To micro grove or not???? Marlin 45-70

[Outer Rondacker]

Guys I have a chance to pick up a 45-70 in a marlin full size lever(22"barrel). Condition is good and I think the price is ok ($459). It is an older pre safety model. Only thing I am not sure about is the Micro Grove barrel and cast bullets. Now I have read post after post and I just can not get a FACT for an answer. Does a micro grove barrel play nice with cast bullets? What Lee mold works well for the 45-70 if any? Should I steer clear of a micro grove barrel? I am new to 45-70 round all together. Advice welcome and as always thanks in advance.

[bikerbeans]

Micro groove and cast are fine IF you load the correct diameter boolit for your rifle. Many of the marlin leverguns require a bit larger diameter because the groove diameter is on the large side.

BB

[Kestrel4k]

[...] Now I have read post after post and I just can not get a FACT for an answer.
That's because this is the Internet. ;)

[Edward]

My 1895 pre safety shoots most any 300 to 420 grain lyman/ Lee/ Noe as long as they are sized .459/460 very accurate lever gun,buy it you will like it. And fun developing loads ,mouse fart to thumper ,it"s a long winter and the list of powder/boolit combos is endless ,love 45/70s

[longbow]

I had a 1970's vintage Marlin 1895 with microgroove rifling and it shot cast boolits just fine. I didn't even know back then that I should slug the bore. I just shot as cast and got very good results using both the Lee 405 gr. flat point and Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose.

I must have lucked out and gotten a "normal size barrel or moulds that cast as they should in my opinion, a little oversize so they can be sized back as required.

In my case, they shot well as cast and hand lubed.

Also, I tended to load as hot as the gun would handle and had no leading problems with PB boolits.

.45-70 is an excellent round with loads of moulds and data available. Even at factory/BP equivalent loads it is a potent round but can be hand loaded pretty much to your recoil limitation.

Buy it and enjoy!

Longbow

[Foto Joe]

Last year I developed a load for my '94 44 Mag using plain base cast boolits. Getting the correct boolit/powder/charge combination took some work but that's all part of the fun. Personally I'm not a fan of Micro Groove barrels simply because they DO NOT like Black Powder at all but if you're shooting nothing but smokeless there's nothing wrong with them.

[Crawdaddy]

I have one in 45-70 and 1 in 450 Marlin and get good results from both.

[Shawlerbrook]

That is a very fair price in this neck of the woods.

[Maven]

Outdoor Ron...., Look at the targets in this thread, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?296655-Ya-ll-Ain-t-Gonna-Believe-This. Mine was shot with a Microgroove #336.

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks guys! I think I will head to the shop in the morning. See if I can work out a deal on the brass that came in with the gun. I will keep you guys posted. I hope pic's are to come if it's not sold already.

[blikseme300]

The myth that micro groove cannot shoot cast is worth less than a wooden nickle, the fact is that no under-sized CB shoots worth a hoot. Yes, MG needs larger than expected diameter CB's but so what? It is the nature of the beast.

[longbow]

Foto Joe:

I shot loads of BP in my old Marlin with microgroove rifling and had no problems whatsoever with it. Just make sure you clean up well after shooting! I suspect if one let BP start corroding microgroove rifling it wouldn't be rifling for long, but like i said, I shot loads of BP through mine with nary a problem.

Wishing I still had the gun but it was a casualty of my need for money to go to school many years ago. I just never replaced it.

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

I think at one point I had something like seven Marlin 1895's in 45-70 . Of which one was a circa 1978 Micro Groove gun . I used it with a Ranch Dog 460-350GC bullet to knock over one of the better whitetails I've killed .

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Deer/DSCN0421.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/6pt-sika/media/Deer/DSCN0421.jpg.html)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/Deer/DSCN0420-1.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/6pt-sika/media/Deer/DSCN0420-1.jpg.html)

FWIW my first sizing die for the 45-70 was .459" and that's what I used for that deer and it shot very well . Later I went to a .461" sizing die and my groups shrunk a touch .

[Outer Rondacker]

That one nice buck. Only four hours till the shop opens. You guys will know by the end of the day if I am mould shopping for 45-70 or not.

Shawlerbrook you know what is going on with this state at the moment. If it is not a pistol or black gun it is being sold. Good time for us casters to pick up some nice deals on older rifles and shotguns. My lgs is flooded with used shotguns, black powder rifles and 22s.

[flint45]

Mine all shoot fine my mico groove barrel 95 .45-70 is very accurate with 300gr. 375gr. 405gr.and 420gr gas check or plain base it shoots them all well mico groove not shooting cast is a myth!

[wv109323]

As stated the MG barrel is accurate with the right size bullet. But the molds and sizing dies for .459 or .460 or .461 might be a little harder to come by. Also when you get a big enough bullet you may need to address the neck sizing of your cases. Some reloading dies are toleranced for jacketed bullets and resize your "fat" bullets.

[6pt-sika]

But the molds and sizing dies for .459 or .460 or .461 might be a little harder to come by.

Nope .459 are made by Lyman and RCBS . Buffalo Arms makes a .460 as well as the .461 which happens to be where I got the die I have now . Might add I also got a .433 die for use in my 44 MAG / 444 .

[Outer Rondacker]

Thank you all for the great posts. I have been holding off to reply to my own thread to find out what is going on with the rifle. I headed to the shop first thing yesterday morning and walked to the counter with a smile on my face gun in hand. I will not give names just yet or the name of the shop but one of the new workers takes the rifle from me. He starts to get out the paperwork and stops. Looks at me and says that cant be rite. I said what cant be? The price he states! Long story short I will know today at 1pm if I can buy the gun for the tagged price or not. I have to state I HATE THIS SHOP and have for many years. I have watched them sell AR's to first time hunters and 44mags to woman getting a pistol permit that have never shot a handgun. Ok sorry i almost started a rant.

That put behind me I stopped into another shop on the way home, this one much smaller.I saw an older marlin in 35 rem for 397.97. I picked it up and ask if it has any wiggle room? Got my answer and what I am getting at is one way or another I will be bringing home a new lever today. Pics to come. Will it be a 45-70 or a 35 Rem, you never know it might even be both. Wish me luck.

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like you win either way. I have both, RD designed boolits for both that do the job quite well for me. I've had no problems getting accurate groups with CB's in the MG barrels in 35 Rem and 30-30.

[Outer Rondacker]

One out of two but the day is not over. This is the 336 in 35 Rem. In decent shape for what I paid. Think I will refinish the stock after I empty some brass in it. I only have six 35 Rem shells. Oh well six is better then none.

[TXGunNut]

Looks good to me, then again I'm a sucker for leverguns in general. Good luck on the brass quest. If all else fails buy a few boxes of factory loads or have Grumpa make you some. This cartridge is easy on the brass so a few will do.

[Outer Rondacker]

Looks good to me, then again I'm a sucker for leverguns in general. Good luck on the brass quest. If all else fails buy a few boxes of factory loads or have Grumpa make you some. This cartridge is easy on the brass so a few will do. Not a gun shop or dealer with in driving distance has a shell for sale.(35rem) Good news is its gun show season in the next few weeks. No Grumpa's left here. Guess I will have to do it myself, but that is ok it wont be the first time. :}

[GRUMPA]

You feel your up to the challenge of making your own 35Rem?

Here's a thread on how I make them: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276255-308-to-35-Rem-done-my-way&highlight=

[Bardo]

Grumpas brass is great stuff. I found it was slightly more accurate for me then r-p 35 rem brass. But you will want to back of the charge about 5% because it is a 308 there isnt as much case capasity. I didnt lose any velocity. I was using LVR for powder.

[Outer Rondacker]

You feel your up to the challenge of making your own 35Rem?

Here's a thread on how I make them: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276255-308-to-35-Rem-done-my-way&highlight=
Ah Grumpa. He got me. Grumpa was not short for my grandpa. LOL Thanks for the link. Ok I checked out the link and NO I am not up to making my own. I might be up to buying some from you. :}

[GRUMPA]

Ah Grumpa. He got me. Grumpa was not short for my grandpa. LOL Thanks for the link. Ok I checked out the link and NO I am not up to making my own. I might be up to buying some from you. :}

Just click the link I have in my signature, then the 35Rem thread, then scroll down for pictures..

[10x]

The myth that micro groove cannot shoot cast is worth less than a wooden nickle, the fact is that no under-sized CB shoots worth a hoot. Yes, MG needs larger than expected diameter CB's but so what? It is the nature of the beast.

You nail it. I remember gun rag writers who used cast Bullets sized to 0.308" in micro groove 30-30 rifles then claiming micro groove doesn't shoot cast. The folks at Lyman hold some responsibility for this myth too as their manual tells you to slug the bore but the load data shows Bullets sized to nominal bore diameter. Few folks read the front of the manual. Or they forget what they read there.

When I reload cast for microgroove I use the largest diameter that will easily chamber. I learned this by accident when I inadvertently sized Bullets meant for a Marlin 30-30 in a 0.311 size die about 35 years ago. Group size dropped from pie plate to a jagged hole

[higgins]

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin-MicroGroove.htm

I followed the advice in this article and got good results with bullets cast of plain wheelweight metal cast about .001 over groove diameter with a gas check in place.

[Foto Joe]

That's a very informative article. I think that the one thing that the author neglected to mention is that shooting cast projectiles is more of an art form than in a science, yes there are certain "rules" which we follow but when it comes down to it, experimentation and data collection is paramount.

I just recently got a sample pack of GC's from Vulcan for my '94 44 Mag and a new mold (429215). I took it out yesterday with the identical load that I use for that weight boolit from a Lee mold and expected similar results, no dice. I will say that the GC boolit left a real purty clean bore though. Now it's on to the experimentation and finding the right combination for this particular boolit, at least with the GC I'll have more options on powder.

[Outer Rondacker]

Higgins thank you for the link. That is some good reading know mater how long you have been loading. Thanks.

Foto Joe - I feel you have a fun road ahead. My older marlin MG in 44mag was a bit of a bear to get figured out. I just kept going larger and larger on the size until I had a clean bore and it grouped well. I had more issues getting lighter bullets to group then I did with a bigger meat plant. Good luck and dont forget the tape trick if you want to try a fatter bullet without changing the mold.
I am still working on getting the 45-70 from my OP but will not pay more then what was on the sticker. Time will tell.