RCBS X-die: Is it worth it?

[fourarmed]

I just finished trimming a large number of .308 cases for my M-14. Even though I used the WFT in my lathe, it was still onerous, and the blister still plagues my right index finger. I would prefer not to do that ever again. I am wondering if the RCBS X-die will work on mixed cases, or if I have to sort them. I am not sure why, but there was still a lot of variation in length after trimming, with IMI and WCC cases the longest, and LC and commercial the shortest.

[lefty o]

something wrong if you have much variation in length after trimming. if you sized after trimming, that would explain it, but id assume you sized, then trim like your supposed to.

[W.R.Buchanan]

X dies work great and if you only want to trim your brass one time they are the hot ticket.

Randy

[sundog]

The WFT is dandy, but it sets the length based on the shoulder. Variations in length will occur with variation in shoulder configuration. If this brass was not all fire formed in the same firearm, then shoulder profile will be all over the place. Problem now will be which case to use to set your X-die. For what you have I would think the longest trimmed case would be the one to use to set your die.

Seems to me that the 'best' use of the WFT is all same lot of brass, fire formed, then trimmed. That would be the closest a batch could get to all the same. Set the X-die for THAT batch and leave it at that setting for THAT batch. A different batch would require it's own X-die set to it's own batch.

Seems like this is a good idea for something like a dedicated match rifle, which I intend to do (maybe) with the AR I use for high power, that has a large batch of dedicated (same lot) brass.

That is, unless I do not fully understand what the X-die is really for...

btw, I really like WFT, and use it, but dead length trimming is the only way to get a batch of cases ALL the same length.

[Motor]

sundog is right about the WFT. BUT:::::::

I'm currently using X-DIEs for. 308 Win and 30-06. My brother has used them for .223 also.

I seriously don't know why these things are not selling so fast that RCBS couldn't keep up with demand. But considering how long it took me to try them I guess it's not hard to believe.

I think that most guys are just not willing to buy something they feel they already have a tool to do the same job, (size their brass) and are skeptical that it does what they claim.

Others make excuses like it's eaiser to trim than to measure them all or that trimming make them that much more accurate. Unless you are crimping I doubt you'll ever notice any accuracy difference from a few thousands inch more or less case neck length.

I have yet to read one negative post about X-DIEs. So far my experience is positive and from what I've read from others I expect it to stay positive.

I would suggest to anyone who is buying a set of dies for the first time for general purpose shooting especially if they will be loading for a semiautomatic to do yourself a big favor and get a set of RCBS X-DIEs. Follow the instructions and if you have trouble understanding them just ask. Heck ask me I'd be glad to help.

When I see all the debate and all the discussion on reloading forums about which trimmer is best it just makes me laugh.

It's really strange how the reloading world has basically ignored the X-DIE yet the #1 thing that every reloader will admits they hate doing is trimming. Truly amazing.

You don't need the world's best trimmer when you only need it once. :)

It is also becoming ever more apparent that people don't understand how you prep your brass to use the X-DIE. It's actually pretty simple once you "get it".

Motor

[freebullet]

I use wft. I FL size beforehand, it works fine. I can keep variations to .001-.002 if I take my time and make sure the bit is clearing the shavings even on mixed brass. I use a variable speed drill strapped to my bench.

[winelover]

FWIW. Been using a mixed batch (500 pcs ) of 308 Military Brass, that was first trimmed to 2.006 and then sized with the X-die. All shot in my Armalite AR-10 carbine. Mostly LC but various years. Ten percent, were WCC and a few other military headstamps. I then sorted by year, highly doubt that they are from the same lot. I have reached 16 reloadings and none grew past 2.011 inches. All loadings, completely cycle the action....100% feed and eject. I am not a "Bench Rest" shooter, by any means......100 yard accuracy (2MOA or less) is still holding up. YMMV


Winelover

[Patrick L]

The X die rocks! I have used them in .30-06 and .223 for about 8 or 9 years now.

[David2011]

The X dies work as advertised for me but I have elected to use a Lee Collet neck sizing die instead on 6.5x55, .22-250 and .22 Hornet to preserve the fire forming. Accuracy seems to be better with the 6.5 using fire formed cases. The .22 Hornet brass is too hard to come b to FL size every time. I haven't proven that neck sized brass is more accurate on the .22-250 but it sure makes loading just a few quick.

David

[Motor]

David. No doubt. For a precision bolt action I would be neck only sizing or something similar as you but for real good semiautomatic accuracy, good to great case life and basically one time trimming I don't understand why the X-DIE has not taken the reloading world by storm.

The directions actually specify to trim .010" under the normal trim length. So typically that is .020" less than maximum. If you concider what "Winelover" stated above it makes perfect sense because what you would end up with is brass that has grown to about normal trim length.

The thing that is confusing to many people is that you have to size the brass normally before you trim it. You can do this with the X-DIE but you have to back off the "X" feature so the die works as a normal full length size die.

Then after you trim and deburr the case you set the "X" feature off of a sized and trimmed case.

It was easy for me because I was just switching to the X-DIE. I sized a casing with my regular old die, trimmed it to the specified length and deburred it. Then I set the X-DIE up to cam over. Ran tbat sized and trimmed case into it and adjusted the "X" feature according to the instructions. Done!!! Removed the X-DIE from the press, put the old full length die back in and sized the rest of my lot of brass then trimmed it all.

If you fallow the instructions you can't go wrong. If you want to prep more brass for the X-DIE it's no big deal just size it and trim it .020" under maximum. Now it too is ready for the X-DIE.

It's pretty obvious that the brass when sized in the X-DIE can only withstand so much compression. This is why it has to be allowed to grow naturally through the sizing process for the die to be able to stop the growth without buckling the case body.

The difference between what you set the "X" feature at and the resulting OAL that was controlled by the X-DIE is very likely the brass springing back after the press ram is lowered. Like "Winelover" said, trimmed to 2.006, his X-DIE controlled length(s) are coming out about 2.011" so mine should end up around 2" to maybe 2.003" with "normal" trim length being 2.005"

Motor

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is also becoming ever more apparent that people don't understand how you prep your brass to use the X-DIE. It's actually pretty simple once you "get it".
Motor


Good Point,,, and really the only one that matters here.

You F/L size all your brass first,,, Then you trim them to a common length like .010 to .015 under max length with a Dead Length Trimmer.

Now you have cases that are uniform in shoulder length and OAL, and you can then set your X Die correctly by following the instructions .

If you use a WFT before your cases are F/L sized,,, the OAL's will be all over the place because the WFT indexes off the shoulder of the case, not the base of the case which is where you measure OAL from.

The shoulder of the case may or may not be in the same place on all cases,,, and in fact,,, it is not!

This is why I do not own a WFT. I instead use X Dies for my .308's and .30-06's. I only F/L Size and trim once.

I also don't trim .223 cases since all mine are once fired and after I reload them and shoot them I probably won't ever see them again.

The X Die Instructions are a little cornfusing however if you read and re read them a few times they do make perfect sense.

Randy