Purchase selection??

[buggybuilder]

My son called me last night and said he wanted to purchase a handgun. He wants something in a semi-auto that is not a .22 LR but is still affordable to shoot (I will get him into casting). My thought would be a Springfield 1911 in a 9MM. Do these shoot cast bullets well? Any thoughts on Ruger or other manufacturers (Not Glock) that would handle cast bullets well?

[straightwall]

I have an all-steel 9mm CZ 75B on layaway to replace one I sold years ago. It will shoot lead and it is an easy shooter. I can't wait! So... Maybe look at a CZ. [emoji4]

[PerpetualStudent]

As a disclaimer: I'm very new to this world and have little real world experience.

That out of the way, my plan based on my reading is to try casting in .45 acp when I start trying to feed a semi-auto. Choosing an older slower bullet seems to lend itself to casting -- I'm sure more knowledgeable people will chime in and correct me on that. Of course I also want to share molds to cast for .45LC because that efficiency appeals to me.

[MtGun44]

Another vote for the 1911 in .45 ACP. 9mm is THE MOST PITA to load with cast boolits of all of the
normal cartridges. .45 ACP is the EASIEST, if you taper crimp as a separate operation with an
old style taper crimp die which has a short TC section, not the newest ones with a continuous smooth
taper from one end to the other. Lack of or inadequate TC is the most common and simplest to fix
issue with .45 ACP ammo in a 1911. Load a H&G 68 (Lee is making what appears to be an accurate
copy, FINALLY) 200 SWC to 1.250-1.260 LOA, TC as a separate operation and you will be happy and
it will be dead reliable and accurate in most any new manufacture 1911.

Bill

[redriverhunter]

I have loaded for a Springfield xd 9mm. I will say the 9mm in cast can be troublesome to reload.
rrh

[straightwall]

Does the XD have standard rifling or does it use polygonal rifling?

[Fishman]

+1 on the 9mm beinga pita to cast for. A .40 has the advantage of lots of cheap brass available everywhere. It is easier to shoot than a .45 for new shooters and the recoil intolerant.

[dragon813gt]

If he's buying a 1911 get a 45. If it was a striker fired pistol then get a 9mm. The 9mm can be a pain to cast for. But it's still doable. 45acp is one of the easiest rounds to cast for. No matter what be prepared to throat the barrel. The throats are almost nonexistent on new production pistols.

[pergoman]

Until he gets into casting I would suggest a 9mm. The factory ammo is half the price of 45's and a little more than double what 22's are selling for but a heck of a lot more bang for the buck. 1911's are great for guys who shoot a lot but again I would not recommend one for a guy's first centerfire handgun. Low capacity, a safety to remember to disengage in a panic/self defense situation, and heavy weight are all reasons to pick a plastic double stack gun like a Springfield XDM. More accuracy than he can appreciate until he hits high master status.

[mozeppa]

i have the springfield in 9mm ....ditto on hard to make cycle reliably.

[Wayne Smith]

Only if he is wedded to the caliber and the idea of a semi auto. I'm old enough to be a revolver fan because I'm tired of bending over to pick up brass. I'm tired of chasing brass. I'd rather open a revolver and dump the brass on the bench in front of me and put it back in the case.

38 Special and 357 Mag are easy to load with lead.

[redriverhunter]

Does the XD have standard rifling or does it use polygonal rifling? hate to say I dont know
rrh

[Markbo]

Standard rifling.

[redriverhunter]

[QUOTE=Wayne Smith;3499813]Only if he is wedded to the caliber and the idea of a semi auto. I'm old enough to be a revolver fan because I'm tired of bending over to pick up brass. I'm tired of chasing brass. I'd rather open a revolver and dump the brass on the bench in front of me and put it back in the case.

this is the truth for me too. I shoot the revolver much more, because I hate chasing brass. (cant seem to let it go, have to find them all)
rrh

[LUCKYDAWG13]

just a thought if you are stuck on a 9mm look at a 92 FS the one that I have is as cast friendly as my SR 1911

[dragon813gt]

Just realized he wasn't casting yet. Look at a CZ 75 variant. They are cast friendly when he gets to that stage. And they are inherently accurate.

Forgot to add that the 75 can be sent off the Cajun Gun Works or the CZ Custom Shop to make it absolutely outstanding for not much money.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Does the XD have standard rifling or does it use polygonal rifling? hate to say I dont know
rrh
standard rifling

[Ickisrulz]

just a thought if you are stuck on a 9mm look at a 92 FS the one that I have is as cast friendly as my SR 1911

This is my experience as well. I have no problems whatsoever shooting cast through the 92FS.

[Bigslug]

1911 in .45 with an Advantage Arms .22LR conversion kit.

Easier caliber to learn loading on and pre-handloading cost issues solved, plus he's running the gun in it's more logistically sound "standard" caliber.

[country gent]

I have a 1911 in 38 spl wadcutter thats a joy to shoot, recoil is non existant accuracy is exceptional with hollow based wadcutters. But it is a special purpose firearm. A 1911 in 9mm 38 super or 45 acp would be good to start out with. 9mm and 40 S7w are shorter cartridges than the 1911 was originally desighned for and can pose special issues. A 45 with 200 grn semi wadcutters or 230 grn round nosed cast will perform well right off normally. The Smith and wesson 52 is another semi auto set up for 38 spl wadcutter loads thats easy to shoot. Some of the Smiths 645,745 945 and the newer double actions do well also but tuning and parts may not be as available. Theres alot of choices out there Springfield , kimber, rock river, Smith & wesson, ruger along with many others. The thing is to have him handle as many as possible and see what feels right to him. Even better if there are ranges that rent handguns is to rent and have him fire several to see what works for him.

[straightwall]

Only if he is wedded to the caliber and the idea of a semi auto. I'm old enough to be a revolver fan because I'm tired of bending over to pick up brass. I'm tired of chasing brass. I'd rather open a revolver and dump the brass on the bench in front of me and put it back in the case.

38 Special and 357 Mag are easy to load with lead.

This is me, as well.

[Markbo]

Keep in mind plated bulles. Supplied by Berry's or Ranier make very reasonably prced, high quality bulk plated bullets.just keep velocity under 1200fps. I have shot 1000s & 1000s of them in .45 acp and have always been veruy happy with them. For instance 500 are only $50 @ Midway.

1000 from Berrys is $89. FWIW I dont use ball. Strictly fp (or truncated cone) or hp with 100% reliability in multiple guns.

[FergusonTO35]

Glocks can shoot cast very well, especially if he isn't trying to get 1200 fps on his first try. The OEM barrels on my three have throats that are very cast friendly. My pistols were all made in the last three years so I have no idea about the older ones. If he isn't casting yet and has never even owned a handgun he probably should start by shooting factory ammo so he can just focus on developing skills and getting a supply of brass built up. My Glocks all shoot cheapo Walmart grade ammo very well. I've been loading 9mm almost as long as I've been loading .38 Special and don't see where the bad reputation comes from. Never had a bit of trouble out of it when using quality boolits of proper size and with good lube and not trying to push it beyond reason-which is how you should load any cartridge.

[bedbugbilly]

Caliber is a personal thing as far as I'm concerned. I'm a little perplexed by the comments that 9mm is hard to cast for and or difficult to get to cycle. Casting a 9mm boolit is no harder than a 32, a 45, etc. Reloading 9mm is not "rocket science" either compared to other calibers that headspace on the throat. As far as getting it to cycle in your individual pistol, that's whey you work up a load with proper powder grain weight with a given boolit weight and the right COAL that will function in your firearm . . . i.e. be accurate and cycle.

9mm brass is cheap the same as 40. I'm old and while I'm mainly a revolver shooter, I have a SR9 and a 9mm Shield. Both shoot cast very well and I love the Shield as it eats anything I feed it . . . after I've worked up a load for it. I buy "range brass" when I can find it cheap . . that way it doesn't hurt so bad when they fly and I can't find 'em all. I don't have a 40 but I've been offered buckets of it at one time for nothing - I passed on it as I don't plan on getting a 40. 45 brass isn't that hard to get either.

And . . if you cast for 9mm you can easily interchange many of the boolit designs/weights and load them in 38 Spl./357 should you have those revolvers. I do it all the time.

If he is going to eventually cast and reload . . . go with the caliber that he wants whether it be 9mm, 40 or 45 ACP. The mold cost, die cost, etc. will still be about the same regardless of caliber and what little difference there is in the cost of components . . . i.e. a few more grains of powder or lead . . . isn't going to make a big difference. If he's going to buy store bought . . . then compare the availability and cost of each in your area.

Before anything else though . . . if there is a range that rents handguns near him . . . have him try the calibers and models he thinks he might want first. Nothing worse than buying a new handgun and finding out that it really isn't what you thought it might be. The 1911 platform gives the offering of either 45ACP or 9mm . . and perhaps others. Other platforms might give all three choices.

[FergusonTO35]

Put some Lee 356-120-TC downrange with my Glock 26 today. Shoots lead just fine with the factory barrel, plated too. I like 3.7 grains HP-38 for 996 fps. This load produces no more leading in the Glock barrel than in my Storm Lake barrel. Boolits are sized to .356 with Randy Rat's Tac-X.

Ya know, Glock pistols have been $500.00 new here since pretty much forever. That was expensive back in the day but now about average. I love the Sig Sauer classic pistols but they are bumping against $1000.00 nowadays.

[Thumbcocker]

Last time we were at the range there was a gentleman shooting a Philippine made 1911 that was doing very well with 200 swc boolits. The gun was box stock and he said it cost about $300. I put five through it and it was very respectable.

[junkpile]

There are so many good choices between 9mm and 45auto at reasonable prices right now. He needs to just pick one that he likes, and run with it for a while. I would recommend a RIA if he wants a 1911, and basically any reputable 9mm in the case.

If this is his first, the emphasis should be on enjoying shooting, rather than worrying about casting his own too much. I've been hearing good stuff about the new Canik, which can be found for around $350 or so. But, the M&P can be found for about the same price as well.

[straightwall]

Where does a new M&P cost $350? In Houston they are all $500. Sign me up!

[EDK]

I had a 9mm BROWNING HIGH POWER back in 1971 and traded it in 1977. I've had 45 ACP COLT autos, SMITH & WESSON revolvers and 645 autos. After the divorce, I joined a local gun club with outdoor range for a place to shoot and I picked up so d*** much 9mm brass that I bought or traded for GLOCK 17, 26 and 34. I also bought an ADVANTAGE ARMS 22 LR conversion unit that fits the 17 and 34, but it's a little picky about ammo and there isn't a lot of choices out there currently.
Go look at what the local shop has to find what you like. I'd suggest a GLOCK 17 or 19. The factory barrel can be less than "cast friendly," but use plated/powder coated/? until you start casting your own. The STORM LAKE and KKM barrels will do a lot better than I can shoot, but I'm still trying to get better performance out of the factory barrels. I'm using the LEE 120-TC sized to .358 in my STAR with LARS' 50/50 and 4.0 of PROMO in afore mentioned range brass with excellent functioning. A LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE has helped with brass dimension problems. Otherwise, the GLOCKS have only balked on a couple of high primers in 5000 rounds since June.
There are a lot of good guns out there, but I'd recommend a 9 mm GLOCK in a heartbeat....even with WAYNE NOVAK tuned S&W 645s, assorted S&W DA revolvers PLUS Ruger VAQUEROS IN 357 or 44 in the safe.

[FergusonTO35]

You know what's odd is my two 9mm Glocks do best with .356 boolits in the OEM barrels.

[junkpile]

Where does a new M&P cost $350? In Houston they are all $500. Sign me up!

Joint base Elmendorf / Richardson. And on sale. When I wrote that I was thinking used, but now that you've challenged my memory, the PX sales come up to be pretty good. 10% off on everything, and with some freebies included. I saved almost $100 on my g19 on that sale.

Also have seen them on Bud's and KYGUNCO for near that price as well.

[straightwall]

[emoji30]. Houston gun prices are too high!

[VinceG]

I like the EAA 9 mms. they are a CZ-75 clone and half the cost, They shoot great and handle cast well in 9mm.

[Forrest r]

springfield 1911's are a pure joy to shoot.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ropair_zpsjjjmkgtp.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ropair_zpsjjjmkgtp.jpg.html)

I shoot the 9mm quite a bit, never had a problem reloading cast/lead/pc'd bullets in it sized to .356.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/9mm_zpspljbrgxj.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/9mm_zpspljbrgxj.jpg.html)

Actually just started working on a new bullet for the 9mm 1911. It's a 130gr tc with a cupped base. Was going to give them the rundown by testing bullets sized to .356/.357/.358 and soft vs hard alloy. Will be looking for a highly accurate load with these bullets.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/leetl9mm_zps7ii2gany.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/leetl9mm_zps7ii2gany.jpg.html)

It's hard to go wrong with 1911 chambered in 9mm.

[birch]

Glock

[PerpetualStudent]

A question that occurs to me: What calibers are you already casting for?

If your son isn't into casting yet but you are already casting, it might make sense for him to try casting with you. Your son might be a good while away from casting so the guys who have said "what's cheapest without casting?" are onto something. I'd rather most shooters spend money on trigger time than accessories. If he picks a caliber he can afford to feed now you can follow up with reloading and casting stuff piece by piece later.

The other point that sometimes gets lost in these discussions is: what feels good to him? What points naturally for him? Different guns and different grips are suited to different people. Certainly you can learn to get by, but it's much better if you start with something that feels right. It's hard to generalize about what will feel right because it is idiosyncratic. But if he picks it up and it feels right, that'll likely be a good starting point for him.

Reputation wise, I can only say what I've experienced so YMMV. I've not had good luck with 1911s, even though they feel fantastic in my hand. I've tried 3 and all of them have had feeding issues, for me and their respective owners. Obviously the guys on this board have fared better. The two most reliable semi's that I've tried (and I know they've been reliable for their owners) are a CZ-75 in 9mm, and a Springfield XD in .45 ACP

[MtGun44]

If you don't mind chasing brass, a 1911 in .45 ACP is easy to load for,
has all the possibilities for custom mods that one can even imagine
and superb ergonomics, often overlooked. I can't tell you how many
new shooters, when let shoot and handle a wide range of handguns,
including Glocks, with no prompting, have selected the 1911 when we
are just starting to discuss the different kinds of handgun to choose
from. Women and men. I have started asking "why", and frequently get
"Oh, I don't know, I just like the way if feels in my hand" fairly often.
I make sure to not let on my interest in 1911s until the students have
selected.

If chasing brass is an issue Ruger and S&W make (new and used) some
wonderful .38/.357 revolvers that are also easy to load for. Colts are
great revolvers, too, just harder to find and frequently crazy expensive.

If one likes a good trigger, and likes practicing, I cannot understand the
fascination with Glocks. Cops, who generally like guns as much as the like their
radio or handcuffs, OK, but gun guys? A gun that can never have a decent short
travel, crisp and light trigger? I do get the cheap and reliable idea, but
High Points are even cheaper, reported to be totally reliable and almost
as 'good looking' as a Glock........ both are like a buzzard - functional ONLY.

However - some of this is still a free country, so people will like different
things. No explaining taste, or really no need to, I guess. I like broccoli,
and don't like sour cream. Folks will differ with me on that, too.

:bigsmyl2:

Bill