2400 and magnum primers and the 357 mag.

[JNG3]

Was given some new unopened 1 pound containers of Hercules 2400 from a friend. Went looking for primers today and all I could find was Fed Gold Medal small magnum match primers. I know in years past, mag primers were normally used with 2400. Now a days some folks seem to have a severe adversion to mag primers and 2400. Some even go so far as to say it's dangerous. My Lyman cast manual 4rth edition calls for CCI 550's for all 357 mag cast bullet loads. What gives? The revolver is an older GP100 is great condition. Powder is Herc 2400. Primers are Fed small pistol magnum match's. Bullets are the 170gr Lyman 358429. Manual calls for 9.7 grs to 13.5grs of 2400. Is it OK to use the mag primers? Yes I will start low and work my way up watching for any sign of trouble. Just concerned with all the internet chatter about "never use mag primers with 2400".

[jmort]

"I know in years past, mag primers were normally used with 2400.

No, Alliant specs regular primers. What past are you referring to? I probably missed it, but I don't recall mag primer load data for 2400. If it were me I would use them, but that is just me, you have to make your own decision.

[fecmech]

No, Alliant specs regular primers. What past are you referring to?
RCBS cast bullet manual recommended mag primers for use with 2400 in both the 38 spec and .357 mag. I'd use them also.

[chutesnreloads]

If that's the only primers you can get they'll be fine.Or you could wait until you find standard primers and save the magnums for something that needs them like H110/296.Primers don't seem to be all that hard to come by lately

[LUCKYDAWG13]

If that's the only primers you can get they'll be fine.Or you could wait until you find standard primers and save the magnums for something that needs them like H110/296.Primers don't seem to be all that hard to come by lately
I wish 2400 was not that hard to come by lately

[Bazoo]

I've shot a bunch of 2400 with both mag and standard primers. Never had a problem with CCI 550s. Is it "needed"...no. Do i prefer mag primers with 2400, yes. I feel like it gives better ignition, and burns cleaner. When I had a blackhawk, i liked 15 grains of 2400 with a 358156 GC, cci 550. The marlin 1894c liked it quite a bit too.

I dont feel comfortable shooting the above load out of the wifes 686. I have shot a few, but its uncomfortable and really too strong for the design of her gun. 13 to 13.5 grains of 2400 makes a nice medium load though, and i've shot a whole bunch of those with both mag and regular primers and dont really see any difference except with the heavier charges. Even with that, I do still prefer the magnum primers.

[jonp]

Ive always used mag primers with 2400 in my 357mag bh

[JNG3]

Jmort- older Speer manuals and the foremensioned Lyman manual and I believe I saw mag primers mentioned in the previous edition Lyman cast manual. Could be wrong as I don't own that manual, a friend does. The 49th edition Lyman reloading manual as well for both cast and jacketed.

[JWFilips]

I have tested both: No need for Magnum primers If you have a good load Large pistol will works as good

[JNG3]

JWfilips- where are you finding old 357 mag cases that take large pistol primers? Any modern 38spl and 357mag case I've seen takes small pistol primers. I'm sure that there is probably some oddball exception but.............

[JWFilips]

My Bad: I just meant :Standard Pistol ( Small primers) got the wording wrong

[jmort]

RELOADER'S GUIDEAlliant Powder Reload Recipes
Recipe(s)







Caliber
Bullet
Case
Minimum OAL
(inches)
Bbl Length
Primer
Powder
Charge Weight
(grains)
Velocity
(fps)
Notes


357 Magnum
110 gr Speer UCHP
Speer
1.575
6
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
19.5
1,670
-


357 Magnum
125 gr Speer GDHP
Speer
1.58
10
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
17.5
1,409
-


357 Magnum
135 gr Speer GDHP
Speer
1.59
6
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
16
1,377
-


357 Magnum
140 gr Speer UCHP
Speer
1.56
6
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
15.1
1,298
-


357 Magnum
158 gr Speer GDHP
Speer
1.575
10
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
14.8
1,265
-


357 Magnum
170 fr Speer GDSP
Speer
1.59
10
CCI 500
2400 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/2400.aspx)
14.5
1,166
-






Small Pistol 500
For most handgun cartridges requiring a small pistol primer.
550 Mag†
For heavy loads using ball propellants.

[jmort]

I did some checking, there are some manuals that do say mag primers, some do not. Alliant, the manufacturer, does not specify mag primers, they specify regular primers for 2400, for sure. You should be fine, but better safe than sorry, always good to ask when in doubt. I use nothing but regular primers with 2400. But if all I had were mag primers, I would go with that, but that is just me.

[azrednek]

Can't say from personal experience. A shooting bud that often pays more attention to his crony than the target. I don't recall the numbers but my friend claimed a remarkable improvement in the velocity using mag primers with 2400. He was shooting a Puma Rossi 44 mag rifle. He also claimed cleaner burning but the velocity increase was nearly insignificant in his 44 Ruger Blackhawk with mag primers.

I use mag primers if I happen to have them with 2400 for 357, 41 and 44 mags. Just for confidence I use mag primers in tried and tested self-defense handloads. I haven't shot through a Crony in years and have noticed absolutely nothing good or bad as far as shot strings using mag primers in handgun calibers.

Not jumping to far off subject. Years ago, late 70's or early 80's. I did see a remarkable improvement in the shot to shot accuracy using mag primers in a 308 Norma rifle. I was using a hefty load of the original Norma MRP powder. If I remember right using IMR 4350 powder. I don't recall any improvement with mag primers. My guess, the original Norma MRP powder. Not the stuff they sell today as MRP. Was likely harder to ignite.

If what I read years ago in Handloader Magazine is correct. Mag primers do not burn hotter or better said at a higher temperature than standard. Mag primers burn for a slightly longer duration.

[azrednek]

JWfilips- where are you finding old 357 mag cases that take large pistol primers? Any modern 38spl and 357mag case I've seen takes small pistol primers. I'm sure that there is probably some oddball exception but.............

Years ago at the range. Guy next to me said something along the lines like "I'll be dammed". He handed me a piece of 38 Special brass he just picked up asking me you notice anything strange about it. I didn't notice it until he told me. It had a large primer.

Been way to many years to remember the brand of brass. I do recall it was from one of the biggies like Federal, Remington, Winchester etc. My guess, some die hard hand loader. Either being an extreme cheapskate saving a piece of worn brass and/or having way to much spare time on his hands. Apparently reamed the primer pocket to take the large size primer. I wouldn't even want to speculate why somebody would go through the trouble.

[Outpost75]

Standard Winchester primers which have aluminum metallic fuel give same P & V as magnum primers of other brands without it. Magnum primers not necessary with current Alliant product, but not dangerous to use IF you reduce max. loads 5%.

[jonp]

Outpost75: How do you know which has the metallic aluminum? I assume the Large Pistol (WLP) which say "for std or mag pistol loads" are one of them but are there others?

They are a little more expensive but I have switched to buying the WLP for just this reason, to save shelf space.

[Hickok]

I have tested both: No need for Magnum primers If you have a good load Large pistol will works as goodSame here. I use standard primers in both .357 and .44 mag. with 2400. Last couple of years been using Winchester brand primers, and they are said to be a "hot" primer.

[Blackwater]

Many years ago, that inveterate old experimenter Elmer Keith, among many others, experimented with what primers gave best results in .357 and other calibers with 2400. They found best accuracy and results were usually obtained with std. primers, and more specifically in .357, with CCI SP primers. The differences weren't huge, but these were people who wanted the absolute BEST they could get. The differences weren't huge, but were there consistently enough that they established pretty well the advice to use std. primers in .357 with 2400. Using mag. primers in loads worked up for std. primers will yield higher pressures very consistently, but nowhere near enough to make the loads "dangerous" to shoot. They might stress the gun a little more, but if a good, modern one, it'd be very unlikely to be enough for even that. Max. pressures are FAR below what it would take to produce "dangerous" pressures. FAR below! They're based on not stressing or over stretching the alloys used in the guns, NOT on "dangerous" blow ups. Hope this helps?

[wrench man]

Don't know how many pounds of 2400 I've burn??, every kernel has been lit with a CCI 500 or 300.

[mfraser264]

Read an article in Handloader magazine a while back and the conclusion was in many cases magnum primers were not needed. This is a cost saver. However, the handgun and load have a lot to do in the decision. Load up a few of each and look at pressure signs, unburned powder in the barrel and accuracy and then go from there. Why does Winchester only make 1 large pistol primer? Something to think about.

[JWFilips]

The thing is; you do not need Mag primers to develop your loads with 2400 If you have them and want to use them please do ( but they are not needed)

[JNG3]

Thanks for the replies.

[Wayne Smith]

Years ago the advice was to use Mag primers. The testing was reshot with both normal and mag primers. This is in the 44Mag. They found that mag primers gave both higher pressure and much higher pressure variations. Speer changed their recommendation to standard primers in the 44Mag. I can only imagine the effect is magnified in the .357 cartridge. I'd stick with standard primers.

[Echo]

[QUOTE=Bazoo;3507116] When I had a blackhawk, i liked 15 grains of 2400 with a 358156 GC, cci 550.

Big Plus One!

[umwminer]

Used the 358429 over 13.0gr 2400 and cci mag primers for 40 yrs in my S&W pre Mod 27 357 mag . I still load it to this day .

[Lloyd Smale]

you surely don't need mag primers with 2400 but then they wont hurt a thing either. Id try both and see which shot better in your gun.

[Ricochet]

If you want to throw in another complication, I've read that IDSC and USPSA shooters loading .38 Super for Major Power Factor often have used Small Rifle primers. I wonder how the charges differ in Small Pistol, Small Pistol Magnum, Small Rifle and Small Rifle Magnum primers? They can't differ much in volume as they all have the same primer height/pocket depth and the small rifle primers supposedly have thicker cups to withstand higher pressures.