30/30 loads with out gas check

[jpen]

Looking for a load I can hunt with without using a gas check. What would you recommend?

[GabbyM]

Plain based bullets in a 30 caliber are IMHO best at not much over 1200 fps. I can't say why. I used to run a 32 mag revolver at 1,400 fps with plain based swc. Life will be simpler on you if you just use a gas check.

[enfield]

Not trying to sound like a smart *** but, you should get a reloading manual like one of the lyman cast books. Lots of good load data and velocity info etc.

[bedbugbilly]

enfield . . . not to be a smart ***** . . but I have the 2nd and 3rd edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and what boolits they show are all "gas check" boolits. So that really does't help the question that OP asks . . .

jpen . . . I am just getting around to play with the same thing . . .only not for hunting but just general shooting/plinking

you don't mention what you are hunting or what boolit weights you are looking at so I think that should be a starting point first. Right now, I have four different molds ranging from a 70is grain PB, a Lee 309-100 RN, and a couple in the 115-117 grainish weight. I want to develop some "cat sneeze" loads as well as some to take out woodchucks, etc.. I don't have a chrony so it's going to be a "trial and error" adventure to see what works best and not push so fast that I get leading.

I'm thinking the same as GabbyM . . . to keep them at 1200 or so. But, without a Chrony, it's going to be by guesswork

The LCBH does show loads for gas check boolits with such powders as Red Dot, 700X, Bulls Eye, Unique, etc. I'm a low tech caster and use range lead - I want something that I can tumble lube but not push so fast as to get leading. I'm looking at the load data in the LCBH and planning on starting out below the minimum to try and keep it at 1200 fps or a tad below to try and prevent leading.

Example: The 3rd edition of the LCBH shows a 115 grain GC boolit over a starting load of 7.0 grains of Red Dot which gives 1400 fps. The maximum load of 10.0 grains of RD gives 1747 fps. i'm going to start with Red Dot as that is what I use in my 8mm Mauser for reduced loads with PB lead boolits and I have had good luck with accurate results.

To try and keep it below 1200 fps, I'm thinking I will start out at 5.0 grains of Red Dot with my 115 garnish boolit and see what happens. I am only looking at shooting at 50 yards or so max. Of course with a reduced load, you want to check to make sure that you don't get squibs but out of my 20 inch Winchester 94 Ranger, 5 grains should do just fine. From there, I can play with adjusting the load depending on what my results are on paper. As I work up, I'll keep an eye out for leading.

Ideally, I would like to end up with decent loads for a 120 grain and a 150 grain PB Flat Nose. BUT, if I find that I have to use a GC . . I'll play with that as well. I use the Lee push through sizers so it shouldn't be a big deal . . I've just never used a GC before.

I think first that you need to define what you want to use it for, the range you'll be shooting and what grain weight/mold you'll be using. I'm sure that a lot of 30-30 shooters have played with a PB lead boolit so it will be interesting and educational to see what the responses are. I look forward to see what shows up as it's a new adventure for me as well. I want to stick with a FN boolit for my Winchester but I can still play with RN boolits and get used to my rifle - just load one in the chamber and then one in the tube magazine.

[BrassMagnet]

enfield . . . not to be a smart ***** . . but I have the 2nd and 3rd edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and what boolits they show are all "gas check" boolits. So that really does't help the question that OP asks . . .

jpen . . . I am just getting around to play with the same thing . . .only not for hunting but just general shooting/plinking

you don't mention what you are hunting or what boolit weights you are looking at so I think that should be a starting point first. Right now, I have four different molds ranging from a 70is grain PB, a Lee 309-100 RN, and a couple in the 115-117 grainish weight. I want to develop some "cat sneeze" loads as well as some to take out woodchucks, etc.. I don't have a chrony so it's going to be a "trial and error" adventure to see what works best and not push so fast that I get leading.

I'm thinking the same as GabbyM . . . to keep them at 1200 or so. But, without a Chrony, it's going to be by guesswork

The LCBH does show loads for gas check boolits with such powders as Red Dot, 700X, Bulls Eye, Unique, etc. I'm a low tech caster and use range lead - I want something that I can tumble lube but not push so fast as to get leading. I'm looking at the load data in the LCBH and planning on starting out below the minimum to try and keep it at 1200 fps or a tad below to try and prevent leading.

Example: The 3rd edition of the LCBH shows a 115 grain GC boolit over a starting load of 7.0 grains of Red Dot which gives 1400 fps. The maximum load of 10.0 grains of RD gives 1747 fps. i'm going to start with Red Dot as that is what I use in my 8mm Mauser for reduced loads with PB lead boolits and I have had good luck with accurate results.

To try and keep it below 1200 fps, I'm thinking I will start out at 5.0 grains of Red Dot with my 115 garnish boolit and see what happens. I am only looking at shooting at 50 yards or so max. Of course with a reduced load, you want to check to make sure that you don't get squibs but out of my 20 inch Winchester 94 Ranger, 5 grains should do just fine. From there, I can play with adjusting the load depending on what my results are on paper. As I work up, I'll keep an eye out for leading.

Ideally, I would like to end up with decent loads for a 120 grain and a 150 grain PB Flat Nose. BUT, if I find that I have to use a GC . . I'll play with that as well. I use the Lee push through sizers so it shouldn't be a big deal . . I've just never used a GC before.

I think first that you need to define what you want to use it for, the range you'll be shooting and what grain weight/mold you'll be using. I'm sure that a lot of 30-30 shooters have played with a PB lead boolit so it will be interesting and educational to see what the responses are. I look forward to see what shows up as it's a new adventure for me as well. I want to stick with a FN boolit for my Winchester but I can still play with RN boolits and get used to my rifle - just load one in the chamber and then one in the tube magazine.

Light loads are more dangerous than max loads because max loads are higher than desired pressures while a light load can detonate instead of burn and be much more powerful than a proof load.

Read this article and pay attention to small game/gallery loads:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Make sure the powder you are using is suitable for the light load of your choice.

[William Yanda]

I would be tempted to apply Lee's theory of alloy "toughness" vs pressure to this discussion. As I understand it, failure-i.e. leading and inaccuracy-results when the alloy is too soft to grip the lands without stripping. What alloy are you using and are you willing to investigate modifying it?
Varying the powder choice and charge are a different way of answering this question.
Respectfully,
Bill

[chutesnreloads]

I also suggest just getting the gas checks.Save yourself some headaches.Enjoy your shooting/hunting

[Larry Gibson]

Light loads are more dangerous than max loads because max loads are higher than desired pressures while a light load can detonate instead of burn and be much more powerful than a proof load.

That is an old wife's tale and has been disproven many, many times. Smokeless powders in cartridge cases burn, they do not "detonate".

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Looking for a load I can hunt with without using a gas check. What would you recommend?

As mentioned jpen, what are you hunting?

Larry Gibson

[GabbyM]

As mentioned jpen, what are you hunting?

Larry Gibson
Good question Larry. Dugh, I'd just got out of be before I responded. That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.

I have a Saeco 140 grain flat nose plain base bullet. Sort of neat to watch them fly to target. 8.0 grains of Unique was a little fast so 7.0gr was more accurate. Had a little trouble with powder not igniting on a couple. fills action with unburned powder and you are done for the day. I've not heard others with that issue so it may be very rare. Primers were Fed LR. Old ones but they went bang. My thought is the primer pushed the bullet out before powder ignition. Maybe large pistol primers would be better. Going to Red Dot or 700X powder would even be better yet. Heavier bullet would help also. I have a box of the 140 PB's made up. Lots of 700x so I should load them up. They didn't require any sight adjustment. You just had to hold high at fifty yards. You'd be able to take much larger game than I'd want to with a 22 rim fire.

My old Lyman 45th list a 150gr gas check bullet and 700x powder. 6.5gr for 1235fps and 27,000 cup. I'd need to reduce that for the 140 grain or it would be going to fast.

[jpen]

I'm wanting to hunt deer. The mold I have is a Lee 170 grain. But it is for a gas check I'm just wanting to see what I can get by with if needed.

[geargnasher]

Forget it. IMO you need at least more than plain-based velocity can give you to hunt deer with a .30-30. If you want to go check-less, figure out a sizer to make your bullets about .303" in diameter, paper-patch them wet, and shoot them at jacketed velocities.

Gear

[Thumbcocker]

Red dot with light to full weight boolits sans gas checks has worked for me. 1200 fps or so velocity.

[richhodg66]

That Lee 170 grain seems to be a copy of the Lyman 311041, which is kind of the Gold Standard for cast in the .30-30. If you shop around, 1K of gas checks will run you around $20 (I've had good luck with aluminum ones), you'll probably want a sizer to crimp them on (again, the Lee ones are cheap and good) and you're in business. No problem getting 1800 FPS or better which is a deer killer for sure.

Only plain based experience in .30s was deliberately for light small game loads. Easy to get great accuracy, but you have to keep velocity down. I use a plain based bullet for the .32-40, can't remember the mold number offhand, with 9 grains of Unique in my .32 Special and it works great, but I wouldn't hunt deer with it.

[MBTcustom]

Depends what you're hunting. I killed my first deer with a 22LR from 15 yards away. Put it on his temple and when the trigger broke the deer landed in a pile. (I might add that I don't think that bullet had a GC on it, but I can't be 100% sure because I didn't recover the bullet:grin:.)

What I propose you do is go load up progressively hotter batches of 5 rounds each 1/2grain at a time, and put them in ziplock baggies with the load data written on them. Take them to the range and shoot them one by one, starting with the lightest and ending where accuracy goes out the window. Write down which load was one step back from where everything fell apart.
Go back to your secret laboratory and scrub the lead out of your barrel by wrapping steel wool around a used bronze brush so it's a good tight fit in the barrel. Spray the steel wool mop with Kroil and shove it through your barrel a few times. It won't take but a few strokes to eradicate all leading and put you back to square one (for those of you that are squeamish about using steel wool in your barrels, use copper chore-boy).
Now, sit down and pull the bullets from the loads that were higher than where your accuracy fell off, and reclaim the powder.
Load up a bunch of ammo with the one that was one step back from accuracy failure, then go back to the range and try it again. You will soon find out exactly what you can do with your particular rifle, then write a thread telling everyone what you observed and learned.

[cbashooter]

With a plainbase ww bullet at 1400-1500 you can get 4-5 moa .much better accuracy if driven 1200. it will kill deer to 50 to 75 yards and more than accurate enough.just make sure to check cold barrel poi.often plainbase driven fast in 30 cal throw the first shots different.
Hmmmmm... the 32-40 killed em dead back then at this general speed?

[vzerone]

If, again if, you had enough room under that bullet that it isn't seated to the base of the neck, you could cut some polyethylene wads from say Folgers coffee can lids (and many other items made from that) and seat those in the case mouth and have your bullet push them down as you seat the bullet. That will give you a little more then shooting them alone with no protection. I don't use that bullet so I don't know how much leeway you have to do as I suggested. The only other thing is shotshell buffer may help if you have room for that. You want to keep the powder gases off the base of that bullet. Other then that and paper patch you're up the creek without a paddle.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

jpen

I have a Ranch Dog mold that casts about 165 gr. His molds were designed for Marlin rifles in particular. The mold I have is a 6-cavity that does NOT have the gas check. If you like, I'll send you some to experiment with. I've sent plain based .44 mag bullets out of a micro-groove Marlin without any problem at 1800 fps. Maybe you can find happiness too. Or, at least know it "ain't gonna happen".

If the .357 mag in a revolver is adequate, then a similar weight bullet in .30 cal, at a similar velocity, should be adequate. Placement is the key when pushing the envelope. .32-20 has worked for decades, but there is little margin for error. No one wants to lose a wounded deer. They deserve better.

[C. Latch]

I'd just get the gas checks.

[GhostHawk]

While I have not been playing with .30-30, I have been doing a bunch of low level loads in other .30 calibers.
7.62x54r, 7.62x39 and 300bo to be specific.

The 54r mosin rounds I was using gas check and up to 13 grains, and getting reasonable accuracy.
But the real gem is 4.6 of Red Dot under a standard or light for caliber bullet.
7.62x39 standard is 123/124 gr, I have run both ways from there, down to 90, up to 185. They ALL shoot.
Some shoot better than others. Like .223 with a 55 gr bator bullet, no gas check and 4.6 of Red Dot.
Or a 158 grain .358 over 4.6 of Red Dot in a .357 handi rifle.

You may have to do some figuring to find at what point accuracy goes south and leading starts.

The "ladder" method will work if you don't try to skip steps.

For small game I would use a light for caliber 80-100 grain bullet. for deer I would use a heavier one, but not crazy heavy. Say 150-175.

The best part, with low levels of powder, no gas checks, if you cast your own bullets you can load those for easy less than a dime a piece, maybe as low as a nickle or 6 cents.

That lets you play with things a bit. Heck that lets you shoot every week till deer season for what you would pay for a box of factory loads.

Your mileage may vary, now seems like a good time to invest in some Red Dot if you don't have any.
I would recommend Ballistic Products inc, bass pro, Cabella's, etc. Price I paid for 8 lb jug was 1/3 lower at BPI.
Have to keep looking.

[oldfart1956]

Jpen like you I didn't want to mess with gas checks when I first got into this. I even went so far as to ream 2 perfectly good Lyman molds to remove the gas check. (please don't ever do that!) Then I actually tried it. Since I run all my cast bullets, except the tumble lube designs, thru a Lee push thru sizer ($18 at Titan Reloading) I figgered out it takes exactly no extra time. The aluminum checks work as well as the copper for me. Just thumb press one on a bullet and shove it thru the sizer. Considering all the time I spend gathering up lead, smelting and making ingots, then actually casting bullets...the cost of the check is nothing. Lots of vendors here sell them. I find the copper ones at gun shows! No one seems to know what they are! :) I run them in a Marlin 30/30 from pootin' velocity up to low/mid level jacketed speed. Never had an issue with accuracy or leading. So try it without but consider a check. Seriously. Audie...the Oldfart.

[GabbyM]

Gator checks are very economical and I've used maybe fifteen thousand of them. People mostly think I'm lying when I quote group size. So they must work. Nothing wrong with having tow loads for a rifle. One for plinking at 100 yards and another for hunting. With Lee molds at under $25 that's not a barrier. I quite loading plain base in a rifle simply because I don't even know how many guns I own. When I shoot rifle I want some range to it. Otherwise at fifty and under I use a revolver. There is crossover of course.

Probably the most economical route for a small game pinker plus big game hunter. By a plain base mold of about 150 grains. Load it with fast shotgun powder at sub sonic. This will be the most accurate as if you go just above sonic you'll get the transition wobble. As someone wrote above, you have about 357 revolver power there. It will kill deer. But why? then just buy a box of 150 grain factory ammo once every few years. Check sight to POI and go with it. My experience with 30-30 and 30-06 plus the 222 Rem is all sorts of ammo shoots to POA. 38 Special revolver is pretty good about anything shooting to point of aim also.

As a hand loader. You could buy a 100 box of Sierra 150gr Pro Hunter bullets. 170 Grain for black bear. Load em up to max charge. If you do black bear and deer just use the 170 gr for all. Life should be simple. Then cast up your plain based bullets and shoot them. Personally I'll make a thousand gas check bullets in a day and then spend a couple years shooting them up. Along with the other half dozen calibers I shoot.

Lots of people killing deer with 300 black out at sub velocity. Any way you look at it you are putting at least as much hurt to the deer as an archery setup. Few times carrying out a deer from a half mile away when you could of dropped them close will convince you to spend the two cents on a gas check. That's what it amounts to.

[Screwbolts]

Good morning all, If I remember correctly the Gas Check wasn't developed until 1908.

Now knowing that everything before 1908 that was cast or swaged was Plain Base. Cast with PB seemed to work very well.

I have harvested several deer with a PB version of the NOE 311-265 FN RD, that being in a 30-30 with a 1-12 barrel, using 15 gr. of 4759, 1500 FPS croneied. Deadly combo.

I believe your LEE 170 FN with the same load would work great.

Ken

[Wayne Smith]

Jpen, I will go along with those who said go ahead and do it. We greatly overestimate the killing need - and it's getting worse, not better. However I would recommend you find a plain base mold to do it with. I think you will find a great deal less frustration in the doing.

[Motard]

have this Lyman Mold 311241 that has the gas checks shanke removable and can drop 155 pb boolist as well as 178 casted lubed and checked. I have been tring various loads on my win '94 but could never convinced my boolits to run under 1800 fps (well with the full loads I can manage with the powders I have, whaiting to end them so I can buy different faster propellents). So I have been reinstalling the gas check shank on mold and not planning to remove againg. I have also fiddled a little with seating the gas check, I mean tryng to seat them as square as possible before running in the lee sizer thinking they would be grabbbed unsquared. Nothing more wrong. The less seated just push them all the way in the shank and crimps. Works fine to me.
Ps cause I have not experienced any leading I have also come to the idea that gas checks scraps the lead while riding the bore.

[popper]

165gr FN sans check @ 1250 did OK from my 336 @ 50. ~MOA, no recoil to speak of using IIRC 20gr LeverE powder. Not sure I would try it for deer - too many variables in the shot placement. Unique didn't do as well.

[quilbilly]

I have been pleasantly surprised at how well my 30/30 shoots with the Lyman 130 gr plain base boolit sized to 309. I have had the velocities up to 1400 with several powders without problems but primarily keep the velocities around 1250 with Trail Boss as short range coyote killer. At 40 yards it gets 11" of penetration in my test media (soaked, compressed phone books) which is a lot harder than a deer so it would work out to 75 yards. There are better projectiles for that purpose. It is really fun to shoot and economical as well as an excuse to use up my excess Trail Boss.

[Ric-san]

Anyone know if the Lee 170 grain is also good in a .308 bolt gun...? Just trying to figure if the boolit can pull double duty in both my .308 and 30-30. Thanks...

[Screwbolts]

Anyone know if the Lee 170 grain is also good in a .308 bolt gun...? Just trying to figure if the boolit can pull double duty in both my .308 and 30-30. Thanks...

YES, it is good in all of mine, 30/30, 308, 30-06. Being the LEE is a clone of Lyman's 31141 it is very good in all my 30 cals.

Ken

[Ithaca Gunner]

Lyman at one time made quite a variety of .30 plain base molds from 90gr. to over 250gr. but those days are long past. For a cast game bullet you can't do better than the RCBS 30-180-FN in a production mold. Yes, it takes a gas check and mine weigh in at around 195gr. out of the mold, but it's one of the most accurate bullets I've ever cast and with it's big meplate does some real damage. In a .30WCF I would say any medium burn powder that gets you around 1900fps will take any deer size game in the U.S. at normal .30WCF ranges.

Gas checks are cheap, why loose a game animal over a few cents?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I moved your thread to a more appropriate forum.

[gnoahhh]

If I were to wish to deer hunt with a plain base .30 bullet, I would find or have made a 190-200 grain flat nose with a meplat wide enough to tap dance on (or better yet, a hollow point). Then work up a load that combines accuracy with as high a velocity attainable without leading, using a bullet alloy of around 10bhn or a bit less. I would keep my shot under 100 yards if I could, and take pains to place the bullet exactly where it counted. Such a bullet would give great penetration and decent expansion. But, it would be a borderline stunt IMO. Better to use a gas check design and drive it faster- the deer is a noble beast and doesn't deserve to be the subject of borderline performance when a better solution is at hand.

In my early days of shooting cast bullets, around 1970, I shot a deer with a .30-40 Krag, 311241 155gr. PB cast of WW+lead (probably 8-9bhn), and 10gr. Unique. That deer died hard even though the shot went where it was supposed to- right behind the shoulder blade and into the chest cavity. The next time with a slow bullet was in 1980 with a Browning BR-78 '06 and an early NEI 308-180, sans gas check, at around 1300 fps. Again the animal died hard even with that slug in his chest. I swore never again would I try to stunt shoot them with under powered loads.

[MT Chambers]

I have enough trouble getting accuracy with the 30/30 in my Marlin, so for me a GC is a must, note that using those reduced loads for hunting will require sight changes and a very curved trajectory.

[Doc Highwall]

I really think you are going to have trouble shooting a plain base bullet much over 1400 fps with an alloy that will expand. With a alloy that is soft like Lyman #2 or softer for hunting, a gas check will allow you to shoot over 2000 fps and you would be much happier, both on the accuracy and the game animal performance.

[TXGunNut]

I like the idea of a PB 30-30, I've had a Project Thutty-thutty going on for awhile and it's really been fun. Found a nearly new 336 cheap, put an inexpensive red dot sight on her and rounded up all my range pickup and the once-fired brass I squirreled away when 30-30 ammo was $7/box. I use exclusively WW alloy and the recipes call for less than 20 grains of powder. I finally got a PB mould and will be breaking it in soon. Obviously the theme for this project is cheap, easy fun and it truly has been. It's not a hunting rifle but it could be if needed, it has more energy than a subsonic 300 BO but I generally prefer a bit more oomph.

[Doc Highwall]

I bought a Ruger No1 in 30-30 Winchester just for cast bullets, and I have a 311041PB, SAECO #315 that I removed the gas check feature so it is a plain base mould, and a NOE 308-403 PB, NOE 311-180 FN-PB and some others. Right now I have been using between 8 grains to 10 grains of unique in loading this rifle.

Here is a picture of the Ruger post #29.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256032-Ruger-1/page2

Here is a picture of my Browning Traditional Hunter in 30-30 Winchester post #16

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?114828-Traditionalists-avert-your-eyes-1885-with-scope!!

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

OK. Anyone who has pushed a 150+ gr plain based bullet from the .30-30 cartridge in excess of 1500 fps, please respond with your results.

This thread has been all over the road, in-and-out of both ditches, sometimes even farther into the fields, and the question the of the original OP remains unanswered.

Time to refocus.

[Bird]

OK. Anyone who has pushed a 150+ gr plain based bullet from the .30-30 cartridge in excess of 1500 fps, please respond with your results.

This thread has been all over the road, in-and-out of both ditches, sometimes even farther into the fields, and the question the of the original OP remains unanswered.

Time to refocus.

Pushed a 173 grain plain based to supposedly 1550 or so fps using unique, or that is what is quoted in the LYMAN reloading manual using a max load. Accuracy was ok, but dropped back 2/10 of a grain of powder for best accuracy. 2.25'' groups at 100 yds. Bullets were Bear Creek, the ones with their black coating, and a 24'' barrel 94 winchester with an aftermarket 1 in 10 twist barrel. No leading.
Tried pushing bullets faster with other powders to no avail. Groups opened up and barrel leaded.
Green dot powder more accurate than using unique, but velocity was 1350 fps, and ran out of elevation with rear tang sight. This load grouped 6 to 7'' lower at 100 yds.

[Recaster]

I have been working on a new load with a lee c109-170-F boolit. Cast from lyman#2 and having the base coated with powder coating weighs @ 176 grains. Shot from my marlin 336 with micro-groove barrel at 50 yards, does about 2 inch 10 shot groups averaging 1665 fps. No gas check and no leading.

[Motard]

Here are some range tests I am doing with Lee 309-170-F and Mihec 154 .308 Hunting Boolits. Speds varyng from 1400 up to 2000 dip lubed and thumble lubed lead. No leading at all
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?295556-Load-data-for-308-cast-bullets&p=3498439#post3498439
Hope it helpes

[Hick]

OK. Anyone who has pushed a 150+ gr plain based bullet from the .30-30 cartridge in excess of 1500 fps, please respond with your results.

I've been working on a 30/30 load using a PB 165 grain this winter but haven't had good enough weather yet to test it out properly. The loading manual data says 1550 fps. The few test rounds I've fired look like they might be beginning to lead a little. I don't have good chronograph data yet, but I'm beginning to think I will need to either go to GC or slow down. I suspect my rifle, at least, has a limit for PB at about what you are suggesting.

[TXGunNut]

I
OK. Anyone who has pushed a 150+ gr plain based bullet from the .30-30 cartridge in excess of 1500 fps, please respond with your results.

This thread has been all over the road, in-and-out of both ditches, sometimes even farther into the fields, and the question the of the original OP remains unanswered.

Time to refocus.

That's pretty much what I'm focused on and very do-able with PB boolits, IMHO. It's probably very close to the ragged edge but my 336 with the moulds and sizer dies I have on hand may get it done. I happen to think a 165 gr PB boolit will git-r-done on most TX game, excluding exotics.

[Ithaca Gunner]

At long last I found my Ideal loading manual #39 from 1953, and it does have some plain base cast loads listed for the .30WCF.

For a 154gr. p-b cast it lists as suggested loads; 10gr of 4759 for 1,300fps-18gr of 4198 for 1,677fps-and 9gr of Unique for 1,300fps.

For a 125gr. p-b cast it lists as suggested loads; 16gr of 2400 for 1,765fps-16gr of 4227 for 1,700fps-and 13gr of Unique for 1,100fps.

For an 87gr. p-b cast it lists as suggested loads; 7.5gr of 4759 for 1,300fps-and 4.0gr of Unique for 1,100fps.

[shootrj2003]

Since we are every day using repurposed materials ad substances the idea of paperpatching actually stimulated my mind,what about protecting the base with( in place of poly ethlene plastic,how about Teflon plumbers tape,it is thin,flexible,apparently heat resistant,I originally thought of wrapping it around like paper patch,a 3" double wrap on a .458 Made .459 HOWEVER it's lubricity in a wrap around made me wonder if the bullet would just shoot out of the wrap leaving it behind( maybe in the barrel?)however it occured to me that a cross piece loaded into the case around the bullet would not have this tendency.any thoughts sorry just came to me!

[ascast]

jpen I suggest you shoot some groups with your bullet mold you have. 8 grains Unigue for starters, and go up from there. OR what powders have you got on hand? That will be slow, but you can work up. I assume your using a lever action. GC'd bullets will shoot fine, maybe, but certainly there is no danger. Weather it works well enough to kill deer is for you to determine. Velocity will be lower so you must focus on shot placement. Also, your mold must drop a clean base, no tails or little wings, or fingers. GC'd bullets always shoot better, partly better aerodymanics, partly they seat more concentircally. If shooting a lever action (front cleaner), look closely for crown wear. No load data can compensate for a worn out crown. Make sure you wipe bullet base before seating. good luck

[GhostHawk]

Since the last time I posted in this thread I have shot some light loads in .30-30.

4-6 grains of Red Dot and bullets from the Lee .314 90 gr truncated cone lubed with BLL gave me great accuracy.
But I would use those on small game.

For deer 170-190 gr over 6-8 grains should do what you want to do nicely.

[FergusonTO35]

I dug up this old thread because I'm wondering the same thing. In my case, I cast a bunch of Lee C309-170-RF and still had a handful of boolits left when my gas checks ran out. Most of my .30-30 cast shooting is less than 75 yards and I don't need full hunting velocity. So, I dipped the slugs in LLA and let them dry overnight, then dipped them again. LLA works great with these boolits and gas checks, I'm wondering how they will do without. I loaded up 4 rounds each with 7, 7.3, 7.6, 7.9, and 8.2 grains Unique. I'm thinking one of these charges should shoot well, hopefully I can try them out soon.

[charlie b]

I have not had good luck with GC bullets fired without the GC. Groups open up a lot, even at lower velocities. But, 3"-4" groups may be good enough for some hunting loads.

[FredBuddy]

A subject near and dear to my heart !

Many posters here equate "plain base"
to "gas check without the gas check."
NOT SO. I agree that a boolit with a
gas check shank, but without a check should
be held to lower velocities.

However, I have found that a true "flat" or
"plain based" boolit is capable of higher
velocities and good to excellent accuracy.
Many posters here have alluded to that but
don't always make the distinction.

Enter "powder coating." One poster mentioned
it, but didn't explain further. I recently worked up
a load with a NOE 311-165 plain base (PB), powder coated
that is accurate, and with IMR 3031 is about
1800 fps. It's the ranch dog style with a wide
meplat so should be adequate for 30-30 range
hunting.

I should further mention that all my testing
has been with 7 different 30-30's over the last
4 years. The exceptions have been with my
2 Marlins. The 1949 336A doesn't like this
boolit powder coated, but will chamber it if
lubed. The 30AS microgroove will only
tolerate a much smaller nose diameter so
I use a 130 gr boolit with a gas check and
powder coated at about 1600 fps.

I strive to use plain base boolits because
of cost, especially in these times.

I try to read all the posts on this great
site about 30-30 loads, so have added
my 2 cents.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

FredBuddy, my experience has been the same. No only in .30-30, but in .357 mag rifle loads.

[charlie b]

Since we are every day using repurposed materials ad substances the idea of paperpatching actually stimulated my mind,what about protecting the base with( in place of poly ethlene plastic,how about Teflon plumbers tape,it is thin,flexible,apparently heat resistant,I originally thought of wrapping it around like paper patch,a 3" double wrap on a .458 Made .459 HOWEVER it's lubricity in a wrap around made me wonder if the bullet would just shoot out of the wrap leaving it behind( maybe in the barrel?)however it occured to me that a cross piece loaded into the case around the bullet would not have this tendency.any thoughts sorry just came to me!

I would have the same reservations you do about using teflon tape. It tears into strips too easily for me and I'd be afraid of leaving long 'strands' in the barrel. Think of what threads look like when you unscrew a taped joint.

I paper patch for my muzzle loader but did not want to mess with that for the .308. So I went to powder coat instead. Tougher than just about anything except copper and easy to do in bulk.

[MT Gianni]

Teflon breaks down and starts releasing toxins between 460 and 640 F. There are warnings out there to not keep pet birds in the kitchen when cooking with teflon. I don't know what temp/time happens on cartridge ignition, if anything is long enough to start that process.

[FergusonTO35]

Well, I tried 'em out today and the results were promising, at least at 50 yards. 7 grains and 7.6 grains did really good, about the same as my usual load of 17 grains 4759 under the same slug gas checked. Of course, they are shooting about 5 inches low! I'm going to keep experimenting.

[Terminatorret]

I load 193gr cast with 6.1gr of Red Dot to get around 1085fps (Oehler chrony) out of a Revelation 225 (Savage 340C) with a 20" barrel. Last 3 shots from the bench measured 0.8" from 75 yards.
Subsonic, no gas cap, no leading problems, no ear plugs.

[FergusonTO35]

Next up I'm going to try charges of 8-9.5 grains Unique. If I can come up with a load that is coyote accurate out to 75 yards I would be happy.