A new angle on starting 5.56?

[Scuffy]

Howdy guys. I've decided to slowly creep in, out of the woodwork,0000................ after spending over a year lurking.... Let's see if I can do this without upsetting the fine balance here. lol

When I joined the forum I was interested in learning to reload for my 1911. That got put on the back burner due to work. Technically all thoughts of reloading were put aside due to time constraints. Now that I have a bit more free time to consider which egg I want to crack first... I'm leaning towards the .223/5.56 arena- specifically the dreaded AR platform. Now before the groans begin and folks get fired up... I really have tried to read up as much as I could both here and on other forums. In all honestly I have not reloaded a single round so I cannot speak from any kind of experience. But because of that it's why I am here asking questions. From reading over the many threads available with the search function I have not yet arrived at what I consider a good starting point. Mainly being which darned mold to buy. Being a tinkerer and a fairly creative and inquisitive person I have absolutely no problems with starting from scratch and learning the finite details of the mold, the powder charge and all the details while developing a load that works for me. I'm excited about that part.What I am confused on or at least at a stand still on is which mold to pursue first? What do I want?

From the reading I have managed I have figured that most (not all, by any means!) that have switched to powder coating for any given caliber are quite happy with the results. From this I have gathered that gas checks in these situations are not as vital. This may vary per caliber or bullet style. I like the idea of powder coating as a step vs. adding a gas check. Not that one is any easier or faster or vice versa. Apples to oranges. I am looking for a good mold in which to use as a building block for an AR round. Something non gas checked if powder coating really is the way to go. Is the Lee .225 55 the way to go? The RCBS 22 055 sp 22? Some say that a gas checked bullet is fine when it is powder coated, the gas check not added, and loaded as is.

When it comes to powders I have tried to get a variety in brands and varieties while I'm out and about. Some day I would like to reload for all the pistol and rifle calibers I own and use but that's not in the cards as far as time goes at the moment. I have enough of the mainly recommended powders to provide any number of avenues to start from.

My intent is not for competition-worthy grouping. I am simply looking for a round that will be worth taking to the range and practicing drills and punching paper with. Live fire for training in which to build muscle memory and see semi-accurate results without getting too discouraged. I want something that will go down range and hit the target, do its job to protect me and that's it. I don't need sub MOA grouping at 1,300,452,543.55372 yards. I don't need all the frills. I just need something basic, that works. Because I have not reloaded or cast before I know that this post probably blatantly screams my inexperience to the four corners of the earth. But this is the best way I could think of to broach the subject. Everyone has to start somewhere!

So again... I humbly ask... is there a preferred NON gas checked bullet mold/style that can be powder coated in .223/5.56 (maybe close to 62 grain), used in a standard issue 16" AR and function on a basic level with an accuracy suited for live fire drills and for basic protection at 150 yards or less?

Thank you so much for reading through this loooooong Wednesday evening monologue! lol

Scuffy
*plate carrier and flame retardant suit on!*

[dverna]

Starting with cast bullets in the 5.56 is a really bad idea - especially if you have limited time.

First learn to reload, then try casting.

Don

[Bruntson]

When starting out, first focus on learning the craft of reloading factory bullets. Once you're are skilled in in reloading, you can start to learn the cast bullet craft. Each has a different set of skills and knowledge to master.

[geezer56]

I have been in about a 45 year progression on this reloading thing. I now load for about 30 calibers. First thing is find a mentor. That will reduce your learning curve tremendously. Pick an old guy that still has all his fingers. Sit and watch, and ask questions. Lots and lots of questions. Don't get bogged down in the technology thing. A Dillon is a wonderful thing, but it shouldn't be your first press. A single stage press, a scale, and a set of dies is about all you need to get going. A Lee hand trimmer is fine for that part of the chore. A deburr tool, and a caliper is nice but not absolutely required. Watch youtube videos but apply a common sense filter. Some of those guys posting are complete idiots. Learn to load jacketed first. I'm still a newbie on cast myself, only been at it for 20 years or so. Don't hurry, don't reload while distracted, and check everything as you go. TWICE. It ain't rocket science, but you do have to pay attention. And I personally would start with something other than a black rifle as a platform. Revolver or bolt gun would be the platform to learn on. They are more tolerant of mistakes. Drink the Kool-Aid.

[Rustyleee]

I won't disagree with what has already been said, but will add if low cost is your goal for 5.56 you might want to look for bullets listed as pulls or blems. These will be jacketed bullets, usually 55 grain. They work fine and will allow you to perfect your loading before moving on to casting.
Don't get discouraged we've all had failures. A lot of us had them before this big internet thing came around or was even thought of. When I started there was no such thing as a digital calculator. Never be afraid to ask questions here, there's no such thing as a stupid question.

Welcome to our little world.

[M-Tecs]

One of the nice things about the 223/5.56 is the low cost of components.

One of the Vendor Monmouth http://monmouthreloading.com/product/hornady-55-fmj-bullets/ have very good prices on 55 FMJ's. While this is a cast boolit sight I recommend what others have stated. Find a good reloading mentor and start with something like the 55 grain FMJ at 8 cent each. Standard 55 grain FMJ's are as basic and workable as it gets.

After you have learned the reloading basics and established a good performance baseline with the FMJ you can jump into casting 22 Cal boolits or for your 1911.

I would recommend starting casting for the 1911 first as you will see more of a cost savings with the 45 ACP?. The 45 ACP is an idea caliber to start with due to ease of achieving good results with cast.. Even folks with lot of casting experience can find 22 Cal rifle boolits frustrating at times.

[Scuffy]

Dverna, Bruntson, geezer56, Rustyleee and M-Tecs thank you all for the insight! When I had originally started purchasing bits and pieces for my reloading setup I did indeed get a single stage Lee arrangement. The Anniversary kit if I remember correctly. (It's been a while tho so I may be a bit off..) I also made sure to pick up a set of dies here and there while at shows. I have a decent variety of powders and a few molds- tho they are for pistol calibers. For my 1911 it will end up being .45 ACP as I have not made the move to the .22 conversion yet. Shoot I even have a hand full of the Lee Loader kits for a few calibers. I have even slugged many of my barrels and bought the appropriate sizing dies. All in all I have enough to get started- I just need to get off my butt and do it! :) I'm not adverse to starting off with jacketed rounds- especially in the .223/5.56 range, knowing how finicky they are. The only reason I was looking to entertain the idea is I have a decent amount of WW that a buddy had melted down into ingots and was going to just unload at the scrap yard... I couldn't let them go so I adopted them. lol

So it's advised that I still with stay the .45 rounds as a beginners foray into reloading? Not a problem. But while I am out at the shows that are in full swing around here- what would be a good mold for .223/5.56 to keep my eyes open for? I'd rather pick something up and be able to have it when I want it- down the road, rather than not have it at all. I still see a lot of recommendations on the two I mentioned in the first post. NOE is brought up quite a bit as well. I'm not trying to start a Ford/Chevy/Dodge debate, I understand there are many variables from the guns all the way down to the brass selection, the powder and even the alloy content of things. I'm just looking for a mold that will be a decent place to start from, when I do delve into the .22 rifle arena, and work up from.

[upnorthwis]

My experience is that PC does not eliminate the use of a GC on the 223/5.56.

[Doby45]

That decent pile of WW alloy will go rather quickly when you start casting 45cal boolits. I would not even entertain the idea or spend any money on casting or shooting 22cal boolits in an AR platform. I have cast for a few years and number of different calibers and have loaded 20+ years. Still to your FMJs for the AR.

[Electric88]

A lot of great input here! I started out reloading on 223 in an ar15 platform, using jacketed bullets and not casting. It's got a few more steps than loading for straight wall pistol brass, but overall wasn't terribly hard. Read, read, and reread some reloading manuals and ask a ton of questions. It also helped me by getting together with another reloader and watching him. I've only been reloading for a couple years, and am just now starting to get into casting. I don't know how hard it would be to cast the 55gr boolits (I'm sure not the easiest) but trying to powder coat them and stand them up would definitely be a challenge and probably require fixturing. Keep learning and always pay attention to each step of the process and you will do great!


Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the zero brand 55gr jacketed bullets from Roze distribution? Those also look like a decent option at a good price, though the price from Monmouth on the Hornadays is excellent!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Scuffy: I would recommend learning how to load first, then learning how to cast boolits. And I would also recommend learning how to reload .45's before the .223's.

The reason for this is simple. The .45's are much easier.

I would recommend buying a Lee Classic Loader kit and starting from there. This will teach you the basic steps of reloading in the simplest and least expensive way possible.

After you master the Lee Loader then you could bump up your equipment list with a press and various accessories.

What I am advocating is starting one step one,,, Which is the best place to start. You will be a more competent reloader by doing this.

Randy

[newton]

I'll concur that the AR would be hard to dive into.....however.......I'm one of those guys who likes big challenges like that.

Reloading is reloading. You'll probably find it easier to be successful(rounds that do what you want, when you want) faster with larger boolits, but it just takes more work and attention to detail with smaller ones. No magic or anything. The one thing you have to do is be determined. If you decide you want to load for the AR, then do it, but understand you wont be able to slap them together.

Either way, don't be afraid to ask questions even if they have been answered before. Times change, and the same question may have new answers and thoughts that were not available even a year ago.

I do not load for the AR at this time, but I do for the .223. I honestly thought it would have been harder to find a decent load than what it took me, but I am not complaining. Soon I'll be working on the AR platform if my brother wants, so I'll be able to help there.

As far as powder coating is concerned. It does not replace gas checks at all. Only lube. I believe, but only have limited experience, that any boolit in the 55 grain range, would be fine to start out on. Faster twists can handle longer/heavier boolits, slower twists lighter ones. But I am pretty sure 55 is good all around for any twist.

To function the rifle, and have decent accuracy, you'll have to look at the slower burn powders. In other words, one thing you'll need to do is get a manual, cast bullet manual, and look at the slower burning powders. If it were me, and what I plan to do, is start with H4895.

Anyways, lots to learn. But first your going to have to be completely decisive as to what your going to pursue, then start pursuing it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I agree with others, that starting with 223/556 is kinda stepping into advanced castboolit reloading and it would probably be better to start with 45acp.

BUT, with that said, lets talk about 223/556 anyway.
First, it's fairly challenging to get good groups without a GC on a boolit. Think 8 to 10 MOA instead of 2 to 3 MOA.

Second, casting for Rifle, in general, requires more perfect and concentric boolits, since typically the shooter demands better accuracy at longer distances then with pistol. So the boolits you cast need to be as perfect as possible...I tend to reject any visual defect, whereas Pistol boolits shoot just fine at close range even if fillout isn't perfect, or they are a little wrinkly.

There is more...I'm running out of time, back to work I go.

[Schrag4]

I've only been doing this about half a decade and I agree with both of these:
- Learn to reload pistol before you learn to reload rifle, because pistol is easier/has fewer steps.
- Learn to reload with jacketed then plated projectiles before learning to cast your own.

If it takes 10 "brain units" to reload for pistol with jacketed/plated projectiles, it takes about 100 just to get started in casting, and about 1,000,000 before you're truly an expert. Start with the easy stuff first. Assuming you get a safe amount of powder into the pistol case (not too much and not too little) and you don't seat the projectile too deeply, it's very hard to screw up in a way that's dangerous. With casting you can severely burn yourself or poison yourself or others relatively easily. It's not that it's hard to avoid, it's just that there's a lot more to learn and it's much more important to know before you begin.

That's just my experience as someone pretty new to casting and somewhat new to reloading (I don't even reload for rifle yet, although I've toyed with the idea).