, up to about 800fps or so, and are quite accurate. They are not intended for magnum loads. The new reloader loaded these bullets to full-power level, using the same load he had been using for jacketed bullets.

At this velocity, the soft lead swaged bullets could not grip the rifling in the barrel and were essentially "squirted" through the bore, with the rifling scraping off lead as each bullet passed. When the accuracy had deteriorated to a level where it became obvious something was wrong, our new reloader inspected the revlover and found its barrel heavily leaded. I don't remember whether it was the same or another group of "friends" that urged him to "just shoot out the leading with some jacketed rounds", but he promptly did.

The bulge in the barrel began just in front of the frame. I've seen worse, but it still required a barrel replacement.

Cast bullets using Wheel Weight alloy or something harder typically don't cause this kind of problem. First, they're 2+ times harder than swaged, pure lead bullets. Second, cast bullets typically carry much more of more effective lubricants than swaged bullets. In handguns, this allows them to be driven twice as fast in magnum loadings with little or no leading.

If:

> you cast your bullets from a reasonably hard alloy (WW or harder)

> you've used a good commercial lube, or one of the exotic lube creations concocted by certain members of this board

> you've made sure you're using well-cast plain-based bullets with completely filled-out bases or are using a gas check design with a check

> you are keeping your velocities within reasonable levels

> you are starting with a clean, copper-free barrel

then you shouldn't see any leading in your barrel even after firing hundreds of rounds.

If you use a softer alloy or one of the commercial swaged bullets, just keep the velocity down and you should get the same, leading-free results.

Welcome to bullet casting!

Regards,

Stew

[Beaverhunter2]

Thanks, guys! Maybe I am a bit overly concerned. I have some ACWW and WCWW PB boolits that might be a bit under-sized. I don't think it will be a big problem, but wanted to check if there was anything I should do. All were lubed with either LLA or JPW (a few .480 400gr PB). The loads are very conservative. I think maybe I should quit worrying and enjoy my shooting.

Thanks again!

John

[405]

Aluminum rods pick up dirt and grit just laying around and if any part of it touches the bore it acts like an abrasive. Dirt imbeds in it. Then the jointed rods can flex or break in the bore. It takes some force with a good jag and patch and the aluminum can flex to rub the bore, or break.
Now a short, stiff one with a muzzle protector can work OK because you can keep it off the bore. I still don't use them though.
Good hard stainless or one of the new coated rods are best.
I have heard stories of BR shooters that would sell a gun or change the barrel if an aluminum rod was ever stuck through their barrels.
Throughout history, more damage has been done to barrels with ramrods then shooting would ever do. Look how a softer then barrel, wood ramrod has wallowed out millions of muzzle loaders at the muzzle end. That is what is wrong with aluminum, it is soft and can load with grit that will not wipe off.
I have to ask, how many here do not use a muzzle protector and just go crazy with a rod to scrub their barrels?
This is what you want to use.

44man,
You got it. I use three different Dewey rods, depending on gun, all with muzzle guards for the single shots and levers and with a bore guide for the hi-power bolt guns. For the handguns I use same procedure but with shorter hardened SS rod with ball bearing handle.

I clean often. PITB...... but I know for absolute certain that the results of the next load testing are valid and not skewed by crud from prevoius shooting.

As far as shooting Jbullet to remove lead. Used to do it in handgun. Found that it would get some out but the rest would still have to be removed by conventional means like tight fit bronze wool wrapped around a worn out brush and for really bad lead in handgun the Lewis lead remover. Quit the Jbullet method long ago- didn't see the advantage when the gun would still have to be cleaned by conventional means anyway.