45 Colt Fire Forming

[gunoholic]

I have a 45 colt rifle with a large chamber, not sure why maybe the previous owner got carried away with a hone? What the best way to fire form new brass for this, do I just load as normal with a stout load of fast powder. Or can it be done the same as I do 7-30waters with corn or oatmeal filler over a 5ish grains of fast power.
Thanks

[EDG]

It is a straight walled case. You can only get what the dies produce.

Is this a rifle or a handgun? Knowing NZ you can't own a pistol?

If it is a rifle the chamber is probably on the large size to enable it to feed easily since the .45 Colt is not really a rifle round.
You might consider sizing the cases with a steel die that has been polished out large enough that it will just barely size the case mouth back enough to grip the bullets.

There is no real benefit to fire forming unless you have a neck sizing die.
When you size a fired case it will be sized back to the die dimensions all the way to the base.
If you neck size only you may have feeding problems if this is a rifle such as one of the 73 Win clones.

[GRUMPA]

EDG is correct on all counts.

Something like that would be like a waste of time....

[gunoholic]

It is a straight walled case. You can only get what the dies produce.

Is this a rifle or a handgun? Knowing NZ you can't own a pistol?

If it is a rifle the chamber is probably on the large size to enable it to feed easily since the .45 Colt is not really a rifle round.
You might consider sizing the cases with a steel die that has been polished out large enough that it will just barely size the case mouth back enough to grip the bullets.

There is no real benefit to fire forming unless you have a neck sizing die.
When you size a fired case it will be sized back to the die dimensions all the way to the base.
If you neck size only you may have feeding problems if this is a rifle such as one of the 73 Win clones.

Hi, it's a taurus thunderbolt, i got for CAS as a third (back up) rifle. it runs really well. You need an endorsement on your licence for pistols in NZ.
my thought was to fire form and then neck size only enough to hold the boolit. I'm getting low velocity and lots of case blow by.

[dagger dog]

My Rossi 92 45 Colt has a "generous" chamber and I'm going to try partial sizing the case mouth by setting the sizing die to only resize the first 1/4 " of the fired case.

A lot of older dies have the larger 0.454" pre-war diameter sizer, where as the newer have the 0.452" die.
I have purchased Winchester brass new in the bag and a 0.452" boolit will drop to the bottom of the case which makes it mandatory to size your new brass if you're shooting a post war gun. A good dose of TrailBoss and an annealed case will stop a lot of the sooting.

Hope this helps.

[geargnasher]

I have a Thunderbolt and it is virtually unshootable due to horribly eccentric chamber and bolt face that is not perfectly perpendicular to the bore line. Cases are bulged off-center and the face of the case head actually significantly bent out of whack after firing. Simply "neck sizing" the brass in a standard die won't fix the problem like it does in chambers that are simply oversized. Hopefully yours is not that bad.

For my other .45 Colts I "fireform" with a little band of Scotch tape wrapped around just in front of the rim to center the round, then use a steel .45 Colt die to just barely size the "neck" portion of the case enough to give me the desired bullet tension. This of course means I have to segregate brass between my revolvers and rifles.

For the Taurus, when I DO shoot it, it gets especially mild loads and old, worn brass which I toss after shooting.

Gear

[runfiverun]

for my Taurus.
it got sent down the road in less than a month.
Winchester brass is like 35.00 a hundred.
I'm not wearing it out in an out of spec chrome light reflector that I couldn't see the sights on anyway.

<<<<<<< permanently out of Taurus anything.

[vzerone]

for my Taurus.
it got sent down the road in less than a month.
Winchester brass is like 35.00 a hundred.
I'm not wearing it out in an out of spec chrome light reflector that I couldn't see the sights on anyway.

<<<<<<< permanently out of Taurus anything.

That's funny runfiverun. I never fancied those "shiney" guns. We always called them New Orleans *****'s gun. I got rid of all my Taurus's too.

[EDG]

Ok cool. The first rifle I ever shot was a pump/slide action Remington.

If you are shooting black powder you might anneal the brass about .500" down from the mouth. The softer brass will expand easier and help cure some of the blow by. If you can get a little more pressure out of a different black powder the increased pressure will help seal the case.

You can do that will smokeless too. If that rifle has a strong lock up you can increase the pressure and reduce blow by.

You can fire form with normal loads but you will have to modify a steel die into a neck sizer or use a rifle die

A .284 Win, 7.5 Schmidt Rubin or simlar FL rifle die might size the neck enough and leave the base alone. The base of these dies are about .500 and tapers to a smaller shoulder.

Can you measure the actual size of the chamber or a fired case that is a tight fit after being fired?

You can take a fired case and expand it a little then force the mouth into the chamber. Remove the case after the chamber squeezes it down and measure your case mouth. Then you can check various rifle dies or use the data to polish your FL die out in the base. Any one with a lathe can do this easily. Just have him stay away from the top 1/2" so your cases will still grip the bullet.


Hi, it's a taurus thunderbolt, i got for CAS as a third (back up) rifle. it runs really well. You need an endorsement on your licence for pistols in NZ.
my thought was to fire form and then neck size only enough to hold the boolit. I'm getting low velocity and lots of case blow by.

[gunoholic]

thanks guys, I'll try some heavier loads, I'll have to check my load book but I think the last load i tried was 5 or5.3gn of as30 (clays) for 200gn boolit, it didn't make the 150 power factor needed.
I can make a custom neck sizing die if needed.

[leadman]

I had an older Ruger in 45 Colt that had very generous chambers, but at least they were round. I tried neck sizing but the chambers were not all the same size. I bought some 454 Casull brass and trimmed it back for the 45 Colt. Full loads of W296 with the Lee 300gr boolit barely expanded these but accuracy did improve. Brass was much easier to resize also.

[winn442]

I ended up with a Thunderbolt during some horse-trading...... first time I shot it it locked up and I had to take it apart (not easy)...ended up taking it apart several times to slick up a lot of parts before it was semi-reliable...used it in some CAS matches......it's still tempermental...some days it will run slick as snot and some days all it will do is jam......chamber is VERY generous....with cowboy loads you get a lot of blowby in the face, warmer loads seem to seal it up.

If you Google "tomato stake" you'll probably see a picture of one.

[Hickok]

Had a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt with a large chamber that bulged cases badly. Sent it back to Marlin, but it came back uncorrected. The cases looked lopsided they bulged so much.

[w30wcf]

I have a 45 colt rifle with a large chamber, not sure why maybe the previous owner got carried away with a hone? What the best way to fire form new brass for this, do I just load as normal with a stout load of fast powder. Or can it be done the same as I do 7-30waters with corn or oatmeal filler over a 5ish grains of fast power.
Thanks

I have fire formed mine using current .45 Colt loaded to maximum SAAMI specifications (13,000 CUP). I don't think it can be done with fast powder and cornmeal since it is not a bottleneck case and minimum SAMMI loads don't expand the case very much at all.

I neck size to a distance of about 1/16" below where the base of the bullet will sit using a Lyman Carbide die backed out with the decapping pin turned all the way in.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/45%20Colt%20neck%20sized.jpg

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Had a Marlin 1894 Cowboy in 45 Colt with a large chamber that bulged cases badly. Sent it back to Marlin, but it came back uncorrected. The cases looked lopsided they bulged so much.

If you would do as geargnasher suggested.......wrapping a thin strip of tape just forward of the rim..... that will help center the cartridge in the chamber so that the expansion will be fairly even all the way around. That is something I have done and it works like a charm.

w30wcf

[John Boy]

Put a 454 bullet in the 45LC case with 35gr of FFFg powder and a hard crimp. The cases will expand to the ID of the chamber. If the chamber is too large, the brass will have a substantial amount of foul from the mouth down due to gas leakage.
Then the option is to put a sleeve in the chamber - drill it and ream it out again

[gunoholic]

I neck size to a distance of about 1/16" below where the base of the bullet will sit using a Lyman Carbide die backed out with the decapping pin turned all the way in.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/45%20Colt%20neck%20sized.jpg

w30wcf

That's what i had in mind, a sort of 45/40 case.

[gunoholic]

Put a 454 bullet in the 45LC case with 35gr of FFFg powder and a hard crimp. The cases will expand to the ID of the chamber. If the chamber is too large, the brass will have a substantial amount of foul from the mouth down due to gas leakage.
Then the option is to put a sleeve in the chamber - drill it and ream it out again

I stumbled on this the other day http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/colt-lightning-taurus-rebarrel-from-45lc-to-38wcf.html it got me to thinking maybe I could sleeve the chamber.
but it would better to set the barrel back and re-chamber it.
Its on the back burner at the moment as the new 300 blk upper is taking up to much of my time.

[leadman]

If you can scrounge a few 454 Casull cases from a member here I think this may help you in your situation. Made a big difference in the Ruger Blackhawk for me.

[funnyjim014]

My Taurus thunderturd has sat in the safe for the past 9yrs. Same thing alot of blowby and nasty stuff shot in the face. Magtech factory cowboy ammo was ok but very light. My buddy made some hot loads with 2400 and it was not good. Cool idea ,poor product

[Ola]

Not trying to hijack, but..

Have guys fire formed .44 Mag cases to .45 Colt?
I have never done it myself but I know some people who do. Those cases look weird but they seem to work. I have always wondered WHY? What is the idea in that?

[EDK]

Here in Missourri, 44 mag cases are easy to find...at varying prices for new or once fired. 45 Colt isn't very easy to find..$25 a hundred for new STARLINE. Factory 45 Colt ammo is hard to find also.
Rim outside diameter is pretty close. Obviously 45 body is larger. Improvise to keep shooting.

[Ola]

EDK: Of course. That is the obvious answer. For some reason I thought it had something to do with extra-heavy .45 Colt loads..

[SSGOldfart]

for my Taurus.
it got sent down the road in less than a month.
Winchester brass is like 35.00 a hundred.
I'm not wearing it out in an out of spec chrome light reflector that I couldn't see the sights on anyway.

<<<<<<< permanently out of Taurus anything.
I must have bought your piece of junk,I shot two days with it and down the road it went

[gunoholic]

I had a quick play the other day, the chamber is not as bad as I first thought.
I ran some of my loads over the chrony, almost 700fps with a 200gn boolit, powder in the face.[emoji35]
Then I tried some that I'd stuffed the boolits right down near flush with the top of the case to get the pressure up.
1000fps, no blow by, clean cases.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/26/5ac32f14ca47325182058ef131d7293c.jpg
I did the rest I had loaded and added some tape around the bottom to hopefully centre them.

[DougGuy]

200gr boolits are really light for caliber. From the comments if it was mine I think I would send it down the road and look to another rifle that wasn't so out of spec and problematic. Seems like a waste of perfectly good brain cells to have to deal with a crappily made rifle.