Home grown gaschecks.

[lreed]

Hello; I've been tinkering with a gascheck forming tool that seems to work fair-to-middlin' well,the punch out a slug and "push it thru a die" kind. The cal is 8mm as that was what I was playing with at the time.The slug was cut from an aluminum food can .010 thick,as just a trial, worked well,the check clings tight to bullet after going through a.325 lube-sizer die, can't remove it without a tool. The food can supply of metal was very soon exhausted,found some aluminum flashing that was the required thickness, it also formed acceptable checks.
Sounds good,so far,thought I'd try to switch from aluminum to copper,I had no soft copper stock, so I split some copper tubing annealing and hammering til I got my required stock, this'' ain't no option'', however it did make a few nice checks. I started a search for copper stock of the right sort, got a real eye-opener; as best I can figure it would probably cost me money just to make copper checks over buying ready made!!!Soooo- aluminum appears to be the only option for cheap gas-checks.
After all this blather-I'll get to what"I'd shore lak to know", is the abrasiveness of aluminum gaschecks sufficent to exclude them from use in valued firearms????I think I've seen aluminum jacketed pistol bullets [Blazer],but have not seen or heard of commercialy produced checks. I'm as usual, trying to do 'stuff' that requires help from people who are more knowledgeable than myself and to whom I'm always grateful for replies and advice. Thanks lreed

[Junior1942]

When aluminum rusts it makes aluminum oxide which is almost as hard as diamonds. That's why aluminum cleaning rods wear out rifle bores if used from the muzzle. But an aluminum gas check is (1) painted; and (2) coated with lube so it shouldn't rust. So shoot to your hearts content.

Is this one of those eBay Charlie Darnell kits?

[Le Loup Solitaire]

In reading the posts that have shown up from time to time on making gas checks from aluminum, two issues are of concern and get pointed out. One is the fact that aluminum oxidizes and since aluminum oxide works well as an abrasive in the manufacture of sandpaper and grinding wheels, what will it do to a gun barrel? So some say its all a real bad idea, others say the amount of surface contact is not a big deal, and yet another opinion is that if you keep the gas checks in a little jar and away from air-then there is not much, if any, oxidation. the second issue is that the thickness of the aluminum that is used to make beverage cans is too thin. So aluminum flashing of a greater thickness has been tried and of course it works. Copper sheeting usually used for craft work has been tried, but I don't know the thickness or the cost. It has got to be better than the current price of gas checks sold by Lyman or Hornady. There are forum members who are wizards as machinists and talented lathe operaters and sooner or later someone is going to come up with the answer, at least for a die and punch that mounts in a loading press and can solve at least that part of the problem. And other members who know about metals and their properties can hopefully fill the gap on the oxide factor of aluminum and/or alternatives for choices of metals. It may take a lot of posts, but it'll be worth it. In the meantime it sounds like you have done a good job in taking on the problem with your 8mm. Good shooting. LLS

[felix]

As your pour fluxed aluminum, it rusts before it hits the mold. In other words, it is always rusted. ... felix

[DeanoBeanCounter]

One source of sheet metal might be a metal or specialty metal supply company. I used to work at one and they always had lots of scrap of all sizes.
Dean

[Pepe Ray]

or anyone more knowledgeable than I.
Doesn't electrolysis take place between dis-similar metals if they are good conductors?
Pepe Ray

[badgeredd]

Just had a thought (boy was it lonely!), why wouldn't brass shim stock work. One can buy it in various thicknesses and it would be close to the properties of copper. Gotta be cheaper than pure copper. Guess I'll look it up and see how much .010" shim stock is!

[felix]

Yes, PepeRay! In the books it is called a galvanizing current. The problem will not be severe enough to worry about with the lube in place. It will occur, but slowly. About like loaded ammo welding in a small town policeman's 38 special cylinder that has never been out of the holster unless used to kill a dog/cat run over by a car. How often does that happen? Once in 25 years according to my old town cop. ... felix

[castalott]

If you use too thin alum. for checks, run medium hot loads. Every one I have recovered has expanded out to groove diameter. That 'big light' behind the bullet has lots of energy available to force the check and bullet base out to groove diameter if you use the correct load.

If you can find food cans lined with 'teflon', you can cut the check so the teflon is on the outside. That works ok too....

[imashooter2]

I've seen ground straps that were many sheets of .010 copper fastened together on the ends so as to remain flexible (kind of like stranded wire). You might try scrap yards looking for some.

[floodgate]

On the aluminum oxide abrasion question, another take is that Al2O3, with other trace chemicals, is sapphire, and sapphires have been used as a wear-forever bearing material in clock and watch movements. The oxidation occurs almost immediately when fresh aluminum is exposed to air, and on a smooth surface like rolled or extruded aluminum it should be smooth and make a fair bearing surface. The Al2O3 abrasives are fractured and sieved "sapphire" crystals, and work quite differently. As to muzzle and barrel wear from Aluminum cleaning rods, I believe that this is due primarily to grit embedded in the relatively soft metal of the rods, and not to the metal or its oxide.

I'd not worry about the use of aluminum gas checks, EXCEPT insofar as the casting of boolits from Al-contaminated range scrap seems to yield problems similar to those seen in zinc- or copper- contaminated alloys.

But then, I don't pretend to be a metallurgist; Grumpy One, do you have any input on this issue?

floodgate

[castalott]

There is one bullet with a copper Hornady check and 3 with homemade checks...

[lreed]

Thanks for the replies,...to Jr The food cans I made mention of were coated,treated with something that did appear to limit oxidation,gold-brassy look,if a supply of this material could be obtained it might be the ticket, the flashing was just plain stuff, not even very shiney.The lube part I've thought on quite a bit,when you consider most engines have aluminum pistons and some even have aluminum cylinder walls,and they make millions of cycles. The check making die is of my work.
To Badgeredd..there are so many mixes of brass some very brittle and all brass I've dealt with is tough to cut with a punch,I've even explored the possibility of zinc foil, but that stuff they say will spontainusly ignite.
Castalott...great looking checks, What material,calibre and tool used if you would?
Thanks lreed

[castalott]

Hi Ireed!

The caliber is 30....the bullets are 311332's and 311041. The check material is the aluminum sheet used in the printing industry to make newspapers. I got a lifetime supply years and years ago which is good because they won't sell it to you anymore. Something about chemicals used with it now....A 2 foot by 3 foot sheet was $0.50 twenty years ago. It is a little thin but but works ok with full power loads. I've never tried reduced loads with it.

I have some that was used for a solar collector and was painted. I wonder if the painted side could be turned in to make the check thicker?

The tooling is homemade and actually quite ugly. There is a simple tool to make discs, a simple tool to form checks from the discs, and a simple tool to squeeze them on the bullet shanks without sizing the bullets.

I've posted it all here before with several piks. Maybe you can find it in a search....If not...send a private message & I'll send you all the info I have.

[looseprojectile]

I spent some of my youth as a precision sheet metal bench mechanic. The making of these tools to form cups is what we called shop aids. Fairly simple. Need to figure clearances and such for punches and dies. Many times a stock size punch can be used to make the blank. An old Wales Strippit fabricator machine would be useful. Punch and form in one shot like a machinegun. Would work in a loading press, though much slower.
I see no reason to not use SOFT STEEL for checks. It would seem that steel would be easier to find and less expensive. Lots of full length steel gas checks are used by the militaries of the world.
I will still buy my gas checks as long as I can get them. I just paid more than a nickel a piece for .50 caliber checks, nearly my limit!
Life is good

[leftiye]

How about a coating that we could spray and bake on (I've seen some teflon refinishes like that) the finished checks? Sounds like we aren't too far from taking the ridiculous cost out of checks. Almost all of the basic materials (and just about everything else) has risen to prohibitive levels (copper, brass, tool steel, etc.) when one wants to buy it in small end user type of purchases. Pure greed on the part of the economy dealing with the public I say. Don't we the people already support half of the earth? Biggest milk cow there is!

[porkchop bob]

Soft drink and beer alum cans have a protective coating on the inside. Palce the coated side on the outside of the GC. In fact all alum cans used to contain food are so coated. The road sides are littered with them. Where I live the trash cans at the beach access are over-flowing with alum cans.
Bob

[PatMarlin]

This may be a bit soon to announce this but I have a friend who is a fine machinist, that is going to offer a neat 2 peice gascheck maker tool for sale, that does not require a press.

It will be available for all calibers, and work with .010 copper, or alum beer can material. Beer cans are about .005, so you could use 2 per boolit, but some folks may even like to use just one.

He may even offer custom sizes. Most likely we'll run group buys per caliber when everthing is tried and true.

[bruce drake]

Pat,

Could you PM on the contact information for your friend and when you plan to come up on the Group Buy board. 30 cal to start.

Bruce

[DonH]

Could someone post pics of the tools sold on ebay? My shooting is of necessity a low buck operation. If I can give a friend something to look at, maybe he will make it for me.

[PatMarlin]

Pat,

Could you PM on the contact information for your friend and when you plan to come up on the Group Buy board. 30 cal to start.

Bruce

Bruce,

This will be a venture between he and I, and I will be handling all sales and inquiries.

You or anyone else can PM me with details, thoughts, etc.

Pat... :drinks:

I can't get back to PM's right away as I'm getting busy, but I usually can check my mail once a day.

[Duckdog]

I managed to find some sheet copper of all different thicknesses at www.whimsie.com/coppersheetwire.html. I ordered a 12" x 36" piece that is .030 thickness for about $18 and the same sized sheet of embozzing copper for about $12.

I find that one piece of the .030 crimps on good, as well as 2 aluminum beer can pieces and 1 piece of embossing copper formed into one check also crimps on good.

There appears to be no difference between the homemade checks compared to the store bought ones.

[PatMarlin]

Did you mean 30 gage instead of .030?

Cause 30 gauge equals 2 beer cans.

Also- .030 is almost double a Hornady gascheck thickness. Gators are about .017, at least the ones I have are and Gators are thicker than Hornady's.

[TRM]

I find that .012 or .015 brass shim stock works very well with all the tools I made so far.

[Jim]

[QUOTE..... a small town policeman's 38 special cylinder that has never been out of the holster.....[/QUOTE]

That depends on where said policeman carries his bullet, er...boolits!:mrgreen:

[Freightman]

I managed to find some sheet copper of all different thicknesses at www.whimsie.com/coppersheetwire.html. I ordered a 12" x 36" piece that is .030 thickness for about $18 and the same sized sheet of embozzing copper for about $12.

I find that one piece of the .030 crimps on good, as well as 2 aluminum beer can pieces and 1 piece of embossing copper formed into one check also crimps on good.

There appears to be no difference between the homemade checks compared to the store bought ones.
Went to the site and how many30 cal cks can be made with a 24"x24" sheet of copper?
And the medium is 30 ga. which is about right for cks.
I have one of the 30 cal from Ebay works fine except it takes time and I am lazy I use two of the al from soda cans, the bottom is better with it bieng twice a thick as the sides, and they are free and coated.

[NSP64]

I have gotten interested in making GC's (price of store bought and independance). I have looked at the one's on Evil bay and have wondered on their quality. I think I would rather buy one from Pat Marlin.:drinks:
(I'm an aircraft mechanic and might be able to get some .015 alum. sheet 4x8)

[jhrosier]

I have gotten interested in making GC's (price of store bought and independance). I have looked at the one's on Evil bay and have wondered on their quality. I think I would rather buy one from Pat Marlin.:drinks:
(I'm an aircraft mechanic and might be able to get some .015 alum. sheet 4x8)

I have one of the gas check makers from the evilbay seller, codarnall. It is well made.
Charlie was good about following up with a phone call and has offered to make another mandrel to fit my undersized mould.
There is probably room for another maker in the marketplace.
I am sure that Pat Marlin's product will also be well made.

I'm considering making one for myself. I would like to see if I can design and build one that mounts in my press and cuts and forms the check in one step.

Jack

[Boerrancher]

I have been needing a 30 cal GC maker. I have been watching Evilbay for codarnall to put up a 30 cal. I missed a 310 that he made because I was in brain dead mode. I need a 309, and didn't buy the 310 that he had thinking the checks would be loose on the boolit. I forgot that I have to seat the checks by running through a 309 sizing die. Geez I am such a Dumb a$$.

I still need a 30 cal check maker A.S.A.P. If someone can help me out in that area it would be great.

Best Wishes,

CPT T.

[Sig shooter]

I think the soda can gas check is a great idea . My guess is the alloy is "O" type aluminum , meaning soft pure material . It wont corrode if not exposed to strong acids or electrolysis from other materials .

A south American site lists aluminum gas checks for sale ( more $$ than copper ones ).

[badgeredd]

To lreed................


Thanks for the replies,...
To Badgeredd..there are so many mixes of brass some very brittle and all brass I've dealt with is tough to cut with a punch,I've even explored the possibility of zinc foil, but that stuff they say will spontaneously ignite.

I know what you are saying is true of a lot of thin brass sheets...but the brass "SHIM" stock is a semi-soft material that forms well in the thinner pieces. I say this as a tool maker that has used it for years in repairing older injection molds. Note I specifically mentioned "SHIM" stock. Last I checked it could be purchased from several tool and die supply houses. The thing I'm not really sure of is whether the cost would be reasonable. Anyway it is just a suggestion for your experimentation. I'd suspect that one could get a small piece to try for free at most any tool shop or tooling (molds, dies. and the like) repair shop or even some plastics molders have a small tool room that may have some. Maybe a local machine shop would have some on hand. Also since it is available in various thicknesses from .001 to .060 you'd have a variety of thicknesses that you could try. Like I said, just a thought.

[VTDW]

I have been needing a 30 cal GC maker. I have been watching Evilbay for codarnall to put up a 30 cal. I missed a 310 that he made because I was in brain dead mode. I need a 309, and didn't buy the 310 that he had thinking the checks would be loose on the boolit. I forgot that I have to seat the checks by running through a 309 sizing die. Geez I am such a Dumb a$$.

I still need a 30 cal check maker A.S.A.P. If someone can help me out in that area it would be great.

Best Wishes,

CPT T.

So contact Charlie as he may not have sold all he has.

[Boerrancher]

So contact Charlie as he may not have sold all he has.

Last email I got from him he only had the one 30 cal, and me being a Dumb A$$ I missed out on it. I guess I will have to wait for the next one to come up on Evilbay.

Best wishes,

[trickyasafox]

I have one of charlie's 30 cal GC makers- would someone be kind enough to try some of the checks out for me? I'm at school and have no access to a 30 cal GC mold or a rifle to fire them from yet. However I wanna start kickin some of these things out.

PM me if someone wants to try some free checks- alls I ask is that you tell me which thickness worked best so I can start making myself a decent supply.

[PatMarlin]

Well I know one thing, we won't sell a half **** tool that doesn't work well. Plus if there is a problem it will be replaced ASAP.

It will be tested by the best here at Cast Boolits, and when they give the full go ahead we will run with it. Non of this secretive ebay nonsense.

[trickyasafox]

big thanks to boerrancher for offering to help me out!

[Duckdog]

My bad guys... it's 30 gauge or .010". I also see that it's up to 24 bones a yard.
I also turned the bottom of the die on my tool to .287" or .288" to match the base of my 30 cal molds. The 30 gauge does very good, as does 2 beer can and one copper foil disks.

I can get good roof flashing locally for $9-$10 buck a 8" x 36" roll... if my memory is right.

I haven't figured out how many of these I can get out of a yard, but it sould be quite a few.

[lreed]

Hello: I have read with care all the replies,opinions and advice offered to my original post. The design and making a simple one-at-a-time tool for homemade checks ain't no big thing,I did it first try and can't even spell mechinest,the big thing IMHO is a design that involves quick,easy and accuracy. With quick and easy and a gascheck every pull of the handle you need carbide,or at least hardened tool steel for dies ect ect, all equals large money. Again Imho all value gained from HG-gaschecks is lost if,tools can't aquired at a very low price and the the stock to make them from for even less.
I did a quick figure on the copper stock listed from whimsey studio site mentioned in one of the prievous posts, if I figured it right, after the cost of the copper stock, the shipping and fumbleing, a .32 cal check would cost a bit under 2 cents vs a Hornady check from Shooter's Supply at smig over 2.5 cents+ shipping. Of course if copper stock was purchased large it would be cheaper,but then you'd lose you amature standing.
Aluminum is the only option that I see,and hope for one of them fellers with a bunch of letters after his name that don't spell nothing, to come forward and convince us that aluminum won't hurt a barrel,maybe even do it good.

thanks lreed

[PatMarlin]

The prices that link has are high. I already have a supplier that will beat that price, and the price goes WAY, way down with a large order.

We will either run a separate copper group buy, or incorporate it in the gascheck maker buy, but I think most likely group as I can negotiate a nice low cost for the the group.

As far as a real cheap ALA LEE priced gascheck maker die goes, forget about it. If a guy can make his own for that cost, or buy the ebay guys check maker that would be the best way to go for him, but I'm not getting into a situation where we loose our rear end, and can't keep up with sales and commitments.

I've been in business way to long for that nonsense, and we will not be doing onesee twosee eBay orders.

My goal is to produce one (1) check maker with a hardened- high quality punch that will produce a useable check for each caliber. NOT needing various sizes per calibers like a sizing die- .309, .310, .311, etc. One tool for 30 cal. One tool for 45 cal and so on.

Also- supply copper at a cost that will allow the user to make checks much lower in cost than buying ready made checks. The tool will be beer can friendly, for those that want to lower their gascheck costs even farther, and eliminate dependance on factory gas checks all together.

We will price it as low as possible... :Fire:

[kjg]

too cool i'm just waiting to order me one patmarlin. kjg

[GLynn41]

sounds good can not wait --or would rather not wait--.41 need soon-- I am ready to get in line-- where is the line?

[PatMarlin]

Haven't started the line yet, but it will be announced when all is ready to roll.

Our current design revision is now using a single stage press.

The work here as with any product is the die tool set needs to be quality and rather fabrication friendly, with material costs under control, and ultimately producing a quality gas check.

When all this comes together with a reasonable price folks here can live with, we have a winner!

I am confident we will make it happen... :drinks:

Patience grasshoppers.. :mrgreen:

[Boerrancher]

I had a simple tool made by a member of this board and I must say it works great. It is slow but, being disabled and having days where I can't get around well, on those days time is all I have. I found that a double thickness of an Aluminum can works well. I have also used some scrap alum. siding trim and that worked also, though it was a little thicker than I needed. They crimp well with my 309 dia sizing die.

Best Wishes

[Marlin Junky]

I'd be interested in a die (or die set) that creates a gas check out of thin copper or brass stock or aluminum beverage cans that I can use to check .35 caliber PB bullets. The cup needs to be much deeper than a typical Hornady crimp-on type check.

MJ

[Miner]

Impatiently waiting for one designed to work in a press for a 45LC...LOL

[jhrosier]

I just fired a couple of groups to campare the aluminum gas checks that I made with some Lyman checks. My gas check tool is made by Charlie Darnall.

http://images35.fotki.com/v1162/photos/5/590147/2786028/AlGC-vi.gif

Seems like they are going to work out just fine. The shank on my mould casts a little undersized and the first checks that I made did not fit tight. Charlie made me another tool that allows me to use three thicknesses of beverage can and the checks are now quite snug. I can't say good enough about how he has followed up on my original purchase and made sure that the tool suited my needs.

Now if I could just figure out how to get powder and primers for free....:smile:

Jack

[Boerrancher]

Free powder is easy. There are lots of places on the web and in books that tell you how to make every thing from Black Powder to Gun Cotton and Cordite. I have made a few batches of BP over the years and it works well. The drawback is all powders I have listed above or corrosive. If you don't mind corrosive save your old primers remove the anvil from inside the primer, and with a small punch smooth out the firing pin dent. Make a slurry of 50% Sulpher and 50% Phosphorus, place a small amount in the cup and replace the anvil. Let your reconstituted primer dry for a bout a week, and it is ready to reload. I have done this so I know it works, just make sure you clean your firearm real well after shooting.

Now you know how to have free powder and primers. Is it as good as what we buy at our local reloading supply store? The answer is NO, but will it work in a pinch, yes.

Best Wishes

[Ricochet]

Aluminum is the only option that I see,and hope for one of them fellers with a bunch of letters after his name that don't spell nothing, to come forward and convince us that aluminum won't hurt a barrel,maybe even do it good.
I've got a couple of letters after my name that don't mean a thing here. Main thing that convinces me aluminum gas checks aren't a problem is that Winchester has for years sold aluminum jacketed "Silvertip" bullets that don't seem to be ruining people's barrels. (I know a guy who had to shoot a burglar with a .45 loaded with those, and they did a number on the burglar, but that's another story.)

And if they produce aluminum fouling, I do remember from chemistry classes and practical experience that good old lye (sodium hydroxide) quickly dissolves both metallic aluminum and the hydrated aluminum oxide that results from its corrosion. Easy enough to put on some gloves and goggles and patch out the barrel with Liquid Plumber if necessary. I'm an old soapmaker, I can attest to the desirability of keeping lye off your skin and out of your eyes.)

[PatMarlin]

Impatiently waiting for one designed to work in a press for a 45LC...LOL


He's working on a 45 cal right now.




I'd be interested in a die (or die set) that creates a gas check out of thin copper or brass stock or aluminum beverage cans that I can use to check .35 caliber PB bullets. The cup needs to be much deeper than a typical Hornady crimp-on type check.

MJ


We will be offering custom dies like that, so this can be done MJ... :drinks:


...

[jhrosier]

Free powder is easy. ........ Make a slurry of 50% Sulpher and 50% Phosphorus,....

I was just kidding. I'm trying very hard to imagine driving around central Massachusetts with a bucket of phosphorus in the back of my Escort wagon.:holysheep

I will try to keep all of my "issued" parts intact, and just look for a source of cheap ready-made powder and primers.

Jack

[Rustyleee]

I tried doing a search on ebay for gascheck makers and didn't come up with a thing. Where are you guys finding them there?

[jhrosier]

I tried doing a search on ebay for gascheck makers and didn't come up with a thing. Where are you guys finding them there?

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcodarnallQQfrppZ50QQfsopZ32QQfsooZ2QQrdZ 0

[Miner]

He's working on a 45 cal right now.

And mine are in the mail, right?;)

[PatMarlin]

What do you mine up there in Kelso?

[Miner]

Lead...lol

Mostly I go to eastern Washington southern Oregon Idaho or Montana gold dredging but there are a few places around here.

[PatMarlin]

Bob Dahlke's (Dahlke Dredge mfg) a freind of mine, and I'm going to his shop in Sunnyside, WA this week to build 2- 7's and bring them back home.

[scrapcan]

Pat,

would you start a thread in the off topic with pictures of the dredges you guys build. I have some coworkers who would be interested in seeing pics. They are member sof hte prospecting clubs, but seeing pictures of others equipment is just like casting and shooting, the more you see the better off you are and it may keep you from buying the wrong thing.

[swabbie]

Pat...
I just started my christmas wish list and your gas check maker is at the top of it.
How about a pre manufactur discount to raise some funds when you get a better idea of costs?:-P

[PatMarlin]

Pre- mfg discount... the nerve! :groner:

....:mrgreen:


Sure will Manley. I was in that business in the 90's, and built much equipment.

Without a doubt the master is Bob Dahlke though. He builds fine tuned machines that are sold around the world, from gold to diamond and gemstone recovery.

His dredges will out suck, out recover, and flat out blow the competition away at 1/2 the horse power.

I am honored to be friends with and know him... :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

Building 2 of these hot rods.

I'm using 30' of 7" galvanized steel dredge hose. Includes Bob's unique dovetail riffles and tri-jet design. Each dredge will move 25-30 yrds per hour of material, with a 16hp Vanguard. Actually I'm running an 18 on one, and a 16 on the other.

There is nothing in the industry that will touch the production of these baby's, and even come close with the light weight and portability.

[Miner]

Nice looking dredge... By the way, you suck...lol

I have 3 of the older Keenes so not in the market right now, only allowed 4 inch here.

Mine still suck too tho probably not as well as yours ;)

If I get another I'll look into these.

[Miner]

Sorry 'bout hijacking the thread tho. Maybe we can justify it by telling how many lead boolits and sinkers we suck up.:!:

[looseprojectile]

Though dredging up a few pounds of gold is an interesting subject, I will get back to the issue at hand.
Has anyone thought about how sharp the base should be on a check? I can make them with a radius or very sharp and square. Which has been best for you?
I have seen some of my boolits with a sharp and square base come out,"recovered," that look like a flower petal, "shuttlecock"? Bevel base boolits don't so much.
I know I may be picking nits here but the benchrest bullet shooters seem to prefer sharp square bases on their projectiles.
That being said, most/all of the checks I have used had a fair radius on them.
With a choice, which would you prefer? For an example, a radius helps in seating. Is that the only reason for the rounded base?
Life is good

[Ricochet]

Radius doesn't matter when seating them the proper way, pushed through nose first.

I've never had any square-shouldered checks. It would be interesting to try. It would be a differentiating feature on the market, as the crimp-on design was when Hornady came out with them.

[VTDW]

Radius...just because I know they work.:-P

[PatMarlin]

I found this statement on Codarnall's ebay ads:

"FREECHEX (tm)* is my invention and method of making aluminum gas checks from discarded soda cans. The point of sale is strictly* eBay. Any other offering for* sale of this or likeness item is a copy or imitation. I manufacture and distribute these tools here* in Camarillo, California for* sale* in eBay's world wide market place."

Someone needs to tell Charlie, his gas check process and method was invented and designed a long time ago, and was sold by various businesses like the Hanned Line etc, not to mention Lyman and Hornady. LOL :mrgreen:

Now that's like saying he invented the single stage press... :groner:

[dlw]

hey pat,
Just like there's more than one patented mouse trap
Charlie's method, operative word here, may not have
been used or invented by anyone else. I don't think
Hornady/Lyman or Speer does it his way. Suppose!

Will your machinist-friend's new gas check tool be
like this one on ebay?
dave

[porkchop bob]

As a mental exercise, think about the conditions that have to exist for Charlie’s statements to be factually true. Then try to disprove them one by one. Then think about what he has said.
Bob

[PatMarlin]

hey pat,
Just like there's more than one patented mouse trap
Charlie's method, operative word here, may not have
been used or invented by anyone else. I don't think
Hornady/Lyman or Speer does it his way. Suppose!

Will your machinist-friend's new gas check tool be
like this one on ebay?
dave

Somehow I find your first post here suspect Dave. The writting style is somewhat familiar also... :mrgreen:

I do think very much the major manufacturers form gaschecks out of punched disks with male and female dies of some configuration. He uses a mallet. Big deal. Codarnall's (operative word) "Method" has been invented and used before.. :groner:

Well for one thing...

The process of creating a gas check is the same regardless of what material used, who makes it, and how they get it done. A disk is punched then formed by a male and female die, and used to protect the base of a cast boolit.

Hand tool dies sets like "Codarnall" (handle) sells on eBay using a hammer or mallet have been invented/established and sold on the market many times in the past, which accomplishes the same task as above, and functioned the same way as his does. The Hanned line Freecheck works the same as his does.

In case anyone feels I'm trying to move in on Codarnall's operation...

I suggested in past threads he offer his Freechex* (TM) :mrgreen: as a group buy here for members on cast boolits, and even offered to help him but he refused and was so bothered by the replies and questions he was getting in PM's, he cancelled his Cast Boolit membership and chose only to sell on eBay. Pretty much thumbing his nose at our Cast Booliteer brethren here.

To each his own.

His design is hardly original, and really a joke to claim it is. Our gas check die tools accomplish the same task as all of these described above, but is not a direct copy of Codarnall's.

If anything Codarnall's designs are a copy of others posted on various forums, if a person were to try and compare the process or method.

It's like copying a reloading press. They all work the same way. A punch, a male and female die. Holy cow, no rocket science here.. :roll: ...:mrgreen:


...

[45nut]

I suggested in past threads he offer his Freechex* (TM) as a group buy here for members on cast boolits, and even offered to help him but he refused and was so bothered by the replies and questions he was getting in PM's, he cancelled his Cast Boolit membership and chose only to sell on eBay. Pretty much thumbing his nose at our Cast Booliteer brethren here.

That,, is fact. I offered a sticky in our swapping and sales area and many other benefits to help him along and was rather shocked to see his request for removal and all posts of his to be deleted.
I had no prior knowledge he was bothered so by requests for direct sales, preferring instead to give a slice of his profits to a few billionaires instead of dealing with a dedicated customer base.

[Boerrancher]

I contacted Charlie through ebay with a ton of questions about his die set. He redirected me back to his ebay site. I contacted him again and said that I had read his site and had questions, that is why I sent him the email and nicely ask the questions again. One last time he sent me a link to his site, and I never went back. If he is gong to be that arrogant and treat his potential customers like that, it won't be long before he has none.

Best wishes

[Rustyleee]

Well at least he makes it easy to know who not to do business with.

[PatMarlin]

I found this quote of dlw's, uh I mean "codarnall" interesting... :mrgreen:


Fellas around the country have been bugging me to check out this forum. Not real good at this sort of thing. Actually this is a first. I'de been selling gas check making systems on eBay for about two weeks. The systems were designed buy myself at the behest of several custom die customers. I've sold all three systems like hot cakes on eBay. $20 -$22. The gas checks are make from aluminum soda cans. The idea came from the corporate knowledge of the two buyers plus about 400+ visitors. I am waiting for constructive feedback for the some 20 odd systems out there.
1) Stand-alone. A punch and anvil for 9.3 mm gas checks.
2) Users sizer die, top punch forming mandrel and aluminum disk holder.
3) A bezel locked on top of the sizing die LYMAN RCBS with a retaining nut to center the aluminum disk, and the bullet itself used as a mandrel, with a nylon bullet bezel guide to center the bullet on the disk.
4) Not yet developed yet, but will be a combination of 2. and 3 . tha is,a guiding disk bezel a top punch forming mandrel and a longer ejection rod for the users sizers die.

Corbin gas check stuff is $400. You folks have told me that you are "cheapskates". I've tried to keep costs down by keeping machine time down. System delivered so far are .308 .366 .429 .375 (38-55). One can see the three systems as "view item" under my eBay id which is "codarnall". I am away for the next week. I plan to offer these item again with mods in the next few days while we can on eBay, ie., we're getting kicked off, us "bullet tip folks".


Here's some further history if anyone cares to read through:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26557&highlight=codarnall


...

[Duckdog]

If I had a lathe, I would be making the same thing as the one I bought on e-bay. Your right, this is not a new design. I have to agree... I've never seen a person with such an interested audience shy away from almost gauraneed sales!

I like the product I bought, but codarnall is not the best with his people skills from the posts I read. I was almost afraid to ask him to make me a new die to better match the bullet base's diameter... so I did it myself on a drill press and a fixed file.

It sure is interesting to see the amount people looking to "roll ther own" checks. Nice to see I'm not the only titearse around!

[Miner]

It sure is interesting to see the amount people looking to "roll ther own" checks. Nice to see I'm not the only titearse around!

Naw , I'm so tight I squeak when I walk.:!:

[Miner]

Any word on progress on the press check maker???

[steif]

Hi,
I'd be interested in a couple different sizes when they get fired up,
.30 cal one for 7.7 jap/303 brit/7.62x54 same size boolit, and maybe a 45 cal for 45/70... that oughta take care of me...lol...

[PatMarlin]

Any word on progress on the press check maker???


Work is being done daily, and we are getting closer. I've come up with a great punching function that punches and produces accurate disks pretty darn fast, and that is with beer can material which is harder to punch out than the copper.

I believe our tool here will be the best offering that has been done by anyone to date.

A soon as we are ready, I will post pictures and use of our check maker dies, then we will send out a test set to a few other members here at CB to try and report their findings.

I'm also going to post a query thread on what calibers members here would like to start with, and own so we can get more info on the first group buy offering I will run.

[OeldeWolf]

I am hoping you will have the less common sizes, also, for those of us with the 303 brit, 7.65 argies, etc?

Not so tight I squeak when I walk, just not enough money to buy what I can possibly make myself And worried about availability of supplies here in the state of fruits, nuts, flakes, and idiots.

[PatMarlin]

Yep-

We will offer custom sized orders also... :drinks:

[quasi]

I am hoping you will have the less common sizes, also, for those of us with the 303 brit, 7.65 argies, etc?

Not so tight I squeak when I walk, just not enough money to buy what I can possibly make myself And worried about availability of supplies here in the state of fruits, nuts, flakes, and idiots.

every .303 mold I have takes .30 cal. gas checks.

[PatMarlin]

Here's a new thread in the "Group Buy" section on our Checkmaker:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=341538#post341538

Please feel free to chime in.. :drinks:

...

[alamogunr]

I don't know where this comment fits, but I seem to remember from a few years ago when the Hanned Line was selling Freechek (sp?) tools, that they were designed to fit NON-gas check boolets. As I recall, they were applied by forcing the plain base onto a disc of aluminum which was formed to the base and held on by the wrinkles. Does anyone else remember it this way?
John
W.TN

[Rustyleee]

You are correct sir,
Paco Kelly has written about his tool several times on his website at leverguns.com.
That was one of the features though, the ability to turn a non gas check bullet into a gas check bullet.

[toecutter]

So I feel as though I'm something of a late commer to this thread, but I've been working on some GC tools of my own. I have a duro machine 2-ton ratchet press I'm trying to set up to make gas checks on. The main question I have is making a check done as a single process, or as two steps. First cutting the disk, and then forming the check? I recently made some tools at work for cutting round washers out of brass... Took a fair amount of experimentation to get it right. They were made out of .005" brass shim stock, it was something of a pain to get it to cut correctly. When I started using drill-blanks for the punch it started working a lot more cleanly. The thinner material tends to buckle before it gets cut, so having a spring loaded collar on the punch made would hold the brass flat while it was being cut, and tended to prevent buckling.

[KTN]

This is my home made tool set for .458" gas checks.Mounted on press is disk punching die that cuts 0.512" diameter disk from 0.02"x0.59" copper strips.On table is gas check former "shellholder" and forming die with proper sized gas check shank,copper strips (old and used sheets where I cut these,but the price was right,FREE :mrgreen:),cut discks,formed checks and punched strips.Later on I will make other end of forming die to make .44 cal gas checks from these same .512" disks,with proper sized former "shellholder",kind of 2in1 tool.



Kaj

[Cap'n Morgan]

The main question I have is making a check done as a single process, or as two steps. First cutting the disk, and then forming the check?

It is certainly possible to make a gas check (or similar cup-shape) as single stage process, but it is not is feasible with the relative low quantum we are talking here.
Much easier to stamp out a disc and then draw it in a second operation.

[leuckj]

Hi Pat,

I am interested in the gas check dies in the following

.22 cal
.30 cal
.35 cal
.44 cal
.45 cal (would this be for .452 or .454)?

Can you let me know the status of this project?

Thanks,
Jim Leuck

[Yukoner]

Pat, just finished reading three threads on your new GC maker. No problem shipping to Canada, I presume?

How about making it for 9.3 and for 375, as well?

Ted

[PatMarlin]

Hi Ted,

No problem shipping to CA. We will be offering the set in all calibers as time progresses.

Welcome to cast boolit heaven! ..:drinks:

[PatMarlin]

Hi Pat,

I am interested in the gas check dies in the following

.22 cal
.30 cal
.35 cal
.44 cal
.45 cal (would this be for .452 or .454)?

Can you let me know the status of this project?

Thanks,
Jim Leuck

Hi Jim,

I missed your post.

You can check for updates here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=37972

Welcome to cast boolit heavento you as well! ..:drinks: