Nervous-- could use an opinion

[Hick]

All the CB loads I have used so far have been slower powders with relatively full cases. This means I've been taught to never go with low case fill for fear of detonation. I'm making a start now on lower velocity loads. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd edition says I can use 9 grains HERCO or 6 Grains 700X as a safe starting load in my 30-30. This means case fill of less than 40% in my 30-30. All the threads I've read say fast powders are OK like this without fillers-- but I've never tried it before. Does the current thinking and experience still support those Lyman loads? Do I have to worry about raising the rifle to position the powder before firing?

[jcren]

I use 10 grains of unique for 3006 plinkers with no filler. I haven't chronoed that load, but I see no appreciable poi change at 50 yards, regardless of point up or down.

[leadman]

Those would be minimum loads for sure, but have not been known to cause any problems. I have been using "fast" powders in rifle loads for about 35 years with no problems. If you are going to load light amounts of fast powders develop a method of charging the cases that will prevent any double or triple charges finding their way into a case. I charge and seat the boolit before going to the next case.
Fillers should not be needed. I do not worry about raising the gun up to get the powder to the rear. When shooting off my rest I single load most of the time so I pick up the case with the base down and then slide it into the chamber. I try to do it the same way ever time.

[freebullet]

One of my low powered 3030 plinker loads is a tl150pb over 5-6gr of tight group. Modern smokeless powders don't detonate that I'm aware, explosives detonate not gun powder. I've never seen any conclusive proof that's occurred. There are some powders that shouldn't be downloaded, but I'd not have an issue using published lyman data. Start at the start, have fun, & be safe.

I imagine 50-60% of folks favorite cast load here isn't in a manual.

[longbow]

There are several slow rifle powders that are not to be used in reduced charges due to possibility of a SEE (secondary explosive effect). I don't think it is detonation that occurs but effectively a barrel obstruction from the initial burn starting the boolit into the barrel then pressure dropping off then a re-ignition with the boolit part way down the barrel.

There are others here with more specific details on SEE. Larry Gibson I believe has the whole story. A search should turn up several threads and lots of info on the subject.

Fast pistol and shotgun powders do not have the problem so are safe to use. Any book loading will have been tested and proved safe though some powders may be position sensitive so the tipping the barrel up or down before shooting to get consistent ignition may be required with some powders... though I doubt Lyman would list those in manual if velocities varied by much.

Longbow

[rintinglen]

I don't suppose that I've shot more than 10,000 of those loads (8.0 grains Unique/Herco with a 90-110 grain boolit) from my 30-30's. For a couple of years, I was loading 400 a month. The big danger is a double charge, not a Secondary Explosion Effect. 16 + grains will likely bend your old lever gun. To avoid such shenanigans, I use a flashlight to check every case after charging it with powder. I put them in a loading block and compare each to it's neighbors. Any that don't look right get dumped and refilled. But other than that, no problems.

[newton]

When I first started casting I did so with my 30-30. I also couldn't find Unique, so I used herco. I forget the load, but published loads are just fine.

[bedbugbilly]

As mentioned . . . . do a search on what Larry Gibson has posted on this.

I am no "expert" . . all my experience so far has been with my 1907 Danzig GEW98 8mm Mauser. I use it at 50 yards for plinking with light loads. I am using a 115 gr., a 130sh gr and a 175 gr (Lee) lead boolits. I've used Unique, Bulls Eye and Red Dot in lighter grain weights - working up loads from 5.0 grains on up. The best load I have come up with for my rifle is the 130ish grain FN lead boolit over 8 gr. of Red Dot. At 50 yards, it works great. I am now getting ready to do light loads in 30/30 under lead boolits and will start out with Red Dot.

I use Bulls Eye a lot as well as Red Dot in 9mm and 38 special (as well as 38 Colt Short & Long). I know a lot of folks worry about "double charges" and "case fill" . . . I don't. I am careful when loading and make sure I don't double charge. Not hard to do on pistol loading on a turret with a powder measure attached to the powder through die.

Rifle cartridges? I use loading blocks One on the left side of my bench with primed/prepped casings. I take a casing and place it in a single place loading block in front of me - weigh out the charge (8 gr. ro example of RD of my 8mm) and dump it in the casing - then it goes to the loading block on my right. When that block is full of charged casings, I seat a boolit, put a light crimp on it and it goes in a plastic box. IF I have a doubt on the charged casing, I dump and start over. The tricks to PAY ATTENTION when you are loading.

8 gr. of Red Dot (or even less grain weight) does not come close to filling a 8mm casing. I don't sue any filler. Folks sometimes worry about "powder position" but I have never had a problem with any of them going bang and shooting accurately. The powders I use (RD, BE, Unique as well as others) are listed in my 2nd and 3rd edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and my only major concern when using lighter "cat sneeze" loads would be a "squibb" . . but again, pay attention to that just as you would pay attention to making sure you don't have double charges.

Some may disagree but so far it has worked fine for me in what I'm doing. YMMV

But Larry Gibson has some good information on such things so check him out and go from there. He DOES have the experience.

[GhostHawk]

I use a lot of Red Dot, some as light loads in rifles. Like bedbugbilly I have a specific sequence for powder filling.

Cases start primed, upside down in the loading block. Never ever pick up a case which is right side up.
I have my powder measure mounted on a bench and use a drawer below it to hold my block.

While I have done it with a single block I prefer to use 2, left to right, upside down to right side up.
Check powder levels before moving on to bullets. If any doubt whatsoever, dump, blow, verify clean, empty, refill.

I have used 3 lbs of Red Dot in the last 18 months. Average load around 4.5 grains. Number of problems = zero.

It is serious business, a double charge can destroy a classic firearm and you with it so take it serious. Be a bit methodical.

Make good positive loading habits, don't rush.

[atr]

The big danger is a double charge, not a Secondary Explosion Effect. 16 + grains will likely bend your old lever gun. To avoid such shenanigans, I use a flashlight to check every case after charging it with powder. I put them in a loading block and compare each to it's neighbors

I use this same method and its a MUST when loading with fast powders and light charges.

[Hick]

Wow guys! Thanks for all the fast replies. I'll go out and test the loads now. Also-- good advice on watching out for double charges. I always transfer each case from one loading block to the other as I add powder and then shine a flashlight down in the cases to be sure they all look right before seating the bullet.

[M-Tecs]

All Does the current thinking and experience still support those Lyman loads?

Yes, Since 1970 I have loaded over 60 pounds of Unique mostly into 45 Colt and 45/70 without any issues. The chrono will show some velocity difference based on position but at 100 yards or less you will not see anything on the target.

[Mitch]

I have track lights I my loading room with 4 lights on the bar.It is very easy to point any of the lights on the bar where you want them.You can see into most cases this way.I have one pointer where I charge my cases and one where I seat the booloits.This way I look at them 2 times before finshing them up.Have fun and be safe.
Bob

[Bagdadjoe]

Charge one case with your powder. Put a dowel just small enough to fit in the case mouth and drop it to the bottom of the charged case on top of the powder. Mark the dowel at the case mouth. This will show you the depth of one charge.
Cut the dowel a couple inches above the mark. You now have a gauge for that particular load and case. Same principle as marking your ramrod on a muzzle loader to make sure your charge is fully seated.
A double charge should be obvious on charged cases. You might want to make a new dowel for each session or just put a label in it. Won't do a bit of good if you don't know what it is.

[Hick]

Went out this afternoon and shot off a few test loads, 9.0 gr Herco under 165 gr CB and 6.0 gr of 700X under the same-- both worked very nicely. As soon as weather gets a little better I'll take out the chronograph and get some good data-- but all your advice worked out well.

Thanks

[220]

The other option is trailboss, no real advantage other than giving much higher load densities and eliminating the chance of a double charge.

[hydraulic]

I put the case in my funnel upside down. I KNOW there is no powder in the case. Throw the powder charge into the upright funnel and from then on that case never leaves my hand until the bullet is seated in the case.

[jugulater]

Ive been using 700X in plinker loads for all my military mausers for about a year. i had received a big metal jug of the stuff about two years ago from a relative that had just got out of Trap shooting, and it sat unused and unopened on the shelf for a year 'till my supply of SR7625 burned up.. the stuff burns decently clean at low pressure levels, much cleaner than SR7625, and i havent experienced any funny stuff with any of my loads.

as others have said develop a method, and always double check, a double charge isnt going to be fun no matter what powder youre using.

[Outpost75]

A really good online reference for reduced loads with the faster-burning pistol and shotgun powders:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[typz2slo]

This has already been mentioned above. I use 8.5gr of Reddot with a powder coated boolit in my 30-30. Its acurate cheap and a little over 1200fps. It smokes pretty good with traditional lubed boolits but no smoke with powder coat.