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View Full Version : Been looking for a 94 Winnie in 30/30 - found a Ranger - now a couple ???



bedbugbilly
01-04-2016, 10:53 PM
I'm like most folks . . . you buy the dies, brass, etc. and THEN start looking for something to shoot them in. :-)

I've had reloading 30/30 on my "bucket list" a long time. I have also had a couple of 94s slip away from me over the years. Back when I was a kid, my Dad bought a very nice 94 in 32 Special. We shot it a few times and then when the Centennial model came out in 1966, he wanted one so he traded the 32 special in on it. He liked looking at the gold receiver in the gun cabinet! It was pretty but it was a looker, not a shooter so it never got fired. LOL

Then when I got married, we used to go up to the UP and I'd hunt with my father-in-law. Sometimes I'd use his Winchester 94 30/30 that he had bought back in the early 1930s. Good honest wear from many hunts and smooth as butter. When they sold their place and went to Florida, I mentioned that if he was going to get rid of his 94, I'd really like to have it and would pay whatever he wanted for it. He and I didn't always see "eye to eye" - he could be a very "difficult" person to say the least. Well they moved, he gave his guns to his son (who if he made a $1 would spend five). My lovely brother in law only kept them for a month or so and sold all his Dad's guns in a garage sale to get the money. A shame but sometimes you can't fix stupid . . . .

Then when my Dad died, my brother and I split the guns he had and I took a Golden Spike model and a Canadian Centennial - both NIB and unfired. Since my brother is the only one who hunts now, I just took those two and a Winchester 22 that was Dads as it was very sentimental to me. My brother took the rest of the guns - he too was more interested in what "things were worth" rather than some of them had a lot of sentiment attached to them. I gave the Golden Spike to my cousin - my Dad's nephew - as I wanted him to have it for a keepsake from my Dad to be passed on to his son. I eventually sold the Canadian Centennial as I felt it was too nice to shoot and there was no sentiment attached to it.

And thus, my search for a decent 94 began. Well last week, I was checking the site of a LGS that I have purchased a number of handguns from and they had two 32 specials listed, a pre 64 Model 94, etc. I ran down to take a look at them but was sorely disappointed. Both 32 Specials had been rode hard and put away wet . . . I mean really HARD. Both pre 64 flat bands and while I don't mind "honest wear" and am more concerned with mechanical condition . . . one looked like it had been refinished in a junior high shop project and the other had some major stock damage and a extremely poor bore - by the time the stock was replaced with a correct replacement - it would have been more $$ than it was worth. I spotted the pre 64 30/30 and picked it up - didn't look bad from a distance until I got it where I could look at it. Somebody had mounted a side mount scope bracket to the side of the receiver - five very large screws held it on. I didn't want a scope on whatever I ended up with and I could just visualize how the receiver would look like swiss cheese when the mount was removed. The rear sight had been removed . . . by the dings on the barrel they must have used a pick and overall, it looked like a mess.

So . .. . I went down the rack and spotted a Winchester 94 30/30 "Ranger". This thing looked like it had just come off the production line. It had the cross pin safety on it that I wasn't too thrilled about but I kept looking and overtime I kept going back to it. After much consideration, I decided if I wanted something to shoot, this little carbine would probably do just fine and looked like it would be a lot of fun. At least it would do until I can finally find a decent pre 64 Model 94 . . . whether it be 30/30 or 32 Special. And, I could live with the cross button safety.

No box or papers but the salesman said it was consigned by friend of his who had gotten it as a present but ever used it . . . he just wanted to get rid of it as he wanted to buy a 30-36 to play with. They had $350 on it and for the excellent, unfired shape it is in, I thought that it was a fair price for what I had seen some of them listed for on some auction sites. It obviously is a later production since it has the cross pin safety. Some died in the wool collectors will claim that it is not a "real Winchester". But hey, I bought it to shoot and have fun - not as a collectible piece. It was made at the same place that Winchesters were made, by the same employees and it is marked Winchester on the barrel. So if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . . to me, it's a "duck"! LOL I even splurged and bought a bag of 50 new Winchester casings to supplement my meager collection of bits and pieces of 1 X fired brass I've been accumulating as I could.

Now . . . . . for a couple of questions!

1. All I will be shooting for now is cast - I have a 117 grain Lyman mold now that I will use for cat sneeze play. I want to end up with a mold in 150 ish grain weight and probably 170 - 175 ish grain weight. No . . .I haven't "slugged" the bore yet but will. I will load some dummy rounds to check chambering and feeding. Right now, I'm thinking of sizing the cast to .311. I have a Lee .309 and .311 push through sizer so could do .309 as well. For those of you that have the "Ranger" 30/30s . . . what size do you normally size your lead boolits to?

2. This gun has what is probably the original oil in the bore and on the action parts as it came from the factory. While the action is smooth when worked, it still has what I would call the usual "feel" of a 94 when operated. I will say that my Henry 22 lever action is smoother but that's a different animal I know. So . . . what should I be using to lube the action parts? A good gun oil or on the grooves where the bolt moves rearward, should I be using something like the syringe dispensed gun grease that I use on the slides and slide rails of my semi auto pistols? i.e. what is the best lube or trick to get the action to operate as smooth as possible?

Any input / experiences on a "Ranger" would be greatly appreciated. I think this will be a fun little carbine to shoot and play with - no walnut stock, etc. like the old 94s but I can easily live with that.

Thanks!

lobogunleather
01-05-2016, 01:09 PM
Nothing wrong with the Ranger carbines as shooters. I've gone through at least 8 Model 94's (each of my kids and each of the grandkids have taken one home, two more grandkids have come along and I have two more pre-64 carbines and a Model 55 Takedown left). These have accounted for dozens and dozens of deer over the years.

Have been loading cast bullets in .30-30 for decades. None of the kids seem to know that ammo can be bought; they just keep sending their empties back to Grampa's house for reloading. Here is my tried and true load:

Lee C309-170F cast of 50% wheel weights, 50% linotype metal, Lyman gas checks, lubed with NRA-Alox in a .309 lubri-sizer die. Body diameter is .3092, nose diameter is .3015.

30 grains H335 (when I can't get H335 I have substituted BLC-2, nearly identical).

Standard large rifle primers.

I highly recommend the Lyman M-die for case mouth expansion, especially with cast bullets. Standard die sets will have an expander ball intended for the .307" bullets, and seating cast bullets without damage (or crushed cases) can be very difficult. The M-die makes it easy.

These have shot well in every Winchester .30-30 we have used. Velocity is about 1900FPS, just about duplicating factory ammo performance. Deadly on Colorado mule deer to 100 yards-plus. At least 500 rounds per year for the past 30 years or so.

Hick
01-05-2016, 09:46 PM
What Lobogunleather said. My 30-30 is 1968 vintage and does very nicely with cast. Note especially his recommendation to get an M die. I did without for awhile and ruined several cases. The M die is a must and makes it easy.

bedbugbilly
01-05-2016, 10:17 PM
Thanks fellas - greatly appreciate the information.

As I started " bassackwards" on this project, I am pretty well set on dies. When I ordered a M-Die for my 1905 Danzig 8mm Mauser, I also ordered a M-die for the 30/30. If it works half as good on the 30/30 as iit does on my 8mm, it will be put to good use! I also have accumulated an older Lyman FL sizing/de-priming die, a NOS RCBS neck die & seating die set and a couple of weeks ago, ran across a "used" NIB set of RCBS 30/30 "Cowboy dies". On top of those, I have a set of the Lyman 310 tong dies. I think I have expanding dies that will run the range of 308, 309 and 311. Push through sizers include the 309 and 311.

After reading lobo's post, I'll rethink the .311 sizing and start with the 309 and see how that works. I should get decent enough neck tension with the 308 plug I have . . . if not, I'll polish one down some as I think I have two of them. The seating die in the Cowboy set is also a roll crimp and all of the cast i'll be using should have a crimp groove that will work. I have always tumble lubed so will try that as I usually do.

I'm wanting to play with some lighter weight plain base molds that I have with some cat sneeze loads. I'm planning on getting the Lee 309-150 FN mold and I had a guy give me a box of Hornady copper gas checks so I can use them on that mold as well as a 117 gr. Lyman 311-441 GC FN mold that I have. I'll load up a dummy round of that one and hopefully it will feed O.K.

At any rate . . . it will be fun!

Thanks again!

Jim

runfiverun
01-05-2016, 11:03 PM
I use the rcbs 30-150-fngc. [I make them frm my ww alloy mixed with the not ww alloy at a ratio of 3 to1 and drop from the mold into a bucket of water [okay a 1 gallon pail] I get from the faucet in the kitchen.
it just works, the nose engraves the rifling and I load them on my Dillon 550 about 500 at a time.
the crimp groove is in the right place too.
I size to 310.
I shoot them, I have no idea what my barrel slugs at nor do I care.
I have no idea what my twist rate is nor do I care.
I just know they feed and shoot in all of the 30-30's I have here including the bolt actions, from 1800 fps with some old 4831 behind them to over 2400 fps with faster powders behind them.
shrug.

WALLNUTT
01-07-2016, 07:17 PM
For cat sneeze I've been using a LEE 100g bullet for a 32 sized .310 over 3g of Bullseye in my 94TE. Talk about fun!

Frank46
01-08-2016, 12:22 AM
I bought one of the Canadian Centennial carbines years ago. Had scratches on the metal work so no collector value. Stuck a Lyman 17 globe front sight up front and a Williams on the rear. I calls it my lever action match rifle. Fast forward a few years and Cherry's Fine guns had its bigger brother with the 26" octagon barrel. Yep you guessed it, bought it. Plan to do the same with this one regarding sights but only with cast boolits. I've an old NEI Walt Melander 180 gr DD boolit mold. DD means it has a ring at or close to the ogive of the bullet. Mine is about .303" and been dying to try it out. Frank

Griff
01-09-2016, 08:57 PM
1. All I will be shooting for now is cast - I have a 117 grain Lyman mold now that I will use for cat sneeze play. I want to end up with a mold in 150 ish grain weight and probably 170 - 175 ish grain weight. No . . .I haven't "slugged" the bore yet but will. I will load some dummy rounds to check chambering and feeding. Right now, I'm thinking of sizing the cast to .311. I have a Lee .309 and .311 push through sizer so could do .309 as well. For those of you that have the "Ranger" 30/30s . . . what size do you normally size your lead boolits to?I use a Saeco #316 mold for 150gr gas checks, sized @ .309". Loaded in front of 27 grains of RE7, with WLR primers, this is a MOA load in most rifles... a little less in the heavy octagon and a little more in carbines and the trappers. Still a steel ringer @ 200yds on the 10" plate with my favorite 16" Trapper. In the heavy octagon bbl 26" rifle I can add a ½ grain more powder and using 6:1 (WW:Lino), it'll duplicate factory 150 grain jacketed.


2. This gun has what is probably the original oil in the bore and on the action parts as it came from the factory. While the action is smooth when worked, it still has what I would call the usual "feel" of a 94 when operated. I will say that my Henry 22 lever action is smoother but that's a different animal I know. So . . . what should I be using to lube the action parts? A good gun oil or on the grooves where the bolt moves rearward, should I be using something like the syringe dispensed gun grease that I use on the slides and slide rails of my semi auto pistols? i.e. what is the best lube or trick to get the action to operate as smooth as possible?I clean then wipe it with a slightly oil damp cloth... With the action open I use a drop of oil (think thin sewing machine oil) into the two slots in the top of the frame where the locking lug rises, work the action a couple of times and wipe off any excess. A drop in the slot at the back of the link where the locking lugs rests, wiping any excess. If it's been completely disassembled, I use a dab of grease on each the carrier, hammer & link screws where they'll contact the carrier, hammer & link. Just enough to coat the screw without any escaping out the sides where I push the screw thru the carrier, hammer & link holes. Less is more. You don't want any excess grease or oil to attract dust or dirt. They'll last for years with constant use with this little amount of protection... Take the magazine plug, spring and follower out, and using a oil patch wipe the inside of the mag tube. Use that same patch to wipe down the spring and follower. That'll keep rust out of the inside of the mag tube. Again, less is more, you're just trying to put a light film of protection to the steel on the inside of the tube. Too much and dirty cartridges will transfer that dirt into the tube. If it feels "oily", you've used to much.

While I don't own a Ranger, they're just like any other post '64 mdl 94 except for the level of finish and wood... I think the later post '64s with their coil mainspring are some of the best feeling mdl 94s out there. Go head and flame away, my 3 favorite mdl 94s are a '67 Canadian Centennial that's be rebarreled with a '80s Trapper barrel, a '79 carbine that's been rebarreled with a Numrich heavy octagon, and box stock 1978 carbine. It's one of those 3 that sit in the front of the safe and get picked for coyote control and farm use. I have mdl 94s from as early as 1898 thru every decade up to the 1970s except the '40s; several duplicates with different features, and those 3 are my hands-down favorites.

What isn't there to like about:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/sass93/37574.jpg
Yes, those are silver bands and buttplate... the hammer & lever're blued, just reflecting light off the high polish.