.45 Colt NEF, How Hot?

[Good Cheer]

How hot have you loaded your NEF .45Colt break over?
I've played around some with bore riding boolits to free up powder space. Working on it.

[Outpost75]

I have used Ruger loads up to about 25,000 psi based on Speer data, you get about 150-200 fps more than in a 7-1/2" revolver.

[tacklebury]

I load 300 gr. XTP Magnums with a book near max load of H110. Very accurate and kills deer quickly. ;) I've also played around with the Reloader7 version of the same load, but they are for carbine only and cannot be mixed into the pistol box. hehe

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HAouLBWrXKOScCjjzJlG0vQqQSTWuvWqCh-Z0ebWGbuXBAv7GJZgGEOtCWj3pzsbWCJujcG6COIuzna3Nn_ha ZD6zHV5YLdVwJfKQ9r6nzWs0qTRXQikPqsMcvDheTAsXjE4l9J HjNXm_JshyRx-_de1el9KWuDzYXQ4d6sgbrpXW5Q-YNfLb7QL4LKSew31MtBn0oAC4SaZSf41ucLPhRv4fY0SANTWk4 8qgUuFLQSI9RJUqtFrleUgYawm_51YeiZbREe1-a5g7Dx7T8StccM-Hkbx5mM7ycEgppw2XRjHIGird1Q29y-y9Eyj-CaM83M1cSwarpMq60gRHtfaJ2HQnLehoRB7LkHTXd20UiVfQcx kdYP2hmmX6fYuATIGL1t58XXt8UG2ltUcR1UPZwm7CKOItIoqw 40OB25PoY1G0PF1z2z8HGvPEx8FIGUYxtzj9ETrTkoIG-oz0dIgcDTFAQmJpnfVh3ymneGrGxe_lwDjYXc0Qcl0nHziQH_N 522w6naEVoo8NfuAiD_ifQ7TJ1hWO72dLAGZ0xzozd9qrmTGDb yNgMZyfyomeQ204OUU=w602-h800-no

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm has some good resources for different powders and speaks of the reloader7 loads.

[Good Cheer]

Nice picture!
Thanks for the info.

I've read of the chambers being reamed to Casull or even to .460S&W.
And you know, I'm not really too sure that I'd want to except for loading black.

[Tackleberry41]

I run ruger only loads in my rossi single shot all the time. The rifle was sold as a 44 mag, I built a stub barrel in 45 colt for it, if it can take 44 mag, why cant it take the hot but still lower pressure 45 colt.

[tacklebury]

Yah, many people at GB rent the reamer and take it out further. My colt is pristine and took me 3 tries to get a good chamber. This one is so perfect, it deforms the brass less than my .45 Blackhawk which basically doesn't need resizing. I still do typically resize, but back when starting to load for it, I didn't have a lot of brass. My near Casull load with that carbine kicks less than the 30-30 barrel to me and performs better for short distance shots, which are typically what I have on our property.

[Good Cheer]

It's kinda tempting to design a boolit specifically for the piece.
Something with a blunt nose, gas check and one small lube ring inside the case mouth, bore riding portion that will let the cartridge be thumbed into position. Probably about oh what, maybe 300 grains?

Or paper patched? Would that require altering the angle on the lead into the rifling? Maybe.

This is how some bore diameter 445599's have been tested. I'm thinking that maybe something similar could be done with a gas check design.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/seating%20length_zpskqyp19qv.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/seating%20length_zpskqyp19qv.jpg.html)

[Duckdog]

A lot of this depends on the receiver. If it's on a shotgun receiver, load it a bit lighter. I generally load mine to about 1150 FPS with a 255 gr pill using Unique. I have a 45/70 for the heavier loads, so I load this one so my wife can shoot it, as the load I am using has pretty light recoil

[leftiye]

SB2? You could almost put a .454 in that barrel if you wanted. The action should be fine with it as it will take full house 30-06. Question really is how loose is the chamber, and do you want split cases. Or maybe how fast do you feel the need to push your boolits.

[Tackleberry41]

I use the 300gr shockwave muzzle loaders bullets in mine, minus the sabot of course. Using 296 they run about 1300fps. Its a rifle only load as they would never fit in a revolver.

[Outpost75]

SB2? You could almost put a .454 in that barrel if you wanted. The action should be fine with it as it will take full house 30-06. Question really is how loose is the chamber, and do you want split cases. Or maybe how fast do you feel the need to push your boolits.

I found the chamber in my Cowboy Classic .45 Colt was quite loose. Annealing the brass to obtain a better seal in the chamber and using larger diameter .455-.456 bullets helps alot. Most of the time I shoot 7.2 grains of Bullseye with a Saeco #955 255-grain cowboy bullet cast 1:30 tin lead and this is very accurate from both the Handi Rifle and my Ruger Vaquero. The soft alloy tolerates the Ruger's tighter .452 cylinder throats OK and while this load is a bit warm for the Colt clones, it works great in the Rugers and H&R.

In photo below Saeco #954 230-grain is at left, #955 255-grain at right. Only difference is the width of the base band, being .10" on the #954 and .150" on the #955, both molds cast .455-.456 in 1:30 tin/lead alloy.

158704

[BAGTIC]

The advantage of a single-shot is that you can load the bullets out as far as you want, With typical H&R chambers it might be possible using the right powder to approach 1600-1800fps with a 300 grain lead bullet at safe for the rifle pressures. Personally I would not want to shoot that powerful load in the lightweight H&R but because I have already had that shoulder operated on once and hope to finish out my years without an encore.

[wgr]

i shoot a lbt 300 grain wfn with h110 ruger loads. it will hammer a whitetail

[Lonegun1894]

I don't have the .45 Colt version of this rifle, but do have the .44 Mag, and it came on a shotgun receiver instead of the stronger rifle receiver. It is on a rifle receiver now, but I would say that you are safe going to at least "Ruger-only loads", but really don't think it is necessary to load these that hot for a good and effective hunting rifle.

[Good Cheer]

For experimentation purposes I rummaged around and pulled out some 245 grain 45ACP hardball contour round noses that will pretty well maximize the powder space to see what cooks. Won't be the most accurate boolit but they're here and will provide some data points.

[Good Cheer]

Put together some test loads today with 4198 at about 95% of the available space.
Looks like shifting to CCI-350's will be tried next.

[Good Cheer]

It's not February yet and cabin fever is setting in...
Just musing on a design that would be a bore rider.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/45ColtBoreRidingHP%201_zpsugpjkrnh.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/45ColtBoreRidingHP%201_zpsugpjkrnh.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

In the past it was contemplated that a paper patch might be better...

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/45ColtPP_zps4db891aa.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/45ColtPP_zps4db891aa.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

Backing up a bit and rethinking the matter, this design has all the bases covered except weight.
Maybe if it had a bore riding portion inserted into the middle to run the weight up into the neighborhood of 360 grains.
I might have to spring for a totally custom mold. Haven't done that in a while.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/mysterymetal_zpsb27efe0f.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/mysterymetal_zpsb27efe0f.jpg.html)

[Lonegun1894]

I know this takes a lot of the fun out of it, but if you want a 300+gr .45 HP, how about the old boring Gould bullet? The Lyman 457122HP, just size it to .452 or .454", as your rifle prefers, and start testing. For what it's worth, mine casts at .461" and weighs 335grs as cast, but I have only used it in .45-70, so not sure if or how well it would work in the .45 Colt. My .45 Colts are either revolvers or Win 92 clones, so I'm not much help.

[Good Cheer]

You know, that's a pretty good idea. It wouldn't let me put the weight out in front of the case mouth but if it's hard cast and I run the pressure up it still might reach out good enough.

[Good Cheer]

Wholey mole' sauce!
I just scrummaged around in the box of molds for the .458 bore muzzleloader and found a Lyman 457191.
It might be a good fit if sized to .454 and seated out to the rifling.
Thanks for prompting me to go dig around!

[Lonegun1894]

I just hope it works. I wouldn't know what to start the load work up with, but the weight is in line with some of the heavy loads I've read of and in the range you're thinking. May not even have to cast it too hard either.

[Good Cheer]

This design is now available from Accurate.
Would definitely want a hollow point.
I was thinking on having a little less lead inside the case but he's probably right about this, especially running a softer cast hunting boolit.
Hmm, now the rifle might need one of those Leatherwood Malcolm three or six power "vintage" scopes.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-380C-D.png

[Catshooter]

If the action is an SB 2 then remember that NEF chambered rifles for the 500 S&W. Much larger case head and of course much more pressure than the 45 Colt or Casull or even the 460. And all of them are straight wall cases so all the apples are apples.


Cat

[Good Cheer]

This is going to need a scope.
Any yall using a Leatherwood Malcolm scope on one of these rifles?

http://www.hi-luxoptics.com/m634181.html

[Good Cheer]

Accurate Molds order is in.
Next, the scope...

[Good Cheer]

Been a long time and life has had me doing everything but tinkering with the .45.
The Accurate mold was finally gotten hot today to check for fit on the bore riding portion and it's a near metal to metal fit cast from wheel weights with just a little rattle room (0.4435"). Reckon a little bit of polishing will bring it up to loading with thumb pressure when cast soft.
Groove diameter bands fall out at 0.456".

Yeehah.
:drinks:

[NoAngel]

There have been several people on Greybeard that have reamed theirs to 460 S&W
I had one I reamed to 454 Casull, zero issues.

If you have an SB2 receiver, it is a pretty stout action.

[Good Cheer]

Man I'd really like to try that 460S&W cartridge with black.
However, that 380 grain Accurate mold is designed to fit the Handi chamber and maximize the powder space (a little over 5/16" of boolit in the case).

[Good Cheer]

Sized some from the Accurate mold to .454" diameter with Hornady gas checks and the old reliable double extra funky smelling DAX-beeswax-lanolin formula.
They weigh in at 383 grains.
The boolit with gas check extends into the case .34". That gives a powder column 0.76" long.
Developing these loads will be an adventure.
[smilie=w:

[Lonegun1894]

Good Cheer, that sounds like a .45-70 "short". Can't wait to hear what kind of results you get, cause I bet they'll be impressive.

[Good Cheer]

Sure hope so.
Been polishing up the crystal ball for 2400, 296 and 4227 starting loads.
I suppose 4198 really oughta be looked at as well.

[Good Cheer]

To start off load development, fired one round each with light loads of 2400 into stacked paper.
The first recovered boolit weighed 315. The last weighed 265.
Thought maybe I'd get to see how the bore riding portion behaved. No way. The flat on the nose starts out at .29" and they expanded all the way back to the lube groove and gas check.
I was thinking maybe this mold would get hollow pointed for hunting. We'll see.

[Good Cheer]

From left to right, stopped pushing 2400 before it got to max.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/383%20-%202400_zpsnspr5mqz.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/383%20-%202400_zpsnspr5mqz.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

Figure on trying a few more powders to establish an operating window.