Something wrong with this picture?

[fatelk]

I went to the range yesterday and one of the guns I shot was this sleek, ultra-modern, high-capacity pistola. The third or fourth round felt and sounded funny, so I stopped and found something funny (see photo). Also, it had cycled the slide and there was another live round in the chamber!

These were my reloads from a few years back. I'm normally so very careful about powder charges, but assume I clearly made a mistake somehow, I guess. I shot a bunch of the same rounds in another gun of the same caliber and they shot great.

[JHeath]

Common problem when they reach that age.. Try giving it some prune juice and they won't get stuck like that.

[Mk42gunner]

First one I have seen that stopped halfway out the muzzle.

Robert

[kingstrider]

Wow good thing you noticed it before shooting another. What model gun is that?

[bertus534]

Looks like a Savage to me

[leftiye]

Woulda made a blunderbuss out of it - cool!?

[fryboy]

sleek ultra modern from umm say 1915-ish huh ? ( gee they make them out of plastic now ... lolz )

oy, good thing indeed you were paying attention ,safety always pays !

[Ballistics in Scotland]

There is a pretty good chance that if you had fired again, you would have escaped the ring-bulge that would have been inevitable if it had been lodged further back. Still, "a pretty good chance" isn't as good as you would like.

If you do it experimentally, as I have with a condemned shotgun barrel, the bulge comes a little further on than the obstruction. It happens because the gases build up a cushion of extreme pressure behind the decelerated bullet, as long as the second bullet keeps moving, it would be out of the muzzle before the gases caught up. That is why we get away with putting an obstruction in the muzzle of almost all shotguns, namely the choke.

I've even achieved the rare double ring bulge, caused when the gasses bounce from the charge, bounce from the breech face and come back to do it again nearly two inches further along. That shows that the powder gases, although much lighter than the bullet, are moving a lot faster, and energy = MV². Being a single, with a thick barrel to reduce recoil, the bulges are slight where they would be larger, or a burst, in a double.

157120
Still, it is very unlikely that your incident had a thing to do with the gun being a Savage, or its age.

[dubber123]

I have gotten the boolit peeking out of the muzzle quite a few times while working up firelapping loads. The last was a .35 Rem lever gun. Mine all pulled out easily being lead, how hard did that jacketed pull?

[jrayborn]

Very good catch! Well done!

[gray wolf]

Paying attention saves the day AGAIN

[roverboy]

I'm glad you noticed the problem before you pulled the trigger again. I had one get stuck once with a cast wadcutter load. When it fired it sounded weak, like only the primer fired. But then I quickly noticed I had powder all over my hands and the frame of the gun.

[JHeath]

There is a pretty good chance that if you had fired again, you would have escaped the ring-bulge that would have been inevitable if it had been lodged further back. Still, "a pretty good chance" isn't as good as you would like.

If you do it experimentally, as I have with a condemned shotgun barrel, the bulge comes a little further on than the obstruction. It happens because the gases build up a cushion of extreme pressure behind the decelerated bullet, as long as the second bullet keeps moving, it would be out of the muzzle before the gases caught up. That is why we get away with putting an obstruction in the muzzle of almost all shotguns, namely the choke.

I've even achieved the rare double ring bulge, caused when the gasses bounce from the charge, bounce from the breech face and come back to do it again nearly two inches further along. That shows that the powder gases, although much lighter than the bullet, are moving a lot faster, and energy = MV². Being a single, with a thick barrel to reduce recoil, the bulges are slight where they would be larger, or a burst, in a double.

157120
Still, it is very unlikely that your incident had a thing to do with the gun being a Savage, or its age.

Fascinating about the wave velocity. Thanks for sharing. As to your last comment, when you are a 100 year old savage you will understand what I meant.

[bedbugbilly]

Pull it out . . . measure it . . . and tell everybody you were "slugging your bore"!

Just glad you caught it and all is well. I have only had one "squib". I was shooting my Smith 36 snub and heard a "pfffft". I knew immediately what had happened. And . . . I knew why. I was loading, my wife came down to the basement to ask me a question and I was loading on my Lee turret - I have my powder measure mounted on my powder thru die. I just plan and simple didn't drop a charge. Taught me a very valuable lesson . . . if interrupted . . .remove the cartridge you are working on and start over . . . even if it means throwing the cartridge away.

What I found interesting was the energy the small pistol primer had . . no charge in the casing but it pushed my 148 grain wadcutter into the barrel with the base about 1/4" in front of the forcing cone.

Nice looking pistol . . . glad you caught it and no damage to you or it!

[OS OK]

Good Save For Sure…but on a more serious tone…when I had my first hang in the bbl…It made me really question my ability to handload…started doubting my methods and madness so to speak, whats worse, I did it on a LNL progressive! Now I'm really rethinking my work.
The solution was easy and I quit questioning myself…I use an RCBS lock-out powder checking die and it has saved my bacon numerous times now. I also installed that little strip LED light on the underside of the press top and I can see the powder in the case as I place the boolit in the can.
No matter the precautions I take now, I still think about it from time to time as I load…I guess the repercussions of our actions can get pretty serious…just think if your buddy or lady friend was shooting when that happened…and they just kept squeezing the trigger…I don't really want to go there, but I do think about it.
I'm glad you only had a scare.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Savage made a nice .45 cal pistol and used it to compete for the Army trials just after the turn of the 20th century. It did very well. The Colt and the Savage were the last pistols left standing but it was already decided by the powers that be that Colt would get the contract. They just had too much history with the Army.

[fatelk]

The feel and sound was so completely different that it was obvious something was wrong, but it sure surprised me that it had enough oomph to cycle the slide and chamber another round. The bullet tapped out pretty easily so I wonder what would have happened, though I'm not curious enough to find out!

I shot a bunch from the same batch through an old "Beholla" of the same vintage and they worked great. For a cheap old gun, it actually shoots more accurately than the Savage. I've been a little disapointed in this Savage. I had one many years ago that I really liked (shot great) but foolishly sold it. This is one that I picked up a few years ago as a replacement.


when I had my first hang in the bbl…It made me really question my ability to handload…started doubting my methods and madness so to speak, whats worse, I did it on a LNL progressive! Now I'm really rethinking my work.

This is what's bugging me too. The problem is, I'm pretty extreme when it comes to being particular about making visual contact with each and every powder charge in absolutely every round I ever load. A couple decades ago I got distracted when loading some .38 Spl rounds and had to remove a stuck bullet from a forcing cone, learned a good lesson.

Some calibers I now load on a Dillon with a strong light above so I can see the powder level before seating each bullet, but for most (including .32acp) I load on the single stage Rock Chucker with a case kicker. I load 50 at a time on a tray, dropping powder from a uniflow, but I'm absolutely anal about visually checking powder level with a strong light at least twice on every case when they're all charged in the tray. Anything with a different powder level sticks out like a sore thumb. This incident really has me wondering how this one slipped through.

[fatelk]

I've accumulated a lot of random stuff over the years, including lots of assorted rounds here and there. It doesn't get mixed with shooting ammo for obvious reasons, but I wonder if maybe I didn't inadvertently toss a clean, shiny round laying on the bench into the bag with the others. Could have even been one I picked up off the range that had gotten wet, that I brought home with the intention of pulling down. Surely I'm not the only one with 10 pounds of random bullets pulled from random questionable ammo? :) After the incident I specifically looked for and found the empty case, and it was a different head stamp than any of the others in the whole batch.

Yes, that's a stupid thing to do, but I can't get over the fact that I must have done something stupid somewhere along the line.

[turtlezx]

I didnt think the gun would cycle with a sqibb load like that ??

[Mk42gunner]

No reason it wouldn't, especially in a blowback action. There had to be some gas pressure to get the projectile to the end of the bore, so it was working on the breech face at the same time.

Robert

[rondog]

Cool looking pistol! I like it.

Squibs suck. I ruined two 1911 barrels the same day. I'd turned off my Lee powder measure and my grandson decided he'd "help me out" by making a few rounds for me when I wasn't around. Grrr.

[turtlezx]

i can load lite loads that send the bullet down range at good speed and not cycle the action??
far more power than 1 sticking in the barrel

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Fascinating about the wave velocity. Thanks for sharing. As to your last comment, when you are a 100 year old savage you will understand what I meant.

Thank you for your kind comments. It has been observable throughout history that the Scots get along better with tribal savages than the English, let alone foreigners and that class of person. I can't imagine why.

[Artful]

Savage made a nice .45 cal pistol and used it to compete for the Army trials just after the turn of the 20th century. It did very well. The Colt and the Savage were the last pistols left standing but it was already decided by the powers that be that Colt would get the contract. They just had too much history with the Army.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLYOdvcnvkY

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUqTwtMmAVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeOsjbhtbnY

[leadman]

I had a couple of squibs recently from ammo I loaded quite awhile ago. I gave my son some ammo to shoot in his Ruger revolver and had one also.
The cartridges had powder in them and some of it burned but one never left the case and stuck the boolit in the forcing cone. I pushed it back and took it out of the cylinder. I then used my bullet puller to pull the boolit and it had powder still in it but it was scorched looking.
I believe I have gotten some bad primers and have to do a follow up to confirm this.

[Schrag4]

I'm no expert but I wouldn't expect a squib to cycle the action unless it was a blowback (in which case it would cycle it more aggressively). With a recoil pistol, I've had a round with very little (none at all?) powder that caused the projectile to put a hole in the paper target but didn't move the slide at all. In a recoil-operated pistol, if the projectile doesn't even leave the gun, I can't imagine there's any universe in which that's enough recoil to cycle a new round.

FYI, in addition to seeing the hole appear on paper (I wasn't the shooter), I carefully removed the magazine and empty case from the chamber, and took the gun apart to make sure there was nothing left in the barrel.

[Fishman]

I had some damp cases make it into my reloading process a couple years ago. Killed the powder and the primer. They were range pickups my wife thoughtfully picked up for me and as I was loading that caliber, I just dropped them in the pile to load. Dumb mistake on my part. Lots of ways to mess up.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Common problem when they reach that age.. Try giving it some prune juice and they won't get stuck like that.

Remember the constipated mathmatician? He worked it out with a pencil!Robert

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'm no expert but I wouldn't expect a squib to cycle the action unless it was a blowback (in which case it would cycle it more aggressively). With a recoil pistol, I've had a round with very little (none at all?) powder that caused the projectile to put a hole in the paper target but didn't move the slide at all. In a recoil-operated pistol, if the projectile doesn't even leave the gun, I can't imagine there's any universe in which that's enough recoil to cycle a new round.

FYI, in addition to seeing the hole appear on paper (I wasn't the shooter), I carefully removed the magazine and empty case from the chamber, and took the gun apart to make sure there was nothing left in the barrel.


The Savage pocket pistols were delayed blowback operation, but I think not as delayed as their .45ACP which was considered for the US military contract. The latter had a great deal going for it, but recoiled considerably more violently than the Colt 1911, but mightn't have been inclined to bite the web of the thumb as many find with the original Colt grip safety.