Which die set for 50-70?

[milrifle]

I've been loading some 50-70 cases with some .530 round balls for my wife's original Sharps. The barrel was not lined when it was converted and it has a .520 or so bore and a .528 groove (Going by memory). I've not yet bought any dies and have just been seating the round balls lightly by running them up into my .577 snider seating die. I could probably continue to do what I am doing, but I want to try paper patching. From what I've read, the M die in the Lyman set is a tight fit on a .515 bullet, so I know it will not work on a bullet patched to .520. I also looked at the RCBS Legacy Series, but I haven't seen anything that gave a diameter of an expanded case.

I'm thinking if I have to make a new expander, one for the Lyman will be easier to make than the RCBS. I have a small benchtop lathe and could probably pull that off, but if the RCBS Legacy Series is made especially for cast bullets, maybe it expands larger than the Lyman and could be used as is?

What do you guys think?

[Washington1331]

Interesting question. I think that you're going to have difficulty locating a stock 50/70 die set that is going to allow you to do as you suggest. In reality, you're really loading for a 52/70 "wildcat". You may be able to find a metal fabrication shop that might be able to modify a stock factory die to accomidate the larger diameter bullet, (you'll be needing an expander die and seat/crip die). If you anneal your brass cases a bit, and then fire form the brass to your rifle you might be able to just use a univeral depriming die. This will retain the .52-ish mouth diameter and then finger seat your projectile.

Another option is to use the standard factory dies and the NOE 50-450 hollow base mold. It drops at .515, but if you use a soft alloy (40:1) it might be able to bump up to the diameter of the bore, however, .013 of a bump up may be a bit excessive, especially if you're using light charges of smokeless powder. (What do my fellow members think?)

Hope that was some help.

[Jedman]

I think you had better start by slugging your barrel, and if it is original see how much it varies along the length of the bore.
I agree that buying a standard die set would be a waste of your money as the sizing die will reduce the case mouth to .510 or less and you would need to buy a 3 die set to even " bell " the case mouths so that wouldn't do you much good.
I have 3 rifles in 50-70 and they all have a different groove diameters so I too have made what I needed on a lathe. If your barrel is anything close to as large as you think you would not need to resize your fired brass.
If you are now able to chamber a loaded round with a .530 ball your chamber is defiantly oversize already so no need for dies unless you find your groove diameter to be much smaller then you can make a simple neck size die that will give you enough tension without any crimping.
I hope what I have wrote makes sense to you, If you have a small lathe you should be able to make what you need.

Jedman

[Lead pot]

The Lyman die usually runs tighter. I went through this when I got my .50 Shiloh finding a sizing die that would size the neck down enough to hold a .510 bullet. RCBS and I went back and forth with their sizing die that was made to the old Gov. specks and they finally made a die for the chambers now used and they put a #6 on the sizing die body. I have seen new .50 dies that are now marked #6 for the tighter die.
I would call RCBS and see if they still make the original GOV. dies.
Or you can Call Dave at CH-4-D and have a custom set made from a chamber cast.

[reed1911]

Well, assuming you have a little skill on your small lathe, can you not cut a blank die to properly size your brass? A neck size die could easily be made with a blank and chucking reamer. Blanks are 20.00 over at PTG and a chucking reamer is another 15.00. You can harden it home style or send it off for another 40.00. I actually just use a ring type die on a lot of cases so I have one die and a ton of rings I've made over the years for various projects. Works great for re-forming cases too. It is a little more involved since you have to harden each ring, but the die can be left as is using 316. Dave over at CH4D would be the other option but it will be a little more $ and about 4-6 months on wait time.

[Lead pot]

The last single custom die I had CH4D make for me was $64.

[milrifle]

I'm not going to claim any skill on the lathe. I can usually turn something satisfactorily, but I do not have any boring bars or means of holding them. That is something I will do one day, but not just yet.

I did not anneal the brass before we started shooting it and it seems to be taking a few firings to get it to fire form. However, the 20 rounds we shot a couple of days ago (2 or 3 firings now) measured roughly .520 inside, so they are getting there. I really don't know that I need to resize. At least not yet. I am interested in expanding. Seating with enough crimp to remove the flare would also be nice. I'm not sure how large the stock dies are, but I would hope I could seat and lightly crimp with the seating die. I feel like I could turn an oversized expander for an "M" die. That is assuming the die is large enough on the ID. I turned an "M" type expander to go in a Lee Universal Expander, but the die itself is borderline too small.

I really appreciate everyone's input. Thanks you all.

[GWM]

Another option is to use the standard factory dies and the NOE 50-450 hollow base mold. It drops at .515, but if you use a soft alloy (40:1) it might be able to bump up to the diameter of the bore, however, .013 of a bump up may be a bit excessive, especially if you're using light charges of smokeless powder. (What do my fellow members think?)

A hollow base is nice. But the NOE is out of stock. Accurate Molds could make any diameter needed, also heeled designs if called for, but not hollow base.