Texas Open Carry

[TXGunNut]

I can't believe we're something like the 35th state to pass this but somehow even the conservative press is a bit disturbed by this. Most folks haven't even noticed openly armed people walking around, quietly taking care of business. I must admit I'm a bit disappointed, all I've seen is plastic guns in plastic holsters. :shock:
This is TEXAS after all. Let's see some Colt single actions or at least a custom 1911 in a leather holster, preferably hand-tooled with a matching belt. I'll keep my pretty guns and leather concealed but someday I might actually tuck in my shirt and show off a little eye candy. ;-)
Or not.

[David2011]

I live just across the state line between Texas and New Mexico. NM has been an open carry state for ages yet I seldom see anyone open carry in NM. Yep, the usual one does carry Tupperware in Kydex. Old guy, too- about my age. The kind you would expect to be toting a Colt in tooled leather. I only carry openly while hunting or doing any activity in the rattlesnake filled desert. Since I never ponied up for a Single Action Army my tooled leather holster carries a hawgleg Blackhawk in .45 Colt. Leather courtesy of our own "Springfield" and damm proud to carry it.

David

[starmac]

How far across the line, do I know you? lol

[David2011]

About 5 miles.

David

[rosewood]

Funny thing around here is, usually when you see someone open carry, they have a cheap gun in a nylon holster. Rarely do you see a Sig or 1911 in a nice leather holster. Guess the folks that think they have to show off are doing it to get attention. The rest of us just conceal. I like the element of surprise. Of course, I can see some cases where open carry might be a good idea to let the perps know from a distance, I ain't taking your ****.

[w5pv]

I don't want anyone to know I carry until I have the weapon stuck in their gut and pull the trigger.I have never had to pull my weapon.

[Walkingwolf]

I don't want anyone to know I carry until I have the weapon stuck in their gut and pull the trigger.I have never had to pull my weapon.

I don't want to be in that situation in the first place. To be legally in that position one must be the victim of a threat first, can't just go around sticking a gun in a gut. I have never had to pull my weapon on a person OCing as a civilian.

[cajun shooter]

If you are in a open fire zone where you have the SHTF 24/7, then open carry is a need to type of carry. If you are going into your local store, then the open carry may get you shot before you know what is going on. While on my tour of duty as a LEO, I lost two friends who were wearing the uniform and issue gun belt when they stopped at a store that was in the process of being robbed. They had no knowledge and were shot and killed right after they entered the store.
I have years of schooling in guns, sniper team training, armorer's schools and so on. The gun that is not seen has a much better chance of getting your butt out of trouble than the open carry one. If you have a situation where you have 3 or more members of troublemakers that are veteran cons, you will be the first target taken out and believe me, these guys are well trained in what they do. Your sidearm will not put one ounce of fear into them as they are well prepared to take you on. If they are some green rookies who are just getting started, you may put some worry on them, it depends if they want to show how bad they are. It's something that requires many hours of training to overcome and be the last man standing when it's over. Take care David

[JSnover]

Why has anyone brought up retention? If you're into OC, you need a holster that prevents someone from grabbing your gun.

[jmort]

"Funny thing around here is, usually when you see someone open carry, they have a cheap gun in a nylon holster."

Was just in the local "Farm Store" and dude in front of me checking out had a Glock in a nylon holster. He was one big man, so I imagine, if you grabbed his gun, you would want to be able to deploy it. Why aren't all the armed mall cops and armed guards getting rolled if it is so easy? Armored guard trucks carrying cash do get hit, but not a lot, why don't they get smoked? If you are going to open carry, you had better be in condition Yellow plus/Red. Again, I think, more open carry guns, equals less fear of guns.

[Walkingwolf]

If you are in a open fire zone where you have the SHTF 24/7, then open carry is a need to type of carry. If you are going into your local store, then the open carry may get you shot before you know what is going on. While on my tour of duty as a LEO, I lost two friends who were wearing the uniform and issue gun belt when they stopped at a store that was in the process of being robbed. They had no knowledge and were shot and killed right after they entered the store.
I have years of schooling in guns, sniper team training, armorer's schools and so on. The gun that is not seen has a much better chance of getting your butt out of trouble than the open carry one. If you have a situation where you have 3 or more members of troublemakers that are veteran cons, you will be the first target taken out and believe me, these guys are well trained in what they do. Your sidearm will not put one ounce of fear into them as they are well prepared to take you on. If they are some green rookies who are just getting started, you may put some worry on them, it depends if they want to show how bad they are. It's something that requires many hours of training to overcome and be the last man standing when it's over. Take care David

Let us see the citations? We have had court protected OC in NC for over 80 years without any such blood running in the streets, or Dodge city.

[Walkingwolf]

"Funny thing around here is, usually when you see someone open carry, they have a cheap gun in a nylon holster."

Was just in the local "Farm Store" and dude in front of me checking out had a Glock in a nylon holster. He was one big man, so I imagine, if you grabbed his gun, you would want to be able to deploy it. Why aren't all the armed mall cops and armed guards getting rolled if it is so easy? Armored guard trucks carrying cash do get hit, but not a lot, why don't they get smoked? If you are going to open carry, you had better be in condition Yellow plus/Red. Again, I think, more open carry guns, equals less fear of guns.

Whether OC/CC/NC(no carry) one is a fool if they do not use common sense, and situational awareness. But yes in general people do not go running here when they see someone with a gun.

[tinhorn97062]

I don't want anyone to know I carry until I have the weapon stuck in their gut and pull the trigger.

This.

[white eagle]

If you are in a open fire zone where you have the SHTF 24/7, then open carry is a need to type of carry. If you are going into your local store, then the open carry may get you shot before you know what is going on. While on my tour of duty as a LEO, I lost two friends who were wearing the uniform and issue gun belt when they stopped at a store that was in the process of being robbed. They had no knowledge and were shot and killed right after they entered the store.
I have years of schooling in guns, sniper team training, armorer's schools and so on. The gun that is not seen has a much better chance of getting your butt out of trouble than the open carry one. If you have a situation where you have 3 or more members of troublemakers that are veteran cons, you will be the first target taken out and believe me, these guys are well trained in what they do. Your sidearm will not put one ounce of fear into them as they are well prepared to take you on. If they are some green rookies who are just getting started, you may put some worry on them, it depends if they want to show how bad they are. It's something that requires many hours of training to overcome and be the last man standing when it's over. Take care David


that is my take as well
I live in o/c state and have never
seen a single person o/c
stealth,surprise are great allies

[jmorris]

I must admit I'm a bit disappointed, all I've seen is plastic guns in plastic holsters. :shock:
This is TEXAS after all. Let's see some Colt single actions or at least a custom 1911 in a leather holster, preferably hand-tooled with a matching belt. I'll keep my pretty guns and leather concealed but someday I might actually tuck in my shirt and show off a little eye candy. ;-)
Or not.


Here you go.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/IMG_20160101_120148-1_zpsl7el9ysx.jpg

[rosewood]

Here you go.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/IMG_20160101_120148-1_zpsl7el9ysx.jpg

Is that some kind of Cowboy Action, IDPA combination competition he is at?? LOL

[LUBEDUDE]

I hope he has spare Ammo on the other side. He may need it!

[Bonz]

NC has been an open carry state for years now. I don't open carry but I do love the fact that I don't have to worry about printing or accidentally displaying my concealed gun...

[FISH4BUGS]

Guess the folks that think they have to show off are doing it to get attention. The rest of us just conceal.
Open carry is nothing more than a "hey....look at me. I am a bad a**. I carry a gun". Yes, it is your right to do so, but it is also the right of others to think you are a jerk.
If you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
There is no need to carry openly unless you are in the country. I carry concealed even when fishing or hiking. No one knows but me.

[dragon813gt]

Open carry is nothing more than a "hey....look at me. I am a bad a**. I carry a gun". Yes, it is your right to do so, but it is also the right of others to think you are a jerk.
If you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
There is no need to carry openly unless you are in the country. I carry concealed even when fishing or hiking. No one knows but me.

So many things wrong in this post. I try my hardest to stay out of these threads on all the forums.

Let's get a few things straight. Not everyone who OCs does it for attention. I will say they are tiny minority. Most do it for convenience.


Second, you don't get to tell someone how to carry. If you want to carry concealed than by all means do so. As long as you are legal than who cares how someone else caries?

This particular discussion is why firearm owners have so many issues. The "community" is anything but and is fractured beyond belief. Carry method is along the lines of personal freedoms. Not everyone has to do it your way. We all need to stand together instead of chastising each other because someone does it differently. Stay w/in the law, do so safely, and there are no issues when it comes to open carry.

[starmac]

When I do carry, it is open carry. The way I dress it would be hard too otherwise, also pretty hard to conceal a 7 1/2 in blackhawk, a 9 1/2in single six, etc, etc. I do not carry often, but when I do no one pays a lot of attention, that I have noticed.

[Walkingwolf]

So many things wrong in this post. I try my hardest to stay out of these threads on all the forums.

Let's get a few things straight. Not everyone who OCs does it for attention. I will say they are tiny minority. Most do it for convenience.


Second, you don't get to tell someone how to carry. If you want to carry concealed than by all means do so. As long as you are legal than who cares how someone else caries?

This particular discussion is why firearm owners have so many issues. The "community" is anything but and is fractured beyond belief. Carry method is along the lines of personal freedoms. Not everyone has to do it your way. We all need to stand together instead of chastising each other because someone does it differently. Stay w/in the law, do so safely, and there are no issues when it comes to open carry.

Besides who cares what hoplophobes think, we as a society spend to much time worrying about the other guy. If somebody, though I doubt it, is carrying to show, it is none of the anti's business. They can go pound sand, in fact it is showing them they cannot force their will on the rest of us.

There are many reasons to open carry, not everyone has the same one, or just a single one. I open carry because I do want to appear as a victim, or become one. Even if it is a surviving victim. I also do NOT WANT to get in a gunfight, will avoid one as much as possible. Seems that a very small minority of CC folks are slobbering just to do that. It is none of my business, THEY must deal with the consequence. I on the other hand go happily about my life using my common sense, and the tools available to stay safe, stay out of trouble.

As a OC advocate I show the state/government in the open that I am exercising my 2A right. The intended purpose of the 2A.
It is more comfortable wearing a gun on a belt made to carry a gun comfortably.
I don't need special clothing sizes to hide my gun, or special clothing.
I can carry a full size gun, that is better suited for combat. Longer barrel, more capacity, and still do it comfortably.
I actually get to answer questions from the public to educate them on carry, because they do not know who is CCing to ask. And the response while minimal here in NC, is always positive.
I don't need no stinking permit, beg the very government for permission that the 2A was written for.
Most important the criminal can clearly see that I am armed, so they can then either find a softer target, or just go away empty handed.

I salute OCT, and others who fought so hard for OC, I hope eventually they get constitutional carry, despite the Fudds, and Butters. The New Year for Texans was truly a moment to celebrate. As for the whiners? Texans tell them to pound sand, bugger off, go procreate themselves. Actually not though, just ignoring them will be enough. Actually they are the ones seeking attention by flaming any act they have no control over, to GET ATTENTION.

Climbing off my soapbox now...

[LaPoint]

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/IMG_20160101_120148-1_zpsl7el9ysx.jpg

Do you have a few spare cylinders for the SAA? :bigsmyl2:

[FISH4BUGS]

.....you don't get to tell someone how to carry. If you want to carry concealed than by all means do so. As long as you are legal than who cares how someone else caries?
Carry method is along the lines of personal freedoms. Not everyone has to do it your way. Stay w/in the law, do so safely, and there are no issues when it comes to open carry.
You are, of course, quite correct in your observations. But with actions come consequences. Open carry has the very real potential for someone to simply show off. Perhaps in Texas it is normal and cusomary. Here is New Hampshire it is very rare.
So my motto stands: if you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
I was merely expressing my opinion of those that open carry when they just as easily could carry concealed.

[LaPoint]

My only concerns with open carry is that the person carrying could/would be more likely to targeted for theft/assault than one who is CC. As a 26+ year still active LEO I've never taken a gun of a criminal who has a permit to carry. How does one know if someone is carrying concealed, you don't. From my perspective everyone is potentially armed. Therefore a "permit to carry" is meaningless. Firearm safety should be approached just like sex education. Lack of subject knowledge usually causes more heartache and damage than a thorough knowledge of the subject. The biggest problem with people carrying handguns is that they don't practice adequately or often enough.

[stanford]

I think personally that back in the days when everyone had a sidearm that was accepted, now we fast forward to today and not a lot of people seem to have grown up around guns and frown when they see someone with a gun. To me its very strange when I hear Texans speak about guns and how they are scared because its a dangerous weapon. I am from the big apple, when I moved her the first thing I did was purchase a S&W 40cal then I just bought more and more firearms.

When the open carry law was mentioned I thought to myself that is a very good thing, but my other concern was people are so dumbed down they will be scared for themselves and their kids because this is not normal to see unless its from a LEO. No matter how I preach to others that they have to take care of themselves and their families, they claim they understand but yet their actions really tell the tale. Most people are under the impression that LE and the government will protect them. I on the other hand would much rather put that protection in my own hands when it comes to my family.

One of the things I never used to do was speak about military life with my family. I still don't do it but I make sure my household knows how to handle firearms by taking them to the range etc. My wife used to be terrified of guns, now she is always bugging me to go to the shooting range (she is a Texan).

I do like the idea of open carry and I think it would be really cool if I were surrounded by people everyday who OC. I keep everything concealed using my aliengear OWB holster with a dark t-shirt on and you cannot tell I have a springfield 45 on me, it just looks like a cell phone on my side. If most people in texas were not so closed minded I may OC also, but as it stands I will CC.

[Walkingwolf]

My only concerns with open carry is that the person carrying could/would be more likely to targeted for theft/assault than one who is CC. As a 26+ year still active LEO I've never taken a gun of a criminal who has a permit to carry. How does one know if someone is carrying concealed, you don't. From my perspective everyone is potentially armed. Therefore a "permit to carry" is meaningless. Firearm safety should be approached just like sex education. Lack of subject knowledge usually causes more heartache and damage than a thorough knowledge of the subject. The biggest problem with people carrying handguns is that they don't practice adequately or often enough.

Actually states with OC rarely, if ever have a problem with gun snatches, it is a myth. As far as criminals studies in prison have shown by an overwhelming majority criminals will avoid a armed citizen. In fact they fear an armed citizen more than police.

Studies have also shown that LAC(lawfully armed citizens) have higher accuracy in shootings, and that LAC shoot more criminals than police. Most gun owners buy a gun, shoot it once, put it in a drawer. We on forums are on the outskirt of gun owners. YET these inexperienced gun owners have a high record of defending themselves accurately in the home.

[SteveS]

There's a lot more OC going on in NH than F4B realizes. I think that's because most aren't trying to show off. Their just carrying.

Open carry allows those who don't have a concealed carry license (pistol/revolver license) to carry in public. If you can't carry without a CC license, your right to bear arms is being infringed.

Open carry has nothing to do with showing off.

[shooter93]

Maybe some who open carry are showing off but I'd bet on it being a very small number. I have and do carry both ways depending on what I am doing. It will be a very slow process but personally I'd like to see the day when more people carried openly. It was accepted and people didn't have a fear of armed people like they do today. maybe we can slowly change the perspective a lot of people have. No generation was exposed to guns more that mine was and although it was a fairly rural area they were everywhere and even kept in school lockers or the principles office because a lot of rural kids "hunted" their way back home across the fields. And...we didn't shoot our school mates or blaze away in a mall. We were educated about guns early and we learned properly.

[rosewood]

NC has been an open carry state for years now. I don't open carry but I do love the fact that I don't have to worry about printing or accidentally displaying my concealed gun...
Here here.

[rosewood]

One case where I can see open carry as a good thing is for say a handicapped person in a wheel chair or elderly. They look like a victim and the element of surprise is less beneficial than "don't mess with me". If I was one of the mentioned, you can bet I would make mine visible.

Rosewood

[DougGuy]

They also gotta know that with the open carry law, that extends to gang bangers and ragheads so if law abiding citizens carrying disturbs someone, wait til openly armed gangs start roaming the streets.

I wouldn't OC because it is too much of a temptation for some sh*tforbrains punks wif grills and baggy pants to rob you at gunpoint of your sidearm.

[oldblinddog]

NC has been an open carry state for years now. I don't open carry but I do love the fact that I don't have to worry about printing or accidentally displaying my concealed gun...

this ^

[TXGunNut]

All kidding aside I'm very much for OC, it's just not for me. I have 25 years of LE behind me and I was taught the tactical advantage of CC and dept policy mandated CC in most cases when in plain clothes. I prefer not to draw attention to myself for any reason, that's hard to pull off when you OC. I had to wear nylon gear when I worked bikes but I've been packing my 1911's (or occasionally a RBH) in attractive El Paso Saddlery or Bianchi holsters for years, almost nobody ever sees them and then only when I wanted. I take pride in my carry guns as well, one is a pretty serious custom Colt 1911 and the others are pretty special as well-at least to me.

IMHO life's just too short to carry an ugly gun in an ugly holster, but go ahead and do it. I've got your back and I enjoy that it ticks lots of folks off.
On a bit of a tangent I walked into a restaurant tonight, one I've patronized for over 30, probably 35 years. They had a (non-compliant) 30.06 sign posted and the non-verbal "no guns" sign below it for the illiterate gun owners. 30.06 deals with prohibiting concealed weapons on the premises and I'm pretty sure the sign was a knee-jerk reaction to OC. Funny thing is a new provision; 30.07, deals with open carry. I'll go online and do their survey and explain to them that they've very likely lost me as a customer.

[Tracy]

So many things wrong in this post. I try my hardest to stay out of these threads on all the forums.

Let's get a few things straight. Not everyone who OCs does it for attention. I will say they are tiny minority. Most do it for convenience.


Second, you don't get to tell someone how to carry. If you want to carry concealed than by all means do so. As long as you are legal than who cares how someone else caries?

This particular discussion is why firearm owners have so many issues. The "community" is anything but and is fractured beyond belief. Carry method is along the lines of personal freedoms. Not everyone has to do it your way. We all need to stand together instead of chastising each other because someone does it differently. Stay w/in the law, do so safely, and there are no issues when it comes to open carry.

This.
I was gonna say, "how do you know what my situation and mindset is when I open carry?" But you said it better.

What makes these people such experts, anyway? Also, to the poster who lost a couple of friends in a store robbery, that's not a fair comparison. I'm pretty sure a couple of uniformed cops who got shot when they wandered into a robbery were shot because they were cops, not because they were open carrying.

I would also like to point out that 35+ states did not "already pass" a law allowing open carry. Some of those states did pass such a law, but a lot (perhaps most) of them never banned open carry in the first place.
One more thing: as I understand it (and correct me if I am wrong), the new Texas law only allows open carry for licensed carriers. Kinda like that other supposedly pro-gun state, Tennessee. That does not equate to states that allow unlicensed open carry carry to satisfy the "bear arms" part of the 2nd amendment. States like Alabama, Kentucky, Vermont, Virginia and several others have never required a license to open carry.

And by the way, if we are gonna include states that regulate open carry, only three states- Illinois, New York and South Carolina- do not allow handgun open carry in any form. And it looks like South Carolina is on the verge of passing unlicensed open carry.
Even California allows unlicensed open carry of a loaded handgun in rural counties; a fact that tends to not be reported.

[rosewood]

IMHO life's just too short to carry an ugly gun in an ugly holster,

I agree. Why can't we make a fashion statement with our leather. Coordinate with our outfit. I bet that if you are dressed nice and are carrying a nice gun with leather holster, people will be less suspicious of you than if you are carrying nylon and wearing baggy camo and combat boots or a hoodie.

If you look professional, you are treated professionally.

[Walkingwolf]

They also gotta know that with the open carry law, that extends to gang bangers and ragheads so if law abiding citizens carrying disturbs someone, wait til openly armed gangs start roaming the streets.

I wouldn't OC because it is too much of a temptation for some sh*tforbrains punks wif grills and baggy pants to rob you at gunpoint of your sidearm.

And yet again I ask for citations.

[DougGuy]

And yet again I ask for citations.


http://concealednation.org/2014/10/man-open-carrying-new-handgun-gets-robbed-at-gunpoint-and-gives-robber-his-gun/

[bedbugbilly]

I have no dog in this fight as far as Texas getting the right to OC. We already have that right where I have homes in AZ and MI. Do I do it . . . yes I do when I'm on the farm. Do I do it it town? Nope . . . because I choose not to. Do I carry concealed? Yes . . . when i choose to but it is OTB and covered . . . sorry, but I find IWB very uncomfortable.

What I don't understand, is why everyone is getting all excited about Texas getting OC and why they are getting their shorts in a knot. OC exists in many states and has for a long time. Now, because Texas passed OC, the press and the tree huggers have made a big deal out of it . . . and thus . . . even those who own firearms are quibbling over it.

What a person chooses to do under the law is their business . . . you or I might not agree but then everyone is different. Yes . . there are those who will OC to show off . . . no different that a guy with a fancy sports car burning rubber to impress all around him of a blonde with a dynamite body walking down the street with a tight top and short skirt . . . but personally, I don't impress that easily.

I, too, especially in AZ, have seen many open carry. It's allowed by the law there and very few think that much about it. Does it promote the loss of their weapon by someone taking it away from them? Maybe there are isolated incidents that have occurred but show me the statistics please if you are going to harp on that. The same logic could apply to someone who is completely innocent, pulling up to a stop light and finding themselves the victim of a car jacking. Should they have been driving a "junker" instead of their new SUV?

The more people go on about Texas and their new OC . . the more it brings it out into the public eye and gives more ammunition to those who are "offended" by it. Personally, I don't want to "advertise" . . . but that is me and the circumstances that I may find myself in. Others? That's their business . . . but OC has been around a long time in a number of states . . . adding another one isn't really "news".

[JSnover]

Does it promote the loss of their weapon by someone taking it away from them? Maybe there are isolated incidents that have occurred but show me the statistics please if you are going to harp on that.
I don't mean to harp on it and I don't have statistics, though there have been instances. I just wonder why retention features don't get more attention, unless that aspect of OC just hasn't caught up with the main story yet. Two kinds of criminals will try to take your gun: The stupid ones who end up getting shot and the smart ones who know how to pull it off.
I believe the second group is pretty small but on the rare occasions that I do open-carry I use a SafariLand holster which makes it durn near impossible for someone to snatch my piece. However, for the record, that's not my primary concern. A cheap holster will allow your gun to fall out if you trip or fall, if you have to run (I've seen both in the range and in the woods), etc.
Maybe I worry too much but I think it's a valid concern.

[montana_charlie]

Open carry is nothing more than a "hey....look at me. I am a bad a**. I carry a gun". Yes, it is your right to do so, but it is also the right of others to think you are a jerk.
If you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
There is no need to carry openly unless you are in the country. I carry concealed even when fishing or hiking. No one knows but me.I was merely expressing my opinion of those that open carry when they just as easily could carry concealed.
" ... when they could just as easy carry concealed ... "
I have read your remarks several times, and I don't see where you made that distinction.
Actually, you mock everyone who carries openly, regardless of any personal reason for doing so.

The guy who only owns one suitable handgun may find his (say) Beretta 92 too large for ready concealment, but prefers to have it along, anyway. He can't meet your "could just as easy carry concealed" parameter because his firearm is not like the pea-shootin' little pocket pistol that you pack next to your pecker ... or whatever.

[jcwit]

And yet again I ask for citations.

Well Doug did come up with 1, LOL.

[Walkingwolf]

http://concealednation.org/2014/10/man-open-carrying-new-handgun-gets-robbed-at-gunpoint-and-gives-robber-his-gun/

Did you even take a little time to investigate? He was out in the wee hours showing off an unloaded gun. ONE idiot does not make a citation, that would make the percentage too low to calculate. I don't think there is enough bandwidth for the negative zeroes in that calculation.

There have been far more concealed carry gun snatches then open carry gun snatches. The Walmart victim in FL was a concealed carry, the man getting a sandwich in a store attacked and gun taken was conceal carry. Plus almost all the incidents of road rage were/are concealed carry.

In the years leading up to open carry in Texas not one incident of a violent crime, or gun snatch was reported, not a single one. Yet some of the business that requested no guns got robbed.

NO gun equals victims, and the appearance of no gun equals victim. Might be a surviving victim, but still a victim.

[possom813]

I skimmed through the posts and didn't see one detail about our new open carry that would that is relevant.

A person still has to possess a handgun license to open carry.

[LuckyDog]

You are, of course, quite correct in your observations. But with actions come consequences. Open carry has the very real potential for someone to simply show off. Perhaps in Texas it is normal and cusomary. Here is New Hampshire it is very rare.
So my motto stands: if you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
I was merely expressing my opinion of those that open carry when they just as easily could carry concealed.
Problem in NH is if you get in a car,they can bust you for CC without a permit.

[Walkingwolf]

Problem in NH is if you get in a car,they can bust you for CC without a permit.

At least in Texas they can conceal in a vehicle with, or without permit. Should be in every state.

[starmac]

At least in Texas they can conceal in a vehicle with, or without permit. Should be in every state.

Sure hasn't always been like that, Texas has improved their gun laws immensely since I have lived their.

[TXGunNut]

Sure hasn't always been like that, Texas has improved their gun laws immensely since I have lived their.

Yes, one of the last steps in our reconstruction after the War of Northern Aggression. ;-) It's ironic that a state as
gun-friendly as Texas is behind so many other states in recognizing 2A rights. Most Texans will be blown away (bad choice of words?) by the constitutional carry idea that is beginning to get traction around here, they'll be even more blown away when they learn how many states have made it work with little or no fuss.
Yessir, the times they are a-changin' !

[starmac]

I carried a gun in a vehicle for years in Texas, never tried to conceal it, just laid it on the dash, and I was never, ever questioned about it, even to ask if I was traveling. Now that said I was stopped just south of huntsville one night and had an empty holster on the dash, the young trooper actually went into hysterics, I thought he was going to rub a hole in my backbone with the muzzle of his pistol, he was shakeing so bad. lol

[NavyVet1959]

My only concerns with open carry is that the person carrying could/would be more likely to targeted for theft/assault than one who is CC. As a 26+ year still active LEO I've never taken a gun of a criminal who has a permit to carry. How does one know if someone is carrying concealed, you don't. From my perspective everyone is potentially armed. Therefore a "permit to carry" is meaningless. Firearm safety should be approached just like sex education. Lack of subject knowledge usually causes more heartache and damage than a thorough knowledge of the subject. The biggest problem with people carrying handguns is that they don't practice adequately or often enough.

Do you find a higher incidence of cases where police in uniform are robbed than police who are off-duty and not in uniform? From what I see on the news, that is not the case.

[NavyVet1959]

You are, of course, quite correct in your observations. But with actions come consequences. Open carry has the very real potential for someone to simply show off. Perhaps in Texas it is normal and cusomary. Here is New Hampshire it is very rare.
So my motto stands: if you want to carry, carry concealed. No one knows but you.
I was merely expressing my opinion of those that open carry when they just as easily could carry concealed.

Come down here for one of our 10+ month long summers and we'll see how well you like wearing an extra layer of clothing just so you can *conceal* carry. :)

[Nose Dive]

Hmmm.. Open Carry... yes it is NEW IN TEXAS...brand new... few days old. Am I doing it? Yes... all the time... go to the store,,walk the dog...get the mail... Fella above asks 'WHY?" Why cause an 'issue'?


good question... here is MY ANSWER. Don't laugh me off the pages!!

We have a 'right' to vote in these United States. So, why does only 30% OR LESS of the US citizenry vote?

I see my 'rights' as a duty. Voting and OPEN CARRYING.. it is MY DUTY to VOTE and OPEN CARRY...

If you don't exercise a 'muscle', it will atrophy and go away.

If you don't exercise a "RIGHT"...it will atrophy and go away.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

PS: our 'concealed carry' was as a result of a Sunday massacre in a Lubby's cafeteria of unarmed, Sunday afternoon church goers. Both parents of a state legislator were killed. 5 months later we had concealed carry. 8 years later we have open carry. This applies to pistols. Long guns were open carry all along. But, you had one, you were going to be stopped. Which resulted in several Supreme Court cases. end...now... this thread can go on for pages... ND

[Walkingwolf]

Hmmm.. Open Carry... yes it is NEW IN TEXAS...brand new... few days old. Am I doing it? Yes... all the time... go to the store,,walk the dog...get the mail... Fella above asks 'WHY?" Why cause an 'issue'?


good question... here is MY ANSWER. Don't laugh me off the pages!!

We have a 'right' to vote in these United States. So, why does only 30% OR LESS of the US citizenry vote?

I see my 'rights' as a duty. Voting and OPEN CARRYING.. it is MY DUTY to VOTE and OPEN CARRY...

If you don't exercise a 'muscle', it will atrophy and go away.

If you don't exercise a "RIGHT"...it will atrophy and go away.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

Plus there is only one way to normalize the carry of guns in public. Concealed is fine, but it cannot normalize carry. Sooner or later you will be just like NC, where nobody bats an eye, and some people shake your hand.

[TXGunNut]

Must admit I was in a grocery store (off-duty but armed & concealed) while the office was being robbed maybe 30-40 feet away. (It was many years ago, some details are a bit fuzzy.) I was even able to give a description of the robber, just didn't realize what he was actually doing. Was more interested in the cute girl in a halter top in line in front of me. :D
The robber was part of a prolific team that had a pretty good system; one would find the manager and bring him to the office, one would stay near the front of the store, a third was waiting in the car. Four guys rotated so it took awhile to realize it was one team doing all the robberies. Several months (or maybe even over a year after the robbery I was present for) the gang was apprehended and one member was especially helpful. It came out that the backup guy was directly behind me during the robbery. I can only theorize what would have happened if I had been more observant of the activities at the office. I don't know for sure that the backup guy was watching me but accounts seem to indicate that, rather a scary thought.
Morale of this story? Be very sure of what you're doing before you get involved in a situation. A concealed weapon gives you more options. The OC implications of this situation are unclear. This group was very professional, I suspect that an OC patron would have caused the lookout/backup guy to call it off...maybe. We'll never know.

[NavyVet1959]

I carried a gun in a vehicle for years in Texas, never tried to conceal it, just laid it on the dash, and I was never, ever questioned about it, even to ask if I was traveling. Now that said I was stopped just south of huntsville one night and had an empty holster on the dash, the young trooper actually went into hysterics, I thought he was going to rub a hole in my backbone with the muzzle of his pistol, he was shakeing so bad. lol

Oh, the "traveling defense" in Texas. That was a royal screw-up if there ever was one. Each DA / judge could interpret "traveling" however they wanted. For some, it required an overnight stay away from home. For others, it required the crossing of 3 county lines. For others, just simply crossing a single county line was good enough. And for others, it pretty much depended upon the phase of the moon that day. :( Plus, they would tell you that it was not possible to legally transport a handgun in your car unless you had a trunk -- so, no way if you had a hatchback, pickup, or SUV. The CHL legislation gave us some relief from that, but it wasn't until the Texas Motorist Protection Act that we finally got rid of that particular piece of Yankee oppression.

The "traveling defense" law was vague enough that any LEO could arrest you and then you would have to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. Innocent until proven guilty? Not with the "traveling defense". The DAs were only concerned with their conviction ratios and the LEOs were only concerned with their arrest count. In other words, "follow the money".

[TXGunNut]

To clarify, the "travelling exception defense to prosecution" was that if a person was travelling from one county, thru another, to a third county with the intention of staying overnight he had a defense to prosecution. A defense to prosecution is sometimes useful in court, it wouldn't necessarily keep a peace officer from hauling your butt to jail. At least that's what I was taught 30+ years ago. Cops knew who carried, if they were good people we ignored it. Another (lesser known) exception was for folks who regularly carried large amounts of cash. Rex Cauble was a local rancher who always carried two things; a wad of cash and a gun. Yes, he was convicted of federal charges of drug trafficking but most local cops, including me, know he was innocent. One night he was stopped for speeding IIRC and was arrested for carrying a weapon. Case was dismissed, he was also carrying a large amount of cash because he was a bit of a horse trader, among other things.
Google Rex Cauble if you're curious, but I can tell you he was a good man.

[Rufus Krile]

Oh, the "traveling defense" in Texas. That was a royal screw-up if there ever was one. Each DA / judge could interpret "traveling" however they wanted. For some, it required an overnight stay away from home. For others, it required the crossing of 3 county lines. For others, it depending upon the phase of the moon that day. :( Plus, they would tell you that it was not possible to legally transport a handgun in your car unless you had a trunk -- so, no way if you had a hatchback, pickup, or SUV. The CHL legislation gave us some relief from that, but it wasn't until the Texas Motorist Protection Act that we finally got rid of that particular piece of Yankee oppression.

The "traveling defense" law was vague enough that any LEO could arrest you and then you would have to PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE. Innocent until proven guilty? Not with the "traveling defense". The DAs were only concerned with their conviction ratios and the LEOs were only concerned with their arrest count. In other words, "follow the money".
Worked for years in the RGV... LEO's down there offered to loan me a pistol if I didn't have one. Had to get out and open gates out in the brush at 0200 all by myself. Learned to keep the 1911 in my hand... didn't do any good on the truck seat... kept it clipped to the steering column when not in my hand. No one ever said anything about the pistol. Well, once the Border Patrol guy at the Sarita checkpoint wanted to take issue with it but was told to bugger off. Nothing to do with federal law. The DPS trooper next to him thought it was funny. They knew I wasn't out robbing banks... it was a situational thing. They also knew that if things got western I was going to be on their team... and the intermurals were (and are) pretty serious down there.

[Rufus Krile]

Another P.S. to the "traveling defense" thankfully expired in TX... There was a "Not in pursuit of your business" clause in it that the prosecutor could have some fun with. As stated above, it all depended on the situation and the officer involved. If he thought you were a bad guy, you had a problem coming. "You might beat the charge but you'll still take the ride..."

[Walkingwolf]

That is what amazes me, Texas came through for carry in a car without a permit, but not OC. Texas officers have been shot on the side of the road. I don't think there is any recent record of those carrying long guns, and antique firearms shooting people, let alone peace officers.

[starmac]

I remember at least one case of guy using a long gun to kill a cop at a traffic stop in Texas. It has been several years, but seems like it was around Austin somewhere.

[Lonegun1894]

They also gotta know that with the open carry law, that extends to gang bangers and ragheads so if law abiding citizens carrying disturbs someone, wait til openly armed gangs start roaming the streets.

I wouldn't OC because it is too much of a temptation for some sh*tforbrains punks wif grills and baggy pants to rob you at gunpoint of your sidearm.

You are still required to have a license, regardless if carrying openly or concealed, and I doubt most gang members will bother getting licensed. Besides, they carry anyway, so what difference would it really make? Just watch anything that seems to not be right to you and most times, your instincts will be correct.

As to the OC vs CC argument, I could honestly care less how anyone carries, as long as they are being safe with it. I personally just assume everyone around me carries, regardless if they are carrying legally or not. As a Texas Peace Officer, per the law and my department policy, I have had the option to carry openly or concealed when off duty, and almost always carried concealed before this. I doubt that will change, except maybe in the hot summer months, cause let's face it, just how many layers do any of us really want to wear when it is over 100 degrees outside? I'm just glad we finally have the option (and if it ticks off a few liberals, that's just a bonus). And just between all of you and me, I'm more concerned about who knows about my badge than who knows about the 1911 or Security Six on my belt.

[rosewood]

Plus there is only one way to normalize the carry of guns in public. Concealed is fine, but it cannot normalize carry. Sooner or later you will be just like NC, where nobody bats an eye, and some people shake your hand.

This is a good point. Open Carry has become more common in my part of the state and seems the folks doing it are getting less glares than they did a few years ago. I think the locals are becoming more used to it for the reason you mention. It is becoming the "norm". Not to mention with all the new terror threats we have been having, a lot more people are seeing the need for self defense. I imagine a professional looking American with a pistol on his hip is becoming a comfort for many now who don't carry.

Rosewood

[TXGunNut]

I remember at least one case of guy using a long gun to kill a cop at a traffic stop in Texas. It has been several years, but seems like it was around Austin somewhere.

The one I'm thinking of was more than a few years ago in Wise county, that used to be a pretty rough place to be a cop. It was a .22 rifle, IIRC.

[starmac]

Could have been, seems like it was a 22, but I have slept since then. I do remember it was a disgruntled older feller that had basically threatened the leo before, no particular one, just leo in general.

[Freightman]

Well I live in Texas, and since OC came in I have seen no one OC. If I do I doubt anyone ever notices, people cant see a truck in front of them much less a little old gun :groner:

[NavyVet1959]

Well I live in Texas, and since OC came in I have seen no one OC. If I do I doubt anyone ever notices, people cant see a truck in front of them much less a little old gun :groner:

Since it is limited to those who have a CHL and the percentage of people who have CHLs are not really all that great (around 4% of adults in Harris County), the chance of seeing someone carrying is not that great. Besides, it's winter -- people are more likely to be wearing coats. Wait until when it get to 100F and see if the percentage goes up. :)

[km101]

"I must admit I'm a bit disappointed, all I've seen is plastic guns in plastic holsters. :shock:" posted by TxGunNut.

Well I'm about 30 minutes south of you and I have yet to see anyone OC other than me and my SIL. But we both carry all steel guns (compact 1911, or S&W model 60) in handmade leather holsters and belts. But even though I haven't seen anyone else OC I have seen two 30-07 signs. One in a local restaurant and one at the Time Warner cable office. This is kinda' depressing. I have friends and acquaintances who have carried for years, but are totally negative regarding OC, for many of the reasons given already. I will OC or CC depending on the conditions involved at the time, but I am glad that I now have the freedom to choose!

[MUSTANG]

Not quite in line with the "Open Carry" issue in Texas, but close (note "Alamo" set in backgorund). (For the impatient start at the 0:50 mark).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZROC380sgY

I always found this scene in the movie funny. Growing up in the Panhandle of Texas it wasn't uncommon to see the occasional person "Open Carry" or "Concealed Carry". May not have been within the law at the time, but it wasn't uncommon in the 1960's as I recall.

[TXGunNut]

"I must admit I'm a bit disappointed, all I've seen is plastic guns in plastic holsters. :shock:" posted by TxGunNut.

Well I'm about 30 minutes south of you and I have yet to see anyone OC other than me and my SIL. But we both carry all steel guns (compact 1911, or S&W model 60) in handmade leather holsters and belts. But even though I haven't seen anyone else OC I have seen two 30-07 signs. One in a local restaurant and one at the Time Warner cable office. This is kinda' depressing. I have friends and acquaintances who have carried for years, but are totally negative regarding OC, for many of the reasons given already. I will OC or CC depending on the conditions involved at the time, but I am glad that I now have the freedom to choose!

I somewhat understand about the prejudice against OC here in TX, that was the purpose of the OP. It may not make sense to folks in other states, not sure it makes sense to me. Just realized I've been carrying concealed for 35 years, I guess it may take me awhile to tuck in my shirt and show folks how I feel about this issue. It's ironic that a state with such a (supposedly) strong gun culture is all atwitter about OC. At least now when I wear a sportcoat in the summertime I can hang it up in the back seat of my car to keep it from getting wrinkled when I drive.
I haven't seen a 30.07 sign yet. Most 30.06 signs I see are non-compliant (intentionally?) and if you paid attention in TX CHL class you know to deal with them.

[waksupi]

No one pays much attention to it around here. Cops don't give you a second look usually. Tourists may do a double take. I don't like to OC personally, because you can get caught up in a conversation about guns with another gun nut while trying to buy some milk at the grocery store.

[Moonie]

FYI, Texas is the 45'th state to allow Open Carry, not 35'th. Welcome to the club, most of the states agree that it is your right. I do it all the time, have for years, rarely does anyone say anything at all. Ran into another OC'er today getting a new pair of shoes.

I hate the "I support the second amendment, as long as you do it the way I want you to" crowd, they are normally the CC only ones, or CC instructors.

I do have my concealed permit, and I do concealed carry when I have to legally but I will not tell someone else how to exercise their rights!

[Down South]

I live in Louisiana and we have had open carry as long as I can remember. I work in Houston where the new open carry just went into effect.
I don't remember in either state ever seeing anyone open carry. I'm sure there are some that do, I've just never seen them.
Concealed carry is much more valuable to me. I'd rather not have anyone knowing that I'm carrying for obvious reasons.
I open carry if I'm in the woods scouting or hunting but that's about the extent of open carry for me.
All in all, I'm surprised that Tx just allowed open carry after all these years.

[NavyVet1959]

All in all, I'm surprised that Tx just allowed open carry after all these years.

It's a slow process, but we're slowly throwing off the last vestiges of Yankee oppression.

[TheDoctor]

A whiplash effect I have been noticing. A lot of convenience stores here that never had any sign at all, have started posting both 30.06 and 30.07 signs. Now, robbery in my town is very rare. Don't remember the last time a store got held up. But, what type of establishment would you think should be the most receptive of license holders? There is one store now that I OC in, and they do not bat an eye. The rest of them, well, I guess they can survive without my money.

My main bit of happiness with the new law is that carrying concealed in violation of a sign is now only a class c misdemeanor. And if anyone sees you, you are not concealing very well anyway.

[NavyVet1959]

My main bit of happiness with the new law is that carrying concealed in violation of a sign is now only a class c misdemeanor. And if anyone sees you, you are not concealing very well anyway.

But will that Class C misdemeanor prevent you from getting your license renewed the next time around or cause your current one to get suspended? With a max fine of $500, that's enough of an incentive for an anti-2nd-Amendment DA to push the issue to add to the city's / county's revenue. It seems that they change things periodically and I haven't kept up on the finer points of the requirements.

From what I've gathered, only about 4% of Texans have a CHL. Once you factor in the people who have one but don't carry all the time and those who have one but would never open carry, I guess it's not that surprising that we don't see many people open carrying. I have yet to see a single person. The weather's been cool, so I've been wearing a jacket, but I'm not so concerned with whether the barrel sticks out of the edge of the jacket anymore. I'm also not concerned with stepping across my property line when open carrying on my own property when I need to roll the trash cans out onto the street.

[Down South]

Changing the subject just a little. I remember reading an article a while back from the anti-gun crowd.
Whenever they saw someone open carry they were going to call 911 and report a suspicious person with a handgun. I laughed when law enforcement responded by letting the anti-gun folks know they would be the ones arrested if a false report was called in.

[Down South]

I see very few 30.06 signs and usually they aren't legally displayed. They are one of the following. The wrong size, not posted at each entrance, posted at the wrong place at the entrance where they are hard to see, etc. I've yet to see a 30.07 sign but I don't get out a lot.
Depending on where the 30.06 sign is, is how I either disregard it or avoid going in.
I make a mental note of the locations where I have seen these signs and take my business elsewhere.

[Char-Gar]

We are now 17 days into open carry in Texas and I have yet to see it.

[TheDoctor]

[QUOTE=NavyVet1959;3509075]But will that Class C misdemeanor prevent you from getting your license renewed the next time around or cause your current one to get suspended? With a max fine of $500, that's enough of an incentive for an anti-2nd-Amendment DA to push the issue to add to the city's / county's revenue. It seems that they change things periodically and I haven't kept up on the finer points of the requirements.

From TXDPS website.

Effective January 1, 2016, it is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200 for a license holder to carry a concealed handgun onto private property after receiving effective notice under §30.06, Texas Penal Code, or to openly carry a handgun onto private property after receiving effective notice under §30.07, Texas Penal Code. Note, after January 1, 2016, the offense will be enhanced to a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown at trial that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) (of §30.06 or §30.07)and subsequently failed to depart.

[Markbo]

We are now 17 days into open carry in Texas and I have yet to see it.

Me neither. Much ado about nothing. I just came from Tractor Supply... a place you would guess would be a place you would see it. Not one

[Down South]

A whiplash effect I have been noticing. A lot of convenience stores here that never had any sign at all, have started posting both 30.06 and 30.07 signs. Now, robbery in my town is very rare. Don't remember the last time a store got held up. But, what type of establishment would you think should be the most receptive of license holders? There is one store now that I OC in, and they do not bat an eye. The rest of them, well, I guess they can survive without my money.

My main bit of happiness with the new law is that carrying concealed in violation of a sign is now only a class c misdemeanor. And if anyone sees you, you are not concealing very well anyway.
You guys can correct me if I am wrong.
In my opinion, a concealed carry can now evade an accidental brandish charge due to the new OC law.
Example: You are concealed carrying IWB or OWB with a jacket or shirt over your carry. You reach for something on a top shelf momentarily exposing your carry. No anti-gun person can legally complain or turn you in for brandishing.
Just my .02 and may not make any sense.

[NavyVet1959]

Me neither. Much ado about nothing. I just came from Tractor Supply... a place you would guess would be a place you would see it. Not one

Well, Tractor Supply is not that large of a store, but let's say that they had 20 customers in it while you were there and you saw all 20 of them. On average, less than 1 of those customers had a CHL and then you have to factor in the probability that that one person would also be one of the people who want to open carry. Since you were there and I assume you have a CHL, *you* were the perhaps the only person who was licensed to carry and as such, it was up to *you* to open carry. :)

[Down South]

Maybe someone from Tx can answer this question. I've Goggled this but I can't find anything related to my question so here goes;
I am a Louisiana resident with a concealed carry permit. I'm aware that Tx & La reciprocate which means that I can carry concealed in either state and be legal. I actually spend much more time in Tx than I do in La.
How does the new Tx OC law effect me if I was to decide to OC in Tx? Does my CCW from La still cover me for OC in Tx?

[NavyVet1959]

Maybe someone from Tx can answer this question. I've Goggled this but I can't find anything related to my question so here goes;
I am a Louisiana resident with a concealed carry permit. I'm aware that Tx & La reciprocate which means that I can carry concealed in either state and be legal. I actually spend much more time in Tx than I do in La.
How does the new Tx OC law effect me if I was to decide to OC in Tx? Does my CCW from La still cover me for OC in Tx?

There is no distinction in the open carry legislation that I've found that says that it must be a Texas CHL that you carry. I have a Nevada CHL myself because they do not recognize the Texas CHL whereas Texas *does* recognize the Nevada CHL. Nevada and a couple other states decided to no longer recognize the Texas CHL once we allowed military members who are less than 21 to get a CHL. It would have made more sense if they had just said that they recognize the Texas CHL *as long as* the person is 21 or older. There's VERY FEW people in Texas that are under 21 and have a CHL anyway, so it should have not been an issue.

[rosewood]

Read an article yesterday saying that Waffle House has had a lot of crime occur at it's restaurants in the last couple of years. However, they failed to mention that Waffle House has posted "No firearms" on their doors at their locations. Reckon the issues are related?? Hmm.....

[NavyVet1959]

Read an article yesterday saying that Waffle House has had a lot of crime occur at it's restaurants in the last couple of years. However, they failed to mention that Waffle House has posted "No firearms" on their doors at their locations. Reckon the issues are related?? Hmm.....

An article about this incident?
Naked woman goes on rampage at Georgia Waffle House (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/15/naked-woman-goes-on-rampage-at-georgia-waffle-house.html)

[TheDoctor]

The accidental branish and printing issue had been resolved and a non-issue before open carry came into effect. As long as the branishing was not intentional. Now since we have open carry, if someone was carrying concealed and intentionally exposed a gun to someone, that is something I am unsure of. It is quite probably that it would be considered a threatening gesture. Will need to be something to ask my attorney about.

[Lonegun1894]

Maybe someone from Tx can answer this question. I've Goggled this but I can't find anything related to my question so here goes;
I am a Louisiana resident with a concealed carry permit. I'm aware that Tx & La reciprocate which means that I can carry concealed in either state and be legal. I actually spend much more time in Tx than I do in La.
How does the new Tx OC law effect me if I was to decide to OC in Tx? Does my CCW from La still cover me for OC in Tx?

As per TX DPS and what they teach instructors, your out of State license is just as good as a Texas license and has all the same benefits and limitations as a Texas license while you're in Texas, and my Texas license is just as good anywhere else it is honored, BUT you and I have to follow local State law. Basically, make sure you follow TX law when in TX, cause you don't want to be having a DA explaining to you that "We don't give a hoot how you do it at home, you're here now" -- Apparently my local DA had this conversation with someone recently regarding a non-gun-related law. So make sure you know TX law, or any other State you go to, but that goes for all of us.

[NavyVet1959]

The accidental branish and printing issue had been resolved and a non-issue before open carry came into effect. As long as the branishing was not intentional. Now since we have open carry, if someone was carrying concealed and intentionally exposed a gun to someone, that is something I am unsure of. It is quite probably that it would be considered a threatening gesture. Will need to be something to ask my attorney about.

An argument could definitely be made that he was just switching from concealed carry to open carry. Perfectly legal...

[Lonegun1894]

It is no longer an issue now that we have OC. The whole printing/brandishing thing was fixed when people were getting hassled by a few bad apples when their jacket would blow open walking across a parking lot or when their shirt would ride up when reaching for a high shelf, things like that. Hasn't been an issue in a few years now, but used to be even though it shouldn't have been.

[Walkingwolf]

You guys can correct me if I am wrong.
In my opinion, a concealed carry can now evade an accidental brandish charge due to the new OC law.
Example: You are concealed carrying IWB or OWB with a jacket or shirt over your carry. You reach for something on a top shelf momentarily exposing your carry. No anti-gun person can legally complain or turn you in for brandishing.
Just my .02 and may not make any sense.

I don't know Texas brandishing laws, but I would say off hand that waving a gun around, or pointing to it, or making remarks about a gun to intimidate could still result in a brandishing charge.

Here in NC we have a common law charge of going to the terror of the people. Open carry is not going to the terror, but waving a gun around is, or verbally accosting people carrying a gun. And it does not have to be a gun, it can be a tire iron.

[Don Fischer]

This is stupid. Why in the world if your carrying for self defense would you carry open? Nothing like knowing where the gun's are before the attack begins!

[Walkingwolf]

This is stupid. Why in the world if your carrying for self defense would you carry open? Nothing like knowing where the gun's are before the attack begins!

Got any citations to back that up? So far I have seen very little to indicate that crimes are committed around OC. But yet we read reports of CCers being victims, most time surviving victims, but still victims.

I prefer not to need a gun in the first place as to being a hero.

ETA the law does not force YOU to OC, or even carry. Why do you care how someone else carries, let alone calling it stupid. That seems like a ignorant attitude to take.

[NavyVet1959]

This is stupid. Why in the world if your carrying for self defense would you carry open? Nothing like knowing where the gun's are before the attack begins!

Yep... That's why all patrol officers carry concealed, right?

How many LEOs do you hear being robbed while in uniform and open carrying? How many LEOs do you hear about where the criminal *tried* to rob them when they were not in uniform and carrying concealed? Criminals are lazy -- they go after the easy (i.e. less risk) target.

[skeettx]

Amarillo Texas I have NOT seen an open carry here in town
:)
LOTs of folks here do carry concealed,
Why be a target at the start of an altercation?
Mike

[slim1836]

I've seen one OC in a stake house a couple of weeks ago and none since. You could tell he was uncomfortable as he kept checking to make sure it was still in his holster on his hip. His discomfort was very evident, to the point it made me (and the restaurant owner) keep an eye on him.

Slim

[Down South]

I've seen one OC in a stake house a couple of weeks ago and none since. You could tell he was uncomfortable as he kept checking to make sure it was still in his holster on his hip. His discomfort was very evident, to the point it made me (and the restaurant owner) keep an eye on him.




Slim
Sounds like an amateur. I've concealed carried for a lot of years. I carry every day. My piece is part of me and I unconscionably know that my piece is where it is supposed to be and and in correct position.
If I was to OC, It would be the same. I've OC all of my life in the woods and around the house, never a problem worrying about my carry. I could walk and sit in any business and not have to consider "If I was right" concealed or OC.

[Lonegun1894]

I don't know Texas brandishing laws, but I would say off hand that waving a gun around, or pointing to it, or making remarks about a gun to intimidate could still result in a brandishing charge.

Here in NC we have a common law charge of going to the terror of the people. Open carry is not going to the terror, but waving a gun around is, or verbally accosting people carrying a gun. And it does not have to be a gun, it can be a tire iron.

You're right, but we had cases of people being charged with it because their shirt rode up when reaching for something on a store shelf, and other stupid stuff like that. To the point that they modified the law to say that inadvertently showing your weapon is NOT an offense if corrected. Basically, it was a matter of you could have been arrested for carrying openly because the wind blew your jacket open while walking across the parking lot, so they changed it to you're not going to get arrested if the same thing happens and you cover it back up. Still couldn't carry openly and just leave it exposed (til a couple weeks ago), but accidentally showing was OKd. Now to be fair, most officers wouldn't hassle you about accidentally showing, but we had a few running around the State that apparently followed the letter of the law instead of using a bit of common sense, so we had to make it fool proof. And now we don't have to worry about it, thankfully. Personally, I haven't ever given anyone any grief for showing, but I have made a few comments to people to let them know they're showing as I walked past, weather I was in uniform or not.

I have seen a handful of people OC, but it's few and far between.

[Markbo]

Heck I may just strap on and go cut the grass tomorrow just so everyone can see somebody OCing! ;)

[Down South]

Heck I may just strap on and go cut the grass tomorrow just so everyone can see somebody OCing! ;)
Go for it. I used to do the same thing when I had my old place in La. I made a bunch of rat shot loads for my 357 Mag and 44 Mag that would take out a carpenter bee that wanted to hover over me just out of my bee bat range. I could blow his butt out of the sky with one of those. It was a lot of fun and a great conversation piece when folks would come over to visit.

When I bush-hogged my pasture behind the house, I always wore my Taurus Judge 410 on the tractor with 7-1/2 shot. It was my rat gun. Rats were always trying to escape my bush hog. For some reason most of them always ran out in between my front and rear tractor tires on the bush hogged side. Easy shot from draw from my belt holster to kill.
The next day was a blast too. Coyotes would come to my pasture the next day from smelling the dead rats for an easy meal. I'd set up on on my front porch with a rest with a cold one,,,errrr, several cold ones and wait. The reason for the rest is it was a 300 yd shot all the way across my pasture.

Oh, on edit; I've come close to being arrested for having too much fun but those are different stories that I might tell someday.

[NavyVet1959]

Go for it. I used to do the same thing when I had my old place in La. I made a bunch of rat shot loads for my 357 Mag and 44 Mag that would take out a carpenter bee that wanted to hover over me just out of my bee bat range. I could blow his butt out of the sky with one of those.

Instead of using rat shot, use a wax bullet. Normally the wax bullet rounds are fired with just the primer for inside practice, but if you put a couple of grains of powder over a wad separating the powder from the wax, the wax comes out as more of a spray, but it's pretty short range. I have killed a rat with one though. Actually, it looked like he had a Brazilian wax job on the side of his body that I hit. I also embed spent primer cups in the wax.

[Down South]

I don't think a wax bullet load would work for what I used them for but it does sound interesting. I used a full load of rat shot and would have to shoot rats twice every once in a while for a clean kill. I don't remember my load data but it was fairly simple. It was a small amount of fast burning powder, a gas check turned right side up inside the case over the powder charge. I have a special home made tool to seat the gas check over the powder charge.
Fill the case with #12 shot to top of the case, sit another gas check upside down on top and make sure that it is even with the top of the case and run through the crimp die. It makes a pretty handgun ratshot load that will stay together until fired.
The most you have to worry about is the two gas checks. They can destroy gutters around the edges of the house. Don't ask me how I know.

[bear67]

I live in rural East Texas and I have seen only 5 open carrying. I carried on the first day simply because I could, but the coffee shop in Troup or the feed store was not a test. I still conceal daily, but would wear open if I thought there was a reason for that day and place. It does give us leeway when it is hot and concealed carry is harder to accomplish--half exposed is just an accident and maybe some old lady or the MADD ladies will not call 911 for a man with a gun. This is a step in the right direction. Remember 1996 when we first got CHL license--we thought it was a baby step in the right direction. This is just another step. Just remember that Texas State Rifle Association and NRA and lots of good Texas gun folks helped this happen this session of the legislature and we passed other positive legislation. Just baby steps. And we have been able to open carry 18 days now and blood is not running in the street.

[NavyVet1959]

I don't think a wax bullet load would work for what I used them for but it does sound interesting. I used a full load of rat shot and would have to shoot rats twice every once in a while for a clean kill. I don't remember my load data but it was fairly simple. It was a small amount of fast burning powder, a gas check turned right side up inside the case over the powder charge. I have a special home made tool to seat the gas check over the powder charge.
Fill the case with #12 shot to top of the case, sit another gas check upside down on top and make sure that it is even with the top of the case and run through the crimp die. It makes a pretty handgun ratshot load that will stay together until fired.
The most you have to worry about is the two gas checks. They can destroy gutters around the edges of the house. Don't ask me how I know.

I use a small wad of paper towel packed tight on the powder and then fill up case with spent primers and then press a lot of wax down around the primers to keep it as a single piece for as long as it is loaded in the chamber. With a .22LR piece of brass for a dipper and dipping 1 or 2 of them, the wax becomes a wax spray, even without the spent primer cups. It's for close range work where you don't want a chance of any damage to a house, cedar fence, or your car in case of a ricochet.

[Lonegun1894]

Heck I may just strap on and go cut the grass tomorrow just so everyone can see somebody OCing! ;)

Beat you to it, did it this afternoon, but then again, I've been doing it for many years. OC has always been legal on private property, and for some reason the neighborhood turds leave my place alone even when they go and mess with my neighbors. Not sure if it's me, my 1911, or the Mastiff that pretty much stays glued to my side, but they get the message.

[TXGunNut]

This is stupid. Why in the world if your carrying for self defense would you carry open? Nothing like knowing where the gun's are before the attack begins!


One very good reason: because it's my right to do so. I choose not to OC but when & if I do I can assure you the silly perp that considers me an easy target is mere seconds (or less) away from an ugly reality check. I may look like just another old guy with a beard but I have a long history as a cop and a comp shooter. I don't feel it's my job to drain the shallow end of the gene pool but if the situation calls for it I'll not especially willing but certainly able.

[rosewood]

An article about this incident?
Naked woman goes on rampage at Georgia Waffle House (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/01/15/naked-woman-goes-on-rampage-at-georgia-waffle-house.html)

No, but I think that was one of the things mentioned in the article I read. There was also a discussion about 3 guys robbing one and several more recent accounts. I think it was on the Foxnews app.

[Markbo]

Well being in a suburban subdivision I dont think I can get away with all that. :D

[Lonegun1894]

Well being in a suburban subdivision I dont think I can get away with all that. :D

Same here. I live in a town of a bit over 100K people. I can't do things like dove hunt in my front yard, of shoot the geese that were flying over the house last night, but I can carry on my private property all I want, and how I want. I mean, I was mowing my yard, not waving it around pointing it at people or doing anything else threatening. If my neighbors don't like it, well, just wait cause I hope to move out of town, and the sooner the better.

[Lonegun1894]

It wouldn't let me edit...

Or were you talking about the pest loads? If that was it, I don't blame you. Not that I don't think I could get away with it, but just that I try to keep my pest control quiet to be more discreet. Pellet gun works overtime around my garden.

[Down South]

Saw my first 30.07 sign today. It was at a local Fiesta that I frequent every once in a while just a couple miles down the road. Don't know if it was legally posted or not but I was carrying concealed so it didn't affect me.

[Markbo]

Looks legal to me.

[Down South]

Looks legal to me.
Since you are in Tomball, you may frequent a Fiesta in your area since Tx seems to be full of them. I'm curious to know if it is a store chain restriction or independent store restriction. If you get a chance, take a look.

[Markbo]

Ill try and swing by one tomorrow

[TXGunNut]

Does appear to be a compliant sign as long as the letters are 1" tall, IIRC.

[Lonegun1894]

For what it's worth, the HEB closest to me is posted with a 30.07 sign also. Going to have to go around a few of the other local ones and see if it's just this one or all of them.

[Nueces]

We saw a lot of 30.06 signs 20 years ago, when concealed carry was new, but they tended to disappear after folks settled down some. I expect the same with these 30.07 signs, but it might take longer. Not worried.

[TXGunNut]

We saw a lot of 30.06 signs 20 years ago, when concealed carry was new, but they tended to disappear after folks settled down some. I expect the same with these 30.07 signs, but it might take longer. Not worried.

I think that if enough store managers hear from responsible and articulate gun owners things will change. I'm part of the problem here because my favorite restaurant still doesn't know how I feel about their new (and non-compliant) 30.06 sign.
A few guidelines:
Introduce yourself. Tell them how long you've done business with the company and why you do (did) business with them.
Briefly explain why an armed person going about their business is rarely noticed by most folks.
Explain to them that as a Texas Handgun License holder you have passed a much more rigorous background investigation than thousands of Syrian refugees. ( I know, bad example)
Explain that mass shootings almost always happen in gun free zones and a 30.06 or a 30.07 makes their business a gun free zone...except to criminals.
Explain that many handgun licensees will simply quit patronizing a business that does not agree with their right to bear arms in self defense while ignoring the fact that criminals will always defy the 30.06 (and possibly 30.07) signs to prey on an unarmed business.
Above all, be respectful. When we enter the premises of a business we are guests, not entitled occupants. If we (in TX) are asked to leave private property we should comply immediately.
Bottom line, as we say around here, vote with your wallet. If you feel it will do any good let management know how responsible (and irresponsible )gun owners truly feel about his sign. It's quite possible they have no idea, if mainstream media influenced their decision that's quite likely the case.

[NavyVet1959]

Explain that many handgun licensees will simply quit patronizing a business that does not agree with their right to bear arms in self defense while ignoring the fact that criminals will always defy the 30.06 (and possibly 30.07) signs to prey on an unarmed business.
Above all, be respectful. When we enter the premises of a business we are guests, not entitled occupants. If we (in TX) are asked to leave private property we should comply immediately.
Bottom line, as we say around here, vote with your wallet. If you feel it will do any good let management know how responsible (and irresponsible )gun owners truly feel about his sign. It's quite possible they have no idea, if mainstream media influenced their decision that's quite likely the case.

Using the 4% figure for Harris County... Even if all CHL holders quit going to stores with 30.06 or 30.07 signs, that's just 5% of their revenue. Do they think that by placing those signs it will increase their business by 4%?

People will need to acclimate to open carry. We've been under that particular remnant o Yankee oppression for a lot longer than anyone current around has been alive. The sheeple don't realize that we've been carrying concealed legally (and many illegally, but morally) for a long time and there just is not the blood running in the streets that the sky-is-falling leftists originally said was going to happen.

[Markbo]

Theres one on a local Fiesta so Im guessing its all of them

[Down South]

Theres one on a local Fiesta so Im guessing its all of them
If Fiesta has a web site which they probably do, Maybe several of us can make complaints and explanations of why we will start shopping at Kroger, They may be influenced to change their policy.

[Lonegun1894]

Excellent idea, Down South. I'm going to use it with HEB also.

[NavyVet1959]

Had to go to the airport this morning to drop my wife off for a flight to Charlotte, NC. Didn't feel like wearing a jacket, so 10mm M1911 OC in Kydex OWB holster. Didn't take long to move her luggage from trunk to sidewalk, so probably no one noticed. If they did, then no one cared. It's nice at least having the *option* to not put on a covering garment for a change.

[TXGunNut]

Good point, NavyVet. I don't like wearing a jacket when I'm driving and slipping it on or off without exposing my 1911 in an OWB holster is a bit tricky.

[jcwit]

Had to go to the airport this morning to drop my wife off for a flight to Charlotte, NC. Didn't feel like wearing a jacket, so 10mm M1911 OC in Kydex OWB holster. Didn't take long to move her luggage from trunk to sidewalk, so probably no one noticed. If they did, then no one cared. It's nice at least having the *option* to not put on a covering garment for a change.

We have the same option here in Indiana, makes life much easier.

[Markbo]

IWB solves those issues. ;)

[TXGunNut]

Finally saw an OC I was proud of today. He was well dressed and well armed. Looked like a Sig 220 in a tooled leather holster with a matching double mag pouch on a nice beaded belt. He was well dressed, considering we were shopping at a farm & ranch supply store in Gainesville. (Atwoods) Somebody asked him about it; he introduced himself, shook his new friend's hand and told him a bit about open carry. I wanted to shake his hand myself, he's the kind of ambassador the OC folks need.

[NavyVet1959]

IWB solves those issues. ;)

And gives you other issues... There is no one perfect solution.

Just like not carrying a spare tire saves you from having to ever change a flat on your car. :)

[Nose Dive]

Well guys...I just checked my temp gauge here in San Antonio and it shows 58 and have a nice north breeze at about 5MPH. Not a cloud in the sky. So, today, Super Bowl Sunday, am running to my WALMART here in North Bexar County and put in provisions for the ball game.

Here in Bexar County, HEB, COSTCO, TARGET, and other such store proprietors don't like open carry. I have not seen ONE, not ONE, 30.07 sign. So, 5th of January I open carried into my old HEB and the store manager asked me to put my .45 in my vest and not scare the 'little old ladies' in his establishment. I complied, and left.

Now, when it gets to be 101 or so down here, and say 80% or so humidity, I am not going to have on a vest or jacket. Probably a T-shirt, shorts, sandals sans socks, (yes, and appropriate undergarments), and that will be about it. Oh...sorry...probably a hat of some fashion.

So now, at hi temp, we do have a 'concealed carry' issue. My ole 1911 is to big to put in my shorts, (OK,OK,OK, 'stomach size' does come into play here as a 'waistband comfort' issue). So, under a T shirt can hardly be seen as 'concealed' and putting a 1911 under a baseball cap would really require the balancing expertise of one of the "FLYING LAWENDA' family members. And certainly, an 'under cap' carry would pose distinct disadvantages when one tried to retrieve ones wallet from his hip pocket, or, opening a truck door, or reaching into a dairy cooler for a carton of milk.

So know if we wish to open carry, as I do, being concealed by Texas definition is very difficult. You may or may not agree.

To alleviate this issue, our elected government and governor provided us with OPEN CARRY of hand guns and all is now legal. We did have LONG GUN CARRY, but, you, here, again, may agree or disagree, this could prove cumbersome at the vegetable counter, dairy case and check out-bagging counter at supermarkets. And, certainly attempting to drive with an AR across your back would, to me, be uncomfortable.

So, I again offer, open carry of sidearms, just makes sense and all should do it. TO ME, (again, all are open to disagree), concealed carry laws are cumbersome and in South Texas during the summer, I suggest a person in a long, warm coat would be broadcasting..."ROBBERY".... I mean, if one saw a person in a long coat and hat, in the middle of summer, in a store, where all other store patrons were adorned in 'minimal essential attire'... would it not at the very least...draw some undue attention and put the persons motives for such attire under scrutiny?

So, in summer, in South Texas, 'why open carry?'... well gents,,,it is just too darn hot not to.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Rufus Krile]

I agree with Nose Dive about the need for OC in hot weather down here... it gets kinda toasty around August and September. That said, I really don't like being the only one sporting some of the new tupperware fashions in a 'stop-and-rob'. Not crazy about 9mm but the LC9 disappears in a pocket holster in anything but gym shorts. Yeah, I'd rather have the 1911 but it makes my bib overalls hang funny... and sartorial mediocrity is my goal. As a general rule, no white sneakers before Easter or after Labor day. But I am no slave to fashion.

[Lonegun1894]

Rufus,
I have a way to prevent your bibs from hanging funny due to a 1911 on one side. Simply put another 1911 on the other side. Better now? Glad I could be there for you in your time of need. :kidding:

[Down South]

I'm with several of you guys about the heat here in the summer. I get down to shorts and a tee shirt.
I'd rather carry one of my 1911's but it's impossible to conceal one without putting on a second shirt. I've tried the IWB and It just doesn't work for me.
I've been packing a Sig P238 in a Sneaky Pete Holster during the hotter months. Not my choice of caliber but easy to conceal.
I'm not much on open carry but I agree that it should be legal and available to any honest citizen.
I prefer to conceal carry for my own reasons. Hopefully Tx will someday allow open carry without having to have a CHL. My home state of Louisiana allows open carry without a CHL.

I saw a post several posts up about one of our members being asked to conceal their piece in HEB. I did a little research several weeks ago after I discovered a 30.07 sign at my local Fiesta.
Fiesta and HEB both have decided to display 30.07 signs according to their management. Kroger on the other hand, declined to post 30.07 signs.
I can't remember where I found the info but there is a site out there listing businesses that are placing or have management approval for placing 30.07 signs.

I did go to the Fiesta web site and filed a complaint. I let them know that I would be doing most of my grocery shopping at Kroger from now on.
Fiesta replied back letting me know that would be my best option. Evidently they don't care.

[NavyVet1959]

Yeah, I'd rather have the 1911 but it makes my bib overalls hang funny...

I've wondered about carrying technique while wearing bib overalls. Seems that even with a paddle holster, the gun would be riding too high.

Without belt loops, most belt type holsters would probably shift around too much. Maybe one of the old heavy military equipment belts?

http://wardenssupplyco.com/shop/images/PB%202.JPG

Those things were heavy enough that you didn't need belt loops for it to stay in place. I still have one of those from when I was in the Navy. Don't remember what we used them for. When pulling SP duty, I seem to remember that we had the cotton white versions at at least a couple of the bases I was on. Maybe when I was in a MAA TAD billet? Too many decades have passed... Don't remember anymore... Damn... Nearly 40 years... Sure seems to cloud the memory...

[GaryN]

Here you go.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/IMG_20160101_120148-1_zpsl7el9ysx.jpg

What happens if they take out your right hand? (I know I know it was just a joke.)

[NavyVet1959]

Here you go.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/IMG_20160101_120148-1_zpsl7el9ysx.jpg

I guess he's ready for some new type of "3 gun competition"?

[Markbo]

Fellahs, it is February and shorts an T shirt is already my daily dress unless Im at work. Summers here are brutally hot. Sweating is not an if...its a how much. NavyVet is absolutely correct...there is no one perfect option. And that's exactly why I have several different options. I have no problem dropping a .45 Xd or even a 9mm KelTec into my pocket vs holstering up a Commander sized 1911.

BUT... I do not feel it is my duty to open carry any more than it is my duty to seek out and stop bad guys. My responsibility is my family and my personal well being and no more. I am not a vigilante - and I am not accusing anyone of being one - I am just a citizen protecting me and mine.

[NavyVet1959]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08/open-carry-in-texas-much-ado-about-nothing-despite-doomsayers-predictions.html?intcmp=hpbt1



Open carry in Texas 'much ado about nothing,' despite doomsayers' predictions

Open carry in Texas began not with a bang, but a whimper.

The new, and somewhat controversial law allowing licensed gun owners to carry their firearms openly in public took effect Jan. 1. Predictions that the law would cause panic or even put the public in danger have, so far, proven to be off-target.

“We do not have anything interesting to report,” Cpl. Tracey Knight of the Fort Worth Police Department said to a local newspaper, the Star-Telegram (http://www.star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article55153900.html). “Two calls so far, no issues. We have no concerns and we have had no problems.”

Critics believed a public unaccustomed to seeing guns carried openly would call police out of fear. But no such complaints were filed in January in Tarrant County, where Fort Worth is the county seat.

“I said before this became law that I thought it was going to be much ado about nothing but I didn’t know it was going to be this much nothing,” Tarrant Sheriff Dee Anderson told the Star-Telegram.

Other counties in the Lone Star State have reported few, if any, complaints related to the law in the first month of 2016.

In Bastrop County, despite anticipation that there would be a flood of 911 calls, none were logged the first weekend that the law went into effect.

Contrary to widespread perception, Texas' gun laws have long been among the strictest in the nation. Carrying handguns was first restricted by local legislature in 1871. In 1995, the law was changed to allow for concealed carry permits. The new, open-carry law was passed last year.

According to figures from the Texas Department of Public Safety, only 3.4 percent of the state’s 27 million residents have any sort of license to carry a firearm. While the new law allows licensed owners to openly display their weapons, it also allows private businesses to implement their own bans.

Many privately owned businesses across the state have implemented their own ban in the New Year as well as national chains, including Starbucks, Jack in The Box, and Chipotle. As required by law, the businesses must post separate signs for their bans on both open and concealed carry.

Other businesses see no issue and will allow customers to open carry, including The Home Depot and Bass Pro Shops.

Law enforcement authorities are not enthusiastic about the law. A recent survey by the Texas Police Chief’s Association found that 75 per cent of police chiefs in the state oppose the law. But those polled also agreed overwhelmingly that licenses should be required and that handguns should be holstered. Texas is among 15 states that require a permit.

“We have concerns,” James McLaughlin, executive director of the police chiefs association, said to the Dallas Morning News (http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2015/02/survey-of-nearly-200-texas-police-chiefs-shows-that-nearly-75-percent-oppose-open-carry.html/). “And hopefully some of those concerns can be addressed.”


Apparently the percentage of police chiefs that believe in our constitutional rights is less than the percentage of rank and file officers.

[Lonegun1894]

They never called to ask any opinions from my department, but then again, being a small agency, I guess we don't count. Our agency is pro-gun though, so they wouldn't get the answer they wanted.

[Markbo]

I didnt ask any police opinions either. I dont need their permission or their approval to do ANYthing in my life

[NavyVet1959]

I didnt ask any police opinions either. I dont need their permission or their approval to do ANYthing in my life

For the most part, I believe that police should be enforcing the laws that are enacted by the legislature, not influencing how laws are written. Of course, they should use discretion in their enforcement since not every law is constitutional nor are they moral. If an officer does not think that a law is constitutional or moral, he should not enforce it. If he chooses to enforce EVERY law out there, regardless of how unconstitutional or immoral it might be, he is nothing more than a jackbooted thug and deserves exactly what awaited those at Nuremberg who also just claimed that they were "just following orders" or "just doing their jobs".

When the legislature allows police to have input on how laws are written, you have to wonder what is next... Are they going to ask the opinion of pedophiles on how child molestation laws are written? Nawh, I don't think so...

https://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyhf3klasN1ro91bjo1_250.gif

[Lonegun1894]

I didnt ask any police opinions either. I dont need their permission or their approval to do ANYthing in my life

My comment was in reference to the poll, which by definition asks for opinions, that was supposedly done. I never said to ask for permission, cause I don't either. I was trying to say that a lot of agencies, like mine, see themselves as being there to help protect people's rights and, and that includes the right to choose if they will OC or CC, or not at all, with a preference that all be armed. I did say my department is very pro-gun, remember? A lot of them are, but putting that on the news doesn't fit the agenda.