Split nosed boolits

[krag35]

Any experience?
From what I have seen heavy 30 cal. out of the 300 BLK tend to just bore through tissue. I'm thinking a split nosed boolit, cast hard would stand a chance of fracturing and tumbling. I am worried about them making it up the M-4 feed ramps intact.
TIA
Krag35

[Artful]

Never tried it in an auto loader but I used some thin aluminum foil and trapped between the mold halves to split the boolit's like 40 years ago. And they did fracture upon impact.

[Artful]

Son of a Gun, google found something
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/ask-veral-smith-of-lbt-qa/aluminum-foil-expanding-bullets/

[catskinner]

I have used aluminum foil in the RCBS 30-159-CM cowboy bullet. Foil was 1/4 inch wide and placed in the mold about 1/8 inch back from the meplat. Shot them at about 1300 fps. Used quart oil jugs filled with water to check expansion/fracturing. I usually found the pieces of the split nose in the third jug and the rest of the base in the eighth or ninth jug. These oil jugs are about 2 inches thick. Alloy was scrap of unknown composition and tested 11 bhn on my LBT tester.

[Hickok]

This is what would happen if I tried that technique!!!!

157118

[Hickok]

Krag, have tried making a pure lead soft nose on your boolits? With a nice spritzer nose like the Lee 312-160-2R or one of the Lyman heavy 30 caliber boolets it may feed alright in the AR.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have used aluminum foil in the RCBS 30-159-CM cowboy bullet. Foil was 1/4 inch wide and placed in the mold about 1/8 inch back from the meplat. Shot them at about 1300 fps. Used quart oil jugs filled with water to check expansion/fracturing. I usually found the pieces of the split nose in the third jug and the rest of the base in the eighth or ninth jug. These oil jugs are about 2 inches thick. Alloy was scrap of unknown composition and tested 11 bhn on my LBT tester.

That is an old trick which used to be done with cigarette papers, but the foil is less likely to harbor humidity - not enough to be dangerous but perhaps enough to produce a bubble. I think leaving the nose joined up as you describe is the best way. Done in moderation a soft bullet should expand, but a hard one is likely to break in three. For many uses that may be perfectly OK.

[Elkins45]

I tried casting a heavy blackout bullet in pure lead to promote expansion. Accuracy was so bad that expansion probably was irrelevant: subsonic bullets were grouping 10-12" at 100 yards. The split nose technique might be the way to go.

[Hickok]

Elkins did you try PCing the boolit? Maybe at subsonic velocity the PC coating MAY be just hard enough to make the boolits more accurate.

[Digital Dan]

A stray thought, FWIW. Typical BO twist is 8". Fella wants to drive soft alloys it will be at low velocity/pressure if any success is desired. Harder might be better at the higher end of the subsonic range.

Fella wanting to kill something with subsonic lead needs to focus on placement rather than terminal performance. Poke a hole in the heart and it will die after a brief flight. Cervical vertebrae or brain shots are pretty much lights out. Otherwise you need to be very good at tracking.

Bunch of dead hogs taught me this. A friend of mine is hard of head, but he is an excellent tracker as of this writing.

[Hickok]

The two alloy soft point boolit is easy to make. I was using a separate dipper made from a 9mm case to pour the pure lead nose. But I got some .22 cal air gun lead pellets and drop several of them into the mold, let them melt by dipping the corner of the mold in the melt, cool for a few seconds and then pour in the COWW, dip the corner of the mold again until the sprue shows melting and then let it cool, and drop the boolit.

I am using a Lee mold for this application, so IF it would warp a mold, ( don't know if it could) I am only out $20. I really don't try it with my expensive molds.

[Artful]

for inducing tumbling in 300 blackout try shaving the tip - the Asymmetric nose doesn't affect accuracy that much but upon entry into dense medium (meat) it promotes tumbling.
Look up Löffelspitz (spoon-nose) projectile.

Specifically I'm looking at an Article by Wayne Blackwell which he entitled
"How Defects in Cast Bullets Affect Accuracy"

- he has several tests with one to a 30 caliber Lachmiller 311-175 FN with specifically created defects and measures the resulting 6 shot groups (in inches)

Notched base______3.40

Notched nose______1.65

Cold cast wrinkled___2.94

Drilled Base________7.70

Drilled side of nose__3.20

Mold off Spout Pour__2.53

No Measurable defect 1.05

Notice material taken as a notch in the point cause less dispersion in his test.

another link
http://vidoz.com.ua/video/PMQByABGCWp.html

[krag35]

Thanks to all for the information. I made up 5 dummy loads today with Remington Brass and solid cast 311284 to function test. they feed from mag to chamber and eject properly. The feed ramps do chew the nose up a bit during their trip. I tend to get ahead of myself sometimes, and this is one of them. I need to get it to feed, fire, and eject solid cast boolits at the target velocity first, then I can work on the rest.

Art; That spoon nosed idea sounds interesting, and maybe the sharp feed ramp edges will automatically do it for me.

Hickok; I have cast soft nosed bullets via the Bruce B method. I had not considered it in this case because of the nasty transition form mag to chamber, I'll have to try a few.

Dan; Placement is everything, I could not agree more, but I want to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible. I have always shot tight behind the shoulder on animals when possible. My trip to Africa where they want you to shoot through the shoulder, kind of opened my eyes to that way of thinking. Bullet or bone fragments going through the lungs have the same effect, and you take their running gear out as well.

catskinner; That is precisely the effect I am looking for. Should take out the lungs, and leave a blood trail on both sides.

It looks like only the top lube groove will be covered by the case neck. Given the low velocities I am looking for Perhaps tumble lube which dries hard and would not contaminate the powder charge might be the ticket.

I'm going to load up this first batch with out gas checks since they will be hanging out in the body of the case and not contained in the neck. I have not had any luck running a GC design without a gas check, but I'm hoping.

[GabbyM]

I'm going to load up this first batch with out gas checks since they will be hanging out in the body of the case and not contained in the neck. I have not had any luck running a GC design without a gas check, but I'm hoping.

Krag 35:
If you were to loose a gas check inside the case you'd be the first person I'd ever heard of to do that.
Hornady or Gator checks not the old slip on which I know nothing about anyway. Just try using a vise over the bullet nose then a pair of plyers to pull off a gas check. You will see very soon what a farce the idea of recoil or whatever popping a gas check off is. Then search the internet for a solid story of anyone who has some issue whatsoever with a gas check coming off in the case. If you find one I and many others would like to take a look at it.

I can hold to the theory of bullet base down in the case lowering your pressure limit to accuracy. But in practice. My limited personal experience has not shown that to be overwhelming. More like there are so many variables I don't know what to blame it on. Reality is there are way to many people shooting Lyman 311041 thirty-thirty boolits of 177 grain in a 308 Win with the check down in the case to discount the practice. Must be millions a year with just that single bullet case combination. Just among the members on this site. This is because the 308 has a pittance for a neck. I have a 180 grain bullet that fits a 308 Win neck. Fits a BO neck to with just the check below. But it's never been my most accurate bullet. It's new and I'm still working on it. Sure looks pretty though. So anyways, my suggestion, just stick on a check and shoot. If you blow up your gun with a dropped check you will be world famous and get a add camping contract from Jey Bullets bullets. They may even name a new running shoe after you.

I hope your skin is thick tonight. Last thing I'd want to do is offend you. but what you hold as fact is common and untrue. You probably heard it here in this forum. I'm not from Missouri but only about an hours drive away. So show me.

[44man]

Bone chips accelerated to velocity is too funny and so are pieces of broken boolits. Best to keep a boolit together and on a straight path for complete penetration. Expand it as needed but don't break it.157215 Massive damage to bone at entry and I assure you that no bone was past the surface. Not a single piece was driven into the deer. It just busted right there.
This was just a cast soft nose, complete penetration so I suggest it is best.
It took time to clean this shoulder and the big bones were torn from meat and just fell out. But no indication bone was driven anywhere.

[44man]

Krag 35:
If you were to loose a gas check inside the case you'd be the first person I'd ever heard of to do that.
Hornady or Gator checks not the old slip on which I know nothing about anyway. Just try using a vise over the bullet nose then a pair of plyers to pull off a gas check. You will see very soon what a farce the idea of recoil or whatever popping a gas check off is. Then search the internet for a solid story of anyone who has some issue whatsoever with a gas check coming off in the case. If you find one I and many others would like to take a look at it.

I can hold to the theory of bullet base down in the case lowering your pressure limit to accuracy. But in practice. My limited personal experience has not shown that to be overwhelming. More like there are so many variables I don't know what to blame it on. Reality is there are way to many people shooting Lyman 311041 thirty-thirty boolits of 177 grain in a 308 Win with the check down in the case to discount the practice. Must be millions a year with just that single bullet case combination. Just among the members on this site. This is because the 308 has a pittance for a neck. I have a 180 grain bullet that fits a 308 Win neck. Fits a BO neck to with just the check below. But it's never been my most accurate bullet. It's new and I'm still working on it. Sure looks pretty though. So anyways, my suggestion, just stick on a check and shoot. If you blow up your gun with a dropped check you will be world famous and get a add camping contract from Jey Bullets bullets. They may even name a new running shoe after you.

I hope your skin is thick tonight. Last thing I'd want to do is offend you. but what you hold as fact is common and untrue. You probably heard it here in this forum. I'm not from Missouri but only about an hours drive away. So show me.
My experience also. Many of my rifle boolits have the check below the neck. A proper seated check will not fall off nor will seated deep affect accuracy.