Anyone tried Aluminium foil instead of paper

[windrider919]

I have had very good luck PPing with 100% cotten paper in my .458 WM using Buffalo Arms swaged straight bullets. I mix 1 cup of water with 1 oz. of Rooster bullet lube to wet my patches. Some have said lube should NOT saturate the patch but this is what gave me that extra bit of accuracy from 3" down to 1.5".

But reading some of the previous posts it occured to me that I have never heard anyone mention using Al foil. Anyone?

[leftiye]

Seems to me that it'd be helpful if the paper had some lube in it (I don't know though for sure). But so long as the patch could stay on during chambering/ firingand still release from the boolit after leaving the muzzle there should only be benefits from it. In another thread here on paper patching, 45 2.1 mentioned aluminum foil in passing. Maybe he'll comment further.

[windrider919]

Yah, the lubed patches do not stay on the bullet. I have never recovered large pieces like some guys do, all I ever see is little specs of paper in the muzzle blast. And bullets fired into my trap from ten feet do not have a patch.

[357maximum]

I would be a little concerned about getting aluminum in my reclaimed range scrap.



*DISCLAIMER*
The above is based on heresay and I have no absolute scientific fact on the subject matter, just stating my concern and opinion.

[leftiye]

So would anyone care to outline how aluminum foil would be applied? Would you just wrap the boolit in it and twist the base? Do you think that the fast heat conductivity of aluminum would cause aluminum patches to be poorer patches? It does have the advantages of being thinner, and I kinda see it being metal as an advantage (maybe not?), but I see the insulating property of paper as a definite advantage. Paper might be kinder to the surface of the bore, even if paper is abrasive. And aluminum fouling in my bore doesn't excite me much!

[Ricochet]

Someone on here (sorry I forgot who) mentioned that it's standard practice with the reenactment crowd to shoot smoothbore muskets with the ball patched in aluminum foil.

Winchester's Silvertip pistol bullets have aluminum jackets, at least in some calibers like .380 and .45 ACP. Apparently some of the higher intensity calibers use a nickel alloy.

[jhalcott]

I used it to make a "split bullet" some years ago. I'd put a piece between the mold halves ,I'd pull it tight as I closed the mold. After pouring and cooling, I'd trim the excess foil. Normal sizing and lubing gave a bullet that APPEARED the same as any other. I'd only do this on 405 grain ,45-70 slugs. The foil would go from the point to the first driving band. When they impacted a deer, they would open like a pair of scissors. Often breaking into 2 or three pieces, each USUALLY exiting the far side of the deer
BUT that isn't what you are asking about is it?

[windrider919]

What I ment was that the foil be used instead of paper patching. Kind of halfway between a metal jacketed bullet and a paper patched bullet. The paper kind of 'glues' itself to stay on, the foil would not but I question if it would evenly strip off after it left the muzzle. Hence asking if anyone had tried it. The main reason is to rech even higher velocities with a soft lead core but not have the cost of a jacketed bullet

[Ricochet]

Jhalcott, that's a terrific idea!

[Old Ironsights]

Oh, wow. "QuickShok" in .45-70...

Man, you have no idea what you have done by mentioning that... :twisted:

[boommer]

great Idea! Worth a shot ,aluminum wont hurt the bore it is softer just smear a little lube on it. I dont see were you could you use as patch on a ball because it would tear when seating, but a paper patch I see no reason not to try. If I was into p/p I would give a shot or two.

[Ricochet]

Somebody mentioned aluminum fouling. If you did get that, it's an easy metal to get rid of. Using suitable precautions against getting it in your eyes or on your skin, patch the bore out with Liquid Plumber or Drano. Lye will quickly dissolve aluminum and will not harm bluing. Got to keep it away from aluminum gun parts, obviously!

[Molly]

... it occured to me that I have never heard anyone mention using Al foil. Anyone?

Yeah, I played with it for a little while back 20 or 30 years ago, but got distracted and never finished testing. One thing I do remember liking about it was that you don't need to cut parallelograms like you do with paper. Just wrap the bullet to the diameter you want and cut off with a pair of sissors. Twist the tail and use your fingernail to smooth the foil into the grease grooves. Then take a single edge razor blade and use it to roll the bullet across a hard surface. Put the edge of the blade in one of the lube grooves, and it'll give you a beautiful neat leading edge that's tucked down so's it won't tear easily when chambering. But be prepared: The foil is DARN thin, and it takes a LOT of wraps to make much difference in diameter. I was using the standard 180g 0.300" dia PP bullet. Might get away with a lot less foil if you use a normal Ideal design. Size, lube, load & shoot. Worked OK, but don't recall any remarkable results with target loads. Didn't get around to hotter loads. Enjoy, and post your results, OK?

BTW, just to get you salivating, are you aware that you can buy thin, dead soft COPPER foil, with and without adhesive backing? You might want to try patching with one of them. Oh, and BTW, some years back, the NRA published a little article on putting gas checks on plain based bullets. Seems all you have to do is punch out a little disk of soft copper and place it over the sizing die before you size the bullet. Never tried it, but the NRA reported that it worked well. And I just checked: Google lists a LOT of copper foil sources ...

Molly

[leftiye]

Thanks Molly, that was what we've all been waiting for - someone who has done it.

Something that has come up while this post has been running - Frictional heat (it didn't exist until now - LOL). I really like the idea of using foils, but paper may still be better because it insulates the boolit from the heat due to friction generated while transversing the bore? In effect a harder boolit.

[runfiverun]

now if we only lived in europe or asia we could get a whole bunch of dollar bills for like what a nickel? these would be great p/p's.

[carpetman]

Used aluminum foil instead of papers,but couldn't keep them lit.

[jhalcott]

Molly , IF one used a SOFTER ALLOY ,would the bullets be enough SMALLER to only need a wrap or 2 of the foil? I seem to remember getting a couple thou smaller bullets when casting 1/10 alloy then when using straight WW! Same mold ,different alloy and heat.

[Molly]

Molly , IF one used a SOFTER ALLOY ,would the bullets be enough SMALLER to only need a wrap or 2 of the foil? I seem to remember getting a couple thou smaller bullets when casting 1/10 alloy then when using straight WW! Same mold ,different alloy and heat.

Hi Jhalcott,

I dunno. I guess a lot would depend on how much softer, and how much smaller you want. Yes, you can achieve some very small variations in diameter by changing alloys, but - at least in my experience - not enough to bother with. You can get a smaller bullet very easily by buying another sizing die. If you can't buy a die the exact diameter you want, buy a smaller one and drill / lap / polish it out as desired.

One note: If you go this route, check the sized bullet diameter with the alloy you want to use! You can also get larger or smaller diameters from the same sizing die, depending on the hardness of the alloy.

As for me, my general rule is to make the bullet as big as I can get in the chamber. Period. Hard, soft or in between. Too big? I've sized 'normal' cast bullets from 0.460 to 0.445 and gotten excellent results as long as the grease grooves are filled so the bullet won't collapse. And everyone knows to size PP as needed.

If I were going back to Alum wrapped bullets today, I'd start out with a conventional cast bullet for the caliber, like 311291. I'd wrap it about 5 times with the foil I happen to have on hand, following the techniques I described above. Then I'd size it and fill the grooves with lube. Start with a light load and see how high I could take it. (This will vary with the throating.) Then I'd try 8 or 10 wraps and see what I got.

Fellows, this is mostly my 'best recollection' information based on fading memories that are decades old. Don't take it as anything else. The most prominent recollection was the ability to twist the tail of the wrap without tearing it, and not needing to cut the wrap exactly or wet it before putting it on. Trimming the applied wrap with a razor blade was a nice surprise, and I always intended to try it with paper, but never got around to it.

HTH
Molly

[windrider919]

Well, I shot a lot of Silvertips in my 1911 and got good accuracy and expansion. I did some research and found out that the reason they were never put on the market for reloaders was that there is a special lube on the aluminium jacket otherwise it 'leads' badly. It was felt that reloaders would not be able to cope with bullets with lube on the outside. The idiot at Winchester that made this decision obviously never shot any cast bullets. So if one used foil it might 'lead' the barrel.

The copper foil idea is interesting. It realy is not that expensive, comparativly.

Another idea I am trying is that I have one of those home electroplate kits. Wonder just how thin a coat of copper plate will work on a cast bullet to stop leading?

[runfiverun]

iirc the commercial are about .002 or there abouts some of them size plate and size again.

[techlava]

Anyone tried copper foil? It is expensive but you need very small amount. It may require soldering to stay on.

[techlava]

How about thinking the metal patch as an over sized gas check. Does it disintegrate in flight or stay with the bullet all the way.

[softpoint]

I size my 45/70 bullets in a 457 die, use 2 wraps of tracing paper, and size again in a push through at .460, could I size at .458 or .459,patch with aluminum foil and size again in the.460? I only patch to the front driving band anyway, as most of my loads are for Marlin lever guns:castmine:

[cajun shooter]

Would not the copper foil just give you the same as the copper coated bullets? Or the same as the encapsulated lead bullet? I know the nose would not be covered but are you not real close to shooting the j-bullets?

[dpaqu]

somebody has to try this

[Digital Dan]

No, please don't! We need to save the tin foil for when it's time to make hats.

[masscaster]

Copper foil isn't suitable for shooting applications, same with aluminium foil.
All it will do is gall the rifleing. Have fun cleaning up the mess.