HEAVY 44mag twist rate

[Dogmann]

If I'm looking to shoot heavy 300grain and above bullet weights in a 44mag rifle what would the best twist rate be?

1-20
1-26
1-???

[glockky]

1-20" twist should work great with 300gr bullets

[Dogmann]

I'm going with a custom single shot. Probably a ruger no.1.

[runfiverun]

18 would my preference for the heavy stuff
300-315 stabilizes okay if you push it a bit.
when you get to 350grs you start to lose a whole lot of case capacity.

[Dogmann]

Really looking at the garrett hammerheads. The buffalo bore and the CorBons

[c1skout]

My 1:38 wouldn't stabilize the 310 Lee until I got the speed over 1200fps.

[Ramjet-SS]

1:20 is what I would go with.

[Screwbolts]

"Really looking at the garrett hammerheads. The buffalo bore and the CorBons"

I believe the three listed ammo sources all use the WFN profile. A very good choice IMHO.

Ken

[MBTcustom]

R5R nailed it. 1-18 for heavies. 1-20 for normal 250 grain and less.
c1skout. Shoot at 75 yards and record your MOA for ten shots, then repeat at 150 yards. If it's not the same, the bullets are not stabilized. 1-38 is too slow for anything but maybe a very short collar button mold, and then the bullet is so badly shaped, it's not going to fly worth a darn anyway.
The 1-38 twist 44 barrel is the greatest blunder of the past century, and they are still doing it.

Consider, that the accepted twist rate for 357 is 1-18. The accepted twist rate for 45/70 is 1-20. Then here they come with the 44 magnum and sometimes the 45 colt, twisting them at 1-38?????
A true stroke of unbridled genius right there.
The targets will reflect the makers blunder, and have been for the past 75 years or so.
[smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:


However, if you call up shilen right now and tell them you want to order a 44 caliber barrel, theyll ask if you want that 1-16 or 1-20? No option for 1-38.
Call up Krieger and you have the option for 1-20 only. No option for 1-38.

[runfiverun]

they mistook the 44-40 as the only option in 44 barrels.
Marlin does the same thing.
I can shoot 240gr bullets in my 44-40 chambered Rossi because they use the same twist as in their 44 mag.

twist matters.
unfortunately a slow twist usually means a huuuge compromise in bullet weight or load choices.

[Aunegl]

1:20 twist in a TC 44 magnum shoots 320 grain bullets pretty well out to 200 meters.

[Dogmann]

Good enough

[MarkP]

My 788 with a 1:38" stabilizes 310 gr WFN out to 100 yds with a 1,600 fps MV. I have an older Rossi with what I think is 1:30" 310's stable at 100 yds.

[BAGTIC]

In single shots one does not lose as much case capacity because there is not any arbitrary LOA imposed by magazine lengths. My Browning M-78 30-06 rebored to .444 Marlin has a !:16 in case I decided to experiment with super heavy or long ogive spritzers. Better more than necessary than too little.

[Dogmann]

Does anyone know the twist rates in marlin 1894 cowboys?

[44man]

Does anyone know the twist rates in marlin 1894 cowboys?
1 in 38". 1 in 20 is best until a barrel gets short then 1 in 16".
1 in 38" needs a velocity over the pressure a marlin can take. You can't get 1600 fps.
I shoot a 330 gr boolit from a 10-1/2" SBH and it did this at 200 yards.180755
Show a Marlin 1 in 38" that can even do this at 50 yards and I will make steaks.

[Dogmann]

So I really really was looking at a 24inch Marlin 1894CB.

But shooting anything over 300gr would be a failure then!... right?

[5Shot]

I'm going with a custom single shot. Probably a ruger no.1.

I heard Ruger has one coming out any day know as a Distributor Special.

[44man]

So I really really was looking at a 24inch Marlin 1894CB.

But shooting anything over 300gr would be a failure then!... right?
Maybe a RB would work.
Even a 45-70 is wrong in most guns. 1 in 20" for hunting and 1 in 18" for heavy BPCR boolits. None fast enough. My BFR in 45-70 is 1 in 14". Yes a Marlin in 45-70 can shoot. But the .44 is based on Greenhill. In around 63 years I have never seen a twist formula that works.
The .444 was 1 in 38" at the start. Complaints made them go 1 in 20" But the .44 was not changed.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Shilen and Krieger are rarely called upon to make barrels for revolvers. The 38in. twist, as applied to rifles, was a survival from the days when it was a revolver cartridge, fired at amazing pressures for revolvers, when they felt they couldn't neglect anything that would hold down the pressure, and nobody saw a need for bullets over 240gr. or so. Increase the power of the .44 Magnum? What a notion.

That is what carried over to the orginal .444 Marlin, and very likely, though I don't know, the Ruger .44 Magnum carbine. It might be that 38in. failed with MicroGroove rifling, for it is in deep-cut Ballard (i.e. ordinary) riflign that Marlin have changed to 20in. I don't see that you are likely to go wrong with 20in. for any bullets, even the heavy ones, or even the light ones.

[Dogmann]

What did ruger use in the original 44 mag auto loader Carbine?

[44man]

What did ruger use in the original 44 mag auto loader Carbine?
Don't know but the magazine would not take a heavy boolit. Neither did the 77-44.

[fastdadio]

I have a muzzle loader with a 1/20" twist and it prefers 265-300 grainers. If I stick with that weight range, it is a consistent 2-3" grouper at 100yds given 70-90 grains of black. Did I mention I love that gun? Traditions Buck skinner carbine. I'm takin to the grave.

[longbow]

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with microgroove rifling, just the 1:38" twist.

I had a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 with microgroove rifling and it shot cast boolits just fine. No leading, no problems at all. In fact, I am quite happy with the microgroove rifling if only the twist was faster in .44 mag. I've settled on 270 gr. as the heaviest boolit my gun will shoot with reasonable stability and accuracy.

It would also be nice (in my opinion anyway) if they would use the same groove diameter as handgun but that is a SAAMI spec, not Marlin's. That is as much of a mystery to me as the slow twist. Why would SAAMI do that?

Longbow

[Digital Dan]

1:20 twist in a TC 44 magnum shoots 320 grain bullets pretty well out to 200 meters.

It do indeed, even at subsonic velocity.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Brooks320Huff_zps5ok8ru8x.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Brooks320Huff_zps5ok8ru8x.jpg.html)

[Digital Dan]

Don't know but the magazine would not take a heavy boolit. Neither did the 77-44.

77/44 works fine with 300-320 lead bullets.

[44man]

Been looking and some Rugers were 1 in 20". I shortened the stock on one and had to shoot it. Semi auto and had to load my 320 gr single shot but it shot great. Magazine was not made for REAL boolits and is the stick point.

[35Whelen]

Both NOE and Accurate make 300 and 310 grain moulds that will fit in the magazine of the 77/44 . The NOE mould would require that you trim your brass to the recommended trim length of 1.275 for a total length of 1.610 which is max in that rotary mag. The 300 by Accurate is already at .325 from the crimp groove to the nose, so no trimming needed

Still trying to make up my mind...I'm leaning towards the 300 as it is perfect length, big .340 meplat and should carry a ton of downrange energy, and allow one to eat to the hole

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-300H-D.png

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=37_200&products_id=552&osCsid=m437m686oqle80ui15g8m5ujc2


My new to me Ruger 77/44 should be arriving today.....yipee

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with microgroove rifling, just the 1:38" twist.

I had a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 with microgroove rifling and it shot cast boolits just fine. No leading, no problems at all. In fact, I am quite happy with the microgroove rifling if only the twist was faster in .44 mag. I've settled on 270 gr. as the heaviest boolit my gun will shoot with reasonable stability and accuracy.

It would also be nice (in my opinion anyway) if they would use the same groove diameter as handgun but that is a SAAMI spec, not Marlin's. That is as much of a mystery to me as the slow twist. Why would SAAMI do that?

Longbow

No .45-70 Marlin ever had MicroGroove rifling in its original form. They modified it in 1968, for all existing rifles except the .22 rimfires, and the round-bullet 1895 came after that.

I agree that it is a very good system when it is new, and in rifles such as the .30-30 it lasts well. When the built their Sako-actioned Model 32 in .222, in 1957, it had rifling only .001in. deep. It was a phenomenon, winning the world varmint record, but it turned out to lose accuracy very quickly through erosion. It was replaced by a stainless barrelled version, but even that didn't stay on the market long.